Why Regional Games Matter | The Boneyard

Why Regional Games Matter

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When 50,000 show up for the Pinstripe Bowl for PSU and BC, you begin to appreciate why regional rivals matter. Its about the only bowl game I've seen this year with some electricity and fan interest from the stands. Its too bad that CR has ruined this generally. Great game and even better outcome. Cant see BC get beaten enough.
 
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BlueDogs said:
When 50,000 show up for the Pinstripe Bowl for PSU and BC, you begin to appreciate why regional rivals matter. Its about the only bowl game I've seen this year with some electricity and fan interest from the stands. Its too bad that CR has ruined this generally. Great game and even better outcome. Cant see BC get beaten enough.

Although having two regional teams had nothing to do with the attendance. PSU could have sold out that stadium themselves, and they practically did with BC's piss poor showing attendance wise.
 
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Boston College fans had nothing to do with filling Yankee Stadium.
Exactly right. This game had sellout written all over it as soon as Ped.U. was announced as one of the participants. First bowl game after the ban, long history of bowl participation, close proximity to campus, well documented travelling fan base, long history as best college football team in the Northeast.. That they were paired with one of their traditional sacrificial lambs was just an added benefit.
 

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Penn State vs Rutgers or Penn State vs UCONN would have provided at least a little bit of counter noise to the Penn State fans in attendance. If there were more than 5K BC fans in attendance, then they were of the cheese and cracker/ sit on their hands variety.

Which leads me to my next subject matter - how's about Warde and Susan approach the State and see if they will waive that ridiculous "all home games have to be played at the Rent" nonsense rule and call up PSU about a game at Yankee. UCONN would sacrifice a home game but it would be alright if we get majority gate since the game will definitely sell out. PSU gets some money out of it plus they give their NYC area alumni another chance to play at Yankee.
 

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Dooley said:
Penn State vs Rutgers or Penn State vs UCONN would have provided at least a little bit of counter noise to the Penn State fans in attendance. If there were more than 5K BC fans in attendance, then they were of the cheese and cracker/ sit on their hands variety.

Which leads me to my next subject matter - how's about Warde and Susan approach the State and see if they will waive that ridiculous "all home games have to be played at the Rent" nonsense rule and call up PSU about a game at Yankee. UCONN would sacrifice a home game but it would be alright if we get majority gate since the game will definitely sell out. PSU gets some money out of it plus they give their NYC area alumni another chance to play at Yankee.

That is a very small needle to thread. Their schedule is very full, they play RU in NJ every other year and they just did the Yankee thing, which is now a regular B1G bowl. I'm sure Warde and the Yankees would be up for it but getting PSU would have been easier three years ago when they were looking for friends.
 

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That is a very small needle to thread. Their schedule is very full, they play RU in NJ every other year and they just did the Yankee thing, which is now a regular B1G bowl. I'm sure Warde and the Yankees would be up for it but getting PSU would have been easier three years ago when they were looking for friends.

True. Then if PSU can't/won't do it, Warde should go down the B1G AD rolodex until he finds an interested party on the other end. If not B1G, then find another school with a huge following. And if not Yankee, then Fenway. Or Citi.
 
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You all are arguing the CONTRA to one of my basic points ...

Boston College went out of their way to block our advancement. There is NO single thing that would have helped them Nationally and in this market than to have a Large Successful Public playing them as a rival in MBB, WBB, Football, Hockey, Soccer etc etc.

They f---ed up. And I want to see OUR Connecticut sportswriters (and the Boston ones) address this topic. Because this is one of the overriding themes of New England college sports: How Boston College screwed themselves.

(calling Mike (BCGenius) DiMauro)
 
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You all are arguing the CONTRA to one of my basic points ...

Boston College went out of their way to block our advancement. There is NO single thing that would have helped them Nationally and in this market than to have a Large Successful Public playing them as a rival in MBB, WBB, Football, Hockey, Soccer etc etc.

They f---ed up. And I want to see OUR Connecticut sportswriters (and the Boston ones) address this topic. Because this is one of the overriding themes of New England college sports: How Boston College screwed themselves.

(calling Mike (BCGenius) DiMauro)

BANG!!!

Hammer hitting nail right on the duck*ing head!
 
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http://www.boston.com/sports/colleg...matter-here/y9IKsgfT4Pvjl0gifVTgbI/story.html

Unearned Arrogance.

The obvious answer that BC is irrelevant in Boston sports, is the same reason that UCONN has no traditional annual rivals in football. a 5 decade process that started with the Ivy League de-emphasizing scholarship football, and rejecting the corrupt division 1 college football post season, proceeding to the 1970's restructuring of the NCAA into multiple divisions all conceived based on football scholarships and stadium capacity, which then proceeded to the restructure of intercollegiate athletic conferences nationwide around football, and locally in the northeast around football, and started the slow decline of division 1 football independence, which led to the formation of the Big East basketball conference, of which BC was a founder, and also a member that excluded Penn State in the early 1980's, and the notion of a football conference in favor of dying aspects of independence as a division 1 football program, which was finally dead by 1990, when every independent save Notre Dame via NBC television, BYU via the Mormon Church, and the service academies gave up independent football at division 1, and the big east football conference was finally created in 1992, which was poorly managed, and bent over for Notre Dame rear entry, without football in the 1990's, and then started breaking up by 2001, of which Boston College was all a part of, and by 2010, was safely cashing checks from the ACC conference, and still avoiding the basics of drives intercollegiate sports, which is competition with rivals, and advocating to keep UCONN out of a conference, which would have preserved the rivalries that had been built over 2 decades among the original independand football programs that formed the big east basketball conference.

The fallacy, was thinking that the fan bases of Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Boston College could do anything to sustain meaningful intercollegiate athletic competition. They aren't, and won't, and Pitt and Cuse, are going to follow the same path that BC did, when it comes to relevance in their own sports markets.
 
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http://www.boston.com/sports/colleg...matter-here/y9IKsgfT4Pvjl0gifVTgbI/story.html

Unearned Arrogance.

The obvious answer that BC is irrelevant in Boston sports, is the same reason that UCONN has no traditional annual rivals in football. a 5 decade process that started with the Ivy League de-emphasizing scholarship football, and rejecting the corrupt division 1 college football post season, proceeding to the 1970's restructuring of the NCAA into multiple divisions all conceived based on football scholarships and stadium capacity, which then proceeded to the restructure of intercollegiate athletic conferences nationwide around football, and locally in the northeast around football, and started the slow decline of division 1 football independence, which led to the formation of the Big East basketball conference, of which BC was a founder, and also a member that excluded Penn State in the early 1980's, and the notion of a football conference in favor of dying aspects of independence as a division 1 football program, which was finally dead by 1990, when every independent save Notre Dame via NBC television, BYU via the Mormon Church, and the service academies gave up independent football at division 1, and the big east football conference was finally created in 1992, which was poorly managed, and bent over for Notre Dame rear entry, without football in the 1990's, and then started breaking up by 2001, of which Boston College was all a part of, and by 2010, was safely cashing checks from the ACC conference, and still avoiding the basics of drives intercollegiate sports, which is competition with rivals, and advocating to keep UCONN out of a conference, which would have preserved the rivalries that had been built over 2 decades among the original independand football programs that formed the big east basketball conference.

The fallacy, was thinking that the fan bases of Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Boston College could do anything to sustain meaningful intercollegiate athletic competition. They aren't, and won't, and Pitt and Cuse, are going to follow the same path that BC did, when it comes to relevance in their own sports markets.

Those teams are now playing in front of half empty stadiums on a weekly basis. No one in those markets give a hoot about southern football teams. If they want to draw fans, they need teams that the casual fan can recognize in the Northeast. Not Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, etc. You can thank Pitt for destroying any and all hope for an Eastern league due to greed and jealously for leading the anti-PSU charge in the 80s.

Not to mention.. trading their basketball identity and Madison Square Garden for some podunk arena in eastern North Carolina?
 
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Those teams are now playing in front of half empty stadiums on a weekly basis. No one in those markets give a hoot about southern football teams. If they want to draw fans, they need teams that the casual fan can recognize in the Northeast. Not Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, etc. You can thank Pitt for destroying any and all hope for an Eastern league due to greed and jealously for leading the anti-PSU charge in the 80s.

Not to mention.. trading their basketball identity and Madison Square Garden for some podunk arena in eastern North Carolina?

Are you referring to Paterno's proposal for an eastern conf? LOL, Pitt was not the only school that nixed it - everyone else did too because Joe's vision was to keep FB independent but share revenues in all other sports. So the so-called EAC would have folded every bit as much as the BE conf did because the one sport that actually matters to conferences in the first place would have been kept as independent in all but name only. If you think Paterno's vision would have saved eastern football, then you know very little about the history of the eastern indies when it comes to football.
 
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Are you referring to Paterno's proposal for an eastern conf? LOL, Pitt was not the only school that nixed it - everyone else did too because Joe's vision was to keep FB independent but share revenues in all other sports. So the so-called EAC would have folded every bit as much as the BE conf did because the one sport that actually matters to conferences in the first place would have been kept as independent in all but name only. If you think Paterno's vision would have saved eastern football, then you know very little about the history of the eastern indies when it comes to football.

Umm.....no, you're wrong Cochise. Completely backassward wrong.

He said the athletic directors then at Syracuse (Jake Crouthamel), Boston College (Bill Flynn) and Providence (Dave Gavitt) wanted to keep the fledgling Big East intact as a basketball-only conference. Gavitt, who died Friday, also was the Big East commissioner.

"They didn't want a football conference," Paterno said Tuesday. "They didn't want Penn State for football. They didn't want us to pull Boston College, Syracuse and Pitt out of the Big East and into an all-sports conference.

"They made a strong effort to get Penn State to join the Big East, strictly for basketball. That was not the thing I felt was best for Penn State, so we backed away."


http://www2.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=333879
 
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Umm.....no, you're wrong Cochise. Completely backassward wrong.

He said the athletic directors then at Syracuse (Jake Crouthamel), Boston College (Bill Flynn) and Providence (Dave Gavitt) wanted to keep the fledgling Big East intact as a basketball-only conference. Gavitt, who died Friday, also was the Big East commissioner.

"They didn't want a football conference," Paterno said Tuesday. "They didn't want Penn State for football. They didn't want us to pull Boston College, Syracuse and Pitt out of the Big East and into an all-sports conference.

"They made a strong effort to get Penn State to join the Big East, strictly for basketball. That was not the thing I felt was best for Penn State, so we backed away."


http://www2.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=333879

You're talking about the Big East. I'm talking about Paterno's proposed EAC. In Paterno's proposal, he wanted to share the revenue in basketball but keep football revenue separate from that arrangement, i.e. PSU keeps all of its FB revenue while PSU gets to share in everyone else's BB revenue. That's the real reason why the all athletic conference was nixed - at least from a Pitt perspective. Again, if Tranghese plays the 20/20 hindsight game and wonders what if the BE invites PSU to join the 'BB only conference', what do you think would change when the B1G came calling in 1992/1993?
 
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You're talking about the Big East. I'm talking about Paterno's proposed EAC. In Paterno's proposal, he wanted to share the revenue in basketball but keep football revenue separate from that arrangement, i.e. PSU keeps all of its FB revenue while PSU gets to share in everyone else's BB revenue. That's the real reason why the all athletic conference was nixed - at least from a Pitt perspective. Again, if Tranghese plays the 20/20 hindsight game and wonders what if the BE invites PSU to join the 'BB only conference', what do you think would change when the B1G came calling in 1992/1993?

Forgive me if I don't believe you, I'd like to see that in writing from a credible source - like quotes from the actual guys involved. I think you're wrong. Paterno knew that PSU football wasn't going to remain independent, and he was smart enough in the early 1980's to recognize that independent football was no longer going to be viable as the landscape, and specifically the television contract negotiations around regular season games and the changes coming to the post season format changing from an invitation system to a conference affliation based system stemming from the model out west that was big 10/Pac10 rose bowl for decades upon decades.

He tried, indeed, to unite the regional independants into a football conference, and he was instrumental in having the rider attached to the division 1A classification of football to involve stadium seating capacity, for exactly opposite the reasons you state. He didn't want PSU to be sharing game revenue with programs like Colgate, etc. The formation of the Big East conference in 1979, and then decision to include sports beyond just basketball, in I think 1982? Might be wrong about that - was the perfect avenue to create it. It actually went to vote, and by several involved, PSU was expected to be added, and it came as a surprise to the likes of John Toner, that PSU was not added in a 5-3 vote against.

The eastern school AD's, Boston College, in particular -which is why I brought this up - thought they continue with the independent football and didn't want to share money - again completely opposite what you are saying - and they (kind of like UCONN in basketball later - blinded to what was actually happening all around by success and winning) were kind of blinded, because they were riding a wave of success with Doug Flutie at QB, that would produce a Heisman trophy in 1984.

I'll give BC a pass on that, because they were smart enough, to learn from it all, and be actively trying to get out into a different conference ASAP later on.

They were ahead of us on the learning curve, and that's as much credit to BC as I"ll ever give, because the way they went about it - to isolate themselves in New England, in a market that doesn't even care about them, was just dumb.
 
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Uconn's AD Jeff Hathaway did far more damage to the Uconn Football program than anyone alive, imo... and certainly the Uconn AD did far more damage to the Uconn football program than anything the former BC AD did to Uconn's football program..

At the most critical time of league realignment, Uconn's forrmer AD Hathaway went out and hired an over the hill Football Coach that even Syracuse had determined was a Dinosaur that needed to be put down. What the heck was Uconn thinking hiring the fired Syracuse Coach. If he wasn't good enough for the Syracuse football program, why was he considered The Next Big Thing for the Uconn football program ? Everybody outside of the state of Connecticut rolled their eyes when it was learned that this is who Uconn hired to ' take the program to the next level ". Ironically, Pasqualoni did take Uconn to " the next level ". He sank it to the bottom of the AAC. Now its up to Diaco to try and take it out of the basement of the AAC. But thats going to take time,, and patience. Atrributes that seem in short supply among some in the Uconn football fan base from my observations here.
 
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Uconn's AD Jeff Hathaway did far more damage to the Uconn Football program than anyone alive, imo... and certainly the Uconn AD did far more damage to the Uconn football program than anything the former BC AD did to Uconn's football program..

At the most critical time of league realignment, Uconn's forrmer AD Hathaway went out and hired an over the hill Football Coach that even Syracuse had determined was a Dinosaur that needed to be put down. What the heck was Uconn thinking hiring the fired Syracuse Coach. If he wasn't good enough for the Syracuse football program, why was he considered The Next Big Thing for the Uconn football program ? Everybody outside of the state of Connecticut rolled their eyes when it was learned that this is who Uconn hired to ' take the program to the next level ". Ironically, Pasqualoni did take Uconn to " the next level ". He sank it to the bottom of the AAC. Now its up to Diaco to try and take it out of the basement of the AAC. But thats going to take time,, and patience. Atrributes that seem in short supply among some in the Uconn football fan base from my observations here.

You're not wrong here, but don't you think it's a little douchey to come here and rub salt in the wounds with something we already know?
 
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You're not wrong here, but don't you think it's a little douchey to come here and rub salt in the wounds with something we already know?
Who is " we " ? From my readings here on occasion, I come away with the impression that somehow BC up in Massachusetts is mostly responsible for Uconn at the bottom of the AAC in football. If you are telling me now that Hathaway and Uconn itself is mostly responsible for its current state of its football program, then that is probably something that I just needed to read on here, as I had not read it here before. That said, I only come on here occassionally, so its possible that Hathaway and Pasqualoni are known by you all as mostly responsible for the current state of the Uconn football program. Fair enough.
 
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Who is " we " ? From my readings here on occasion, I come away with the impression that somehow BC up in Massachusetts is mostly responsible for Uconn at the bottom of the AAC in football. If you are telling me now that Hathaway and Uconn itself is mostly responsible for its current state of its football program, then that is probably something that I just needed to read on here, as I had not read it here before. That said, I only come on here occassionally, so its possible that Hathaway and Pasqualoni are known by you all as mostly responsible for the current state of the Uconn football program. Fair enough.

Nothing you've written contributes to this conversation in a meaningful way. The issue was brought up (by UCONN fans) that it would be nice to see CT sports writers address the kinds of issues being discussed here, because intercollegiate sports in New England have been handcuffed in growth potential by the actions of multiple university athletic department administration's policies that date back a full 3 decades + now. Poor UCONN decision making, as I've written, is involved in all of this as well, as we UCONN fans are all willing able to acknowledge, and move on and try to learn from. The poor decision making on UCONN's part, goes back to John Toner, who advocated for cost-containment 1-AA football, and wanted UCONN in it. Even so, Toner was in favor of adding PSU to the Big East, and creating a football conference with PSU, Syracuse, BC, PItt as a the backbone. He just didn't want UCONN to do it. Lew Perkins came along, after a short tenure of a nother football oriented AD in the late 80's that differed in Toner's opinions, and then sparked the upgrade, which took a decade to complete, and would not have happened if we were not affiliated with the Big East. Hathaway took over, and counted pennies with one hand with his thumb up his butt from his other hand, and the university administration, bought into the Big EAst basketball leadership and their methods. Mistake #2 by UCONN. Mistake #3, was not hiring Pasqualoni - I still believe this strongly, it was hiring him by a guy with no football knowledge, and not making the hire conditional upon leaving George Deleone coaching tight ends in the NFL. It wasn't Pasqualoni's recruiting or defensive coaching that has us where we are now. It was the offense and offensive line recruiting that the little troll was put in charge of that continues to drag this program down.

All the while, Boston College was shooting itself in the foot, first because an AD was hanging on to dying aspects of indendant football, and then later because a small minded failed football player from CT, that was AD at Villanova, stepped up a grade in football to BC AD, and because of fear of football recruiting competition and being overshadowed in football in New England made every effort for the best part of a decade to isolate Boston College in the New England region - in a market that doesn't even care about them.

But he did get them the big TV paycheck. So there's that.

So, now go back to your Boston College internet fan forum populated by several thousand fans discussing all aspects of BC sports.
 
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Who is " we " ? From my readings here on occasion, I come away with the impression that somehow BC up in Massachusetts is mostly responsible for Uconn at the bottom of the AAC in football. If you are telling me now that Hathaway and Uconn itself is mostly responsible for its current state of its football program, then that is probably something that I just needed to read on here, as I had not read it here before. That said, I only come on here occassionally, so its possible that Hathaway and Pasqualoni are known by you all as mostly responsible for the current state of the Uconn football program. Fair enough.

You're a .

There's a distinction between Hathaway & P running the program into the ground and our conference affiliation. BC, being the wholly Jesuit Christians that they are, worked behind closed doors to keep UConn out of the ACC because New England was "their turf". That strategy has backfired other than lining the coffers. Your former AD has admitted this much, so I'm surprised to see you say otherwise. Well, no I'm not.
 
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You know Jimmy - none of us can know the future, but we can learn from the past. The power of the UCONN brand of athletics (and this all entirely due to the basketball program(s) success sustained over 30+ years now, has been able to raise up entire athletic programs as rivals when given time. In fact, I think there is legitimate argument, that the entire rise of women's basketball as a sport nationally as intercollegiate and professional, is directly related to the success of the UCONN women's basketball program under Geno Auriemma. We've all seen what the power of UCONN basketball is in the NYC demographic. It's been demonstrated over and over. The football program, is in year 14 of existence I believe at division 1A. We've won conference titles and won bowl games, Plural for both, but it happened in relative obscurity that the Big East football conference was, under basketball leadership, while every other division 1A program affiliated with the original big east conference was searching actively for other conferences.

I've written this stuff ad nauseum in the past, but the predictions and report that was helped to be generated by former SEC commissioner Roy Kramer - that led to the UCONN BOT to finally approve upgrade to 1A in football, still holds true. The University of Connecticut, as the only major sports "franchise" - word used loosely, can really be similar to the fan followings and athletic culture (in the good ways) that exist in the major state university athletic programs of the SEC, and other places - like the Big 10.

it would be a hell of a lot easier to develop that with Michigan State, PSU, Michigan, OSU, New Jersey and Maryland on the schedules regularly, than it would with Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, USF, and UCF - but until it actually happens and proves otherwise - I believe 100% that a winning football program at UCONN, competiting regular for top 25 recognition, would generate an massive fan following - regardless of opponent.

We just have yet to experience it - a winning football program, combined with the television exposure and actively involved media/public relations that a football oriented athletic director should manage.

We had winning without exposure and positive promotion, and we've got positive promotion and exposure now, but a losing program.

Got to put the peanut butter together with the jelly.
 
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You know Jimmy - none of us can know the future, but we can learn from the past. The power of the UCONN brand of athletics (and this all entirely due to the basketball program(s) success sustained over 30+ years now, has been able to raise up entire athletic programs as rivals when given time. In fact, I think there is legitimate argument, that the entire rise of women's basketball as a sport nationally as intercollegiate and professional, is directly related to the success of the UCONN women's basketball program under Geno Auriemma. We've all seen what the power of UCONN basketball is in the NYC demographic. It's been demonstrated over and over. The football program, is in year 14 of existence I believe at division 1A. We've won conference titles and won bowl games, Plural for both, but it happened in relative obscurity that the Big East football conference was, under basketball leadership, while every other division 1A program affiliated with the original big east conference was searching actively for other conferences.

I've written this stuff ad nauseum in the past, but the predictions and report that was helped to be generated by former SEC commissioner Roy Kramer - that led to the UCONN BOT to finally approve upgrade to 1A in football, still holds true. The University of Connecticut, as the only major sports "franchise" - word used loosely, can really be similar to the fan followings and athletic culture (in the good ways) that exist in the major state university athletic programs of the SEC, and other places - like the Big 10.

it would be a hell of a lot easier to develop that with Michigan State, PSU, Michigan, OSU, New Jersey and Maryland on the schedules regularly, than it would with Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, USF, and UCF - but until it actually happens and proves otherwise - I believe 100% that a winning football program at UCONN, competiting regular for top 25 recognition, would generate an massive fan following - regardless of opponent.

We just have yet to experience it - a winning football program, combined with the television exposure and actively involved media/public relations that a football oriented athletic director should manage.

We had winning without exposure and positive promotion, and we've got positive promotion and exposure now, but a losing program.

Got to put the peanut butter together with the jelly.

The one nitpick with this post is that our NYC presense in basketball is due to fans traveling in from CT.
 
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