Why Pre-Season awards matter.

[WestCoast]

Wow, amazing. Her legend is growing by the sentence. She has to contend with the fact that opponents are trying to prevent her from rebounding, as opposed to all those other great rebounders who just stealthily rack up the rebounds because their opponents don't bother scouting them or boxing them out.

I recognize the sarcasm and your efforts to diminish what Lobo Tweeted about Pivec. I simply responded to your question about what I meant about "marked."

All scouting reports will identify ways to take away or limit the opposition's top players and what they do best. It is no different with Pivec. She plays through the physicality like most of the top players do.

Not looking to spar with Plebe. Just trying to add some of my observations from this geographic area. Lobo's Tweet was accurate. Plebe's efforts to explain away why the stat may have been misleading were what prompted me to post that Pivec has been rebounding well for years.

 

[CocoHusky]

Wow, amazing. Her legend is growing by the sentence. She has to contend with the fact that opponents are trying to prevent her from rebounding, as opposed to all those other great rebounders who just stealthily rack up the rebounds because their opponents don't bother scouting them or boxing them out.

Just trying to add some of my observations from this geographic area. L

It has long been established that "boxing out" in WCBB is a concept elusive to many west coast teams.

 

[Plebe]

I recognize the sarcasm and your efforts to diminish what Lobo Tweeted about Pivec. I simply responded to your question about what I meant about "marked."

All scouting reports will identify ways to take away or limit the opposition's top players and what they do best. It is no different with Pivec. She plays through the physicality like most of the top players do.

Not looking to spar with Plebe. Just trying to add some of my observations from this geographic area. Lobo's Tweet was accurate. Plebe's efforts to explain away why the stat may have been misleading were what prompted me to post that Pivec has been rebounding well for years.

Ha, I promise I'm not the enemy! I've stanned for the Pac-12 many a time on this board. I lived for more than a decade in Pac-12 country and I've seen Oregon State several times in person -- including a game way back in 2014 where they sprang into my consciousness in a near-miss against Arizona State. I walked away from that game thinking, "This is a team to watch out for." And sure enough they went on an 11-game win streak before losing in the Pac-12 championship game on their way to the first NCAA tournament appearance in the Rueck era.

I'm certain that Pivec will finally get her deserved AA recognition this year.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Megan would not be coming from out of "nowhere" to win the award and neither did Joe Burrows. LSU was ranked 6th in Pre-season and Joe was a returning starter. UCONN was ranked 4th in preseason and Megan was on both the watchlist for Naismith and Cheryl Miller award for best SF.

Plenty of highly ranked teams don't have a player that is a particularly strong contender for the Heisman. Burrows passed for around 2600 yards 16 TDs/5 INTs last season. That absolutely would not have put him on the radar or in consideration before the season started. Let's be honest.

 

[WestCoast]

If she has a big game vs Oregon and outplays Sabrina she might.

It should be a memorable game. Both Walker and Ionescu will know what is potentially at stake with respect to NPOY voters' memories of who outplayed whom and who helped her team the most in that game. Walker has to believe now that she has a shot if she continues to play at a high level and her team wins it all.

PAC-12 fans who have rooted for as well as those who have rooted against Ionescu know that Sabrina remembers losses for a long time and is a poor loser. Ionescu will be highly motivated to try to prove to the audience that she is a worthy repeat NPOY candidate. UConn's onball pressure and help defense on Ionescu will have to limit Ionescu in getting to where she wants to go on the floor. If UConn has a defender who can play Ionescu physically and remain out of of foul trouble, the chances of beating Oregon are enhanced.

Who will primarily defend Ionescu in that game? Dangerfield or Williams?

 

[Figurehead]

It should be a memorable game. Both Walker and Ionescu will know what is potentially at stake with respect to NPOY voters' memories of who outplayed whom and who helped her team the most in that game. Walker has to believe now that she has a shot if she continues to play at a high level and her team wins it all.

PAC-12 fans who have rooted for as well as those who have rooted against Ionescu know that Sabrina remembers losses for a long time and is a poor loser. Ionescu will be highly motivated to try to prove to the audience that she is a worthy repeat NPOY candidate. UConn's onball pressure and help defense on Ionescu will have to limit Ionescu to get to where she wants to go on the floor.

Who will primarily defend Ionescu in that game? Dangerfield or Williams?

Uhh, not just Ionescu.

 

[willtalk]

Pivec gets fouled a lot in addition to the fouls that she draws while attacking the paint. Some of the fouls are called for her being held by her opponents on boxouts. You don't see the hold on boxout foul called that often in women's basketball. It really has to be obvious.

What I meant about being a "marked" rebounder specifically is that her rebounding is a scouting report priority for the opposition. It looks bad for opposing guards to gather offensive rebounds against your squad. As a result, she is often battered and knocked to the ground by opponents who are attempting to keep her off the boards. I think that she may lead the conference in bloody noses as well.

I agree with Plebe on this issue. Pivec is not a good rebounder because she is good at posting up. When you are playing the guard position on both offense and defense you have little opportunity to post and if you do you are out of position. I was very curious as to how she got so many rebounds so I watched her carefully during her Sophmore season. She has a good nose for where the ball is going off of misses along with superior timing. She knows when to peel off her assignment and find the space to be where the missed shot will end up. You can not box that out. She does every now and then end up under the basket on shots, but that is not what separates her from other guards, they also end up there sometimes. With her it's not establishing position, but timing and knowing where the ball is going.

When she is just posting up, she is not that much better than most players her size. She is not particularly long or capable of jumping, so posting up does not really work in her favor. She beats people to the ball in space- that's it.

 

[bballnut90]

I agree with Plebe on this issue. Pivec is not a good rebounder because she is good at posting up. When you are playing the guard position on both offense and defense you have little opportunity to post and if you do you are out of position. I was very curious as to how she got so many rebounds so I watched her carefully during her Sophmore season. She has a good nose for where the ball is going off of misses along with superior timing. She knows when to peel off her assignment and find the space to be where the missed shot will end up. You can not box that out. She does every now and then end up under the basket on shots, but that is not what separates her from other guards, they also end up there sometimes. With her it's not establishing position, but timing and knowing where the ball is going.

When she is just posting up, she is not that much better than most players her size. She is not particularly long or capable of jumping, so posting up does not really work in her favor. She beats people to the ball in space- that's it.

Sounds a lot like Anriel Howard (although Anriel was a great leaper). Just having an excellent read on where the rebound is going to end up and really going after it. I think this is an undervalued skill that can be taught but we dont see too many players regularly exhibiting it at the level of Pivec/Howard.

 

[jonson]

It should be a memorable game. Both Walker and Ionescu will know what is potentially at stake with respect to NPOY voters' memories of who outplayed whom and who helped her team the most in that game. Walker has to believe now that she has a shot if she continues to play at a high level and her team wins it all.

PAC-12 fans who have rooted for as well as those who have rooted against Ionescu know that Sabrina remembers losses for a long time and is a poor loser. Ionescu will be highly motivated to try to prove to the audience that she is a worthy repeat NPOY candidate. UConn's onball pressure and help defense on Ionescu will have to limit Ionescu in getting to where she wants to go on the floor. If UConn has a defender who can play Ionescu physically and remain out of of foul trouble, the chances of beating Oregon are enhanced.

Who will primarily defend Ionescu in that game? Dangerfield or Williams?

I think that the more telling/interesting match-up may end of being Walker and Satou Sabally.

 

[oldude]

It should be a memorable game. Both Walker and Ionescu will know what is potentially at stake with respect to NPOY voters' memories of who outplayed whom and who helped her team the most in that game. Walker has to believe now that she has a shot if she continues to play at a high level and her team wins it all.

PAC-12 fans who have rooted for as well as those who have rooted against Ionescu know that Sabrina remembers losses for a long time and is a poor loser. Ionescu will be highly motivated to try to prove to the audience that she is a worthy repeat NPOY candidate. UConn's onball pressure and help defense on Ionescu will have to limit Ionescu in getting to where she wants to go on the floor. If UConn has a defender who can play Ionescu physically and remain out of of foul trouble, the chances of beating Oregon are enhanced.

Who will primarily defend Ionescu in that game? Dangerfield or Williams?

Crystal will likely defend Ionescu. While she gives away a few inches, Crystal’s quickness allows her to both harass opponents and deny them the ball. In the past, Crystal has taken on the job of attempting to contain players like Durr, Ogunbowle, etc.

 

[HuskyNan]

Silly me, I thought this was a Megan Walker thread but like many on the UConn board, it was an OSU thread in disguise

 

[CocoHusky]

Plenty of highly ranked teams don't have a player that is a particularly strong contender for the Heisman. Burrows passed for around 2600 yards 16 TDs/5 INTs last season. That absolutely would not have put him on the radar or in consideration before the season started. Let's be honest.

As long as we are being “honest”.

“Another step down here, but these QBs have a path to the award after players like Iowa’s Brad Banks (second-place in 2002) and Louisville’s Lamar Jackson (first-place in 2016) had massive leaps on successful teams to get into the Heisman conversations. It’s more unlikely any of these players win the award, but we can’t rule it out.” Joe Burrows LSU

The 117 players who could win the 2019 Heisman

Drawing from past winners and finalists, we came up with every college football player who conceivably has a path to the Heisman this fall.

www.si.com

.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Silly me, I thought this was a Megan Walker thread but like many on the UConn board, it was an OSU thread in disguise

No, it's a Heisman Trophy thread.

 

[nwhoopfan]

As long as we are being “honest”.

“Another step down here, but these QBs have a path to the award after players like Iowa’s Brad Banks (second-place in 2002) and Louisville’s Lamar Jackson (first-place in 2016) had massive leaps on successful teams to get into the Heisman conversations. It’s more unlikely any of these players win the award, but we can’t rule it out.” Joe Burrows LSU

The 117 players who could win the 2019 Heisman

Drawing from past winners and finalists, we came up with every college football player who conceivably has a path to the Heisman this fall.

www.si.com

.

Okay, I concede! 117 players, the author of the article left no stone unturned in compiling that one!

 

[oldude]

No, it's a Heisman Trophy thread.

I think it’s really going to be hard for Megan to win the Heisman Trophy......but you never know....

 

[Plebe]

I think it’s really going to be hard for Megan to win the Heisman Trophy......but you never know....

It's so upsetting that the major sports media have totally ignored Megan's credentials as a Heisman candidate!

 

[CocoHusky]

Okay, I concede! 117 players, the author of the article left no stone unturned in compiling that one!

Kind of like the 2019 WCBB Naismith watch list which included both Megan Walker and Mikayla Pivec was 50 players long.

Watch list released for women's basketball Naismith Trophy

The annual preseason watch list for the women's basketball Naismith Trophy were released on Nov. 6, 2019. It includes 50 honorable candidates.

www.ncaa.com

 

[WestCoast]

The next 10 games for each D1 team will go a long ways towards shaping the final three or four candidates that will be under consideration for the NPOY. I think that the original purpose of this thread was to acknowledge Walker's strong start to the season and her candidacy for serious NPOY consideration.

Not surprising that Ionescu, the reigning NPOY would be drawn into the discussion, especially as her recent stats have improved over where she was just two games ago. With Cox out for a significant chunk of the season, the realistic pool of finalists is limited with just over 1/3 of the regular season completed.

If the majority of the posters don't want to acknowledge that Walker will have competition for the NPOY award, then no other mention of other players need appear in the thread. However, healthy discussion of realistic candidates for that award only helps to frame and highlight the strong start that Walker is off to this season.

Personally, I would like to see a new winner for the women's NPOY award for '19-'20 if another player's overall play and value to her team merit that individual honor. I like to see the wealth shared a bit.

 

[WestCoast]

I think that the more telling/interesting match-up may end of being Walker and Satou Sabally.

You may be right. However, one of Sabally's special skills that has separated her from other bigs has been her three-point shooting. This season, Sabally has struggled from beyond the arc at only 27%.

Walker may currently be the lone player who matches up favorably with the 6'4" Sabally if Sabally continues to shoot (and miss) frequently from distance. Sabally can fall in love with the three a little too much. She is a capable driver who seems to forget that her drives open things up for the Oregon offense and put defenders on their heels.

 

[bballnut90]

The next 10 games for each D1 team will go a long ways towards shaping the final three or four candidates that will be under consideration for the NPOY. I think that the original purpose of this thread was to acknowledge Walker's strong start to the season and her candidacy for serious NPOY consideration.

Not surprising that Ionescu, the reigning NPOY would be drawn into the discussion, especially as her recent stats have improved over where she was just two games ago. With Cox out for a significant chunk of the season, the realistic pool of finalists is limited with just over 1/3 of the regular season completed.

If the majority of the posters don't want to acknowledge that Walker will have competition for the NPOY award, then no other mention of other players need appear in the thread. However, healthy discussion of realistic candidates for that award only helps to frame and highlight the strong start that Walker is off to this season.

Personally, I would like to see a new winner for the women's NPOY award for '19-'20 if another player's overall play and value to her team merit that individual honor. I like to see the wealth shared a bit.

I think the pool of candidates will be a lot smaller this year .
Viable options right now include:
Megan Walker
Mikayla Pivec
Sabrina Ionescu
Ruthy Hebard
Chennedy Carter
Rhyne Howard
Dana Evans
Michaela Onyenwere

Ionescu is only taking 12 shots per game right now, look for that number to go up significantly in conference play. Also curious to see if Walker continues to take 17.5 shots per game (same number as Arike last year) and play 37.5 minutes per game.

 

[eebmg]

I think the pool of candidates will be a lot smaller this year .
Viable options right now include:
Megan Walker
Mikayla Pivec
Sabrina Ionescu
Ruthy Hebard
Chennedy Carter
Rhyne Howard
Dana Evans
Michaela Onyenwere

Ionescu is only taking 12 shots per game right now, look for that number to go up significantly in conference play. Also curious to see if Walker continues to take 17.5 shots per game (same number as Arike last year) and play 37.5 minutes per game.

Evans with a major Clunker against Syracuse.

 

[Woof 101]

I agree that preseason hype has a big impact on the eventual award winner. This decade alone we've seen Moore, Stewart, Griner, Wilson and Ionescu be heavy favorites for POY entering the season and then take home the hardware.

No attack bballnut90, I use that term here often as printed words can often come across more harsh than the actual spoken tone. My opinion of preseason hype being nothing more than banter was made above.
Your post suggests these past winners won on preseason hype. My question would be, who are the players that should have won and were not on the preseason list? Who was better than Moore, Stewart, Griner, Wilson and Ionescu the years they won the award.
Another trick in the loop is there are multiple POY awards, Naismith, Wooden, AP etc.
@CocoHusky and others concerned Megan Walker is on the Naismith preseason list. I am sure she will get her due.
The list and a nice tip of the hat here to UConn having 10 players having won this one. The breakdown of how the list is made and changes as the season progresses.
Watch list released for women's basketball Naismith Trophy | NCAA.com

 

[bballnut90]

No attack bballnut90, I use that term here often as printed words can often come across more harsh than the actual spoken tone. My opinion of preseason hype being nothing more than banter was made above.
Your post suggests these past winners won on preseason hype. My question would be, who are the players that should have won and were not on the preseason list? Who was better than Moore, Stewart, Griner, Wilson and Ionescu the years they won the award.
Another trick in the loop is there are multiple POY awards, Naismith, Wooden, AP etc.
@CocoHusky and others concerned Megan Walker is on the Naismith preseason list. I am sure she will get her due.
The list and a nice tip of the hat here to UConn having 10 players having won this one. The breakdown of how the list is made and changes as the season progresses.
Watch list released for women's basketball Naismith Trophy | NCAA.com

Didnt mean to insinuate that at all. All of them were deserving winners. I may not have worded that well, but the point I'm trying to make is that during the season, commentary and articles seem to suggest that one player is the landslide pick for POY which ignores other players having monster seasons who dont get the same recognition throughout the year. Examples of this, Griner had a good claim for POY as a sophomore but Maya swept all awards. Wouldve expected POY awards to be split if they were in the same class. Also thought Victoria Vivians should've hands down won SEC POY over A'ja in 2018 but A'ja took home the hardware despite missing 3 games and her team finishing 12-4 while MSU went undefeated through the regular season. Would've expected her or KLS to get at least one POY honor considering how well they performed that year.

It's not that the winners havent been deserving, every one of them rightfully earned their hardware, but other players seem to be somewhat of an after thought during the season when in reality I think they should get more recognition and be strongly considered.

 

[Alydar]

Maybe this is why so many in the media are starting to see Mikayla Pivec for the well-rounded bball player she is, even Rebecca Lobo!

I remember watching Pivec as a freshman. She tried to do too much but her talent was plain to see. She is much better now. I have no idea who are the leading candidates for NPOY but I suspect that ESPN has gone all-in on the PAC12 and if OSU wasn't their current No 1 team Pivec wouldn't be their second choice.
In any case none of the leading candidates has been really in a big game but Ionescu and she didn't shine against Louisville.
Jan/Feb should produce a couple of standout performances in high-profile games and our likely POY. I continue to think it's Ionescu and then the rest.
Even though I haven't seen anyone play as good as Walker.

 

[WestCoast]

I remember watching Pivec as a freshman. She tried to do too much but her talent was plain to see. She is much better now.

As a frosh, Pivec's team was led by Sydney Wiese and, along with another future WNBA player in Marie Gulich, won the PAC-12 regular season title for a third straight year. On that team, Pivec was often stationed in the corners on offense to spread the court. If anything, Pivec deferred to her upperclassmen teammates and didn't shoot that much. She started to get noticed her sophomore year when she played point guard by default and the Beavers beat Baylor before advancing to the Elite Eight against Louisville.

My sleeper pick for NPOY is Onyenwere from UCLA. Keep an eye on what is she able to do within PAC-12 play. She is a matchup nightmare for most opposing defenses.