Why do we walk so much?

[Skeets]

Maybe the refs should also emphasize the rules of palming the basketball as well.

Please, no! There will be 50 palming calls every game.

 

[Carnac]

But according to the rules, it IS a travel and has always been a travel. Specifically, what a player initiates the dribble, the ball must be out of their hands before their pivot foot moves or leaves the ground. Many times, that doesn’t happen.

This rule needs to be drummed into the the consciousness of every player daily in practice until it becomes second nature. Spend 5 minutes at every practice doing a "putting the ball on the floor" drill. Do it until it becomes automatic....muscle memory if you will. UConn needs to cut down on their turnovers. THIS would be a good place to start.

 

[Centerstream]

Hey hoopfan...I hope this comment wasn't directed to me because of my chosen profession...I can assure you that Geno has never invited me to his practices to teach his players the wares of my profession (I should be happy that you didn't at least call it a judo chop, which doesn't actually exist)...just kidding, I couldn't resist.

To properly address your comment...it does appear that the refs do go to the monitors quite a bit to make sure that the contact isn't / wasn't intentional.

I do not understand how the refs decide whether a foul is intentional. Last night when Dorka was hurt, the player drove into Dorka and intentionally raised her forearm to clear a path. Her forearm then made contact with Dorka's face, causing an injury. No foul was called and after the ref's review, no intentional foul was called. And there was actually blood drawn...a sure indication that contact occurred. Oh well. Back to the OP.

 

[meyers7]

You cannot move your pivot foot UNTIL you start to dribble.

That IS starting the dribble.

 

[meyers7]

But according to the rules, it IS a travel and has always been a travel. Specifically, what a player initiates the dribble, the ball must be out of their hands before their pivot foot moves or leaves the ground. Many times, that doesn’t happen.

No it's not. They are dribbling. That's the point, they've always called it wrong.

 

[cferraro04]

I do not understand how the refs decide whether a foul is intentional. Last night when Dorka was hurt, the player drove into Dorka and intentionally raised her forearm to clear a path. Her forearm then made contact with Dorka's face, causing an injury. No foul was called and after the ref's review, no intentional foul was called. And there was actually blood drawn...a sure indication that contact occurred. Oh well. Back to the OP.

I respect your opinion but, I do disagree with it. I did not think that the girls arm striking Dorka while she was defending her driving to the basket was intentional. I was surprised that there was no foul called at all...there was obvious contact.

 

[housekeys]

You cannot move your pivot foot UNTIL you start to dribble.

Which is why it is such a difficult call to make. There are two split second decisions a ref must make. First which is the pivot foot. Second, as you said, when they start to dribble.

A player at the top of the key takes a pass and has both feet planted at nearly the same time, they stop. Which is the pivot foot? They lean left and go right and the official blows the whistle. Why? I agree that "indecision and hesitancy play a big part and the defense should get credit. But it is a tough call, and simply quoting the rule book and assuming the refs get it right is....IDK.

 

[meyers7]

They may call it that way....but they are calling it incorrectly.

 

[cabbie191]

As I said in a previous post, I don't want to carp on the refs. I think their job is extremely difficult under the best of circumstances.

I don't like all the traveling calls we're seeing but in equal measure, I really dislike fouls called on the defense when there is very light contact on the dribbler/shooter that doesn't impede the player's motion and flow. A real grrr for all the hand check fouls we starting seeing when that became the point of emphasis.

Another beef: when there is "incidental" contact after the offensive player has taken her shot - the contact again not impeding whether it was a good shot or not.

 

[BBallF]

You cannot move your pivot foot UNTIL you start to dribble.

Right. It usually comes where the player sets up to shoot, either as a fake or for real, and then decides to drive. With Azzi and Caroline on their 3s usually, their feet are already set for a shot by the time they have received the ball. It's what happens next that is causing the problem.

 

[housekeys]

Right. It usually comes where the player sets up to shoot, either as a fake or for real, and then decides to drive. With Azzi and Caroline on their 3s usually, their feet are already set for a shot by the time they have received the ball. It's what happens next that is causing the problem.

The question is which is the pivot foot? Typically, as in the example I gave in a previous post, you must lift one or the other foot, which establishes the planted foot as your pivot. But if you do not go through the aforementioned "static" process, and immediately initiate a "dynamic" move to the basket, it is not clear which is the pivot. At least it is not to my untrained eyes.

 

[Carnac]

Thanks Monte. I watch both videos. Very informative. Us "mature" guys that played ball back in the day must realize that the rules we played by are not necessarily the rules they use and play by TODAY. Now as in yesteryear, different referees interpret the rules differently. How nice it would be if there was a degree of uniformity in officials calling games. We had a group of referees that would call our games on a rotating basis. After awhile, we knew how each official called a game, and we made adjustments to each team of referees for that game. To me, walking (traveling) and block/charge are the most difficult calls for an official to make. It's a fact of life that two officials can see the same play, and make different calls. THAT will never change.

I don't know how many times I heard my coach challenge a call or non call to the referee and the ref's response was "I didn't see it." Well, he/she was the only person in the gym/arena that didn't.

How often have YOU been at a game, you're sitting in the stands, and you can see every play on the court from 40-80 feet away, and a referee is standing within 10 feet from the play, and they don't see it? How an that be?

 

[freshler40]

UConn can not turn the the ball over as many times as they did yesterday against the better teams. In close games, a high number of turnovers that may have been converted into points may be the difference in the game such as the 3 point loss to Villanova. Perhaps 5-6 less turnovers would have resulted in 2-3 more baskets, and a 3 point win.

These players have been playing organized basketball for 8-10 years. They all should have their fundamental footwork down by now. They’ve been practicing 5-6 days a week since mid-October. Putting the ball on the floor without shuffling your feet should be something they do instinctively.

The deeper they get into the tournament, the more turnovers may become critical and may be the difference between a win and a loss. It was difficult to watch our team continuously turn the ball over In the first quarter because of simple walking violations. Every possession in tournament games is critical.

Amem, if that being called, play to the rule, don't complain if it's called. Adjust. Perhaps we need a paid ref calling it close in all full court practices, not just let the players get away with it. There is a lot to be gained by adjusting but none from complaining.

 

[freshler40]

Thanks Monte. I watch both videos. Very informative. Us "mature" guys that played ball back in the day must realize that the rules we played by are not necessarily the rules they use and play by TODAY. Now as in yesteryear, different referees interpret the rules differently. How nice it would be if there was a degree of uniformity in officials calling games. It's a fact of life that two officials can see the same play, and make different calls. THAT will never change.

I don't know how many times I heard my coach challenge a call or non call to the referee and the ref's response was "I didn't see it." Well, he/she was the only person in the gym/arena that didn't.

How often have YOU been at a game, you're sitting in the stands, and you can see every play on the court from 40-80 feet away, and a referee is standing within 10 feet from the play, and they don't see it? How an that be?

Human nature and why you can't beat 3 card monte. Some things the eye can't see especially with big bodies in from of it.

 

[BSBallin]

Bad fundamentals, anyone who has coached basketball knows that players who split their feet and put their pivot foot down before their dribble is traveling. Or would you want them all to run then dribble, except that wouldn't be basketball would it.

 

[Longtime fan]

I have watched men's and women's basketball for decades and frankly I have never seen a team commit so many traveling violations. It mostly happens when we catch a pass and initiate action. Did anyone one keep track of how many times we turned the ball over because of traveling last night versus how many times Marquette did it? Why can't we stop doing that?

I agree. It is not the refs. Olivia must have been taught to walk, rather than to dribble. Piath, in my view, has never dribbled the ball in her entire life. But we have CW and Westbrook ( not to mention Muhl...but she is from Croatia) walking all the time as well. Even Caroline. And Edwards a lot. Coaches need to change this.

 

[Redux]

I don't understand why this team has been so slow to adjust to this particular point of emphasis.

What is happening is that the refs periodically decide to rub their masters' faces in it (here's your "point of emphasis," asshats). Refs don't like being told how to ref. It's like a wildcat rulebook strike: the calls are mostly valid but the marginal ones get called instead of, as customarily, ignored to keep the game moving. The refs don't do it ll the time, but when they do it it comes in streaks. You're seeing the streaks.

If it had happened differently, if the NCAA had suddenly issued an order that refs should "NOT make a point" about the pivot foot, you'd see games where players are dragging their legs15-20 yards with no calls (e.g.like the old MLB pine tar debacle). [EDIT: My wife has just reminded me that my gift of hyperbole is not universally appreciated. Sorry]

 

[CocoHusky]

What is happening is that the refs periodically decide to rub their masters' faces in it (here's your "point of emphasis," asshats). Refs don't like being told how to ref. It's like a wildcat rulebook strike: the calls are mostly valid but the marginal ones get called instead of, as customarily, ignored to keep the game moving. The refs don't do it ll the time, but when they do it it comes in streaks. You're seeing the streaks.
If it had happened differently, if the NCAA had suddenly issued an order that refs should "NOT make a point" about the pivot foot, you'd see games where players are dragging their legs15-20 yards with no calls (e.g. like the old MLB pine tar debacle). [EDIT: My wife has just reminded me that my gift of hyperbole is not universally appreciated. Sorry]

I'm not seeing "streaks" in those traveling calls. Those calls have been consistent from the first game of the season Arkansas and has continued into UCONN last game against Marquette.

 

[Bama fan]

I was going to say that walking is good for our hearts, but upon reflection I realize that some of those UConn walks make my heart stop completely. I suppose any cardiac workout is good, but I cannot convince myself the UConn variety is okay.

 

[Monte]

The question is which is the pivot foot? Typically, as in the example I gave in a previous post, you must lift one or the other foot, which establishes the planted foot as your pivot. But if you do not go through the aforementioned "static" process, and immediately initiate a "dynamic" move to the basket, it is not clear which is the pivot. At least it is not to my untrained eyes.

The Pivot Foot is the last foot that moves from a stationary position.

 

[LoboDays]

It’s always a problem for the players when the refs are told to emphasize a certain infraction. They get called for things they have been doing wrong but got away with in the past. I’m in favor of keeping the game as pure as possible. It’s up to the coaches to have their players be aware of the changes and work on them in practice.

 

[JJTB]

I remember Ann Strother‘s jumper in the early 2000’s. I always thought she got away with traveling as she set up to shoot.

 

[darkstar1]

You cannot move your pivot foot UNTIL you start to dribble.

But you can take 2 steps (one of which must be the pivot, right?) without a dribble after receiving a pass, if you take it in for a layup. This happens all the time. Never seen a travel called for it. why then shiuld a travel called when a pass is received and 2 steps taken before a dribble. This happened to CW, Liv and Caroline as I recall. Maybe multiple times.

 

[darkstar1]

Good thing they aren't looking at palming and carrying as much.

OMG, there would be 100 calls per game. How about just calling fouls consistently? Especially when someone who has established position is elbowed in the mouth.

 

[HuskylnSC]

It's a stupid call. You can't travel while you're dribbling the ball. You're dribbling. So what if you shuffle your feet while you're "starting" to dribble, it's part of dribbling. Stupid to call it incorrectly at all, let alone be a point of emphasis.

I reffed many many moons ago and I have a totally different take. I would get upset at all the traveling that wasn't called. If your pivot foot comes up before the ball leaves your hand, you have changed pivots and are guilty of a travel. I have some questions about the Eurostep also. Players will catch the ball with two hands, take an exaggerated step, Then another step. When the first step after the catch comes off the floor, it's a travel. If the player catches the ball during the long step, it's good. I see players travel with a jab step. They will jab left and ball fake left then start to the right moving the ball from the fake to dibble, the right foot comes up and it's a travel. Another travel occurs in the jostling under the hoop. The player with the ball is jostled and shuffles to get their balance. If the ref thinks the jostle was incidental then it's a travel or you have to call a tic-tac foul.

The problem is you can't start changing the way the game has been called for years in the middle of the season.

 

[housekeys]

The Pivot Foot is the last foot that moves from a stationary position.

Thanks, but the question I posed is which is the pivot foot on any specific play? Repeating the "rule" does not make any point. What is your point? My point is that, on any specific play (and there are many) it is not obvious, as it is in the rule you state.

 

[Urshurak]

Liv travels at least twice a game. AE at least once. Nika probably once every other game. It's probably not as bad as we think, but yeah, this team has 39 turnovers over the last two games. Not good.

 

[CTBballfan243]

 

[Bigboote]

Some folks beat me to the musical punch, but this was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the thread title:

 

[Conndog]

Yep, pound ball before you take that first step.

This confuses me a little- is starting the dribble when the ball actually strikes the floor, or does a dribble begin when the ball is released from the hand towards the floor but maybe hasn't hit the floor yet?