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Why Allen left the Celts

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Hoophound said:
Part of being a true fan is feeling the gamut of emotions. Nomar simply feels those emotions. I don't fault him at all.

I was more of a Ray fan that liked the C's because Ray was there. If I were a C's fan first, I'd be pissed with Ray. Ray has every right to go and jump ship and good reason to do so but C's fans have every right to dislike him for it.
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There's a Ray Allen Celtics game worn jersey on ebay. The value just went down. Great news!

Edit: Dammit, the Ray Allen Bucks jersey just went up!
 
nomar said:
This is just a real to the Celtics.
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No, it's not. Ray played for the Celtics for 5 years, that doesn't mean that he owes it to them to take whatever offer they put on the table. Put yourself in Ray's shoes - your point guard doesn't like you. Bradley's got your starting position next season. The Celtics brought in Jason Terry, who's going to get some of your minutes. You can deal with all that, or you can go spend a couple of years in Sunny Miami playing with the defending champs and best player in the NBA (a guy who, if you are open, will always get you the ball). Keep in mind that you're already extremely wealthy and a couple of million really isn't a big deal at this point in your career. Unless you're a Celtics fan, that's a pretty easy decision.
 
Dogdeacon had a good point when he talked about the pure basketball decision involved. Truthfully, late this year and in the playoffs, Ray just wasn't getting open much - some of it was age/ankle problems robbing him of a step. But a lot of it was that teams would let Rondo drive or let Garnett work 1-on-1, but they would stay glued to Ray's hip, and if he ran off screens, defenders were willing to send two guys at him and leave the screener open. Bass got a lot of wide open 15 footers as the lesser of two evils when Ray was coming off his screen.

In Miami, if teams stay glued to his hip, Wade and James will go nuts. He probably won't have to work as hard to get open. Leaving emotion and abstract feelings of loyalty out of it, he's a better fit there (and would have been a better fit with the Clips). As good as Rondo is, Ray's defender was never paying the tiniest ounce of attention to him when he drove - whereas with Wade/James (or Chris Paul had he gone to LA), they'll have to try to help and recover.

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huskypantz said:
No, it's not. Ray played for the Celtics for 5 years, that doesn't mean that he owes it to them to take whatever offer they put on the table. Put yourself in Ray's shoes - your point guard doesn't like you. Bradley's got your starting position next season. The Celtics brought in Jason Terry, who's going to get some of your minutes. You can deal with all that, or you can go spend a couple of years in Sunny Miami playing with the defending champs and best player in the NBA (a guy who, if you are open, will always get you the ball). Keep in mind that you're already extremely wealthy and a couple of million really isn't a big deal at this point in your career. Unless you're a Celtics fan, that's a pretty easy decision.
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and no taxes, he can easily make up the money in endorsements anyways, Ray doesnt owe the Celtics a damn thing he played his 5 years there. If your a Celtics fan I could understand your dissapointment in Ray but be reasonable.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Reports were Celtics were offering a no-trade clause - so how can that be such a concern? You don't react to a fear of being trade by going somewhere else AND going somewhere that cannot offer a no-trade. Also the report of the Celtics no-trade offer to Ray is basically the entire premise for AWoj's assertion that Allen wanted to stick it to the Celtics - I disagree. Miami just happens to be in their conference, I bet Ray would prefer they weren't. To some extent I wonder if the Celtics were really offering Ray $6MM & 2yrs. It just doesn't make sense to sign Jason Terry and Ray once Avery Bradley is healthy. I wonder if the reports of the Celtics offers were just PR to avoid the sting of not wanting a popular player?

It'll be interesting to see what Ray himself says when he finally talks. Some of that article might be true especially the Rondo stuff - but my best guess (and I think that article is a GUESS) is that it came down to Basketball reasons. Lots of unknown 'sources' in that article and it seems like a bunch of hearsay cobbled together into guesses to add drama.

Ray was almost always the 3rd or 4th option in the Boston offense and his entire time on the Celtics there'd be occasional articles/talk about how they need to get him involved earlier in games yet this never happened consistently. Its easy to blame Rondo and say that was the issue, but ultimately its the coach who sets the offense and the Celtics offense was best served by Rondo attacking. When Ray was featured it was in a Paul Pierce create a shot way, often without picks and Ray cannot attack the rim or get separation with quickness as well as he could 5 yrs ago - and eons from Ray of 10yrs ago.

So I think Ray simply saw in the Miami Heat a team whose offense style was much better suited to his style of play particularly at this point in his career. If Mike Miller can make 7 three's in a game and Shane Battier can get WIDE open looks Ray has to be drooling at the number & quality of shots he will get in that offense. I think he switched teams because he'll enjoy playing there more (some Rondo negative to be read into) and he knows he can succeed and succeed for longer in the Heat offense.
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Great points all around. Love Rondo's game, but always felt he was a punk. Ray's not the only one of the Big Three who had big time issues with him, from what I've heard and read. Rondo can be a real head-case. After they won the Finals in 2008, Ainge was looking to trade Rondo. He was late to team meetings, skipping practice, etc. Doc is a great coach, and he did a great job at getting his guys to buy into sacrificing their games to win. Even though Ray lost a lot of explosiveness before he set foot in Boston (double ankle surgery), he was still more than a just a sharp-shooter. H sacrificed the most as far as game and money. After the C's lost to the Heat this postseason, Ray said something along the lines of "I still have years left in these legs". He will be 37 soon. He has a lot of pride and feels he can still play at a high level. I think he felt that the C's didn't feel the same way.
 
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Huskies4ever said:
Great points all around. Love Rondo's game, but always felt he was a punk. Ray's not the only one of the Big Three who had big time issues with him, from what I've heard and read. Rondo can be a real head-case. After they won the Finals in 2008, Ainge was looking to trade Rondo. He was late to team meetings, skipping practice, etc. Doc is a great coach, and he did a great job at getting his guys to buy into sacrificing their games to win. Even though Ray lost a lot of explosiveness before he set foot in Boston (double ankle surgery), he was still more than a just a sharp-shooter. H sacrificed the most as far as game and money. After the C's lost to the Heat this postseason, Ray said something along the lines of "I still have years left in these legs". He will be 37 soon. He has a lot of pride and feels he can still play at a high level. I think he felt that the C's didn't feel the same way.
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I talked with someone that I know who is in connection with people who work in the NBA I wont use his name, he has told me that Rondo as great a talent as he is, is a big time dick and that was the reason he wasnt being considered for the olympic team.
 
nomar said:
Ray picked them over the Celts. Like I said, he's got the right to do it. And Celtics fans have the right to think it was a dick move.
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And anybody else has the right to think the Celts dicked Ray the last several years (which they did).
 
Scoe said:
I talked with someone that I know who is in connection with people who work in the NBA I wont use his name, he has told me that Rondo as great a talent as he is, is a big time dick and that was the reason he wasnt being considered for the olympic team.
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Thanks, my points exactly. Paying close attention to the C's for nearly 20 years, I have read, heard, and seen a lot of disdain for Rondo's character in the Big Three era.
 
Hoophound said:
Part of being a true fan is feeling the gamut of emotions. Nomar simply feels those emotions. I don't fault him at all.

I was more of a Ray fan that liked the C's because Ray was there. If I were a C's fan first, I'd be pissed with Ray. Ray has every right to go and jump ship and good reason to do so but C's fans have every right to dislike him for it.
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Of course, that's part of being a fan. I'm happy for Ray. He deserves better.
 
nomar said:
I gotta say, Ray has been one of my 2 favorite basketball players since he came to Storrs (look at my avatar), but he comes out of this looking like a little crybaby. Paul Pierce has heard his name floated in trade rumors, has been recruited by other teams and players, has played for some terrible teams, and kept his mouth shut and stayed loyal.

Yeah, I understand why Ray has been ticked off -- I can understand him not being pleased about being offered to Memphis and not getting along with Rondo (although, again, be a pro about it, dude), but the not-starting thing was a joke. Bradley out-played him.

I'm one of the few Sox fans who didn't think Damon "betrayed" us even though he "promised" to never sign with the Yanks. They offered him $10M more than the Sox did. It's hard to blame someone. He wasn't then a 40-year-old guy; he was still in his prime.

Here, on the other hand, as the article points out, the Celtics showed Ray a lot of respect this off-season. They offered him a nice deal, doubling the Heat. And there has been talk of a no-trade clause; so people can't say "he didn't want to be traded" until we find out whether or not the Celts actually offered to include a no-trade clause.

He just didn't want to hear it, I guess. The ship had sailed. He was looking for a new suitor to whisper sweet nothings in his ear. Have fun, Ray. I can't say I wish success for you, but good luck. You did what you had to do and I'll do what I have to: not be a big fan anymore.
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It wasn't loyalty on Boston's part that lead to the termination of the Memphis/Boston deal this past season........
 
nomar said:
I gotta say, Ray has been one of my 2 favorite basketball players since he came to Storrs (look at my avatar), but he comes out of this looking like a little crybaby. Paul Pierce has heard his name floated in trade rumors, has been recruited by other teams and players, has played for some terrible teams, and kept his mouth shut and stayed loyal.

Yeah, I understand why Ray has been ticked off -- I can understand him not being pleased about being offered to Memphis and not getting along with Rondo (although, again, be a pro about it, dude), but the not-starting thing was a joke. Bradley out-played him.

I'm one of the few Sox fans who didn't think Damon "betrayed" us even though he "promised" to never sign with the Yanks. They offered him $10M more than the Sox did. It's hard to blame someone. He wasn't then a 40-year-old guy; he was still in his prime.

Here, on the other hand, as the article points out, the Celtics showed Ray a lot of respect this off-season. They offered him a nice deal, doubling the Heat. And there has been talk of a no-trade clause; so people can't say "he didn't want to be traded" until we find out whether or not the Celts actually offered to include a no-trade clause.

He just didn't want to hear it, I guess. The ship had sailed. He was looking for a new suitor to whisper sweet nothings in his ear. Have fun, Ray. I can't say I wish success for you, but good luck. You did what you had to do and I'll do what I have to: not be a big fan anymore.
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You're a wonderful poster, and I love to read and I respect everything you post.....except this. This is about as bad as the post about us not being elite anymore. Hey, Ray knows how good he is, the C's don't. That's okay, the C's will survive without one of the best shooting guards they've ever had. Without one of the most high character guys they've had in this Big Three Era. He knows he can still play at a high level, and doesn't need to be recruited over (Bradley/Terry). The C's haven't shown him much loyalty the last several years (always the topic of trade talks) and benched him in favor of Avery Bradley. Avery Bradley?!!!! He's made strides, is young, and has great promise. He is no Ray Allen. Ray helped bring them a title, and sacrificed so much. Without Ray, the C's would not have won the 2008 Finals. Ray is an extremely hard worker, is the consummate professional. Be happy for him. He is going somewhere where he will be appreciated.
 
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Judas Shuttlesworth!!!


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Huskies4ever said:
It wasn't loyalty on Boston's part that lead to the termination of the Memphis/Boston deal this past season........
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This is such a joke of an excuse (which is pretty much in line with what you'd expect for this board).

The Celtics didn't trade Ray at the deadline because they thought he was useless and had nothing left - they were attempting to blow things up. In fact, Paul Pierce, who has played his entire career with the Celtics was almost traded to Jersey for a draft pick. Yet Pierce never b****ed about it, even though Jersey was a lottery team as opposed to a playoff team like the Grizz.

Ray had the right to go wherever he wanted, but the Wojo article makes his reasons for choosing the Heat over the Celtics look petty.
 
Its free agency Ray can choose to go to any team that he wants, are Celtics fans gonna complain about Ray and KG betraying their teams to join the Celtics. Did you know if Ray never joined the Celtics KG would not have gone there. The Celtics were the first team recently to form a super team, there is nothing wrong with that all but dont be a hypocrite.
 
H4ever,

I realize that my response is emotional, but that's kind of the point. To Celtics fans and to his ex-teammates, this is a finger in the eye. KG and Pierce were blindsided by this. You fight next to someone in the trenches, you don't expect that they're going to run over to the other side and start shooting (especially when they're offered more money to stay). And, if you're Ray Allen, you have to know that this is how your Celtics teammates are going to feel, and you have to know that Boston fans are going to feel betrayed as well.

People keep bringing up the Memphis non-trade as if I didn't say 5 times in this thread that I can understand why Ray felt disrespected by the Celtics organization. But you know who didn't try to trade him? His teammates and Celtics fans. So he can feel justified in sticking it to the front office, but if he doesn't understand why his ex-teammates and Celtics fans feel betrayed, then he's delusional. Ray's not stupid, I think he must understand it to an extent, but he wasn't happy in Boston, and weighing the costs and benefits, he decided to leave. Like I've said a couple times, it's his right to do so and I wish him luck, but I won't be rooting for him.

And Bradley did outplay Ray this year. Ray was not at full strength, and Bradley was playing out of his mind. He deserved to start. We've had debates on this board about the Huskies lineup -- should players start because they're upperclassmen, or do you play the guy who's earning it on the court?

UConn boards and Heat boards are probably going to be the only two places where you'll find a majority of people defending Ray. Which is fine. I'm loyal -- I get that. But understand that Celtics fans are pretty ticked off. I don't know how I'd feel if I haven't been such a huge Ray fan. I'm incapable of hating Ray.
 
I think the BS being piled on Ray, especially by the Boston media, has justified his decision.
 
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Ray's been traded twice when he was happy where he was, and has been a pro about it and made the most of it in his new city. He was on the verge of a third last year. That has not happened to Pierce or KG (KG's only trade was one he welcomed). It doesn't mean that Ray was hurt or bitter that the C's tried to move him, my guess is that it grated him a bit but he wasn't thinking about sticking it to anyone. What it most certainly did do was remind him that the NBA is a business and that loyalty is sort of a naïve concept. He's been hardened a little. So he acted in his own self-interest, for whatever the reasons.

Celtics fans can be ticked and all, but he is 37 and was rapidly becoming a fringe player for them and his move helped free up room for some other contracts, so it isn't even sour grapes for the fans to say "hell with it, we're better off". They probably are.

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nomar said:
H4ever,

I realize that my response is emotional, but that's kind of the point. To Celtics fans and to his ex-teammates, this is a finger in the eye. KG and Pierce were blindsided by this. You fight next to someone in the trenches, you don't expect that they're going to run over to the other side and start shooting (especially when they're offered more money to stay). And, if you're Ray Allen, you have to know that this is how your Celtics teammates are going to feel, and you have to know that Boston fans are going to feel betrayed as well.

People keep bringing up the Memphis non-trade as if I didn't say 5 times in this thread that I can understand why Ray felt disrespected by the Celtics organization. But you know who didn't try to trade him? His teammates and Celtics fans. So he can feel justified in sticking it to the front office, but if he doesn't understand why his ex-teammates and Celtics fans feel betrayed, then he's delusional. Ray's not stupid, I think he must understand it to an extent, but he wasn't happy in Boston, and weighing the costs and benefits, he decided to leave. Like I've said a couple times, it's his right to do so and I wish him luck, but I won't be rooting for him.

And Bradley did outplay Ray this year. Ray was not at full strength, and Bradley was playing out of his mind. He deserved to start. We've had debates on this board about the Huskies lineup -- should players start because they're upperclassmen, or do you play the guy who's earning it on the court?

UConn boards and Heat boards are probably going to be the only two places where you'll find a majority of people defending Ray. Which is fine. I'm loyal -- I get that. But understand that Celtics fans are pretty ticked off. I don't know how I'd feel if I haven't been such a huge Ray fan. I'm incapable of hating Ray.
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Nomar, I totally understand your feelings as a Celtic fan. I've been following the C's for 20 years. UConn is my only true love in sports, everyone else I am more or less a fair weather fan. Look at Roscoe, he did what was best for him. So didn't Ray. He feels like he can still offer a team a lot. I don't think what he envisions as his role on a team is the same as what the C's envision. Henceforth, he made a decision to move on. I don't think hes sticking it to the front office. I don't think he's letting his teammates or the fans down. Everybody will move on. Let's wait and see what Ray says tomorrow or in the subsequent weeks. I always want the Celtics to have a gteat team.
By the way, Bradley had a nice stretch, but when Ray was healthy (he shows in practice that he deserves playing time too) he proved that he's still got it.
 
Waquoit said:
I think the BS being piled on Ray, especially by the Boston media, has justified his decision.
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Um, what piling on? The most scathing piece so far was written by Wojo, who is a national guy.

The vast majority of the Boston media has (surprisingly) come to Ray's defense. It's the fans who have been, and continue to, rip him.
 
This fascinating thread has allowed me to learn things about myself more than anything else.

I pretty much stopped caring about the NBA as the Bird-Parrish-McHale years waned, and not long I after got rewarded with a UConn basketball program that was unimaginable when I started watching it back in the days the Celtics were THE CELTICS. In any given year up until 2008, I might or might not start watching NBA Playoffs only after the first round ended. The idea that more than half the teams made the Playoffs has always offended me. But when I watched the Pierce-Garnett-Allen trio win the NBA Championship, it took me completely by surprise as to how much I still felt for the Celtics. And, further, in recent years, I've checked in with the NBA a little more in order to see many players who never played NCAA ball, or made a huge impression in one year like Durant.

This year, I watched a decent amount of the Playoffs, but without much sense of the shortened season that preceded them. Naturally, I rooted for the Celtics, who were good enough to take a Bosh-less Heat team to a 7th Game, but I truly marveled at both James & Durant being at times utterly unstoppable ("Good defense always beats good offense, except for when it doesn't and makes me go slack-jawed 'Wow!'")

Back when I cared, starting with Fisk, every Red Sox player who departed (especially for the Bronx) became "dead to me," with the exception of Pedro to the Mets, and especially Damon notwithstanding the economics of his move. Here, I've discovered that my loyalty to Walter Ray Allen as quintessential Husky runs so deep, that I'd root for him even if he'd signed with the Yankees.
 
Scoe said:
Its free agency Ray can choose to go to any team that he wants, are Celtics fans gonna complain about Ray and KG betraying their teams to join the Celtics. Did you know if Ray never joined the Celtics KG would not have gone there. The Celtics were the first team recently to form a super team, there is nothing wrong with that all but dont be a hypocrite.
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It's not petty, he didn't feel wanted, valued, respected. He never asked to be traded. He showed up to practice, worked hard, and continued to show the professionalism that has defined his career. He didn't whine (or b**ch as you put it). As you said he had the right to go elsewhere. The Heat showed him they wanted him. The C's did not. No brainer.
FWIW, before the season started, I thought that this was Ray's last year cause there was no way they would resign him.
 
Um, they recruited him just as hard as the Heat, offered him twice as much money, and were even willing to give him some no-trade protection. I'd say they wanted him.

Just because Pierce and Garnett (and Doc and Danny) weren't tweeting constantly about Ray doesn't mean they weren't recruiting him pretty hard. They were.
 
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Yeah, and they brought in Terry. Look, Ray wasn't a part of their plans. He was gonna be a guy who could come off the bench and get a look at a three every once in a rare while. I don't think they were too serious about their offer.
 
The Heat are simply a better fit for Ray Allen. It's pretty obvious Ray was going to have a reduced role with the Celtics, who are stocking up on young talented guards, which I think is warranted for the Celtics perspective. Why not move to a team who absolutely can use an aging sharp shooter to round out their roster. It really was the right decision for Ray.

In the end, this is probably better for the Celtics anyways. You dont have to sign Ray for two years at a higher cost (with a no trade), and you get to work in the new talent. Seems like the diehard Celtics fans all think Bradley is better than Ray at this point anyways, so whats the big deal?
 
Huskies4ever said:
Yeah, and they brought in Terry. Look, Ray wasn't a part of their plans. He was gonna be a guy who could come off the bench and get a look at a three every once in a rare while. I don't think they were too serious about their offer.
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They said the entire time their plan was to bring BOTH guys in.

They offered twice as much money with some no-trade protection - I'd say they were pretty serious. But there is a little more PT, a more defined role, and a better chance to win a title available in Miami.

I understand why Ray chose to go there, but let's not pretend the Celtics didn't try hard to bring him back.
 
It's interesting to see/read/hear Boston fans talk about Ray Allen. I've heard him raked over the coals, but he had a very good regular season before he was injured. He was shooting the ball the best of his career and is one of the reasons the Celtics were even seeded as highly as they were. Sure he may not have been the 3rd best player anymore but they will miss his game this year.

The threat of having Ray open from 3 was huge at creating space for the Celtics. Bradley shot the ball well, but isn't a great shooter and is going to be coming back mid-season from an injury. Terry is decent but nowhere near the threat Ray was/is from deep.

Miami needs some help up front but they are darn solid 1-4 but have a huge gaping hole at the 5.
 
UConn990411 said:
They said the entire time their plan was to bring BOTH guys in.

They offered twice as much money with some no-trade protection - I'd say they were pretty serious. But there is a little more PT, a more defined role, and a better chance to win a title available in Miami.

I understand why Ray chose to go there, but let's not pretend the Celtics didn't try hard to bring him back.
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Fool's Gold.
 
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