Why Adama Sanogo's 3-point prowess could mean more playing time for UConn freshman Donovan Clingan (Borges)

[REB1094]

I think it's situational really. For all the good things Donovan brings in the paint, rebounding, rim protection and passing inside out, he's a huge negative guarding on the perimeter or in space.

Could it work against Creighton? Yes, I think so. Kalk can shoot from outside but that's not what he mostly does. Some inside out passing would really help Karaban get shots off, he just isn't getting free on screens like Hawkins can. Can it work against Xavier? That would be risky. Villanova too.

Jackson needs closer to 20 minutes than 30, DC should be in the 12-15 range. They need to find a way. As for Sanogo, there has been a clear shift away from posting him and throwing entry passes. He's playing like a modern NBA big, catching and driving, scoring off P&R, hitting outside shots. His dexterity around the rim when facing is impressive as hell, almost impossible to block. This is absolutely great for him, and his opportunities in the NBA.

It was immediately evident on Saturday that Clingan’s size was bothering Kalkbrenner. He definitely wasn’t used to that since he’s matched on Sanogo most of the time

Once Clingan can get the footwork and touch down (this offseason), he’s going to be such a threat with a low post game on top of his current rim running and glass-crashing

 

[JohnFSilver]

I think it's situational really. For all the good things Donovan brings in the paint, rebounding, rim protection and passing inside out, he's a huge negative guarding on the perimeter or in space.

Could it work against Creighton? Yes, I think so. Kalk can shoot from outside but that's not what he mostly does. Some inside out passing would really help Karaban get shots off, he just isn't getting free on screens like Hawkins can. Can it work against Xavier? That would be risky. Villanova too.

Jackson needs closer to 20 minutes than 30, DC should be in the 12-15 range. They need to find a way. As for Sanogo, there has been a clear shift away from posting him and throwing entry passes. He's playing like a modern NBA big, catching and driving, scoring off P&R, hitting outside shots. His dexterity around the rim when facing is impressive as hell, almost impossible to block. This is absolutely great for him, and his opportunities in the NBA.

I am with this. Notably as an anti-two centers guy (two centers doesn’t a work) but offensively sanogo play the perimeter.

Seems counter intuitive, but he is better as a face up big with threat to shoot than as a low post back to the basket option.

Hell, I would play Jackson in the 5 on offense and sanogo on the perimeter as a 4.

Defensively? Could be a train wreck if you go Karaban at the 3 against a classic 3-guard lineup. He can’t guard out there like that.

I am disappointed in Hurkey’s creativeness with the team, tbh. There were other combinations out there, especially with a weird skill set guy like Jackson who you can’t have on the court on offense, and have to have on the court if you are going to win.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I think it's situational really. For all the good things Donovan brings in the paint, rebounding, rim protection and passing inside out, he's a huge negative guarding on the perimeter or in space.

Could it work against Creighton? Yes, I think so. Kalk can shoot from outside but that's not what he mostly does. Some inside out passing would really help Karaban get shots off, he just isn't getting free on screens like Hawkins can. Can it work against Xavier? That would be risky. Villanova too.

Jackson needs closer to 20 minutes than 30, DC should be in the 12-15 range. They need to find a way. As for Sanogo, there has been a clear shift away from posting him and throwing entry passes. He's playing like a modern NBA big, catching and driving, scoring off P&R, hitting outside shots. His dexterity around the rim when facing is impressive as hell, almost impossible to block. This is absolutely great for him, and his opportunities in the NBA.

Geez. Was Jake a huge negative guarding on the perimeter or in space? How about Zach Edey the NPOY? Jackson needs 12-15 off the bench, Clingan should be starting in his place, unfortunately Hurley would rather walk barefoot on broken glass than do that.

 

[jake14mw]

I really spend almost no time here criticizing coaches. There's a good reason why these guys have worked their way to coaching elite programs at the D1 level and I'm sitting on my couch watching. However, Hurley does have some very interesting things to work out here. I have never been much of a proponent of playing Sanogo and Clingan at the same time. Both of their games are close to the basket games, and I don't know how you effectively play them together. It's nice that Sanogo has 40% on his limited threes that he has taken. That doesn't just make him a perimeter player. He's hitting those threes because he's wide open with a 5 player not guarding him on the perimeter. If Clingan is in the game at the same time, Sanogo won't get those wide open threes. At the same time, I don't think this means that there are not some times where they can be effective together on the floor. There should be some. I was very surprised when Hurley was quoted mid-season that they had not worked on anything there.

The big thing that Hurley needs to figure out is what to do with Jackson. Right now Jackson is obviously a huge liability on offense. Hurley needs to figure out a way to change that. There should be things that can be done. If he can't figure that out, then he has to play Jackson less. I don't think Alleyne or Diarra are the answer. They are okay, but their upside seems to be very limited. To me it's either JC or Clingan. We have to get JC contributing again at some level.

So, two questions for Hurley - how do you get Clingan more minutes, and you have address the Jackson situation. It's not a simple thing, but I will judge his coaching by how he handles these two things down the stretch.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I really spend almost no time here criticizing coaches. There's a good reason why these guys have worked their way to coaching elite programs at the D1 level and I'm sitting on my couch watching. However, Hurley does have some very interesting things to work out here. I have never been much of a proponent of playing Sanogo and Clingan at the same time. Both of their games are close to the basket games, and I don't know how you effectively play them together. It's nice that Sanogo has 40% on his limited threes that he has taken. That doesn't just make him a perimeter player. He's hitting those threes because he's wide open with a 5 player not guarding him on the perimeter. If Clingan is in the game at the same time, Sanogo won't get those wide open threes. At the same time, I don't think this means that there are not some times where they can be effective together on the floor. There should be some. I was very surprised when Hurley was quoted mid-season that they had not worked on anything there.

The big thing that Hurley needs to figure out is what to do with Jackson. Right now Jackson is obviously a huge liability on offense. Hurley needs to figure out a way to change that. There should be things that can be done. If he can't figure that out, then he has to play Jackson less. I don't think Alleyne or Diarra are the answer. They are okay, but their upside seems to be very limited. To me it's either JC or Clingan. We have to get JC contributing again at some level.

So, two questions for Hurley - how do you get Clingan more minutes, and you have address the Jackson situation. It's not a simple thing, but I will judge his coaching by how he handles these two things down the stretch.

Why do some fans feel it is inappropriate to criticize game strategy?

Certainly can criticize Hurley. We’ve all see enough games to know good hoops and bad hoops. And, Hurley seems fine with the criticism. He knows it’s part of the deal.

 

[Rico444]

Hurley is going to have to scheme up some sets where Andre is catching the ball on the move and try to generate an open look for someone else. It doesn't make sense to me that we don't see him go into the paint more when Sanogo catches the ball on the low block; if his defender is going to ignore him then it leaves an easy dunk like we've seen a few times in the last few weeks.

That being said, I think we're going to see a quicker hook with Andre in the future if he plays like he did Saturday. We all know his limitations offensively, but if he also has 0 assists then he's not providing much value.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I really spend almost no time here criticizing coaches. There's a good reason why these guys have worked their way to coaching elite programs at the D1 level and I'm sitting on my couch watching. However, Hurley does have some very interesting things to work out here. I have never been much of a proponent of playing Sanogo and Clingan at the same time. Both of their games are close to the basket games, and I don't know how you effectively play them together. It's nice that Sanogo has 40% on his limited threes that he has taken. That doesn't just make him a perimeter player. He's hitting those threes because he's wide open with a 5 player not guarding him on the perimeter. If Clingan is in the game at the same time, Sanogo won't get those wide open threes. At the same time, I don't think this means that there are not some times where they can be effective together on the floor. There should be some. I was very surprised when Hurley was quoted mid-season that they had not worked on anything there.

The big thing that Hurley needs to figure out is what to do with Jackson. Right now Jackson is obviously a huge liability on offense. Hurley needs to figure out a way to change that. There should be things that can be done. If he can't figure that out, then he has to play Jackson less. I don't think Alleyne or Diarra are the answer. They are okay, but their upside seems to be very limited. To me it's either JC or Clingan. We have to get JC contributing again at some level.

So, two questions for Hurley - how do you get Clingan more minutes, and you have address the Jackson situation. It's not a simple thing, but I will judge his coaching by how he handles these two things down the stretch.

I agree with most of what you said, but I also believe that if/when we have AS and DC both in together, if the opponent was to have their 4-man chase Sanogo out to the 3 point line, then that leaves Donovan one on one with their 5-man. In that scenario, it (1) let's DC try to take advantage of a height mismatch and (2) if/when help comes over, it let's DC with his very good passing ability hit the open man on the perimeter (Hawk or Alex or Tristen most likely).

Also, if you get a high-low with DC at the key, he either sets effective picks or is able to find the open man down low (often AS or a cutter) by passing over the top of the defense.

What's not to like on offense?

Defensively, I think it can work for periods of man to man and with a zone. This would throw monkey wrenches at our opponents and that is exactly what is needed in tourney time when teams either know you well (BE tourney) or have lots of scout time (NCAA tourney). It's all about which team adjusts better.

I know I'm picking out happy path scenarios, but I just don't see why the AS/DC combo can't be done for 5-10 minutes a game depending on matchups, foul trouble, etc.

I think if this were to be successful, it would take us from sweet sixteen potential to Elite 8 or better potential. That's why I think the staff should use the next 5 games to give this a try.

 

[Dogdeacon]

See above CTFAN4Life - was waiting for someone to say of course it could work on defense if they played some zone.
UConn already employs a 1-3-1 trap, why not also use a 3-2 to put both DC and Sanogo on floor?

 

[jake14mw]

Why do some fans feel it is inappropriate to criticize game strategy?

Certainly can criticize Hurley. We’ve all see enough games to know good hoops and bad hoops. And, Hurley seems fine with the criticism. He knows it’s part of the deal.

I never said people can't criticize him. There will always be some level of critiquing of coaches decisions. What I get a kick out of though is people acting as though the coaching staff doesn't know what they are doing, or don't see or coach the obvious things. Do people really think that D1 coaches haven't told Adama he needs to handle double teams better or haven't worked with Andre on his offensive game?

 

[superjohn]

Forgot how exact some people on this board are, I should have said 11.9-13 minutes instead of 15

You should have said Clingan should be getting 20 minutes per game.

 

[jake14mw]

I agree with most of what you said, but I also believe that if/when we have AS and DC both in together, if the opponent was to have their 4-man chase Sanogo out to the 3 point line, then that leaves Donovan one on one with their 5-man. In that scenario, it (1) let's DC try to take advantage of a height mismatch and (2) if/when help comes over, it let's DC with his very good passing ability hit the open man on the perimeter (Hawk or Alex or Tristen most likely).

Also, if you get a high-low with DC at the key, he either sets effective picks or is able to find the open man down low (often AS or a cutter) by passing over the top of the defense.

What's not to like on offense?

Defensively, I think it can work for periods of man to man and with a zone. This would throw monkey wrenches at our opponents and that is exactly what is needed in tourney time when teams either know you well (BE tourney) or have lots of scout time (NCAA tourney). It's all about which team adjusts better.

I know I'm picking out happy path scenarios, but I just don't see why the AS/DC combo can't be done for 5-10 minutes a game depending on matchups, foul trouble, etc.

I think if this were to be successful, it would take us from sweet sixteen potential to Elite 8 or better potential. That's why I think the staff should use the next 5 games to give this a try.

I agree, smarter coaches than me should be able to figure out a way to utilize two extremely talented guys at the same time in certain situations. I can't identify too many situations where I think it would work, but I don't qualify for being paid over a million dollars a year to figure it out.

 

[superjohn]

I think it's situational really. For all the good things Donovan brings in the paint, rebounding, rim protection and passing inside out, he's a huge negative guarding on the perimeter or in space.

Could it work against Creighton? Yes, I think so. Kalk can shoot from outside but that's not what he mostly does. Some inside out passing would really help Karaban get shots off, he just isn't getting free on screens like Hawkins can. Can it work against Xavier? That would be risky. Villanova too.

Jackson needs closer to 20 minutes than 30, DC should be in the 12-15 range. They need to find a way. As for Sanogo, there has been a clear shift away from posting him and throwing entry passes. He's playing like a modern NBA big, catching and driving, scoring off P&R, hitting outside shots. His dexterity around the rim when facing is impressive as hell, almost impossible to block. This is absolutely great for him, and his opportunities in the NBA.

He's 7'2, he guards the paint.

Xavier is an excellent 3 point shooting team, the rest of the teams we lose to are lousy three point shooting teams. It makes no sense that Clingan doesn't play more.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

See above CTFAN4Life - was waiting for someone to say of course it could work on defense if they played some zone.
UConn already employs a 1-3-1 trap, why not also use a 3-2 to put both DC and Sanogo on floor?

Agreed - been saying that for weeks now. The time is right to try these things over the next five very winneable games.

 

[HuskyHawk]

He's 7'2, he guards the paint.

Xavier is an excellent 3 point shooting team, the rest of the teams we lose to are lousy three point shooting teams. It makes no sense that Clingan doesn't play more.

I said he should play more. Especially against teams that have bigs that don't shoot from outside.

It goes back to my original concern when we signed him. Hurley's defense does not allow for a center that guards the paint. He has no such defense in his repertoire. Early in the year, against OOC teams who didn't know much about UConn, that didn't matter much. In league play it has mattered a lot.

Hurley is going to have to figure this out next year. For now he's mostly playing against the backup 5, and occasionally in a 1-3-1. My guess is he will have double figure minutes vs Seton Hall, PC and DePaul, and under 10 against St. Johns and Villanova. St. Johns is unclear, Soriano could get Sanogo in foul trouble, but it was DC's worst game. 9 minutes, no points, 4 fouls, 3 TOs. Would love to see him avenge that and get more minutes.

 

[navery12]

You should have said Clingan should be getting 20 minutes per game.

Yeah if you think he should be getting 20 every game then I can see being annoyed by the 11.9 he's getting

 

[NJHusky]

This. We need to think of Jackson/Clingan minutes instead of Sanogo/Clingan.

For whatever reason, Hurley is averse to playing some freshman big minutes.

Is he averse to playing a fresh or is he averse to taking minutes from a captain?

 

[husky429]

Is he averse to playing a fresh or is he averse to taking minutes from a captain?

We have not had captains before, and the reluctance to trust freshman in big moments is a multi-year trend. So no, it has nothing to do with who is or isn't a captain. Sticking with B Adams for way too long his last season here comes to mind.

Captains shouldn't care about PT. Best captain I ever had on a ball team didn't start, and didn't touch the court in a close fourth-quarter.

 

[NJHusky]

Hell, I would play Jackson in the 5 on offense and sanogo on the perimeter as a 4.

you lose a few inches but with Jax’s vertical he can get up way higher than AS. I wish Dan Hurley was that flexible.

It would be nice if we did something out of the box to confound the other coach and dictate play….but we won’t. Dan Hurley spent the entire off season deciding how we will play and that’s what we will do…damn the results.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Forgot how exact some people on this board are, I should have said 11.9-13 minutes instead of 15

Interesting…

 

[UConnSwag11]

Is he averse to playing a fresh or is he averse to taking minutes from a captain?

If I’m remembering correctly, he took his time with Bouk, with Sanogo, and played Gaff over Hawkins.

 

[jake14mw]

Is he averse to playing a fresh or is he averse to taking minutes from a captain?

He's averse to taking minutes from the conference's leading scorer.

 

[NJHusky]

He's averse to taking minutes from the conference's leading scorer.

Jackson is the leading scorer? Why the Long threads on his offense?.

 

[jake14mw]

Jackson is the leading scorer? Why the Long threads on his offense?.

Ah, my bad, I read it as taking minutes from the other captain, Sanogo to play Clingan more.

 

[Tyler2Rings]

Putting AJax at 5 would also potentially clear the opponents 5 from the paint, and put one of our best rebounders in position for putbacks or kickouts off misses. Lots to like

 

[yungdowork]

I agree with most of what you said, but I also believe that if/when we have AS and DC both in together, if the opponent was to have their 4-man chase Sanogo out to the 3 point line, then that leaves Donovan one on one with their 5-man.

I think this sounded really good when Clingan was playing a bit more efficiently but it doesn't instill the same confidence in me now. He's shooting 44% from the field over his last 8 games. He's had one game in that stretch where he shot over 50% (he was 2-2). I like Clingan a lot and I think he will be a great Big East center, but he still has a lot of room to refine his game if he wants to consistently outplay Big East centers, especially some of the guys who have been doing it for years. There a LOT of good big men in this league (Kalkbrenner, Nunge, Soriano, Croswell, etc) and it's perfectly normal for a freshman to have some growing pains learning how to play against them.

I think he needs more minutes, but I don't think he's suddenly going to flip the script singlehandedly.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I never said people can't criticize him. There will always be some level of critiquing of coaches decisions. What I get a kick out of though is people acting as though the coaching staff doesn't know what they are doing, or don't see or coach the obvious things. Do people really think that D1 coaches haven't told Adama he needs to handle double teams better or haven't worked with Andre on his offensive game?

You can question the strategy. Why is Sanogo in the post if he can’t pass out of it efficiently?

You notice that Sanogo isn’t a n isolation No. 1 option any longer? They moved away from the dump it in to the big guy and clear out.

By allow Jackson’s man to just sit in the paint and provide pre-help defense, essentially eliminating any ability of the team to go to the basket?

Hurley believes in Jackson. Believes in the work he has done. The critique is that he believes in him too much and he doesn’t see what we see, clearly, that Jackson just can’t score in those situations at an efficient enough level in games. Also. Jackson is uncomfortable with the ball.

Jackson , should be scoring above 1.0 points per shot on that defense. That’s the metric. 6 points on 11 shots is not great efficiency.

 

[JohnFSilver]

you lose a few inches but with Jax’s vertical he can get up way higher than AS. I wish Dan Hurley was that flexible.

It would be nice if we did something out of the box to confound the other coach and dictate play….but we won’t. Dan Hurley spent the entire off season deciding how we will play and that’s what we will do…damn the results.

The team is good. And, hurkey is doing a good job.

Putting AJax at 5 would also potentially clear the opponents 5 from the paint, and put one of our best rebounders in position for putbacks or kickouts off misses. Lots to like

It is just offensively. Sanogo a high post player. Jackson can do what he does best, just create havoc with his energy and his effort.

I know everyone marvels at Jackson’s athleticism, and yes it is off the charts, but his effort level and motor are also of an extreme pace.

Does anyone play as hard as him at constant max speed?

 

[jake14mw]

You can question the strategy...

You can question the strategy. Why is Sanogo in the post if he can’t pass out of it efficiently? Because he is one of the best low post players in the country. Points per shot are extremely good. He is starting to pass out better lately too.

You notice that Sanogo isn’t a n isolation No. 1 option any longer? They moved away from the dump it in to the big guy and clear out. They haven't completely moved away from it (They better not). I think the two main factors why you have seen less of it recently 1) The emergence of Hawkins as such a lethal weapon, and focusing on him being the first option, and 2) Jackson's man clogging the lane

By allow Jackson’s man to just sit in the paint and provide pre-help defense, essentially eliminating any ability of the team to go to the basket? Not sure what you mean by "allowing", but yes I agree, this is the #1 thing Hurley has to solve for coaching wise in my opinion.

Hurley believes in Jackson. Believes in the work he has done. The critique is that he believes in him too much and he doesn’t see what we see, clearly, that Jackson just can’t score in those situations at an efficient enough level in games. Also. Jackson is uncomfortable with the ball. Completely agree with this, they have to help Jackson with this mentally or scheme wise or sit Jackson more

Jackson , should be scoring above 1.0 points per shot on that defense. That’s the metric. 6 points on 11 shots is not great efficiency. Agreed. All players have shots they should be taking and not taking based on points per shot. And for Jackson right now the only shot that has an acceptable points per shot is a dunk. He shouldn't be shooting much at all.

Sorry about my inability to get the mult-quote working.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I think this sounded really good when Clingan was playing a bit more efficiently but it doesn't instill the same confidence in me now. He's shooting 44% from the field over his last 8 games. He's had one game in that stretch where he shot over 50% (he was 2-2). I like Clingan a lot and I think he will be a great Big East center, but he still has a lot of room to refine his game if he wants to consistently outplay Big East centers, especially some of the guys who have been doing it for years. There a LOT of good big men in this league (Kalkbrenner, Nunge, Soriano, Croswell, etc) and it's perfectly normal for a freshman to have some growing pains learning how to play against them.

I think he needs more minutes, but I don't think he's suddenly going to flip the script singlehandedly.

I hear what you're saying and agree with your premise... I am not saying he's gonna play 25 minutes... so to me this is not an attempt to get him starter or "co-starter" kind of minutes.

 

[Dove]

Question...does Adama take threes while standing? Very unique.