Who's Number Two? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Who's Number Two?

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RadyLady said:
The Final Four air is so rarified, very very few teams get there. To dun a team despite these accomplishments is incorrect in my opinion regardless of whether or not they win the last game.
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Back in the good ol' days, at least 6 or 7 teams made it to the final four... sometimes as many as 10... but those days are probably gone forever...teams today just ain't got what it takes... lately there's only been us and maybe one other team make it. What's this world common' to?

I couldn't help myself RL... your "The Final Four....very very few teams get there" line tickled me which in turn lit up my obtuse gene....

Boo
 
BooRadley said:
Back in the good ol' days, at least 6 or 7 teams made it to the final four... sometimes as many as 10... but those days are probably gone forever...teams today just ain't got what it takes... lately there's only been us and maybe one other team make it. What's this world common' to?

I couldn't help myself RL... your "The Final Four....very very few teams get there" line tickled me which in turn lit up my obtuse gene....

Boo
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LOL!
 
Orangutan said:
Everyone back from losing to a callow UNC team in the Sweet 16 that Notre Dame smoked by 25 in conference play.

I don't know how good ND is going to be and I wouldn't say that they're the clear #2, but it's a huge leap of faith to give SC that status, too.
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Baylor lost to TAMU then went 40-0 the next season. That's the beauty of a new season...last season is last season.
 
You brought last season into it by talking about them returning everyone...
 
Orangutan said:
You brought last season into it by talking about them returning everyone...
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Not sure that saying they have all their players back = talking about last season. I am talking about who will be playing, and we all know that one loss at the end of the year does not determine how well you will perform the following season. Baylor loses to TAMU, comes back the next season and goes undefeated. Based on your logic, they would not have won anything the next season.
 
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easttexastrash said:
Not sure that saying they have all their players back = talking about last season. I am talking about who will be playing, and we all know that one loss at the end of the year does not determine how well you will perform the following season. Baylor loses to TAMU, comes back the next season and goes undefeated. Based on your logic, they would not have won anything the next season.
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Presumably the reason you are talking about who is playing is because of how they played before.

As for the rest of it, that's not what I am saying at all. SC could be great this season. I just think it is a little early to call them the obvious #2 because they return everyone.

ND will start 5 HS All-Americans, including 3 top-5 recruits. With that talent and Muffet's demonstrated coaching ability, I think it's foolish to say USC is the definite #2 before the first exhibition.
 
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DaddyChoc said:
name another team that has a better record than that ... lately

damn our HORSE is high
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Okay DaddyChoc... Notre Dame has a single Championship in 2001. Tennessee won the titles in 07 and 08 if I am not mistaken with Candy Parker.
Baylor won it in 05 or 06 with Young and 12 with Griner. (which ever Maryland did not win).

So those both are better than Notre Dame's 1 title.

If you are referencing their Final Fours... they have been impressive. UCONN has been better. But the simple fact remains that they have not won the "big" game which I think was what was pointed out prior to my post in those four years.
 
South Carolina should be number two, but if the polls are determined by last year's finish, it will be ND. I don't see ND replacing McBride and Achonwa this year. Next year, with more experience, they will be a tougher out.
 
Orangutan said:
Presumably the reason you are talking about who is playing is because of how they played before.

As for the rest of it, that's not what I am saying at all. SC could be great this season. I just think it is a little early to call them the obvious #2 because they return everyone.

ND will start 5 HS All-Americans, including 3 top-5 recruits. With that talent and Muffet's demonstrated coaching ability, I think it's foolish to say USC is the definite #2 before the first exhibition.
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I talked about who will be playing because that is who will be playing. And I didn't say they are a definite number 2. I said that is my opinion.
 
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calpedaler said:
ncw_a_baylorloss_gb1_300.jpg
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Sniff sniff. You hurt me feelings. LOL
 
meyers7 said:
I'd say UCONN and ND are again quite a step up from everyone else. SC really hasn't done anything yet to prove they belong with the elite.
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That may come sooner than you think.
 
I knew that. Who else's opinion would it be?

Sorry, I work in a law office so arguing for the sake of it is a way of life.

Fwiw, I would vote SC #2 in a poll. I just think they are in the same tier as a few other schools--ND and TN at least--and we won't know who of those is best until January or so
 
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01Neaggrad02 said:
They have one championship in all the times they played UCONN and none of those wins were for the national title.
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Are we talking about championships or "big games?" I was in the arena in Denver when ND beat UCONN and it seemed like kind of a big win.
 
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UCONN Best coaching staff w/best players/and more coming in the future
SoCar Potential unlimited, but untested in crucial games
ND Lost 2 huge players heart & soul Achonwa & McBride (the true star when Diggins was there) Loyd only legit star now
TXam Has recruited really well especially the last 2 years

The rest not in any special order:

TX Up and coming, recruiting good players/good young coach
UCLA Outstanding recruits coming in, pressure on coaching staff to realize that talent quickly
TN Has talent but also has Holly W., Massengale article quite damning
Baylor Has some outstanding athletes are they also outstanding BB players
WVA Mike Carey has really brought them to another level
L'ville 2nd best coach in WBB with a lot of good recruits, they'll improve quickly
Stanford Great coach in Tara, recruits well, will be back toward top soon
NoCar Even without DD a lot of talent but as in Holly they have Sylvia H. (maybe the worst game coach in WCBB)
PSU Has great young Head Coach but something not working out here
Calif Another great young HC that recruits well on left coast
MichSt Has one of the hidden talents as HC, Suzy Merchant
The OSU Kevin McGuff has really recruited well, can he "finish" though
ISU Bill Fennelly always has a competitive crew
Duke McCallie gets good players to Duke then they get hurt/E. Williams may be most over-rated player in USA
Okla Great coach in Sherry but great players don't want to go to Okla
GA Andy Landers a great recruiter but 2nd worst game coach to Sylvia H.
LSU Caldwell has possible break though group



 
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chrissaran said:
South Carolina should be number two, but if the polls are determined by last year's finish, it will be ND. I don't see ND replacing McBride and Achonwa this year. Next year, with more experience, they will be a tougher out.
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Even if SCU is rated 2 they will lose to ND in the FF.
 
easttexastrash said:
Are we talking about championships or "big games?" I was in the arena in Denver when ND beat UCONN and it seemed like kind of a big win.
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Championships are the ONLY big games at UCONN.
 
01Neaggrad02 said:
They have one national title... in the past four years they have been to four final fours, two of those years they were eliminated in the final four. Two of those years they lost in the championship game. The last two years against UCONN in the games that mattered it was not even close. While they beat up on Maryland... so did we... Muffett cannot get that last 40 minutes to go her way.
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This is not accurate. While it's true that Notre Dame has been to the past 4 final fours, they have reached the NC game three of the four years, not just twice:

2011: Beat UConn in FF, lost to A&M in NC
2012: Beat UConn in FF, lost to Baylor in NC game
2013: Lost to UConn in FF, UConn beat Louisville in NC game
2014: Beat Maryland in FF, lost to UConn in NC game

I agree that Muffet needs to win the NC game and believe she is trying. But FF wins are big wins.
 
I appreciate all of your thoughtful responses to my original query. For all of those who expressed the opinion that "on paper" SC should be #2, I cannot help but agree. But I also can't help but agree with those who opine that once they start playing games for real, ND is a more likely contender for that status. I have little doubt that for the 2015-16 season, once their current Freshman class has a year of experience, ND will reemerge in everyone's mind as our most formidable challenger...the upcoming season is a bit harder to figure. But, while it may be counter-intuitive to say this, coaching in the women's game, especially as it relates to player development, is hugely more uneven than on the men's side. Whether Dawn proves herself in that arena or not truly remains to be seen. On paper, McCallie should have led her recent teams to very lofty levels, but she obviously lacks the ability to take high school All-Americans and transform them into true, bona fide NCAA Div. 1 All-Americans. Muffett, on the other hand, is probably second only to Geno in that regard, and while her team may stumble out of the gate, I expect 'em to be pretty good come tourney time.
 
There certainly are questions about SC based on what I saw in SC's S16 loss to UNC last season. Sometimes really good teams lose in the NCAAs (E8 or FF) because they're not mentally/emotionally ready to win a championship. UConn in '01 is a good example of that. UConn had more talent than ND (DT/SB/SC/AJ) but that UConn team was not ready to win a championship and ND was. It was apparent, however, that UConn in 2002 would be the class of the field and they were. I've watched SC's S16 loss to UNC a few times and I think SC has a ways to go. SC didn't lose that game because they were too young or not ready for the moment (though both may have been true); they lost that game because an undersized UNC was able to expose flaws at both ends. SC's floor spacing was not very good which allowed UNC to double SC's bigger posts. SC does not play with the same pace as UConn or ND and it struggled to score in that game. ND put up 100 points on UNC last season (regular season) while SC lost twice to UNC and scored only 58 in the S16 loss. Will Aja Wilson be the difference-maker? We'll see. Wilson has a lot of talent including the ability to put up points, though Dawn needs to find players who can space the floor and give her room to operate in the lane. As for ranking SC vs ND, I'd probably rank ND ahead of SC preseason just because of ND's recent experience in .
 
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johnnyc said:
I think UConn is alone at the top because no one is going to see a defense like theirs. It could be by the end of the season (after a tough ACC) McGraw will have the team ready (freshmen contributing) but SC I think is ready to make step forward right from the start.
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True, I think SC will take a step forward. But their first big step forward is to get to the level of a FF team (like Maryland or Stanford last year), they didn't even make Elite 8 last year. Then they need to take another step forward to get up to UCONN and ND (really two more to get to UCONN). That's a lot to ask of a team that has never been in that position before.
 
Fightin Choke said:
This is not accurate. While it's true that Notre Dame has been to the past 4 final fours, they have reached the NC game three of the four years, not just twice:

2011: Beat UConn in FF, lost to A&M in NC
2012: Beat UConn in FF, lost to Baylor in NC game
2013: Lost to UConn in FF, UConn beat Louisville in NC game
2014: Beat Maryland in FF, lost to UConn in NC game

I agree that Muffet needs to win the NC game and believe she is trying. But FF wins are big wins.
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Thanks, I agree... I don't know why 2001, 05, 06, 07 and 08 was mentioned! We're talking about "lately" but let the ride on their horse
 
RSHERMVIKES said:
UCONN Best coaching staff w/best players/and more coming in the future
SoCar Potential unlimited, but untested in crucial games
ND Lost 2 huge players heart & soul Achonwa & McBride (the true star when Diggins was there) Loyd only legit star now
TXam Has recruited really well especially the last 2 years

The rest not in any special order:

TX Up and coming, recruiting good players/good young coach
UCLA Outstanding recruits coming in, pressure on coaching staff to realize that talent quickly
TN Has talent but also has Holly W., Massengale article quite damning
Baylor Has some outstanding athletes are they also outstanding BB players
WVA Mike Carey has really brought them to another level
L'ville 2nd best coach in WBB with a lot of good recruits, they'll improve quickly
Stanford Great coach in Tara, recruits well, will be back toward top soon
NoCar Even without DD a lot of talent but as in Holly they have Sylvia H. (maybe the worst game coach in WCBB)
PSU Has great young Head Coach but something not working out here
Calif Another great young HC that recruits well on left coast
MichSt Has one of the hidden talents as HC, Suzy Merchant
The OSU Kevin McGuff has really recruited well, can he "finish" though
ISU Bill Fennelly always has a competitive crew
Duke McCallie gets good players to Duke then they get hurt/E. Williams may be most over-rated player in USA
Okla Great coach in Sherry but great players don't want to go to Okla
GA Andy Landers a great recruiter but 2nd worst game coach to Sylvia H.
LSU Caldwell has possible break though group
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what article about TN/Massengale was quite damning?
 
Icebear said:
Championships are the ONLY big games at UCONN.
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Bzzzzzzt!

ANY game in a single-elimination tournament -- particularly the NCAA tournament -- is a big game.

Cf. March 1998 -- Stanford vs. Harvard (and others not so spectacularly unexpected).
 
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