Who wins this weekend? #6 Notre Dame at #3 U$C, #1 SCAR at #5 fUCLA
- Thread starter TheFarmFan
- Start date
Dillon77
WBB Enthusiast; ND Alum, Fan
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,381
- Reaction Score
- 23,143
For ND, some of those turnovers came from Liatu King, who piled up 5 of them. Koval's 4 came on some ill-advised passes and shuffles of the feet. What was a bit concerning was Miles picking up 5, driving into jammed areas that you mentioned.
That said, this was a big-time event and folks were juiced (pun somewhat intended)...perhaps too much. Miles will look at tape and clean it up. King will learn, as will Koval.
What won't change is ND causing turnovers. It's very hard to get used to the pressure and speed of Hidalgo, Miles and Citron.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,101
- Reaction Score
- 32,782
Lmao…: okay
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2019
- Messages
- 665
- Reaction Score
- 1,627
THAT is two very impressive guards. Hats off to ND.
Watch much basketball?
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2023
- Messages
- 251
- Reaction Score
- 434
ND's shooting was good from the field 46.8% 33.3% from three but the free throw shooting showed they were "juiced" and that has to change. Citron hasn't been shooting well since her return but she finally got going at the end.
The other note is rebounding, USC was supposed to dominate with their height but I was surprised ND out rebounded them 41-38.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2011
- Messages
- 7,695
- Reaction Score
- 25,489
They looked pretty darn good out there today and sadly that conversation will not stop. Whenever they have a tough game or suffer a loss, some commentator is going to bring up how "Miles and Hidalgo" can't function together. "One guard plays better this way, and the other guard plays better that way"
donalddoowop
Who put the Bop in the Bop Shoo Bop?
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 5,529
- Reaction Score
- 20,192
For those who complained about freshman Jana missing layups, did you see how many were missed by the two teams today? Until JuJu adjusts her game to start including her teammates, USC will struggle against the better teams. Iriafen looked like anything but an AA candidate.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2017
- Messages
- 798
- Reaction Score
- 3,836
Not a fan of the physicality of the game.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2011
- Messages
- 7,695
- Reaction Score
- 25,489
Hats off to ND. I was not expecting this outcome. USC just could not get into any type of rhythm. ND, especially Hidalgo and Miles, are game changers. I love how Hidalgo and Miles play off each other. They are a textbook example of how two really great players can coexist out on the court together. Like they have decided, "I am taking over the 1st half and you take over in the 2nd half". Great job out there. USC still a work in progress. They got the talented they just have to learn how to put it all together and play as one unit. They are still a dangerous squad out there.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 7,011
- Reaction Score
- 27,792
USC is almost a repeat of LSU last year. LSU was the media darling preseason, based on portal additions. LSU tried to turn Hailey Van Lith into a pg but when that failed they struggled. USC has a few outstanding players who can beat most other teams by themselves and look great doing it but they have no one to play pg and their ball security was non-existent today. I think the official scorer missed some TO's. It appears that NDame's plan was to double the ball every time it went inside and USC made it easy when their inside players started dribbling whenever they got the ball down low. .
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,294
- Reaction Score
- 4,072
Happy with ND's win! Loved seeing Olivia hitting those 3's and being so hyped! And Hannah commanding this game defensively.
I've always thought Gottlieb's in-game coaching have been mediocre at best. Her offense was Watkins ISO last year, and it is this year so far. Kiki is really having problems with Marshall in the paint. Her and Brink were a great duo because Brink developed her perimeter game. TVO had her best game, but she's not a PG.
Koval impressed me. I was worried about her getting into foul trouble. She did foul out, but the fouls didn't take her out of the game in critical moments. They piled up at the end. She defended Kiki great. I wanted to see her post up Marshall more, but ND's guards were cooking.
I've always thought Gottlieb's in-game coaching have been mediocre at best. Her offense was Watkins ISO last year, and it is this year so far. Kiki is really having problems with Marshall in the paint. Her and Brink were a great duo because Brink developed her perimeter game. TVO had her best game, but she's not a PG.
Koval impressed me. I was worried about her getting into foul trouble. She did foul out, but the fouls didn't take her out of the game in critical moments. They piled up at the end. She defended Kiki great. I wanted to see her post up Marshall more, but ND's guards were cooking.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,537
- Reaction Score
- 20,666
What offensive system?
Watkins’ relentless pursuit of her own points basically negates Iriafen’s potential value on offense.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 1, 2020
- Messages
- 6,829
- Reaction Score
- 20,443
I haven't heard that in the media. I've only seen this discussed on the BY General board.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,294
- Reaction Score
- 4,072
Also, Citron has gotten off to a slow start this season offensively. This game she had a good reason to be off because so much energy was spent defending Watkins. She's coming off an injury. Citron and Westbeld were playing at a high level last season. This team can get so much better.
Juju scored 8 points in the final 2.5 minutes when USC was already down 21. I wasn’t really impressed. Her game is mainly iso ball, and she got her pocket picked or dribbled into a crowd a number of times.
I’d argue she’s one of the best players in the open court that I’ve seen. But in the half court she doesn’t really understand how to move off the ball to generate looks. And the coaching doesn’t help that. So many dismal offensive sets that didn’t generate anything beyond a turnover or forced shot by usc.
Interested to see the final tally of the USC, ND, UCONN round robin.
I’d argue she’s one of the best players in the open court that I’ve seen. But in the half court she doesn’t really understand how to move off the ball to generate looks. And the coaching doesn’t help that. So many dismal offensive sets that didn’t generate anything beyond a turnover or forced shot by usc.
Interested to see the final tally of the USC, ND, UCONN round robin.
Dillon77
WBB Enthusiast; ND Alum, Fan
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,381
- Reaction Score
- 23,143
I agree with that as one point, but there's another: in the past two years, Citron was the number #2 option off the point guard - first, Miles, then Hidalgo. This year, she's the third and she's coming off time lost to an injury. Ivey, Citron, Miles and Hidalgo need to work to get Citron incorporated....which they will as time goes on.
Then, Westbeld comes back.
Like you said, though, Citron adds value in other ways. It just isn't USC's ineffectual half-court sets that did them in -- Citron made Watkins work, hard, harder, hardest. And Watkins lost focus...which is when ND took off. She mostly scored unsettled open-court situations (which she's really good at) or during "garbage time," to paraphrase Marv Albert. And Citron wasn't in during the last two minuets of the game. Pro scouts will note that defensive effort by Soni.
Last edited:
Yeah. I will say similarly LSU kinda overachieved and won a natty. They easily coulda lost to Utah and ended up with a weird matchup to make the final 4. But they earned a title. The following year they had a ton of expectations and never quite fit. I still actually think they had a good year last year making the elite 8. I think usc overachieved last year, winning the pac and getting to the elite 8. I also feel like their ivy seniors were so selfless and good fits. I underestimated this. I thought their freshman were more athletic and skilled. I think they need tvo and their freshman point Heckel to really lead. Juju almost can't help to be ultra aggressive and I'm not sure if Gotlieb needs to somewhat reel her in. It's just tough when players aren't in rhythm and not sure when they'll get the ball. I even saw it a tiny bit on the Notre Dame side, liatu king waiting for the pass off the pop. But overall they did better getting points in transition and off rebounds.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2022
- Messages
- 6,822
- Reaction Score
- 41,322
I'm confused. Did you think I was criticizing ND? Sorry to disappoint, but USC should be embarrassed by giving up those 17 steals. Sure, ND could have blown them out even worse, but this is early in the season. They'll be a handful for any team they meet all season. They should be #2 or #3, and USC should probably drop to #10 or below.
- Joined
- May 1, 2020
- Messages
- 6,829
- Reaction Score
- 20,443
Can you clarify how this response relates to my post about Smith being out of the game?
It’s easy to overlook in the wake of Citron’s defense on Juju and Hidalgo/Miles controlling the game, but I was very impressed with ND’s frontcourt duo of King and Koval. King battled foul trouble but when she was in the game she was an energizer bunny and bothered Iriafen defensively. Her midrange buckets also helped break open the floor. I think Liatu King could be a high-reward second-round draft pick for someone.
Early on I was frustrated by Koval’s rebounding, but as the game went on I was impressed by her defensive force. She was consistently in the right position and helped prevent a number of easy looks at the rim. She wasn’t a major factor offensively but did show a nice touch when she scored. She gives Notre Dame a target in the paint who can wall up defensively.
Overall, ND is as good as I thought they’d be. Hidalgo and Miles play well together and most of the pieces around them are good enough to be #1 or #2 options on other top 25 teams. If they can get Westbeld and Karlen back healthy this team may be the national title favorite.
Right now they’re as good as anyone in the country, but something ND does need to look out for is how to better integrate their star guards in sets. Hidalgo and Miles were much better together in transition than halfcourt — but I also think ND’s defense and pace are going to allow them to play in transition almost at will. USC’s defense is also very good which was a factor today.
Great win for the Irish. Is this Ivey’s first top-3 win at ND?
Early on I was frustrated by Koval’s rebounding, but as the game went on I was impressed by her defensive force. She was consistently in the right position and helped prevent a number of easy looks at the rim. She wasn’t a major factor offensively but did show a nice touch when she scored. She gives Notre Dame a target in the paint who can wall up defensively.
Overall, ND is as good as I thought they’d be. Hidalgo and Miles play well together and most of the pieces around them are good enough to be #1 or #2 options on other top 25 teams. If they can get Westbeld and Karlen back healthy this team may be the national title favorite.
Right now they’re as good as anyone in the country, but something ND does need to look out for is how to better integrate their star guards in sets. Hidalgo and Miles were much better together in transition than halfcourt — but I also think ND’s defense and pace are going to allow them to play in transition almost at will. USC’s defense is also very good which was a factor today.
Great win for the Irish. Is this Ivey’s first top-3 win at ND?
I think Hidalgo gets a generous whistle on defense. And she is allowed to be more aggressive than other defensive players. She even gets away with hand checking. I hope refs whistle her when UConn plays Notre dame. Because if they don’t. That crowd will explode. And it will be a long day for the huskies.