Who will be better next year? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Who will be better next year?

huskeynut said:
Every top ranked team graduates stars/ key contributors. Every team goes through chemistry changes. So the real question is: why do the top teams stay on top year after year? Sure having top talent is a requirement. But in reality, its the head coach and assistant coaches.

Does anyone doubt that Stanford, ND, SC and UConn will be primary contenders? Of course not. Tara, Muffet, Dawn and Geno will have their teams ready. Other perennial contenders, Baylor, MD, Louisville will be there. Newcomers Mississippi State, Oregon State and maybe Oregon will be ready.
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You have 4 coaches in the first part of your mention of superior coaching and you include Dawn with Tara, Muffet and Geno. Obviously you're entitled to group anyone you care to but I would put the Baylor coach in that group and take Dawn and move her to the other grouping. I don't think Dawn matches up to that group. She's had a small run and is obviously a good recruiter but I think she's riding A'ja to their recent success and that'll slow up a bit once A'ja is gone, while I think Kim (as much as I'm not her biggest fan) is a better coach and has had sustained success at Baylor.
 
stwainfan said:
Yes she has also had key injuries Harrison, Russell and others.
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Unfortunately, that does happen in all programs. The inconsistency when at full strength is what most people recognize.
 
DefenseBB said:
Rueck, I like and think he can coach but where is his talent? He needs to get some.
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Pivec and Corosdale from his last 2 recruiting classes are his highest rated recruits to date. Weisner and Wiese weren't exactly blue chippers and Hamblin was probably about a 1 star, if there is such a thing.
 
Buzzyboy said:
I think that it's just an illusion that all the returning players are going to make SIGNIFICANT improvement.
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Sure, not every player, but it's hard to predict who will make a big jump. Every year there are some surprises.
 
Buzzyboy said:
The improvements from sophomore to junior and junior to senior years are normally very subtle, if at all.
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That's totally variable. McCall and McPhee at Stanford were both fairly disappointing their Fr. and Soph year relative to their recruiting rankings, then both made a BIG jump their Jr. year.

Plum at UW was a really good player her first 3 years, but she made a quantum leap as a Sr.
 
Buzzyboy said:
You have 4 coaches in the first part of your mention of superior coaching and you include Dawn with Tara, Muffet and Geno. Obviously you're entitled to group anyone you care to but I would put the Baylor coach in that group and take Dawn and move her to the other grouping. I don't think Dawn matches up to that group. She's had a small run and is obviously a good recruiter but I think she's riding A'ja to their recent success and that'll slow up a bit once A'ja is gone, while I think Kim (as much as I'm not her biggest fan) is a better coach and has had sustained success at Baylor.
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what do you mean a small run? LOL Dawn has led this cellar dweller team to four straight SEC regular season title, 3 straight tourney titles, and a National Championship and now is on the radar of every top recruit nation wide. Kim may have 2 Nattys but what has she done recently?? Underachieved especially with that loaded team she had this year and made an epic collapse. Kim has been coaching far longer then Dawn and Dawn has already made SC a national powerhouse. Yes losing a player like A'ja won't be easy but if SC lands recruits like DeCosta, Smith, Nelson-Ododa or Zarielle Green to go along with the best pg in the 2018 class Destanni Henderson you expect them to fall of??? [mod edit]
 
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huskeynut said:
Every top ranked team graduates stars/ key contributors. Every team goes through chemistry changes. So the real question is: why do the top teams stay on top year after year? Sure having top talent is a requirement. But in reality, its the head coach and assistant coaches.

Does anyone doubt that Stanford, ND, SC and UConn will be primary contenders? Of course not. Tara, Muffet, Dawn and Geno will have their teams ready. Other perennial contenders, Baylor, MD, Louisville will be there. Newcomers Mississippi State, Oregon State and maybe Oregon will be ready.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
To further counter the notion that upperclassmen don't tend to improve much, Oregon St. had FOUR Jr. or Sr. that made notable improvements--Wiese, Gulic, Brown and Orum. Four from 1 team in 1 year! I'd say that pretty much blows apart that theory. Partly it's a matter of opportunity--Brown and Orum hadn't played many minutes before this year. But Wiese was a 4 year starter and Gulic has been in the rotation her entire career.

Or what about UConn's Chong? Did pretty much nothing for 3 years and then became a starter and significant contributor her last year. I'm not gonna try to go through every team's roster, but I think this kind of thing is more the rule than the exception.
 
SCspur said:
what do you mean a small run? LOL Dawn has led this cellar dweller team to four straight SEC regular season title, 3 straight tourney titles, and a National Championship and now is on the radar of every top recruit nation wide. Kim may have 2 Nattys but what has she done recently?? Underachieved especially with that loaded team she had this year and made an epic collapse. Kim has been coaching far longer then Dawn and Dawn has already made SC a national powerhouse. Yes losing a player like A'ja won't be easy but if SC lands recruits like DeCosta, Smith, Nelson-Ododa or Zarielle Green to go along with the best pg in the 2018 class Destanni Henderson you expect them to fall of???
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Mulkey and Dawn both became head coaches in 2000. Mulkey inherited a team that was 7-20 the season before and had several losing losing seasons before that. Kim won her first national championship in 2005 and has won at least 15 Big 12 conference championships at Baylor. The past few years have been disappointing for Kim but let's not get carried away with this what-have-you-done-for-me-lately nonsense. Kim has a second national championships which is one more than several excellent coaches (Muffet McGraw, Brenda Frese, Gary Blair, Sylvia Hatchell, and now Dawn Staley). Those other coaches will tell you it's not so easy to win that 2nd championship and Tara will tell you it's not so easy to win a 3rd.
 
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:cool:
 
nwhoopfan said:
Pivec and Corosdale from his last 2 recruiting classes are his highest rated recruits to date. Weisner and Wiese weren't exactly blue chippers and Hamblin was probably about a 1 star, if there is such a thing.
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Full disclosure is right after I typed that post I went to HoopGurlz to see who for 2016, 17 and 18 he signed! Washington last year and Goodman in fall also. Given his "coach up" ability I am hopeful for both you and him! :)
 
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UConnCat said:
Maybe put down the pipe yourself.

Mulkey and Dawn both became head coaches in 2000. Mulkey inherited a team that was 7-20 the season before and had several losing losing seasons before that. Kim won her first national championship in 2005 and has won at least 15 Big 12 conference championships at Baylor. The past few years have been disappointing for Kim but let's not get carried away with this what-have-you-done-for-me-lately nonsense. Kim has a second national championships which is one more than several excellent coaches (Muffet McGraw, Brenda Frese, Gary Blair, Sylvia Hatchell, and now Dawn Staley). Those other coaches will tell you it's not so easy to win that 2nd championship and Tara will tell you it's not so easy to win a 3rd.
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I don't think I was talking to you but since you wanted to butt in Mulkey became the head coach and a University where talent is extremely rich. Dawn became a head coach in philly to give lesser talent kids in who were less fortunate. Now she came down to a University where basketball was completely looked over and now has a fan base and support like no one I would say that's a huge achievement. Kim may have started as a head coach in 2000 but she was an assistant long before then at LA Tech so she's been in the business for a while.
 
SCspur said:
I don't think I was talking to you but since you wanted to butt in Mulkey became the head coach and a University where talent is extremely rich. Dawn became a head coach in philly to give lesser talent kids in who were less fortunate. Now she came down to a University where basketball was completely looked over and now has a fan base and support like no one I would say that's a huge achievement. Kim may have started as a head coach in 2000 but she was an assistant long before then at LA Tech so she's been in the business for a while.
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I'm not aware of a board rule that says I can't join a conversation. There is nothing in my post that belittles anything Dawn has accomplished. My train to work passes the Temple campus every day so I know how difficult it is to win there. At South Carolina Dawn has done a remarkable job taking advantage of some good in-state talent and building a championship team.

I disagree with how your post seemed to belittle the accomplishments of Kim Mulkey. She also took over a program that was a perennial loser and won a national championship in 5 years. She then won a second championship 7 years later, an accomplishment that has eluded other elite coaches. She too has built a large and loyal fan base out of nothing. Building something out of nothing didn't begin with Dawn Staley.
 
SCspur said:
I don't think I was talking to you but since you wanted to butt in Mulkey became the head coach and a University where talent is extremely rich. Dawn became a head coach in philly to give lesser talent kids in who were less fortunate. Now she came down to a University where basketball was completely looked over and now has a fan base and support like no one I would say that's a huge achievement. Kim may have started as a head coach in 2000 but she was an assistant long before then at LA Tech so she's been in the business for a while.
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In watching this dialogue, I actually think these two have had remarkably similar careers. Mulkey herself was a great point guard on LaTech team that won an AIAW title and then the 1st NCAA Title as well as 2 Final 4s. She was also on the 1984 Gold Medal Olympic team. Does this sound familiar yet? There was no pro basketball per se so Kim became an assistant while Dawn play WNBA. As Kim paid her dues, she earned a Power 5 HC while Dawn did have to take a lesser HC as she hadn't earned the right yet. Dawn did a good job at Temple and earned SC role. Kim had to build the BU program in the Texas shadow and soon eclipsed Jody C! Kim's run of Big12 titles is phenomenal and if Dawn can do the same that would be as remarkable. Let's keep in mind Kim has been nationally relevant much longer and done this with numerous rosters. Dawn has yet to do this with a full roster turnover (yet). I do like Dawn and laud her wanting to coach under Geno and work with the National team these many years and get better as a coach which she has.

To me, these are mirror images albeit 10-11 years apart. Only difference is Dawn hasn't mastered jacket tossing yet...:rolleyes:
 
DefenseBB said:
To me, these are mirror images albeit 10-11 years apart. Only difference is Dawn hasn't mastered jacket tossing yet...:rolleyes:
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Dawn really needs to step it up w/ her wardrobe too if she's going to rival Kim. Needs some leopard print pleather pants or something.
 
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