Who will be better next year?

[triaddukefan]

And Duke lost to Vanderbilt despite being a better team than Virginia.

 

[Vowelguy]

And Duke lost to Vanderbilt despite being a better team than Virginia.

Stone Cold

 

[huskeynut]

Every top ranked team graduates stars/ key contributors. Every team goes through chemistry changes. So the real question is: why do the top teams stay on top year after year? Sure having top talent is a requirement. But in reality, its the head coach and assistant coaches.

Does anyone doubt that Stanford, ND, SC and UConn will be primary contenders? Of course not. Tara, Muffet, Dawn and Geno will have their teams ready. Other perennial contenders, Baylor, MD, Louisville will be there. Newcomers Mississippi State, Oregon State and maybe Oregon will be ready.

 

[Charliebball]

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I didn't see the conditioning issue with respect to Holmes. And as far as Boothe only what I have read and her play in the Jordan Classic. She seems to be an extraordinary talent but what I read hints at unspoken problems. But in any case I think Texas is improving. I have never been overly impressed with Lang, especially her offense and White may be an effective replacement.

I thought Holmes showed remarkable improvement as the season went on last year.......if handled properly she should be an All American in the next year or two..........Boothe is a talent but she is seriously in need of adult supervision to succeed at the next level

 

[LasVegasYank]

Most assume the same level of play from returning players.

And yet, look what happened to UConn this past season. Gabby and Pheesa (not to mention KLS) both upped their game significantly.

Why can't other team's players do the same?

The answer is simple.......UConn can and UCan't.

 

[SCspur]

?

She basically said the team wasn't even worried about Bama who beat the twice previously. That's plays a huge part in coaching and disciplined.

 

[DefenseBB]

[/QUOTE]

UConn, Baylor, SC, ND, and Stanford will be the front runners for the FF next year again. Want to know why? Because each team has elite level coaches who understand the game and get the best out of all their players and has phenomenal coaching staffs.

I have no reason to believe next year will be any different just because teams picked up a couple talented players. Coaching and Defense wins championships.

Well, I agree with your premise that the "front runners" and perennial powers all have great coaching and staffs. Your qualification of who is great is something I have an issue with.
Coaching is about 3 things- Recruiting, Program management, coaching-both practice and in-game.

We, as fans, only see 2 of the 3 so those become glaring. Program management is coaching staff, school support for academics, media, travel, OOC, school acclimation.

Texas was a dumpster fire in the last 5 years of Jody C reign and what Gail G brought. Karen righted the ship and has them back in national relevance. She has exactly mirrored Dawn's career in terms of coaching. I believe it was just this past season many were criticizing Dawn's lack of in-game skills vs.. Duke, Tenn and to a lesser extent UConn. Yet some how Dawn won a title.

You have to have the horses and know a little bit about scheme and adjustments to win consistently.
I think Close has also done a very good job at UCLA and will continue to get better. Neighbors I think was a one trick poney. He will not be successful at Arkansas. Just look at the dearth of talent at UW now.
Rueck, I like and think he can coach but where is his talent? He needs to get some.
Tenn is curious in that they too have 2 of the 3, just not coaching. To say Holly had her moments (she did) and denigrate Aston and Close by not saying they had their moments also is a bit unjust.
Look at Jim Boeheim at Syracuse, he was able to recruit and had been knocked as not being able to coach yet by being having talent, getting into big games, he learned to coach and eventually win a NC.
The same could occur for Aston and Close just like it did for Staley.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Right so right. Also in watching UT DD plays to the end without taking off plays. Her effort and talent are not in question. Holly's poor coaching, poor use of the team's skills, poor game management, poor understanding of offense, and her inability to vett her talent in order to create a team instead of a bunch of head cases is Tenn's problem.

I actually think that a lot of the type coaching Holly is doing was evident in, at least the last years of Pat Summit's tenure there. I don't think she was ever a really good offensive coach, relying on having much more talented players than her opponents and I concede she was probably appreciably better in motivating her team.

 

[Buzzyboy]

It's easy to look at who is leaving and make assumptions that team x, y and z will be a bit down. What this doesn't take into consideration at all is players already on those teams making significant improvements. You can't ignore that. It's always been the backbone of college sports. next (wo)man up. Star players are always moving on, yet life continues. Now some schools are going to face more of a challenge replacing certain players than others. But some schools seem to stay near the top regardless of who is on the roster. To provide a few specific examples, I certainly think Washington is going to have a precipitous drop (there's just no way they can replace the production of Plum and Osahor), but I think Stanford and Oregon St. will both be better next year than many are expecting.

I think that it's just an illusion that all the returning players are going to make SIGNIFICANT improvement. Sure, it happens to an extent but not to the point where it is a given that it'll make a significant change. There is the sophomore jump where a number of players, based on their developing some maturity and adapting to college life and to a system that was new to them as freshman do show noticeable improvement. It's not often that the sophomore jump is a radical jump, even for the very really talented players but then again, sometimes there's the Napheesa, Katy Lou exception. The improvements from sophomore to junior and junior to senior years are normally very subtle, if at all.

 

[Buzzyboy]

So what you are saying is DD didn't perform at Kelsey Plum's level or even Kelsey Mitchell's level so by not dominating to a level we think she should be at, she is detrimental to her team?
That's the evidence you are "rationalizing" as the reason? If it is, my only retort is "Check please"...

What might be said is that with the talent that everyone knows Tennessee has and has had, with the influx of a player self proclaimed as the best, wouldn't you think that they'd have something to show for their efforts? I don't claim to follow Tennessee very vehemently but I do remember hearing where she (DD) has had a ridiculous amount of turnovers and it seems that the recklessness of her type of play hasn't helped but probably hurt the Vol's, at least a decent amount of the time. The fact that Tennessee stunned some teams and then lost to mediocre teams seems to point to the recklessness and haphazard style of play they put out and I'm under the impression that DD personifies that style of play.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Every top ranked team graduates stars/ key contributors. Every team goes through chemistry changes. So the real question is: why do the top teams stay on top year after year? Sure having top talent is a requirement. But in reality, its the head coach and assistant coaches.

Does anyone doubt that Stanford, ND, SC and UConn will be primary contenders? Of course not. Tara, Muffet, Dawn and Geno will have their teams ready. Other perennial contenders, Baylor, MD, Louisville will be there. Newcomers Mississippi State, Oregon State and maybe Oregon will be ready.

You have 4 coaches in the first part of your mention of superior coaching and you include Dawn with Tara, Muffet and Geno. Obviously you're entitled to group anyone you care to but I would put the Baylor coach in that group and take Dawn and move her to the other grouping. I don't think Dawn matches up to that group. She's had a small run and is obviously a good recruiter but I think she's riding A'ja to their recent success and that'll slow up a bit once A'ja is gone, while I think Kim (as much as I'm not her biggest fan) is a better coach and has had sustained success at Baylor.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Yes she has also had key injuries Harrison, Russell and others.

Unfortunately, that does happen in all programs. The inconsistency when at full strength is what most people recognize.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Rueck, I like and think he can coach but where is his talent? He needs to get some.

Pivec and Corosdale from his last 2 recruiting classes are his highest rated recruits to date. Weisner and Wiese weren't exactly blue chippers and Hamblin was probably about a 1 star, if there is such a thing.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I think that it's just an illusion that all the returning players are going to make SIGNIFICANT improvement.

Sure, not every player, but it's hard to predict who will make a big jump. Every year there are some surprises.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The improvements from sophomore to junior and junior to senior years are normally very subtle, if at all.

That's totally variable. McCall and McPhee at Stanford were both fairly disappointing their Fr. and Soph year relative to their recruiting rankings, then both made a BIG jump their Jr. year.

Plum at UW was a really good player her first 3 years, but she made a quantum leap as a Sr.

 

[SCspur]

You have 4 coaches in the first part of your mention of superior coaching and you include Dawn with Tara, Muffet and Geno. Obviously you're entitled to group anyone you care to but I would put the Baylor coach in that group and take Dawn and move her to the other grouping. I don't think Dawn matches up to that group. She's had a small run and is obviously a good recruiter but I think she's riding A'ja to their recent success and that'll slow up a bit once A'ja is gone, while I think Kim (as much as I'm not her biggest fan) is a better coach and has had sustained success at Baylor.

what do you mean a small run? LOL Dawn has led this cellar dweller team to four straight SEC regular season title, 3 straight tourney titles, and a National Championship and now is on the radar of every top recruit nation wide. Kim may have 2 Nattys but what has she done recently?? Underachieved especially with that loaded team she had this year and made an epic collapse. Kim has been coaching far longer then Dawn and Dawn has already made SC a national powerhouse. Yes losing a player like A'ja won't be easy but if SC lands recruits like DeCosta, Smith, Nelson-Ododa or Zarielle Green to go along with the best pg in the 2018 class Destanni Henderson you expect them to fall of??? [mod edit]

 

[SCspur]

Every top ranked team graduates stars/ key contributors. Every team goes through chemistry changes. So the real question is: why do the top teams stay on top year after year? Sure having top talent is a requirement. But in reality, its the head coach and assistant coaches.

Does anyone doubt that Stanford, ND, SC and UConn will be primary contenders? Of course not. Tara, Muffet, Dawn and Geno will have their teams ready. Other perennial contenders, Baylor, MD, Louisville will be there. Newcomers Mississippi State, Oregon State and maybe Oregon will be ready.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[nwhoopfan]

To further counter the notion that upperclassmen don't tend to improve much, Oregon St. had FOUR Jr. or Sr. that made notable improvements--Wiese, Gulic, Brown and Orum. Four from 1 team in 1 year! I'd say that pretty much blows apart that theory. Partly it's a matter of opportunity--Brown and Orum hadn't played many minutes before this year. But Wiese was a 4 year starter and Gulic has been in the rotation her entire career.

Or what about UConn's Chong? Did pretty much nothing for 3 years and then became a starter and significant contributor her last year. I'm not gonna try to go through every team's roster, but I think this kind of thing is more the rule than the exception.

 

[UConnCat]

what do you mean a small run? LOL Dawn has led this cellar dweller team to four straight SEC regular season title, 3 straight tourney titles, and a National Championship and now is on the radar of every top recruit nation wide. Kim may have 2 Nattys but what has she done recently?? Underachieved especially with that loaded team she had this year and made an epic collapse. Kim has been coaching far longer then Dawn and Dawn has already made SC a national powerhouse. Yes losing a player like A'ja won't be easy but if SC lands recruits like DeCosta, Smith, Nelson-Ododa or Zarielle Green to go along with the best pg in the 2018 class Destanni Henderson you expect them to fall of???

Mulkey and Dawn both became head coaches in 2000. Mulkey inherited a team that was 7-20 the season before and had several losing losing seasons before that. Kim won her first national championship in 2005 and has won at least 15 Big 12 conference championships at Baylor. The past few years have been disappointing for Kim but let's not get carried away with this what-have-you-done-for-me-lately nonsense. Kim has a second national championships which is one more than several excellent coaches (Muffet McGraw, Brenda Frese, Gary Blair, Sylvia Hatchell, and now Dawn Staley). Those other coaches will tell you it's not so easy to win that 2nd championship and Tara will tell you it's not so easy to win a 3rd.

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[DefenseBB]

View attachment 21917

OMG... again with the cats!

 

[DefenseBB]

Pivec and Corosdale from his last 2 recruiting classes are his highest rated recruits to date. Weisner and Wiese weren't exactly blue chippers and Hamblin was probably about a 1 star, if there is such a thing.

Full disclosure is right after I typed that post I went to HoopGurlz to see who for 2016, 17 and 18 he signed! Washington last year and Goodman in fall also. Given his "coach up" ability I am hopeful for both you and him!

 

[SCspur]

Maybe put down the pipe yourself.

Mulkey and Dawn both became head coaches in 2000. Mulkey inherited a team that was 7-20 the season before and had several losing losing seasons before that. Kim won her first national championship in 2005 and has won at least 15 Big 12 conference championships at Baylor. The past few years have been disappointing for Kim but let's not get carried away with this what-have-you-done-for-me-lately nonsense. Kim has a second national championships which is one more than several excellent coaches (Muffet McGraw, Brenda Frese, Gary Blair, Sylvia Hatchell, and now Dawn Staley). Those other coaches will tell you it's not so easy to win that 2nd championship and Tara will tell you it's not so easy to win a 3rd.

I don't think I was talking to you but since you wanted to butt in Mulkey became the head coach and a University where talent is extremely rich. Dawn became a head coach in philly to give lesser talent kids in who were less fortunate. Now she came down to a University where basketball was completely looked over and now has a fan base and support like no one I would say that's a huge achievement. Kim may have started as a head coach in 2000 but she was an assistant long before then at LA Tech so she's been in the business for a while.

 

[UConnCat]

I don't think I was talking to you but since you wanted to butt in Mulkey became the head coach and a University where talent is extremely rich. Dawn became a head coach in philly to give lesser talent kids in who were less fortunate. Now she came down to a University where basketball was completely looked over and now has a fan base and support like no one I would say that's a huge achievement. Kim may have started as a head coach in 2000 but she was an assistant long before then at LA Tech so she's been in the business for a while.

I'm not aware of a board rule that says I can't join a conversation. There is nothing in my post that belittles anything Dawn has accomplished. My train to work passes the Temple campus every day so I know how difficult it is to win there. At South Carolina Dawn has done a remarkable job taking advantage of some good in-state talent and building a championship team.

I disagree with how your post seemed to belittle the accomplishments of Kim Mulkey. She also took over a program that was a perennial loser and won a national championship in 5 years. She then won a second championship 7 years later, an accomplishment that has eluded other elite coaches. She too has built a large and loyal fan base out of nothing. Building something out of nothing didn't begin with Dawn Staley.

 

[Vowelguy]

I don't think I was talking to you but since you wanted to butt in

chill out dude