Who is the Uconn GOAT? It's all in the numbers...maybe. | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Who is the Uconn GOAT? It's all in the numbers...maybe.

EricLA said:
Maya accomplished the most "personally" for stats as a player. Stewie has those 4 NC's. BUT IMHO Dee won 3 NC's, and did it 2 years with far less than anyone else. She made everyone around her so much better. For me, she's my UCONN GOAT...
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I agree with the above in bold sentiment-- but imo the Notre Dame teams were quite a bit superior to the teams DT went through her jr and sr years. Additionally, I think that Oklahoma team DT faced her soph year was better than the jr and sr year teams.

And imo the team Maya/Tina beat-- in Stanford was better than the DT teams she faced in her jr and sr years.

I have Stewie 1-- DT- 2- Maya - 3.
 
cbraarj said:
If Taurasi played in Mayas spot or Stewies spot. Those teams would've still won NCs. Taurasi could've won in 2011. Mayas Sr. year. I don't see Maya and Stewie winning in 03 or 04. Diana made those players better! She made Maria a better player. She made Moore Battle better. She made the 3 freshmen better Turner Strother and Crocket better. What she also gave those teams more than anything is confidence that they can do it. They can beat anyone no matter who they were playing. The last thing she passed on to her teams is her Swagger! The confidence and arrogance that she played with were off the charts and those young players bought into it!
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IMO this isn't a far comparison. The teams with DT in her senior year didn't have many ball-handling guards. I think it was just 2 - DT and MC. Thus they were built differently. If you take out the best ball handler -- - you have no rather ball handler in that lineup. Those UCONN teams weren't build for much depth - especially ball handlers.

The Stewie led teams had great depth. And as we know once she left - they no longer won titles.

Get Stewart a good guard one that is all-round good -- and then throw Stewie in the lineup, they win also in 02-03 and 03-04. After all, who can we say from the prior teams of Tennessee, Minnesota, and Texas was going to shut down Stewart? And the problems with those teams back then was getting wiped out inside.

With Stewart she would take away quite a bit of the insde and on offense she low posts allowing Conlon, Strother, the good-guard I mention above in the fantasy scenario and even Turner open looks from the perimeter. The defense that Stewart and Jess Moore could play against other teams - it would have been tremendous.
 
and one said:
Which is the better car, a 1985 Ford Escort or a brand new Porche? You may think the Escort is the better car, but there is a real answer here and it isn't the Ford Escort.

Take 3 great wines, same region and grape, each from a great vintage. Is one better than the others? It would come down to nuances of personal taste that might not even be definable. Or 3 great wines of different regions, grapes and styles. Is the great Bordeaux better than a great Reisling or great Champagne? A matter of taste. You'd be damn lucky to drink any of the three.

D, Maya, Stewie. If you had to pick one to start your team, you could pick one randomly and never have to look back to second guess yourself. For me personally I'd take Maya over D and it is a dead tie between Maya and Stewie. But man would it be sweet to have D on my team.
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I'd give the edge to DT. I just look at Maya's senior year - her last game in which ND beat UCONN on the 4th try. Maya is what we'd all expect-- her greatness showed through-- UNSTOPPABLE - scoring 36 points.

But as was the case - it's harder for her to get others involved per her style of play. That's why Tiffany scored 4 and Bria 10. But I get it- we can also say because Dolson got into foul trouble she took her team as far as could realistically go.
 
Carnac said:
No we all don't. I never saw Ruth or Williams play. But I did see Mays and Clemente play in person, and play during their prime. Mays is my all time favorite player........period!! Both were 5 point players. There was nothing Roberto did or could do that Willie couldn't or didn't. Who was best between these two, who's to say. You could win with either one of them, and they both could hurt you.

During my little league playing days, from time to time, would try making Mays' outfield "basket catches" during practice sessions. My success rate was about 50%. I got hit in the head, mouth and chest trying. I never had the stones to try one during a game. If I did and dropped it, I'd probably never see the field again for THAT coach. I NEVER saw Mays drop one. He always did it nonchalantly, and made it look easy. It wasn't.

The great ones make what they do look easy. I saw many of the great ones, Koufax, Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Wilver "Pops" Stargell, Stan Musial, etc. According to Statcast, Stargell is one of only 4 players to hit a ball out of Dodger Stadium, and he did it twice. The others: Mark McGwire, Mike Piazza, and Giancarlo Stanton. One of Stargell's bombs traveled 506 feet, and is probably still rolling.

I'll agree that Clemente was one of the best. All of MLB liked and respected him. But the jury is still out on who was THE best. That's subjective. Everyone has their favorites, and nothing/no one is going to change their minds.
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From an emotional viewpoint my heart belongs to Roberto Clemente. I grew up in Pittsburgh and was of the right age to become a baseball fan in the mid 60's, so to me nobody played like Clemente. I was lucky enough to see him in person in a couple games at Forbes Field. Forbes Field for those who are not familiar had a very deep right field (450') and there was a blind corner. In one game which I was able to attend there was a hit into that corner, Clemente chased it down and with no clear sight line threw a perfect strike into home plate to get the runner out. Speaking of Willie Mays, I read that early on in Clemente's tenure with the Pirates, Clemente threw him out on a long throw from right field and when Mays was asked why he went, he responded that he didn't think anyone could throw him out. Besides both being great players they both employed the basket catch. One more connection, which would have made for one hell of an outfield (defensively and offensively) was that Clemente was very nearly signed to the Giants but the Dodgers offered a higher bonus and got him and then hid him away in Montreal on the farm team for a season. Branch Rickey Jr. (who had recently left the Dodger's organization) then stole him away for Pittsburgh as the Dodger's had left him unprotected.
 
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#12in21 said:
From an emotional viewpoint my heart belongs to Roberto Clemente. I grew up in Pittsburgh and was of the right age to become a baseball fan in the mid 60's, so to me nobody played like Clemente. I was lucky enough to see him in person in a couple games at Forbes Field. Forbes Field for those who are not familiar had a very deep right field (450') and there was a blind corner. In one game which I was able to attend there was a hit into that corner, Clemente chased it down and with no clear sight line threw a perfect strike into home plate to get the runner out. Speaking of Willie Mays, I read that early on in Clemente's tenure with the Pirates, Clemente threw him out on a long throw from right field and when Mays was asked why he went, he responded that he didn't think anyone could throw him out. Besides both being great players they both employed the basket catch. One more connection, which would have made for one hell of an outfield (defensively and offensively) was that Clemente was very nearly signed to the Giants but the Dodgers offered a higher bonus and got him and then hid him away in Montreal on the farm team for a season. Branch Rickey Jr. (who had recently left the Dodger's organization) then stole him away for Pittsburgh as the Dodger's had left him unprotected.
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Mays must have been full of himself. NOBODY ran on Clemente!! He had a reputation all around the league. During a game at Dodger Stadium, a Dodger batter hit a line drive over first base and down the line. It had double written all over it.

Clemente cut it off before it got by him In the corner. He gloved it and spun around and fired a laser to second base. The throw was never more than 7 feet off the ground. The runner was out by so much, he didn’t bother to slide.

There were oohs and ahhhs throughout the stadium. Then the crowd gave Roberto an ovation. A few of them stood. A true baseball fan appreciates a superior play no matter who makes it. I remember Vin Scully giving that play all of the justice and respect it deserved. I always listen to the game on a headset radio when attending a game.

For a long time, Clemente was the standard by which all other right fielders were judged. Dave Parker, the cobra, was another pirate outfielder that you didn’t run on. He had a few notches on his glove too. :D
 
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Very little mention made here about the "other end of the court". Neither Taurasi or Moore were in the same league as Breanna; she was such an intimidating defensive presence. Pretty weak arguing about GOAT if you're going to dismiss the other end of the court.
 
Let's face it we at UConn have been very fortunate...to have had the three of them play at UConn. Breanna, Maya and Diana make up a drove of goats.
 
hoophuskee said:
IMO this isn't a far comparison. The teams with DT in her senior year didn't have many ball-handling guards. I think it was just 2 - DT and MC. Thus they were built differently. If you take out the best ball handler -- - you have no rather ball handler in that lineup. Those UCONN teams weren't build for much depth - especially ball handlers.

The Stewie led teams had great depth. And as we know once she left - they no longer won titles.
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I got no dog in this fight -- I think it's an undecidable question.

But you've made one observation that's a seriously misleading. It wasn't just Stewart who left that year, Jefferson and Tuck also went pro. Besides Stewie's contributions Morgan & Mo accounted for more than 25% of the points, 20% of the rebounds, 25% of the steals and 40% of the assists of the 2015-16 team.

Throw Stewie's numbers in and the team lost 52% of points, 40% of rebounds, 42% of steals and 57% of assists. That's a lot to make up for by a group that only averaged 13 or so minutes a game despite the many blowouts.
 
hoophuskee said:
IMO this isn't a far comparison. The teams with DT in her senior year didn't have many ball-handling guards. I think it was just 2 - DT and MC. Thus they were built differently. If you take out the best ball handler -- - you have no rather ball handler in that lineup. Those UCONN teams weren't build for much depth - especially ball handlers.

The Stewie led teams had great depth. And as we know once she left - they no longer won titles.

Get Stewart a good guard one that is all-round good -- and then throw Stewie in the lineup, they win also in 02-03 and 03-04. After all, who can we say from the prior teams of Tennessee, Minnesota, and Texas was going to shut down Stewart? And the problems with those teams back then was getting wiped out inside.

With Stewart she would take away quite a bit of the insde and on offense she low posts allowing Conlon, Strother, the good-guard I mention above in the fantasy scenario and even Turner open looks from the perimeter. The defense that Stewart and Jess Moore could play against other teams - it would have been tremendous.
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Losing Nicole Wolfe really hurt. As a freshman she was way better than Conlon and if I remember correctly started from the get go until she was hurt.
 
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JRRRJ said:
I got no dog in this fight -- I think it's an undecidable question.

But you've made one observation that's a seriously misleading. It wasn't just Stewart who left that year, Jefferson and Tuck also went pro. Besides Stewie's contributions Morgan & Mo accounted for more than 25% of the points, 20% of the rebounds, 25% of the steals and 40% of the assists of the 2015-16 team.

Throw Stewie's numbers in and the team lost 52% of points, 40% of rebounds, 42% of steals and 57% of assists. That's a lot to make up for by a group that only averaged 13 or so minutes a game despite the many blowouts.
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Well if you want to call it misleading - no skin off my back. I think all of us UCONN fans know others left too. You can just delete the comment and imo everything else still applies.
 
cbraarj said:
Losing Nicole Wolfe really hurt. As a freshman she was way better than Conlon and if I remember correctly started from the get go until she was hurt.
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I don't understand the point. Nicole Wolfe was never really a playing contributor on the championship teams, was she? I can't pull up the stats but from what I remember she rarely played especially if we count E8, FF and Finals. So = I think during their run of success in 02-03 and 03-04 - Nicole had little "playing" impact.
 
and one said:
I could have calculated the varience of the stats for each player in each category. For instance, in FG percentage the low percentage was 12.5 percent less than the highest. I didn't bother because most of the variences were small and wouldn't add much to the who is GOAT discussion unless the only criteria was raw stats, which is far from true.
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The difference between shooting 50% and 37.5% from the field is pretty big, don't you think?

and one said:
The only stat I included that was a total number rather than an average was total career points. How much importance being 1st or 3rd or 7th on the all time scoring list means is in the eye of the beholder. I added it for what it is worth. This is the only number where games played (really minutes played) matters. For what it is worth, Bascom played in 154 games, Lobo 152 and the others in the 120s.
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Might want to check that again :) (If you think about it for a moment, there's no way the three players who went to four Final Fours could've played in fewer games than the two players who went to one.)

Kerry Bascom played 27, 29, 30, and 34 games in her four seasons -- 120 games. Rebecca played 29, 29, 33, and 35 in her four seasons -- 126 games. Maya played in 38, 39, 39, and 38 games -- 154. Stewie played in 36, 40, 39, and 37 games -- 152. D played in 33, 39, 37, and 35 games -- 144 games.

Anyway, we agree that D is 3d behind Stewie and Maya, so there's that :D
 
boontonbomber said:
Very little mention made here about the "other end of the court". Neither Taurasi or Moore were in the same league as Breanna; she was such an intimidating defensive presence. Pretty weak arguing about GOAT if you're going to dismiss the other end of the court.
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Yup, this. Maya was a very good defender but Stewie, obviously, was amazing. (Diana ... also played defense.) And defense is 50% of the game. And not just blocking shots but defending in the paint in general as well as on the perimeter.
 
Can àn
hoophuskee said:
I don't understand the point. Nicole Wolfe was never really a playing contributor on the championship teams, was she? I can't pull up the stats but from what I remember she rarely played especially if we count E8, FF and Finals. So = I think during their run of success in 02-03 and 03-04 - Nicole had little "playing" impact.
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You said they really only had 2 ball handlers. Conlon and Taurasi. Wolfe was a 6' tall point guard. Who would have taken a lot of pressure off of Diana. She was that good. She got hurt real early just like Kiersten Walters who split time with Sue Bird their freshman year.
 
cbraarj said:
If Taurasi played in Mayas spot or Stewies spot. Those teams would've still won NCs.
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I don't know. Do you think D would've stepped up the way Stewie did her freshman year? If you do think that, what makes it different from how D performed her freshman year in the Final Four?
 
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Let's see..4 MVP finals award (yeah I heard that maybe MJ could have won one of those but she didn't) a record that will never be broken no matter how long basketball will be played...case closed....Stewie is the greatest GOAT....you read it here..
 
Coming from you I feel better in my believe that DT is the goat
 
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Carnac said:
Mays must have been full of himself. NOBODY ran on Clemente!! He had a reputation all around the league. During a game at Dodger Stadium, a Dodger batter hit a line drive over first base and down the line. It had double written all over it.

Clemente cut it off before it got by him In the corner. He gloved it and spun around and fired a laser to second base. The throw was never more than 7 feet off the ground. The runner was out by so much, he didn’t bother to slide.

There were oohs and ahhhs throughout the stadium. Then the crowd gave Roberto an ovation. A few of them stood. A true baseball fan appreciates a superior play no matter who makes it. I remember Vin Scully giving that play all of the justice and respect it deserved. I always listen to the game on a headset radio when attending a game.

For a long time, Clemente was the standard by which all other right fielders were judged. Dave Parker, the cobra, was another pirate outfielder that you didn’t run on. He had a few notches on his glove too. :D
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If "nobody" ran on Clemente, how do you explain the 27 assists in one season, and 5 seasons of 19 or more assists? :rolleyes:
 
Buzzyboy said:
Respectfully, I disagree .... I think there are ebbs and flows insofar as talented teams nationally and I think that the teams that Diana faced in those two final championships was of a lesser quality .... I know all you could do is beat the team in front of you but as most people concede, year in and year out there are more and more quality teams than there ever have been in women's basketball. The one thing I do know is that UConn lost miserably to Notre Dame in Dee's freshman year when she put on easily one of the worst if not the worst performance in UConn final four history. Maya Moore never was close to having a night like that and the quality of women's basketball had already elevated substantially year by year because of the effect of UConn emerging nationally in the mid to late 90's and drawing more and more young girls into taking up the game
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Diana was a freshman and supposed to be supporting Shea and Sveta. Because they went down before the ND game DT was forced into a role she wasn't quite ready for, but she still wanted to carry us.
 
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JonathanXIV said:
If "nobody" ran on Clemente, how do you explain the 27 assists in one season, and 5 seasons of 19 or more assists? :rolleyes:
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That’s easy........lunacy. 27 tried that season and didn’t make it. I wonder how many had the opportunity to try and stretch that single into a double, but because it was Clemente in right field, they had second thoughts and held at first. There have been some daring base runners that dare you to throw them out.

That’s how Roberto got those 27 notches on his glove that year. The no one refers to the smart players that had seen him before, and had the utmost respect for his arm. There’s a fool in every crowd.
 
I understand the arguments for the three players that have attracted the most attention in this discussion, but my GOAT at UCONN is Sue Bird, three time Nancy Lieberman Award winner, like Sabrina. I just watched replays of the 2001 team games, after the regular season loss to Notre Dame. For me it comes down to the Big East tournament final against Notre Dame. Abrasimova already out for the season after the Tennessee game, Shea goes down before halftime. Bird makes the half court shot with 1.9 seconds left. Game tied at 76 with 5 seconds left. Bird dribbles length of the court for winning basket. She played with bad back. Bird lost her freshman year; she could have won in 2001 if Taurasi hadn't had a bad game. Bird doesn't have the numbers, but I think you put her on the court with UCONN, the US national team, or WNBA Seattle, and you win. You put the ball in her hands with the game on the line.
 
Bronxjeff said:
Diana was a freshman and supposed to be supporting Shea and Sveta. Because they went down before the ND game DT was forced into a role she wasn't quite ready for, but she still wanted to carry us.
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I'm not condemning her but there's a tendency for people here to treat her like she's flawless. She couldn't hit the broad side of the barn in that second half and that's the type of performance that Maya never had, from Day 1 of her freshman year .... some people talk about Diana's junior and senior year and act like she had absolutey no support and that's not quite true .... she had a mature team with a good amount of talent though maybe not all-americans and a totally underappreciated Ms. Conway who was superb in her role .... beyond that, in her sophomore year, she had probably the best collection of talent that UConn has ever had on the court with her and as I said, the competition in those final fours weren't nearly as tough as they've gotten in subsequent final fours as the talent level in women's basketball has been improving exponentially ... there are very few easy outs in the later part of the NCAA tournament NOW
 
and one said:
There have been Boneyard discussions on who the Uconn GOAT is over the years although a quick search didn’t pull up a poll on the subject. I’m talking about Uconn career, not including post-college performance. Include that and Taurasi wins hands down, end of discussion.
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We (I) actually did do a vote/poll a couple years ago. Final outcome was
Stewart
Taurasi
Moore

Did a positional one at the same time. Final outcome was
1 - Bird/Jefferson (tied)
2 - Taurasi
3 - Moore
4 - Stewart
5 - Charles
 
Mike_In_Storrs said:
Does anyone really think Stewart isn't the greatest?

As much as I love Taurasi and Maya...Should anyone be mentioned with Stewart as "GOAT".... She was basically perfect...

Just my opinion.
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I'll go with Diana. The one national championship she didn't win was her freshman year after two starters went down with season-ending injuries, and she had the worst game of her career- 1 for 15 shooting against Notre Dame.

I've never seen a more amazing basketball player. Ever.
 
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