Who is the Uconn GOAT? It's all in the numbers...maybe.

[#12in21]

(Maya) was 1st in 3 point %, assists per game, steals per game, points per game and total points, 2nd in field goal %, and free throw %, 3rd in blocks per game and 5th in rebounds per game. Her honors include 2 national championships. 1 NCAA tournament MVP, 4 1st team AP All American, 2 AP Player of the Year and 3 Wade Trophies.

All three were obviously exceptional players and are in (or will be in) the discussion for GOAT women's b-ball player period. I personally have always seen Maya as UCONN GOAT. I in no way discount that, DT was (and is) a killer that has always broken opponent's hearts with impossible shots and bravado and just taken them out of the game, or that Stewie was unquestionably the dominate player in wcbb during her time as a Husky.

Maya came in as a freshman and immediately was the best player on the floor more nights than not - there was no arrogance or disrespecting of Renee or Tina as established leaders she just came in from day one and went to work. I believe there is little doubt that Maya would have won the Wade trophy her freshman year as well if not for the rule barring freshman from being eligible. From the bit about Maya in "and one's" post that I quoted she was first or second in seven of the categories used as criteria. An argument could be made that her rebound numbers would have been much higher at UCONN as well if she hadn't played alongside Tina Charles for three seasons.

An amazing thing for me was that even given all the categories that Maya led in she was always a team first player, she was always focused on getting her team the W, finding a teammate with the right pass, hitting the shot when they needed it, snatching the offensive rebound and laying it in in one motion, getting the steal and going the length of the court for the score, sinking pressure free throws or coming from no where to get the clean block on the opponents runaway layup. For me I think the main thing that makes Maya my GOAT at UCONN and beyond - is the focus, intensity and mostly the beauty of how she played (and hopefully continues to play) the game. In another post I mentioned the clear images in my minds eye of Maya rising up for the sweetest looking jump shot in the game, the ball rolling off her fingertips as her outstretched body glides in for a layup and that full court burst down court to swat away an unsuspecting opponent's 'uncontested' layup, and always that look of intensity on her face. Those images are things of beauty.

One thing I can be sure of is that we, as UCONN wcbb fans have no rivals that face the same conundrum of picking who among these three that are always in the discussion as overall women's b-ball GOAT is the best that ever played for their team. Can't wait to see the next few names that will be added to the discussion!

 

[Carnac]

Ruth, Cobb, Williams, Speaker, or Wagner? Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Jordan, James? Brown, Montana, Brady, Greene? I don't care what statistics you would be able to present for any of these players you won't convince a New England fan that Montana is better than Brady, Jordan better than Russell, or Ruth better than Williams. (Of course we all know that Clemente was the greatest),

No we all don't. I never saw Ruth or Williams play. But I did see Mays and Clemente play in person, and play during their prime. Mays is my all time favorite player........period!! Both were 5 point players. There was nothing Roberto did or could do that Willie couldn't or didn't. Who was best between these two, who's to say. You could win with either one of them, and they both could hurt you.

During my little league playing days, from time to time, would try making Mays' outfield "basket catches" during practice sessions. My success rate was about 50%. I got hit in the head, mouth and chest trying. I never had the stones to try one during a game. If I did and dropped it, I'd probably never see the field again for THAT coach. I NEVER saw Mays drop one. He always did it nonchalantly, and made it look easy. It wasn't.

The great ones make what they do look easy. I saw many of the great ones, Koufax, Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Wilver "Pops" Stargell, Stan Musial, etc. According to Statcast, Stargell is one of only 4 players to hit a ball out of Dodger Stadium, and he did it twice. The others: Mark McGwire, Mike Piazza, and Giancarlo Stanton. One of Stargell's bombs traveled 506 feet, and is probably still rolling.

I'll agree that Clemente was one of the best. All of MLB liked and respected him. But the jury is still out on who was THE best. That's subjective. Everyone has their favorites, and nothing/no one is going to change their minds.

 

[Carnac]

Slide over my friend and allow me to join you on that branch. One of the best arguments I've read suggesting that Maya is the GOAT. She's my goat too, for all the reasons you mentioned.

We're a very small minority (there are others), but that' ok. I can live with it. I like Diana, and recognize that she is the CONSENSUS goat of the UConn fan base, but not the unanimous choice. Until those of us that want to debate on who the real goat is, first we must agree on the criteria to be used in making those judgments. I doubt we'll be able to do that. That is why we cannot all agree. Some use stats/numbers, some go by the number of championships won, while others use individual awards and the eye test.

Because she was a 4 time MVP of the final four, and won 4 rings, many think Breanna Stewart is the goat. She was a great player, and is 2nd on the all-time scoring list right behind Maya. But was she better than Dee or Maya?

Connecticut has the most all-time winners with nine. Maya is the only player to win the Wade Trophy three times, accomplishing the feat in 2009 (only sophomore ever to win the award). That said, it's hard to argue against a 4 time NCAA champion regardless of what criteria you choose to use.

The goat is whoever YOU think is the best player in UConn lore is, because you know your basketball, and know a great one when you see one. Case closed.

 

[cbraarj]

If Taurasi played in Mayas spot or Stewies spot. Those teams would've still won NCs. Taurasi could've won in 2011. Mayas Sr. year. I don't see Maya and Stewie winning in 03 or 04. Diana made those players better! She made Maria a better player. She made Moore Battle better. She made the 3 freshmen better Turner Strother and Crocket better. What she also gave those teams more than anything is confidence that they can do it. They can beat anyone no matter who they were playing. The last thing she passed on to her teams is her Swagger! The confidence and arrogance that she played with were off the charts and those young players bought into it!

 

[#12in21]

I was watching a youtube a while back of an interview with Maya Moore and Sylvia Fowles, I believe it was post game of the 2017 All-Star game. At the end the interviewer asked 'Do you think a team of UCONN all stars could beat a team of WNBA all stars?' Maya's response, 'Are you really asking me that question....ALL Day.. let's do it.. set it up now, we can go right now , do it... That would be fun we should try it one year.'

 

[hoophuskee]

Maya accomplished the most "personally" for stats as a player. Stewie has those 4 NC's. BUT IMHO Dee won 3 NC's, and did it 2 years with far less than anyone else. She made everyone around her so much better. For me, she's my UCONN GOAT...

I agree with the above in bold sentiment-- but imo the Notre Dame teams were quite a bit superior to the teams DT went through her jr and sr years. Additionally, I think that Oklahoma team DT faced her soph year was better than the jr and sr year teams.

And imo the team Maya/Tina beat-- in Stanford was better than the DT teams she faced in her jr and sr years.

I have Stewie 1-- DT- 2- Maya - 3.

 

[hoophuskee]

If Taurasi played in Mayas spot or Stewies spot. Those teams would've still won NCs. Taurasi could've won in 2011. Mayas Sr. year. I don't see Maya and Stewie winning in 03 or 04. Diana made those players better! She made Maria a better player. She made Moore Battle better. She made the 3 freshmen better Turner Strother and Crocket better. What she also gave those teams more than anything is confidence that they can do it. They can beat anyone no matter who they were playing. The last thing she passed on to her teams is her Swagger! The confidence and arrogance that she played with were off the charts and those young players bought into it!

IMO this isn't a far comparison. The teams with DT in her senior year didn't have many ball-handling guards. I think it was just 2 - DT and MC. Thus they were built differently. If you take out the best ball handler -- - you have no rather ball handler in that lineup. Those UCONN teams weren't build for much depth - especially ball handlers.

The Stewie led teams had great depth. And as we know once she left - they no longer won titles.

Get Stewart a good guard one that is all-round good -- and then throw Stewie in the lineup, they win also in 02-03 and 03-04. After all, who can we say from the prior teams of Tennessee, Minnesota, and Texas was going to shut down Stewart? And the problems with those teams back then was getting wiped out inside.

With Stewart she would take away quite a bit of the insde and on offense she low posts allowing Conlon, Strother, the good-guard I mention above in the fantasy scenario and even Turner open looks from the perimeter. The defense that Stewart and Jess Moore could play against other teams - it would have been tremendous.

 

[hoophuskee]

Which is the better car, a 1985 Ford Escort or a brand new Porche? You may think the Escort is the better car, but there is a real answer here and it isn't the Ford Escort.

Take 3 great wines, same region and grape, each from a great vintage. Is one better than the others? It would come down to nuances of personal taste that might not even be definable. Or 3 great wines of different regions, grapes and styles. Is the great Bordeaux better than a great Reisling or great Champagne? A matter of taste. You'd be damn lucky to drink any of the three.

D, Maya, Stewie. If you had to pick one to start your team, you could pick one randomly and never have to look back to second guess yourself. For me personally I'd take Maya over D and it is a dead tie between Maya and Stewie. But man would it be sweet to have D on my team.

I'd give the edge to DT. I just look at Maya's senior year - her last game in which ND beat UCONN on the 4th try. Maya is what we'd all expect-- her greatness showed through-- UNSTOPPABLE - scoring 36 points.

But as was the case - it's harder for her to get others involved per her style of play. That's why Tiffany scored 4 and Bria 10. But I get it- we can also say because Dolson got into foul trouble she took her team as far as could realistically go.

 

[#12in21]

No we all don't. I never saw Ruth or Williams play. But I did see Mays and Clemente play in person, and play during their prime. Mays is my all time favorite player........period!! Both were 5 point players. There was nothing Roberto did or could do that Willie couldn't or didn't. Who was best between these two, who's to say. You could win with either one of them, and they both could hurt you.

During my little league playing days, from time to time, would try making Mays' outfield "basket catches" during practice sessions. My success rate was about 50%. I got hit in the head, mouth and chest trying. I never had the stones to try one during a game. If I did and dropped it, I'd probably never see the field again for THAT coach. I NEVER saw Mays drop one. He always did it nonchalantly, and made it look easy. It wasn't.

The great ones make what they do look easy. I saw many of the great ones, Koufax, Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Wilver "Pops" Stargell, Stan Musial, etc. According to Statcast, Stargell is one of only 4 players to hit a ball out of Dodger Stadium, and he did it twice. The others: Mark McGwire, Mike Piazza, and Giancarlo Stanton. One of Stargell's bombs traveled 506 feet, and is probably still rolling.

I'll agree that Clemente was one of the best. All of MLB liked and respected him. But the jury is still out on who was THE best. That's subjective. Everyone has their favorites, and nothing/no one is going to change their minds.

From an emotional viewpoint my heart belongs to Roberto Clemente. I grew up in Pittsburgh and was of the right age to become a baseball fan in the mid 60's, so to me nobody played like Clemente. I was lucky enough to see him in person in a couple games at Forbes Field. Forbes Field for those who are not familiar had a very deep right field (450') and there was a blind corner. In one game which I was able to attend there was a hit into that corner, Clemente chased it down and with no clear sight line threw a perfect strike into home plate to get the runner out. Speaking of Willie Mays, I read that early on in Clemente's tenure with the Pirates, Clemente threw him out on a long throw from right field and when Mays was asked why he went, he responded that he didn't think anyone could throw him out. Besides both being great players they both employed the basket catch. One more connection, which would have made for one hell of an outfield (defensively and offensively) was that Clemente was very nearly signed to the Giants but the Dodgers offered a higher bonus and got him and then hid him away in Montreal on the farm team for a season. Branch Rickey Jr. (who had recently left the Dodger's organization) then stole him away for Pittsburgh as the Dodger's had left him unprotected.

 

[CTBballfan243]

Does anyone really think Stewart isn't the greatest?

As much as I love Taurasi and Maya...Should anyone be mentioned with Stewart as "GOAT".... She was basically perfect...

Just my opinion.

Geno doesn’t think so. I with Geno on this one. Diana is the Goat!!!

 

[Kaizen]

I will say,
DT is the goat
Maya is the Eagle
Stewart is the husky

They are equally great in my mind.

 

[eebmg]

I will say,
DT is the goat
Maya is the Eagle
Stewart is the husky

They are equally great in my mind.

Not sure I agree with your animal spirits

DT is the Quick Strike Lethal Mamba
Maya is the Flesh eating Lion
Stewie is the Other worldly Unicorn.

They are all GOATS

 

[Carnac]

From an emotional viewpoint my heart belongs to Roberto Clemente. I grew up in Pittsburgh and was of the right age to become a baseball fan in the mid 60's, so to me nobody played like Clemente. I was lucky enough to see him in person in a couple games at Forbes Field. Forbes Field for those who are not familiar had a very deep right field (450') and there was a blind corner. In one game which I was able to attend there was a hit into that corner, Clemente chased it down and with no clear sight line threw a perfect strike into home plate to get the runner out. Speaking of Willie Mays, I read that early on in Clemente's tenure with the Pirates, Clemente threw him out on a long throw from right field and when Mays was asked why he went, he responded that he didn't think anyone could throw him out. Besides both being great players they both employed the basket catch. One more connection, which would have made for one hell of an outfield (defensively and offensively) was that Clemente was very nearly signed to the Giants but the Dodgers offered a higher bonus and got him and then hid him away in Montreal on the farm team for a season. Branch Rickey Jr. (who had recently left the Dodger's organization) then stole him away for Pittsburgh as the Dodger's had left him unprotected.

Mays must have been full of himself. NOBODY ran on Clemente!! He had a reputation all around the league. During a game at Dodger Stadium, a Dodger batter hit a line drive over first base and down the line. It had double written all over it.

Clemente cut it off before it got by him In the corner. He gloved it and spun around and fired a laser to second base. The throw was never more than 7 feet off the ground. The runner was out by so much, he didn’t bother to slide.

There were oohs and ahhhs throughout the stadium. Then the crowd gave Roberto an ovation. A few of them stood. A true baseball fan appreciates a superior play no matter who makes it. I remember Vin Scully giving that play all of the justice and respect it deserved. I always listen to the game on a headset radio when attending a game.

For a long time, Clemente was the standard by which all other right fielders were judged. Dave Parker, the cobra, was another pirate outfielder that you didn’t run on. He had a few notches on his glove too.

 

[boontonbomber]

Very little mention made here about the "other end of the court". Neither Taurasi or Moore were in the same league as Breanna; she was such an intimidating defensive presence. Pretty weak arguing about GOAT if you're going to dismiss the other end of the court.

 

[cferraro04]

Let's face it we at UConn have been very fortunate...to have had the three of them play at UConn. Breanna, Maya and Diana make up a drove of goats.

 

[JRRRJ]

IMO this isn't a far comparison. The teams with DT in her senior year didn't have many ball-handling guards. I think it was just 2 - DT and MC. Thus they were built differently. If you take out the best ball handler -- - you have no rather ball handler in that lineup. Those UCONN teams weren't build for much depth - especially ball handlers.

The Stewie led teams had great depth. And as we know once she left - they no longer won titles.

I got no dog in this fight -- I think it's an undecidable question.

But you've made one observation that's a seriously misleading. It wasn't just Stewart who left that year, Jefferson and Tuck also went pro. Besides Stewie's contributions Morgan & Mo accounted for more than 25% of the points, 20% of the rebounds, 25% of the steals and 40% of the assists of the 2015-16 team.

Throw Stewie's numbers in and the team lost 52% of points, 40% of rebounds, 42% of steals and 57% of assists. That's a lot to make up for by a group that only averaged 13 or so minutes a game despite the many blowouts.

 

[cbraarj]

IMO this isn't a far comparison. The teams with DT in her senior year didn't have many ball-handling guards. I think it was just 2 - DT and MC. Thus they were built differently. If you take out the best ball handler -- - you have no rather ball handler in that lineup. Those UCONN teams weren't build for much depth - especially ball handlers.

The Stewie led teams had great depth. And as we know once she left - they no longer won titles.

Get Stewart a good guard one that is all-round good -- and then throw Stewie in the lineup, they win also in 02-03 and 03-04. After all, who can we say from the prior teams of Tennessee, Minnesota, and Texas was going to shut down Stewart? And the problems with those teams back then was getting wiped out inside.

With Stewart she would take away quite a bit of the insde and on offense she low posts allowing Conlon, Strother, the good-guard I mention above in the fantasy scenario and even Turner open looks from the perimeter. The defense that Stewart and Jess Moore could play against other teams - it would have been tremendous.

Losing Nicole Wolfe really hurt. As a freshman she was way better than Conlon and if I remember correctly started from the get go until she was hurt.

 

[hoophuskee]

I got no dog in this fight -- I think it's an undecidable question.

But you've made one observation that's a seriously misleading. It wasn't just Stewart who left that year, Jefferson and Tuck also went pro. Besides Stewie's contributions Morgan & Mo accounted for more than 25% of the points, 20% of the rebounds, 25% of the steals and 40% of the assists of the 2015-16 team.

Throw Stewie's numbers in and the team lost 52% of points, 40% of rebounds, 42% of steals and 57% of assists. That's a lot to make up for by a group that only averaged 13 or so minutes a game despite the many blowouts.

Well if you want to call it misleading - no skin off my back. I think all of us UCONN fans know others left too. You can just delete the comment and imo everything else still applies.

 

[hoophuskee]

Losing Nicole Wolfe really hurt. As a freshman she was way better than Conlon and if I remember correctly started from the get go until she was hurt.

I don't understand the point. Nicole Wolfe was never really a playing contributor on the championship teams, was she? I can't pull up the stats but from what I remember she rarely played especially if we count E8, FF and Finals. So = I think during their run of success in 02-03 and 03-04 - Nicole had little "playing" impact.

 

[Wally East]

I could have calculated the varience of the stats for each player in each category. For instance, in FG percentage the low percentage was 12.5 percent less than the highest. I didn't bother because most of the variences were small and wouldn't add much to the who is GOAT discussion unless the only criteria was raw stats, which is far from true.

The difference between shooting 50% and 37.5% from the field is pretty big, don't you think?

The only stat I included that was a total number rather than an average was total career points. How much importance being 1st or 3rd or 7th on the all time scoring list means is in the eye of the beholder. I added it for what it is worth. This is the only number where games played (really minutes played) matters. For what it is worth, Bascom played in 154 games, Lobo 152 and the others in the 120s.

Might want to check that again (If you think about it for a moment, there's no way the three players who went to four Final Fours could've played in fewer games than the two players who went to one.)

Kerry Bascom played 27, 29, 30, and 34 games in her four seasons -- 120 games. Rebecca played 29, 29, 33, and 35 in her four seasons -- 126 games. Maya played in 38, 39, 39, and 38 games -- 154. Stewie played in 36, 40, 39, and 37 games -- 152. D played in 33, 39, 37, and 35 games -- 144 games.

Anyway, we agree that D is 3d behind Stewie and Maya, so there's that

 

[Wally East]

Very little mention made here about the "other end of the court". Neither Taurasi or Moore were in the same league as Breanna; she was such an intimidating defensive presence. Pretty weak arguing about GOAT if you're going to dismiss the other end of the court.

Yup, this. Maya was a very good defender but Stewie, obviously, was amazing. (Diana ... also played defense.) And defense is 50% of the game. And not just blocking shots but defending in the paint in general as well as on the perimeter.

 

[cbraarj]

Can àn

I don't understand the point. Nicole Wolfe was never really a playing contributor on the championship teams, was she? I can't pull up the stats but from what I remember she rarely played especially if we count E8, FF and Finals. So = I think during their run of success in 02-03 and 03-04 - Nicole had little "playing" impact.

You said they really only had 2 ball handlers. Conlon and Taurasi. Wolfe was a 6' tall point guard. Who would have taken a lot of pressure off of Diana. She was that good. She got hurt real early just like Kiersten Walters who split time with Sue Bird their freshman year.

 

[Wally East]

If Taurasi played in Mayas spot or Stewies spot. Those teams would've still won NCs.

I don't know. Do you think D would've stepped up the way Stewie did her freshman year? If you do think that, what makes it different from how D performed her freshman year in the Final Four?

 

[bluedevil]

Let's see..4 MVP finals award (yeah I heard that maybe MJ could have won one of those but she didn't) a record that will never be broken no matter how long basketball will be played...case closed....Stewie is the greatest GOAT....you read it here..

 

[Zanzman]

Coming from you I feel better in my believe that DT is the goat