Who is Charlie Creme?

[Carnac]

Really? Even if they graduate everybody? Even if their coach retires? This is one of the most ridiculous statements that I've ever seen.

And you're holding him accountable for this, when virtually NOBODY, including UCONN's OWN COACH, knew this would happen? Forget what I said above. This is the most ridiculous statement that I've ever seen.

If I'm a stock broker, and I give you financial advice based on what I see that proves to be wrong, and you take a bath because of it, are you going to trust me again after that?
Are you going to continue to take and heed financial advise from me in the future? Are you? I was wrong. You've lost a lot of $$$ because I didn't see it coming. That should be a lot of comfort to you.

The potential was there, he didn't see it. What potential (if any) did he see in the other teams that he rated above UConn? I'm saying whatever he used, system, mindset or whatever you want to call it, is faulty. What did he see in Notre Dame that made him think they should be ranked #1?

 

[Plebe]

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/...f-bracketology-filling-in-all-the-blanks.html

Long story short: pharmaceutical sales rep living in Las Vegas obsessed with college BB; ESPN hired him around 2005 to project the NCCA women's field after his friend declined the job. He's still a pharmaceutical sales rep. No mention of what he needed to do to win the license to be a bracketologist or if that specialized skill helps him with his pharmaceutical sales.

He was a sportswriter living near Philly at the time he started collaborating with Lunardi:

Creme, 44, and Lunardi were living near Philadelphia at the time, so they and a few colleagues would get together during the weekend heading into Selection Sunday. They worked out of Lunardi’s office at St. Joseph’s University, where he has been a full-time employee since graduating in 1982. Creme was a staff writer for The Sports Network, a wire service that provided college and professional sports news mainly to radio stations.
​

At some point ESPN asked Lunardi to take on the women's bracket as well. Lunardi declined but recommended Creme for the job.

 

[Carnac]

With all due respect, I think we are disagreeing with your wording.

" If a team (any team) wins the NC, they should be ranked #1 in the following year's pre-season poll out of respect, regardless of who leaves or comes."

The general concept I think we can agree or disagree upon. But when you throw in those qualifiers, it becomes much more difficult to find common ground.

I don't want my argument to sound like I'm a UConn homer. That's why I said "any team". Be it UConn or an other team. Give them their respect. If they are not a #1 team, then move them down after the season begins, and they lose games. Are you not the reigning champion until someone beats or dethrones you? Or are you the champion as long as Charlie Creme thinks you are? Forget the words, embrace the concept. You're #1 until someone beats you!!! All I'm saying is it should carry over to the beginning of the next season. It's that simple.

 

[Vowelguy]

NO!!! He did not have UConn #1 in his pre-season top 25 rankings. If a team (any team) wins the NC, they should be ranked #1 in the following year's pre-season poll out of respect, regardless of who leaves or comes.

Could not disagree more.

 

[Adesmar123]

I don't want my argument to sound like I'm a UConn homer. That's why I said "any team". Be it UConn or an other team. Give them their respect. If they are not a #1 team, then move them down after the season begins, and they lose games. Are you not the reigning champion until someone beats or dethrones you? Or are you the champion as long as Charlie Creme thinks you are? Forget the words, embrace the concept. You're #1 until someone beats you!!! All I'm saying is it should carry over to the beginning of the next season. It's that simple.

Just a quick comment, when you are posting on a website its really hard to "forget the words." Its the medium in which you work.

 

[Carnac]

Just a quick comment, when you are posting on a website its really hard to "forget the words." Its the medium in which you work.

OK, I done here. I've made my point as best I can. It's one I'm not backing away from. Some will agree, most won't. I can live with that. I understand that whenever I or anyone else posts a comment, it is subject to scrutiny. I'm OK when others do that, and don't agree. Let's move on. This has become a dead horse.

 

[DefenseBB]

Not a fair question. That would never happen. I understand that many will not agree with my take on this. It's MY opinion. This is one I can't be moved off of. It's not just when UConn wins. It's for ANY team that wins the NC. Just like in most sports, when a team wins the championship, they are usually picked by the Las Vegas odds makers as odds on favorites to win it again the next year in the initial odds rankings for he next year. Would putting the previous year's champion at #1 to begin the next season invalidate his poll? I don't think so. As we all know, pre-season ranking mean absolutely nothing.

I love a man of conviction! I will also make sure that a supply ship drops food, water and magazines off on your little island.

I too have my moments of isolation on ideas so don't feel too defensive, after, all that said my meme. I also preferred your old Carson turbin photo as that was Carnac...

 

[Vowelguy]

Like many people in other professions , Creme has spent a lot of time studying and learning. Studying the brackets year after year, talking to the committee, participating in NCAA media bracjetology events where they explain the system in minute detail. Could others do it ? Sure, if they put in the effort. But the essence of the question here seems to be that any one could be put in his job tomorrow and do just as well. That is not true and is unfair.

 

[chrissaran]

If Geno thought they would lose a few games, then no one saw this coming. He has said it many times during the year. He schedule tough opponents to show this team it wouldn't be easy, and yet they defied everyone's expectations - everyone's.

 

[Husky pride]

Not totally sure what the big problem is here. He ( Carnac) simply offered an opinion that , under normal circumstances, a team that's won the national championship before should be picked to win it again....especially, in his opinion, by someone like Charlie who purports to be an expert analyst in such matters.
Carnac may have overextended by including the wording "regardless of who comes or goes". Obviously, if a team is depleted and starts with basically a number of "unprovens" it can't reasonably be chosen to be picked #1. We all know that was not the case with UConn

 

[chrissaran]

Carnac, did you predict UConn would be 32-0? Did you predict Baylor losing to West Virginia? Did you predict Ohio St losing to Purdue? How many upsets have you predicted this year? It's not so easy to pick games. What he saw with ND was an excellent coach, a senior point guard running the team and lots of talent. I didn't hear anyone in Storrs complaining. I have a feeling Geno preferred it that way. It took the pressure offthe team early in the season when they faced a grueling schedule. Geno would disagree with you. He has said many times that we're not defending anything. No one's going to take last year's trophy away. You start every year new. Just maybe not being ranked number 1 has had this team playing with a chip on their shoulder.

 

[Adesmar123]

Not totally sure what the big problem is here. He ( Carnac) simply offered an opinion that , under normal circumstances, a team that's won the national championship before should be picked to win it again....especially, in his opinion, by someone like Charlie who purports to be an expert analyst in such matters.
Carnac may have overextended by including the wording "regardless of who comes or goes". Obviously, if a team is depleted and starts with basically a number of "unprovens" it can't reasonably be chosen to be picked #1. We all know that was not the case with UConn

Ay, there's the rub. What he said was " If a team (any team) wins the NC, they should be ranked #1 in the following year's pre-season poll out of respect, regardless of who leaves or comes. " By the way those are his boldings not mine.

I don's see anything about normal circumstances.

I could probably agree with his concept. But not with what he posted. Are we to agree or disagree with what he is thinking, or what he writes?

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Respectfully

That is how I disagreed.

 

[Adesmar123]

That is how I disagreed.

Ditto here...

 

[PhillyCoach]

No, I was trying to find the line in the sand at which you would agree that you were wrong. Then we could see if we could move that line to a more sensible place. But it turns out that you're one who will never admit that they were wrong. I get it now.

If someone has a "concept" that a NC team should be #1 until they are beaten----why is that concept wrong? Why would someone move his line in the sand so YOU could consider him wrong? Sounds more like you just want to prove to yourself that you are right and someone else is wrong. That's my interpretation. From my perspective. From my experience.

 

[Carnac]

With all due respect, I think we are disagreeing with your wording.

" If a team (any team) wins the NC, they should be ranked #1 in the following year's pre-season poll out of respect, regardless of who leaves or comes."

The general concept I think we can agree or disagree upon. But when you throw in those qualifiers, it becomes much more difficult to find common ground.

Last note: I referenced the qualifier "regardless of who comes or goes", simply because so much was made of UConn losing the BIG 3, and was the basis of Creme ranking UConn at #4. He made that perfectly clear in his narrative:
4. Connecticut
"Another new era begins in Storrs. Gone are the most accomplished players in UConn history. Breanna Stewart, Moriah Jefferson and Morgan Tuck delivered four national titles and a 151-5 record. This now becomes the team of Kia Nurse, Gabby Williams, Katie Lou Samuelson and Napheesa Collier. That core is talented enough to get back to the Final Four, especially because Geno Auriemma is still on the bench. Replacing Jefferson with highly regarded freshman point guard Crystal Dangerfield will the top storyline to watch".

That was his qualifier, not mine. I try to choose my words carefully. In case I either have to eat them, or defend them.

 

[Adesmar123]

.

Last note: I referenced the qualifier "regardless of who comes or goes", simply because so much was made of UConn losing the BIG 3, and was the basis of Creme ranking UConn at #4. He made that perfectly clear in his narrative:

That was his qualifier, not mine. I try to choose my words carefully. In case I either have to eat them, or defend them.

Ok..but it sure looked like you said it.

 

[1-of-the-6]

Not totally sure what the big problem is here. He ( Carnac) simply offered an opinion that , under normal circumstances, a team that's won the national championship before should be picked to win it again....especially, in his opinion, by someone like Charlie who purports to be an expert analyst in such matters.
Carnac may have overextended by including the wording "regardless of who comes or goes". Obviously, if a team is depleted and starts with basically a number of "unprovens" it can't reasonably be chosen to be picked #1. We all know that was not the case with UConn

You've tempered his words, so much so in fact, that had he made the case as you have, there would never have been anyone disputing his opinion. What he said was that ANY team that won the NC should be rated #1 in next season's opening poll. There was no "under normal circumstances" caveat, and in that lies the difference.

 

[Monte]

If you agree or disagree with Creme, you have to admit(I hate to use this phrase), he is: "Good for the game." This discussion would not be taking place right now if there was no Charlie.
I like to look over his weekly predictions, especially right now, when there is a lull in the activity on the court.
I feel, that the fewer discussions which take place, the less fan interest there would be.
Ponder this: WHAT IF THERE WAS NO BONEYARD???
Read, discuss, and enjoy, but don't take things so seriously.

 

[pacific 44]

Easy to tell there's a long layoff between games when the most easy-going guy on this forum is catching heck from multiple sources.lol

 

[Icebear]

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/...f-bracketology-filling-in-all-the-blanks.html

Long story short: pharmaceutical sales rep living in Las Vegas obsessed with college BB; ESPN hired him around 2005 to project the NCCA women's field after his friend declined the job. He's still a pharmaceutical sales rep. No mention of what he needed to do to win the license to be a bracketologist or if that specialized skill helps him with his pharmaceutical sales.

Interesting, I have frequently thought he is on drugs.

 

[BigBird]

Guys, what are we arguing about here? You think Creme is credible and you put stock in his brackets and polls, and I don't. We can all get along. Do I have to follow the crowd (or conventional wisdom) to be thought reasonable? I'm NOT a follower. Creme's pre-season poll struck a cord with me, and I didn't like it, and still don't. That's my personal prerogative. Many others had no problem with it. I have not attacked anyone that agreed with his poll. I may offer my take, but that's it. We can agree to disagree.

We CANNOT agree to disagree. It is un-American! We have turned a corner in our fair land, a change that makes it far easier to identify our enemies and those who would undermine our sense of righteousness. Our enemies, the vile miscreants, are those whose views are not the same as mine! Bayonets! Charge!

 

[Carnac]

.


Ok..but it sure looked like you said it.

Stop for a moment and look at what you're doing. You're criticizing me for criticizing him for the same reasons. Your reasons make sense to you, just like mine make sense to me.
You reasons make sense to you, and that's enough for you. I disagreed with the formula/criteria he used to formulate his rankings. It turned out he was wrong. Nothing anyone can say or do will change that. I haven't let it go yet.

I will never get mad at someone because they don't see the things I do, the way I do. Agree or not, perception differs from person to person. That would be like getting mad or frustrated at someone because they don't have a sense of direction, and you do. And you just can't understand why they can't tell one direction from another like you can. You can see it, why can't they? I know you know we all don't think alike.

 

[Carnac]

We CANNOT agree to disagree. It is un-American! We have turned a corner in our fair land, a change that makes it far easier to identify our enemies and those who would undermine our sense of righteousness. Our enemies, the vile miscreants, are those whose views are not the same as mine! Bayonets! Charge!

Et tu Brute? I thought we were boys. When it rains, it pours. And I thought this was a safe and friendly place were folks could come a share their thoughts and opinions without fear of attack and reprisal.

 

[Adesmar123]

Stop for a moment and look at what you're doing. You're criticizing me for criticizing him for the same reasons. Your reasons make sense to you, just like mine make sense to me.
You reasons make sense to you, and that's enough for you. I disagreed with the formula/criteria he used to formulate his rankings. It turned out he was wrong. Nothing anyone can say or do will change that. I haven't let it go yet.

I will never get mad at someone because they don't see the things I do, the way I do. Agree or not, perception differs from person to person. That would be like getting mad or frustrated at someone because they don't have a sense of direction, and you do. And you just can't understand why they can't tell one direction from another like you can. You can see it, why can't they? I know you know we all don't think alike.

Carnac I think you really misunderstand the direction of a lot off this thread. A lot of people (including me) pretty much agree with your thoughts "in concept". But I think your original posting didn't express the concept that was in your head. You wrote something that was different than that concept. "Regardless of who comes and goes" is a pretty strong qualifier and has the ability to completely change someone's thoughts on the idea expressed.

I am not criticizing you for your thoughts. I wouldn't do that. I might point out that, as you expressed yourself originally, its hard to agree with you. Please reread your original posting and think about qualifier "regardless of who leaves or comes". I know that there weren't any unexpected roster changes. But that expression says that no matter who leaves or comes onto the team roster the National Champion should be #1 preseason. I know you say it won't happen, but should the top ten roster players leave the following year, should the team be preseason #1?

With no disrespect that is why I was having a such a problem agreeing with the wording and not the concept.