When will Ollie learn to work the refs? | The Boneyard

When will Ollie learn to work the refs?

Palatine

Palatine

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He really needs to develop this skill. Teams get away with murder against us. The one Tulsa kid committed offensive fouls (push off) five or six times. Not only did he get away with it, it was sometimes called on us. Adams was clobbered on the last play of regulation and the refs ate their whistles. And every game we are pushed in the back under our own rim rebounding with no calls, but while we pile up fouls going for rebounds on our end.

Tight games are often decided by such things. Calhoun wouldn't let the refs get away with it. Why can't he teach some of this to Ollie? Why doesn't Ollie understand the importance of it? Forget that it isn't Ollie nature. If he wants to be a great coach, he has to get better at this.

Yes, there will always be bad calls. Sometimes it works out, others it doesn't. I won't even say the refs are costing us games. (But they sure are not NOT making it easier). That's not my point. Just saying.
 
Palatine said:
He really needs to develop this skill. Teams get away with murder against us. The one Tulsa kid committed offensive fouls (push off) five or six times. Not only did he get away with it, it was sometimes called on us. Adams was clobbered on the last play of regulation and the refs ate their whistles. And every game we are pushed in the back under our own rim rebounding with no calls, but while we pile up fouls going for rebounds on our end.

Tight games are often decided by such things. Calhoun wouldn't let the refs get away with it. Why can't he teach some of this to Ollie? Why doesn't Ollie understand the importance of it? Forget that it isn't Ollie nature. If he wants to be a great coach, he has to get better at this.

Yes, there will always be bad calls. Sometimes it works out, others it doesn't. I won't even say the refs are costing us games. (But they sure are not NOT making it easier). That's not my point. Just saying.
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Did you use term "great coach"? A great coach would not have lost to Auburn and Tulsa. He seems to be a better recruiter, than coach. Winning through adversity, is a great coach. Right now, KO is a good coach. Toughest thing to do is to follow a legend. Which he is doing.
 
Someone who has gone to more games than I am can speak to this better, but the games I've gone to this year and last, Ollie is constantly working the refs. It clearly happens off camera as he talks to the ref trailing the play. But just because he doesn't do it on camera doesn't mean he doesn't do it. But someone who has gone to more games than I have can speak to this better.
 
raf46 said:
Did you use term "great coach"? A great coach would not have lost to Auburn and Tulsa. He seems to be a better recruiter, than coach. Winning through adversity, is a great coach. Right now, KO is a good coach. Toughest thing to do is to follow a legend. Which he is doing.
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Yeah a great coach would beat those teams with 3 key players out, one just getting back from a concussion, and only 2 ball handlers.

Just look at coach K, he lost his last game big.
 
My issue is fundamentals which the team lacks a lot of this year.
No boxing out on rebounds.
Horrible foul shooting
Passing that is iffy at best more of the time
Just playing stupid at times and forgetting the situation of the game
 
Not to mention screens are few and far between and when set are weak at best. Move without the ball. Many times guys are stationary On offense. They become very easy to Guard. They don't take pride in the small things.

These issues on top of the biggest issue is team's inability to shoot basketball doesn't make for a good combo.
 
.-.
raf46 said:
Did you use term "great coach"? A great coach would not have lost to Auburn and Tulsa. He seems to be a better recruiter, than coach. Winning through adversity, is a great coach. Right now, KO is a good coach. Toughest thing to do is to follow a legend. Which he is doing.
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That's a pretty broad statement
Yep no great coach loses games they are "supposed" to win.................
Coach K never lost 1st round NCAA games to small conference schools? Even JC lost WTF games on a near yearly basis - lost to George Mason with perhaps his most talented team overall.
I agree that KO is not a great coach - yet
 
scotty0330 said:
Not to mention screens are few and far between and when set are weak at best. Move without the ball. Many times guys are stationary On offense. They become very easy to Guard. They don't take pride in the small things.

These issues on top of the biggest issue is team's inability to shoot basketball doesn't make for a good combo.
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I mean, nobody is setting screens. they don't know how to, think this has been established. Its just bizarre, given how much KO runs "floppy" (guy running baseline coming off screens, the lamb ncaat set) or tries to implement certain action on offense where good screens are crucial.

People say oh the nba is so bad on here all the time, take a look at how well even the guards screen for each other. curry, lowry, and even kemba, stockton was the king at this. Purvis could even be an effective screener if he wasn't busy trying to shoot all the time. Brimah is incapable of setting good screens, the same way he can't carve out space for low post scoring or rebound. Enoch is a good screener but literally has no clue where he needs to be on either end is almost unplayable at times.

The team had a lack of feel for each other super early in the season, in exhibitions even... So this is probably on the staff. Its like the players are instructed to slip screens all the time because KO is afraid of officials calling moving screens and his players footwork.
 
upstater said:
Someone who has gone to more games than I am can speak to this better, but the games I've gone to this year and last, Ollie is constantly working the refs. It clearly happens off camera as he talks to the ref trailing the play. But just because he doesn't do it on camera doesn't mean he doesn't do it. But someone who has gone to more games than I have can speak to this better.
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Just because a coach doesn't go ballistic doesn't mean he isn't working the refs. That's an old KO observation that just isn't true any more.
 
After 4 years, the observation is that the potential for this ability has decayed exponentially. Only a JC-type lightning bolt to the butt from on high could be a catalyst at this point..
 
.-.
Agreed that KO needs to do a better job of working the officials. His inability to set the tone with officials early has hurt us in key moments and close games on multiple occasions. Here's my thoughts on why KO is bad at working the refs and why he sometimes refuses to work them altogether:

  1. KO is too nice and it's simply not his personality to get mad/upset. He's mister nice-guy, and you know the saying, right? "Nice guys finish last."
  2. KO complaining to the officials goes against his whole coaching philosophy. He doesn't like blaming issues on others and he wants his players to be accountable for their actions. Complaining to the refs is taking the accountability off yourself, and he doesn't want to set that example for his team.
  3. When KO does get upset with the officials, he can't control himself and work them appropriately -- 2 key incidents ended up hurting the team. -- Exhibit A - Louisville -- Exhibit B - Maryland
  4. Due to the feedback and media firestorm from Exhibits A and B above, my thought is that KO has decided he can't let anything like those situations happen again where he ends up hurting the team. As a result, he's been even more conservative in his approach to working the officials than usual since those 2 incidents -- Maryland especially.
  5. Calhoun was a master at working the officials. So by comparison, KO looks like he's awful at it, when in reality he's probably just average or worse at working the refs.
  6. Since Shabazz, KO hasn't had many high-BBIQ or savvy players who pick up easy fouls or get respect from officials. Players have just as much, if not more influence on what gets called than the coaches getting in the ears of the refs. I've never seen a player get so LITTLE respect from refs as Brimah, due in part to his lanky awkwardness.

I know people around here love shooting down threads that complain about the officials by saying "The officials didn't lose the game because of X, Y, and Z" and also "Blaming the loss on the officials is a loser's mentality."
Yeah that's partly true. But in reality, officiating ABSOLUTELY alters the game way more than many want to believe or admit. Seeing the difference between refs calling games with Calhoun versus KO at the helm certainly highlights the importance.

KO is still a young coach and learning to work the officials is an art. It will take him time, but I hope he learns sooner rather than later. My concern is that he will continue to be complacent with working the refs since his Maryland outburst (he's been noticeably more reserved since then).
 
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The "20 minutes" thing is probably the most played out cliché here and no one could throw it in this thread where it would actually be funny?

This board is depressing.
 
microfich said:
Just because a coach doesn't go ballistic doesn't mean he isn't working the refs. That's an old KO observation that just isn't true any more.
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It's absolutely true, Calhoun not only worked the refs, he would get an occasional technical to make the point. He doesn't have to go ballistic but he does have to make the point in a way that involves the fans and intimidates the refs. Demonstrable protecting your players, demanding that the refs right a wrong, letting everyone in the building know that you have been wronged, put the darn refs on notice.

Talking to the refs in a TO a few minutes after a bad call is not working the refs. Or whispering in the trailing refs ear is not working the refs. That is pleading and begging.
 
Palatine said:
It's absolutely true, Calhoun not only worked the refs, he would get an occasional technical to make the point. He doesn't have to go ballistic but he does have to make the point in a way that involves the fans and intimidates the refs. Demonstrable protecting your players, demanding that the refs right a wrong, letting everyone in the building know that you have been wronged, put the darn refs on notice.

Talking to the refs in a TO a few minutes after a bad call is not working the refs. Or whispering in the trailing refs ear is not working the refs. That is pleading and begging.
Expand ...

Kinda like Mick Cronin?
 
uconnbill said:
My issue is fundamentals which the team lacks a lot of this year.
No boxing out on rebounds.
Horrible foul shooting
Passing that is iffy at best more of the time
Just playing stupid at times and forgetting the situation of the game
Expand ...
I agree. Clearly this points to coaching, but not on KO necessarily. The problem is high school and AAU coaching, IMHO. These coaches see all these skillful and athletic kids and ride them, with very little emphasis on fundamentals. When they all reach college they all posses similar skills and athleticism and the difference, in many cases, is the fundamentals. Guys who have both excel, while others disappoint. So I guess KO's biggest blunder is not getting kids that are fundamentally sound.
 
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7774 said:
The "20 minutes" thing is probably the most played out cliché here and no one could throw it in this thread where it would actually be funny?

This board is depressing.
Expand ...
I was going to .... in twenty minutes.
 
.-.
Palatine said:
He really needs to develop this skill. Teams get away with murder against us. The one Tulsa kid committed offensive fouls (push off) five or six times. Not only did he get away with it, it was sometimes called on us. Adams was clobbered on the last play of regulation and the refs ate their whistles. And every game we are pushed in the back under our own rim rebounding with no calls, but while we pile up fouls going for rebounds on our end.

Tight games are often decided by such things. Calhoun wouldn't let the refs get away with it. Why can't he teach some of this to Ollie? Why doesn't Ollie understand the importance of it? Forget that it isn't Ollie nature. If he wants to be a great coach, he has to get better at this.

Yes, there will always be bad calls. Sometimes it works out, others it doesn't. I won't even say the refs are costing us games. (But they sure are not NOT making it easier). That's not my point. Just saying.
Expand ...

Maybe he's a secret agent for another team. You know, he was born in Dallas. SMU plant?
 


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UChusky916 said:
Agreed that KO needs to do a better job of working the officials. His inability to set the tone with officials early has hurt us in key moments and close games on multiple occasions. Here's my thoughts on why KO is bad at working the refs and why he sometimes refuses to work them altogether:

  1. KO is too nice and it's simply not his personality to get mad/upset. He's mister nice-guy, and you know the saying, right? "Nice guys finish last."
  2. KO complaining to the officials goes against his whole coaching philosophy. He doesn't like blaming issues on others and he wants his players to be accountable for their actions. Complaining to the refs is taking the accountability off yourself, and he doesn't want to set that example for his team.
  3. When KO does get upset with the officials, he can't control himself and work them appropriately -- 2 key incidents ended up hurting the team. -- Exhibit A - Louisville -- Exhibit B - Maryland
  4. Due to the feedback and media firestorm from Exhibits A and B above, my thought is that KO has decided he can't let anything like those situations happen again where he ends up hurting the team. As a result, he's been even more conservative in his approach to working the officials than usual since those 2 incidents -- Maryland especially.
  5. Calhoun was a master at working the officials. So by comparison, KO looks like he's awful at it, when in reality he's probably just average or worse at working the refs.
  6. Since Shabazz, KO hasn't had many high-BBIQ or savvy players who pick up easy fouls or get respect from officials. Players have just as much, if not more influence on what gets called than the coaches getting in the ears of the refs. I've never seen a player get so LITTLE respect from refs as Brimah, due in part to his lanky awkwardness.

I know people around here love shooting down threads that complain about the officials by saying "The officials didn't lose the game because of X, Y, and Z" and also "Blaming the loss on the officials is a loser's mentality."
Yeah that's partly true. But in reality, officiating ABSOLUTELY alters the game way more than many want to believe or admit. Seeing the difference between refs calling games with Calhoun versus KO at the helm certainly highlights the importance.

KO is still a young coach and learning to work the officials is an art. It will take him time, but I hope he learns sooner rather than later. My concern is that he will continue to be complacent with working the refs since his Maryland outburst (he's been noticeably more reserved since then).
Expand ...

This is an astute post and pretty close to the mark.

But to your point #2: JC had no trouble holding players accountable, but also knew how to work the officials. It's definitely not an either/or situation.
 
Palatine said:
He really needs to develop this skill. Teams get away with murder against us. The one Tulsa kid committed offensive fouls (push off) five or six times. Not only did he get away with it, it was sometimes called on us. Adams was clobbered on the last play of regulation and the refs ate their whistles. And every game we are pushed in the back under our own rim rebounding with no calls, but while we pile up fouls going for rebounds on our end.

Tight games are often decided by such things. Calhoun wouldn't let the refs get away with it. Why can't he teach some of this to Ollie? Why doesn't Ollie understand the importance of it? Forget that it isn't Ollie nature. If he wants to be a great coach, he has to get better at this.

Yes, there will always be bad calls. Sometimes it works out, others it doesn't. I won't even say the refs are costing us games. (But they sure are not NOT making it easier). That's not my point. Just saying.
Expand ...


the most we can hope for is the break even with the calls, we're never on the right side of a poorly officiated game
 
Palatine said:
He really needs to develop this skill. Teams get away with murder against us. The one Tulsa kid committed offensive fouls (push off) five or six times. Not only did he get away with it, it was sometimes called on us. Adams was clobbered on the last play of regulation and the refs ate their whistles. And every game we are pushed in the back under our own rim rebounding with no calls, but while we pile up fouls going for rebounds on our end.

Tight games are often decided by such things. Calhoun wouldn't let the refs get away with it. Why can't he teach some of this to Ollie? Why doesn't Ollie understand the importance of it? Forget that it isn't Ollie nature. If he wants to be a great coach, he has to get better at this.

Yes, there will always be bad calls. Sometimes it works out, others it doesn't. I won't even say the refs are costing us games. (But they sure are not NOT making it easier). That's not my point. Just saying.
Expand ...
Totally agree, it's part of coaching and KO needs to be much better at it. Jim, I think, actually enjoyed that gamesmanship with the refs - KO doesn't.
 
This team must be the life of every whiner on this board...let the man do his job and live with the injuries this year and support the program.
 
.-.
Can we let this working the ref's thing die? Of all the people who post this, where are your seats? Unless you can hear what Ollie is saying to the ref's every time they run by him you can't say he doesn't know how to work the ref's.
 
polycom said:
Can we let this working the ref's thing die? Of all the people who post this, where are your seats? Unless you can hear what Ollie is saying to the ref's every time they run by him you can't say he doesn't know how to work the ref's.
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If he doesn't do it early in the game, and if it's not visible in the 200 section, and it doesn't result in UConn being treated more fairly, perhaps even given the advantage -then it ain't working the refs.

This is a valuable skill. He needs to learn it. Learning it will increase his win total.
 
There's Pete Newell's Big Man Camp for the players.

Now there will be a Palantine's Work the Referee's / Mad Skillz 101 camp beginning this summer.
 
When our designated shooters stop tossing the ball over the rim and off the side of the backboard, get back to me on the officials.
 
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