When is a Player Considered a Volume Shooter?

[easttexastrash]

That phrase was used about Cappie tonight in the telecast and I am wondering when you consider a player a volume shooter. Is it based on shots per game/minutes or does it have to do more with the percentage of her team's shots that she takes?

 

[Stray Cat]

...I am wondering when you consider a player a volume shooter.

When her name begins with "Meighan" and ends with "Simmons". See her picture in the dictionary next to "volume shooter" and "bricklayer" as well as "poor team player".

 

[alexrgct]

That phrase was used about Cappie tonight in the telecast and I am wondering when you consider a player a volume shooter. Is it based on shots per game/minutes or does it have to do more with the percentage of her team's shots that she takes?

It's one of those terms that doesn't have a strict operational definition but you you know one when you see one. Basically if you score a solid number of points but to do so inefficiently in terms of shots taken, you're a volume shooter.

In Cappie's case, being called a volume shooter is far better than "blithering idiot who felt the need to tweet about about the tsunami that hit Japan and generally embarrassed herself in the process." I mean, they might both be true, but one was obviously the greater transgression.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Don't know what others define a volume shooter is but IMHO its someone who shoots a lot in order get to his/her average. For example a volume shooter is someone who takes 15-20+ shots a game to average 15 points a game. A shooter would only need to take 7-11 shots a game to get to 15 points a game. DT is a shooter, Dewanna Bonner is a volume shooter.

If I were to use percentages, I would probably say if you average double digits in scoring but shoot less then 40% then I would classify you as a volume shooter. Cappie's shooting % is 36% thus the label Volume Shooter.

 

[pinotbear]

A volume shooter is one who is taking shots that you think ought to be going to your favorite player on that team.

 

[Blakeon18]

The needs of the particular team should be taken into consideration. Saniya was a volume shooter for Ossining and yet we have heard from both her high school coach
and Geno is that she is too unseflish at times. Her passing skills will get her immediate PT at UConn [imo]....her passing skills at Ossining simply didn't help her team win as much as firing it up there.

 

[UcMiami]

All good responses, but the best is certainly pinot's.
It really is somewhat subjective, but I would say two factors prevail - % of a teams first chance shots taken and shooting % on those shots (and fouls drawn on missed shots.) It really comes down to points/shot taken ratios for players taking a lot of shots. If you shoot 50% from the field, it doesn't matter as much how many shots you take and if you only shoot 10% of your teams shots while on the floor it doesn't matter what percentage you shoot your should not be classified as a 'volume shooter'. Secondary factors are things like time left on the shot clock, difficulty of shot selection, teams overall shooting percentage, etc. Taking Chong as an example - hard to classify her as a volume shooter with her field goal percentage and scoring average - taking 30 shots to score 20-25 points is volume shooting, taking 30 shots to score 40-50 points is not volume shooting. Another example would be EDD in college ... she was her team's obviously best player: she took a high percentage of her teams total shots, but also had a high points to shots ratio and a good shooting percentage and a high number of shooting fouls drawn and free throws made. If you were her coach you probably wanted her taking even more shots each game and no one would classify her as a volume shooter.

 

[Blakeon18]

What is Saniya's field goal percentage?

 

[sivad40]

When her name begins with "Meighan" and ends with "Simmons". See her picture in the dictionary next to "volume shooter" and "bricklayer" as well as "poor team player".

I disagree with Meighan Simmons being labeled a volume shooter. I think she's more a streaky shooter than a volume one. When she's on, she's on. When she's not, she's not.

 

[cohenzone]

There can be a difference between a volume shooter and a gunner. First, I'd assume that the coach wants the volume shooter to shoot a lot even if the % isn't eye-popping. But I'd also guess the coach wants the shots to be reasonable ones that the player makes often enough to be reliable. A gunner, on the other hand, implies a player who doesn't know a good shot from a bad shot and they might or might not be a volume shooter, although I'd think that it would be hard for a volume gunner to see much floor time in the long run.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think the term has a negative connotation. As noted, it suggests a lack of efficiency. It may also refer to someone who needs to take shots to find his/her groove. I don't see it based on just the number of shots. Often the best player on the team takes a lot of shots--EDD, Saniya, Maya all take a lot of shots, but shoot a high percentage. As a twist on Pinot's good reply, I'd say that a volume shooter may take low percentage shots when teammates are open for higher percentage shots. That does not help his/her team.

I'd agree with the concept, but change the numbers a bit relative to Wbbfan1. The scoring average would be 15+, but the FG percentage would be 35-40%. The player has a high scoring average, but it's because of a very high number of attempts. See Riquana Williams, Meigan Simmons, and Andrea Riley in college.

UConn will never have a pure volume shooter. Geno teaches getting good shots, finding the open player. That's why the team shoots 50% and wins 95% of the time. A volume shooter does not know the difference between a good shot and a bad shot and rarely wins championships. Geno wants Kaleena to take a lot of shots, but that makes total sense. She is arguably the best shooter in UConn's illustrious history.

 

[tonehill68]

I disagree with Meighan Simmons being labeled a volume shooter. I think she's more a streaky shooter than a volume one. When she's on, she's on. When she's not, she's not.

A volume shooter is one who shoots a lot whether they make more than they miss or vice versa. Simmons falls under this category as she puts up a lot of shots. The best way to describe this type of shooter is when you know you pass the ball to them and its not coming back. Again Simmons falls under this category.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Carmelo Anthony is the archetype.

During bad stretches in the 2011 men's season, you could have ascribed that label to Kemba Walker.

There is no player in the history of UConn women's basketball who would be described as a volume scorer. Diana Taurasi could have been in 2003, Maya Moore could have been in 2011, but they weren't. And their teams were better for it.

 

[UConnCat]

I disagree with Meighan Simmons being labeled a volume shooter. I think she's more a streaky shooter than a volume one. When she's on, she's on. When she's not, she's not.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. A player can be both a volume shooter and a streaky shooter; most volume shooters are both. It's often the streakiness that causes volume shooters to keep shooting.

As has been already stated, I think of a volume shooter as a player who scores a lot of points because of the number of shots taken and not by the percentage made, i.e., inefficiently. The old business adage "I'll make it up in volume" can apply to basketball. Sugar Rodgers is the best recent example. Sugar averaged 22.9 ppg by taking 20 FGs/game and making only 36% of her shots. She took 35% of Georgetown's shots last season. Contrast that with KML who averaged 17 ppg on 12 shots per game, shooting an outstanding 52%. KML took 18% of UConn's shots last season.

I don't necessarily think of Simmons as a volume shooter although there were certainly games in which she scored a lot simply because she shot a lot. Last season she averaged 16.8 ppg on 15 FGA/gm and made 41% of her FGA while taking 23% of Tenn's shots. I think of Simmons as a player who too often demonstrates poor shot selection. She would be better and her team would be better if she stopped trying to be a hero and instead shot the ball when open and tried to help her teammates score when not open.

 

[baggerbob]

The greatest example of a volume shooter would be Reggie Miller, he could miss ten in a row, but score at will in the next ten minutes. But even if he was missing, you still would rather he take a tough shot, then most guys taking an easy one.

 

[Adesmar123]

I think the short answer is "If she's not on your team"

 

[easttexastrash]

I agree that Andrea Riley was a volume shooter and was easy to identify as such, as was Sugar Rogers. I can't say that Cappie strikes me as a volume shooter at this point in her career so I thought applying that description to her was inaccurate.

 

[easttexastrash]

Maybe Cappie is a volume shooter. She is taking 18 shots a game to average 17.6 points.

 

[rocky rococo]

My own personal standard is, "Does the player routinely put up similar numbers of points and FGA?" If yes, that's a volume shooter.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Cat makes several good points, as usual. I think there can be a tie between streak shooters and and volume shooters, though they are not necessarily the same. Some players need to get into a rhythm and may need several shots--many of them misses--to find it.

I agree that Sugar Rogers is a volume shooter. At times Seimone Augustus can be one too. For players who are clearly the best offensive players on a team, the player and coach need to answer this: Is it better for the star to take a lower percentage shot than a less skilled shooter to take an open shot? Seimone and Angel McCaughtry historically have had to do the bulk of their team's scoring, so they forced shots at times. Now that they have good support, they need to adjust and employ better shot selection, as I think both have to some degree. The answer to that question is not obvious. Generally, I prefer the open shot, especially if it is a very high percentage shot. In an extreme case, I liked EDD taking a very large share of UDel's shots. Even her off-balance shots may have been the team's best scoring option.

 

[EricLA]

In college, Sugar Rogers comes to mind. Angel as well. Meighan Simmons to a lesser extent - i think someone pointed out streaky and that's probably more accurate for her. That, and as Cat pointed out, poor shot selection.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...

 

[Scotter]

The greatest example of a volume shooter would be Reggie Miller, he could miss ten in a row, but score at will in the next ten minutes. But even if he was missing, you still would rather he take a tough shot, then most guys taking an easy one.

Actually Reggie Miller doesn't fit the definition of volume shooter at all. He was an extremely efficient shooter and scorer and he never regularly shot a high volume of shots. Miller like Ray Allen, Dale Ellis, and others were just shooters.

To be a volume shooter you have to regularly take a high volume of shots, and need a high volume of shots to get high point totals thus being relatively inefficient. The hallmark of a volume shooter is that they can be key to helping a bad or even average team win. If their inefficiency is still better than many of their teammates then that volume has value.

However, that high volume that's only at maybe moderate efficiency also can put a cap on how great their team can be. Because typically their shot selection doesn't change or decrease so it reaches a point where they truly are taking shots away from more efficient teammates. Typically they're not consistent shooters so they are not much more efficient on wide open shots as they are contested shots. Versus someone like Steve Kerr who couldn't create any volume of shots, but on a great team he could absolutely maximize his wide open opportunities posting some of the most efficient seasons in NBA history playing for championship teams in Chicago and Stan Antonio.

 

[UcMiami]

After reading all the responses I'll may a few amendments to my earlier post. I still think low efficiency (points scored/number of shots < 0.9) for high average points/game players is the clearest indication of volume shooter. But I think the other team aspects are probably more important than I gave them credit earlier. The quality of offense being played (shot difficulty) and the speed with which a player shoots (time left on the shot clock) are significant. I do classify Simmons as a volume shooter (who can be very streaky) because I saw a number of games where she hoisted shots at the first opportunity (early in a shot clock) and often of fairly high difficulty. There were games where she would make five of them in a row, but that didn't mean they were 'good' shots or that TN was running good offense.
It is also interesting to note that most of the players I think of in the negative way as volume shooters are either point guards or combo guards - I think it is much more difficult to be a volume shooter if you are not controlling the offense with the ball in your hands. And I tend to distrust point guards with very high scoring averages as it suggests they are looking for their own shot more than they are looking to distribute. It is very rare to see someone like Chong with both a very high scoring average and a very high assist average even in HS where numbers for good players are inflated.

 

[VAUConnFan]

If Diana Taurasi is not considered a volume shooter, then it would be patently unfair to consider Cappie Pondexter and DeWanna Bonner as volume shooters. Using Taurasi as a baseline, Cappie Pondexter, during her WNBA career has averaged a shade under 16 shots a game, 19.4 points per game and is a career 43% shooter. DeWanna Bonner, in her first three seasons in Phoenix prior to being pressed into a starting role last season, averaged 8.4 shots per game. 11.3 points per game, while shooting 45%. Last season she was called upon to do things to which she was not quite accustomed, including playing over 35 minutes per game. Diana Taurasi, who, by the way, never averaged 35 minutes a game, has averaged a little over 15 shots per game, 20.6 points per game, while shooting 44%. Similar stats all the way around.

 

[VAUConnFan]

You want volume shooters? How about the college careers of Pete Maravich, Dan Issel, Rick Mount, Calvin Murphy, Johnny Neumann, Austin Carr, Bill Bradley, Fly Williams, Freeman Williams, Bo Lamar, Elvin Hayes, Oscar Robertson, Rick Barry, and Doug Collins.