When Does a missed call matter?

[DaddyChoc]

I thought that the officiating at the Final Four was even worse than normal. I'd call it horrible. I thought it clearly favored State and N.D. on Friday and N.D. last night. Mabrey committed 2 blatant fouls in the last minute that weren't called. In Friday's UConn game, the refs called almost nothing for 3 quarters, then called almost everything. They were not even consistent within the game. One would hope that it would balance out, but in OT games and very narrow victories, there is a high probability that a few bad calls or noncalls determine the game. Recall the shot clock issue in the Rutgers v. Tennessee game. Or the noncall that cost Minnesota the 2016 WNBA championship.

 

[JellyBean]

Yeah that missed called hurt Mississippi State. Especially just a second or two later they called a foul on McCowan, with roughly the same type of contact. However, MSU hurt their chances in the long run. Missing shots up close. Free throws. And blowing their lead.

 

[Shades]

Yeah that missed called hurt Mississippi State. Especially just a second or two later they called a foul on McCowan, with roughly the same type of contact. However, MSU hurt their chances in the long run. Missing shots up close. Free throws. And blowing their lead.

McCowan was forced to commit an intentional foul on the player who intercepted the pass on that play. Another disastrous consequence of that missed call. Even if Arike would have missed that final shot, MSU would have been going into OT without McCowan.

 

[my2cents]

A thread of sophistry.
First, it was a foul on Mabrey. Whether Williams had already lost the ball or not is meaningless, because being knocked over by a player, impedes the "knocked over" players ability to recover the ball.
Comparing a "bad" call in the last seconds is the same result as a bad call in the first qtr. BOGUS, why...because you have no time left to recover from the bad call. Game over, you lose.
The fact that it happened in a NC title game, at half court with full visibility to 3 refs, made it a historically bad call.

 

[hugefan]

It matters when a team has no clue how to play as the rules don’t matter. When there is no call that is equal and players who are taught to play defense the right way are being called for fouls while other players don’t even get into any kind of defensive position get away with knocking players over. The players who play the correct way cannot adjust as the refs don’t follow the rules. This final four set the way games are played back ten years. Ugly bully basketball won with slow upright defenders in bad position knocking players over.

 

[Orangutan]

A thread of sophistry.
First, it was a foul on Mabrey. Whether Williams had already lost the ball or not is meaningless, because being knocked over by a player, impedes the "knocked over" players ability to recover the ball.

If the "knocking over" is deemed incidental to an effort to reach a loose ball, it's not a foul.

 

[hugefan]

Give me a break. She had no defensive position like she ever does. She came from behind, big red flag lazy D. And basically knocked Morgan on her ass and then laughed as she knew she got away with it. Trying to defend the player who never thinks she fouls and whines to the refs about every call, is not a good look.

It’s like the commercial an apple is not a banana.

 

[Bear11]

If the "knocking over" is deemed incidental to an effort to reach a loose ball, it's not a foul.

View attachment 30415

That was not a loose ball situation. William clearly had control, so the lower body contact should've been a foul.

 

[Orangutan]

That was not a loose ball situation. William clearly had control, so the lower body contact should've been a foul.

She was in the midst of passing it to Vivians. I see it as Mabrey blocking the pass. But it happens very fast.

It's definitely not how I saw the first time. It's hard to tell how much of my current interpretation is me seeing what I want to see.

 

[Shades]

William waited a fraction too long getting it to Vivians. Had a clear passing lane here. Mabrey should probably be the real MVP because she did about the only thing that could possibly prevent MSU from winning this game on a breakaway or going into OT, and she got away with it to boot.

 

[hugefan]

You keep on doubling down, again which part of coming from behind don’t you get, the girl has never got in a stance her whole life and she bulldozed Morgan to the ground. Hey but keep trying to make excuses like your coach did all year.

 

[Shades]

It looked worse from the head-on angle when they were doing the slo-mo replays. Anybody have a clip of that?

 

[hugefan]

I was right there when it happened, not 1 person in that gym thought it was not a foul, even Mabrey.

 

[my2cents]

I have watched the last 1:54 about 5 times ( don't ask why I have the time)
MST made lots of mistakes that really hurt their chances too.
Even though I still think it was foul, Mabrey cut across her path, hitting her left arm while trying to make the pass. The fall looks more like a selling flop than by direct contact.
The other mistakes:
McGowan missing a point blank bunny
Blair Scheaffer guarding Jackie Young down low
Not fouling when you had a foul to give..
So as we now know, ND is national champs

 

[MsuDawg]

Does anyone have the video where Blair got shoved to the ground on an inbound pass...which I think was the possession where ND made that entry pass down low for the layup to tie the game?

 

[Orangutan]

Does anyone have the video where Blair got shoved to the ground on an inbound pass...which I think was the possession where ND made that entry pass down low for the layup to tie the game?

At 1:14:25 of this video. It's William, not Schaefer that goes down but I'm pretty sure this is the possession to which you are referring. Ref is standing right there and makes a "get up" motion at William.

 

[willtalk]

This has to be one of the most nonsensical statements of all time. Fouls at the begin have just as much an impact, if not more.... because it changes how players play. KLS had 4 fouls... two or three were bogus. She had to be extra careful and could not take chances late in the game....

Your response makes my point for me. The fouls and conditions that are created by early fouls can be adjusted too. The team adjusts the way they play to compensate for the effects of that foul. Of course fouls in respect to reaching a players 5 fouls limit does count less when the time left to play is diminished. You would sit a player who got three fouls in the first quarter when you certainly wouldn't sit them in the third quarter. When in a game things happen certainly do carry more weight depending on circumstances.

The circumstances I am speaking of are in respect to a dwindling clock. People foul because their options are diminished as the clock is running out. The wrong call that changes a possession with seconds on the clock is critical because it takes away a teams option of getting a stop just playing good defense. Rather then the only option left to them is to foul and hope the other team misses a free throw. The out come is basically taken out of your own hands. The value of plays fouls etc is dependent on when in the game they take place. McCowans 5th foul meant much less because it was with little time left. Which is why she fouled. Conversely the no call had the opposite effect. I depends purely on the the foul.

I regret that you thought my statement was nonsensical, because if reflects your inability to comprehend variables in context with time.

 

[Grad1990]

Any other game it's called.

As another poster pointed out...this was a "HISTORICALLY bad call". So bad, that it may be the single most impactful bad call in the history of NCAA championship games.

"First, it was a foul on Mabrey. Whether Williams had already lost the ball or not is meaningless, because being knocked over by a player, impedes the "knocked over" players ability to recover the ball.

Comparing a "bad" call in the last seconds is the same result as a bad call in the first qtr. BOGUS, why...because you have no time left to recover from the bad call. Game over, you lose.

The fact that it happened in a NC title game, at half court with full visibility to 3 refs, made it a historically bad call."

 

[willie99]

When it is the direct cause of a loss in a National Championship game.

The non-call on Mabrey steam-rolling Williams in the last seconds of the game is about as clear a missed call in a basketball game as anyone will ever see.

There is no question that the non-call changed the outcome of the game. MS was in the bonus, Williams would have been on the line and very likely would have hit at least one of the free throws, and ND likely doesn't have the time to set up a play likely to succeed.

It is a shame that the game was decided by the ref, not the players.

I agree with you, but Miss St beat Louisville on Friday night with the exact same missed call, the Cards should have been shooting free throws at the end of regulation

The zero contact foul on us called in OT vs ND by a ref 50 feet away from the play also impacted how that game was played during OT, there were awful calls (or non calls) all weekend long

 

[the Q]

Any other game it's called.

I'd love to hear the NCAA's defense of that play.

 

[the Q]

I agree with you, but Miss St beat Louisville on Friday night with the exact same missed call, the Cards should have been shooting free throws at the end of regulation

The zero contact foul on us called in OT vs ND by a ref 50 feet away from the play also impacted how that game was played during OT, there were awful calls (or non calls) all weekend long

I think the play that summed up the entire UConn/ND game, and maybe the whole weekend was in the 4th when Gabby drove to the hoop, got bumped, hit the ground and her momentum rolled her into taking out Collier, giving ND and easy 5 on 3 opportunity.

yet somehow, not a foul.

 

[HuskyNan]

For the love of God, move on. The game was over 2 weeks ago.

 

[uconnfan68]

NO! ;^)

 

[Alydar]

She was in the midst of passing it to Vivians. I see it as Mabrey blocking the pass. But it happens very fast.

It's definitely not how I saw the first time. It's hard to tell how much of my current interpretation is me seeing what I want to see.

At least you acknowledge as possible what is obvious to any clear-sighted and rational observer.