When Does a missed call matter?

[Grad1990]

When it is the direct cause of a loss in a National Championship game.

The non-call on Mabrey steam-rolling Williams in the last seconds of the game is about as clear a missed call in a basketball game as anyone will ever see.

There is no question that the non-call changed the outcome of the game. MS was in the bonus, Williams would have been on the line and very likely would have hit at least one of the free throws, and ND likely doesn't have the time to set up a play likely to succeed.

It is a shame that the game was decided by the ref, not the players.

 

[ivrytontusker]

Shall we go through every missed call in the game? Everything that happens during the game counts toward the final score, not just things that happen in the final minute. (And even if we only look at the final minute, ND hit a 3 with 3 seconds left. So they still would have won, unless you're assuming that shot doesn't go in for some reason.)

MSU was 10-17 from the FT line. ND was 15-17. Missed FTs mattered more than missed calls.

 

[Grad1990]

Shall we go through every missed call in the game? Everything that happens during the game counts toward the final score, not just things that happen in the final minute. (And even if we only look at the final minute, ND hit a 3 with 3 seconds left. So they still would have won, unless you're assuming that shot doesn't go in for some reason.)

MSU was 10-17 from the FT line. ND was 15-17. Missed FTs mattered more than missed calls.

Not the same.....Calls during the course of a game...I agree with you.

With three seconds left?

Absolutely not!

 

[UConn990411]

Shall we go through every missed call in the game? Everything that happens during the game counts toward the final score, not just things that happen in the final minute. (And even if we only look at the final minute, ND hit a 3 with 3 seconds left. So they still would have won, unless you're assuming that shot doesn't go in for some reason.)

MSU was 10-17 from the FT line. ND was 15-17. Missed FTs mattered more than missed calls.

There are so many holes in this argument that I don’t even know where to start.

Mississippi State did so many things wrong on their own down the stretch, including missed layups, free throws, etc. Additionally, the no call by the officials changed the entire complexion of the end of the national championship - maybe even impacting the outcome of the game.

Those two points can both be true at the same time.

 

[ivrytontusker]

There are so many holes in this argument that I don’t even know where to start.

Mississippi State did so many things wrong on their own down the stretch, including missed layups, free throws, etc. Additionally, the no call by the officials changed the entire complexion of the end of the national championship - maybe even impacting the outcome of the game.

Those two points can both be true at the same time.

So do you think that if every call throughout the entire game were made correctly, MSU would have shot more FTs than ND? And would have made more FTs than ND? Because I don't. There is no reason to fixate on a call or non-call that happened in the last minute as opposed to one that happened in the first minute.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I thought that the officiating at the Final Four was even worse than normal. I'd call it horrible. I thought it clearly favored State and N.D. on Friday and N.D. last night. Mabrey committed 2 blatant fouls in the last minute that weren't called. In Friday's UConn game, the refs called almost nothing for 3 quarters, then called almost everything. They were not even consistent within the game. One would hope that it would balance out, but in OT games and very narrow victories, there is a high probability that a few bad calls or noncalls determine the game. Recall the shot clock issue in the Rutgers v. Tennessee game. Or the noncall that cost Minnesota the 2016 WNBA championship.

 

[UConn990411]

So do you think that if every call throughout the entire game were made correctly, MSU would have shot more FTs than ND? And would have made more FTs than ND? Because I don't. There is no reason to fixate on a call or non-call that happened in the last minute as opposed to one that happened in the first minute.

When that call (or non-call) happens with 3 seconds, then yes, it makes sense to fixate on it.

If the correct call was made, Mississippi State would have been shooting free throws with 3 seconds left. If they made (at least) one, Notre Dame would have had to find a way to score in 3 seconds, starting from underneath their own basket. Even if both free throws were missed, the chances that game went into overtime were much higher.

Tons of credit to to Ogunbowale for making another incredible shot, but she may not have been in position to make it had it not been for an inexplicable no call by the officials. I think you’re rationalizing because you know your team got a huge gift.

 

[Wbbfan1]

If its a foul earlier in the game, then its a foul at the end of the game regardless of the score. Refs shouldn't be swallowing whistles. That Marbrey was a Blatant Foul and should have been called, like they were earlier in the game. I don't believe there was a conspiracy favoring ND, but I do think there was a Conspiracy that the Refs not impact the game by calling fouls down the stretch. But Mabrey's foul was not a touch foul and should have been called. By not calling a foul, they impacted the game.

Its a shame that Coaches in their Post Game Press Conferences are muzzled by the threat of fines and other actions as I expect both Walz and Schaefer would have had plenty to say. Geno might not have said anything as he recognizes his players didn't play up to their abilities. The announcers also seemed to have a muzzle as I don't recall any negative comments about the officiating in any of the three games.

 

[ivrytontusker]

When that call (or non-call) happens with 3 seconds, then yes, it makes sense to fixate on it.

If the correct call was made, Mississippi State would have been shooting free throws with 3 seconds left. If they made (at least) one, Notre Dame would have had to find a way to score in 3 seconds, starting from underneath their own basket. Even if both free throws were missed, the chances that game went into overtime were much higher.

Tons of credit to to Ogunbowale for making another incredible shot, but she may not have been in position to make it had it not been for an inexplicable no call by the officials. I think you’re rationalizing because you know your team got a huge gift.

ND did find a way to score with 3 seconds left, as I recall.

 

[UConn990411]

ND did find a way to score with 3 seconds left, as I recall.

They did - starting from Mississippi State’s end of the court.

You conveniently left that part out.

 

[Husky Pete]

They did - starting from Mississippi State’s end of the court.

You conveniently left that part out.

For a time out in the last minute, the ball advances to the offensive end of the court for the in bound, similar to the NBA.

The foul that set up the last play occurred in the MS half of the court. After the time out ND in bounded the ball from their half of the court in front of their bench.

FWIW, MS had a foul to give and could have fouled before the last shot got off.

 

[warbler1055]

It's a real shame that championship games were decided by the blind and incompetent referrees!!!!!

 

[Jim]

It was a huge no-call that allowed Mississippi State to make it to the finals. McGowan absolutely clobbered Hynes-Allen as she went for the winning layup with 1 second on the clock in regulation causing her to miss. One out of two made free throws there and Louisville would have been in the final.

 

[ASweet3781]

I guarantee if one of our players was hip checked at mid court going for a go ahead layup with 8 seconds in a tied National Title game and no foul was called and we lost at the buzzer, this place would literally be on fire. And rightly so. Bringing up previous missed opportunities or calls wouldn't be brought up as a justification for that horrific miss either.

 

[WLT1717]

I thought that the officiating at the Final Four was even worse than normal. I'd call it horrible. I thought it clearly favored State and N.D. on Friday and N.D. last night. Mabrey committed 2 blatant fouls in the last minute that weren't called. In Friday's UConn game, the refs called almost nothing for 3 quarters, then called almost everything. They were not even consistent within the game. One would hope that it would balance out, but in OT games and very narrow victories, there is a high probability that a few bad calls or noncalls determine the game. Recall the shot clock issue in the Rutgers v. Tennessee game. Or the noncall that cost Minnesota the 2016 WNBA championship.

Nailed it.

 

[WLT1717]

Either Mabrey committed a foul or William, a highly polished, elite-caliber guard and ball handler (see 2017 semi winning bucket courtesy of espn) inexplicably fell down of her own accord en route to attempting a game winning shot or assist in the ‘ship. The latter seems unfathomable.

 

[JordyG]

When does a missed call matter in a game? Never. When does a poor shooting back court matter in a game? Every time.

 

[Grad1990]

When does a missed call matter in a game? Never. When does a poor shooting back court matter in a game? Every time.

The ref's game changing, horrible non-call with almost no time left on the clock didn't matter because guards shot poorly?

Really?

 

[JordyG]

The ref's game changing, horrible non-call with almost no time left on the clock didn't matter because guards shot poorly?

Really?

Man, if our back court shot 40% for the game and 35% from 3 we wouldn't be having this conversation. Yet you and others want to talk about everything as the cause for losing except poor play from UConn's players. Ridiculous. What effect did that final call have on their poor shooting night? Did any of you watch the ND/MSS game? I'm sure both teams had plenty to complain about, but a good team overcomes any and all adversity to win. The stuff you're talking about is blind and partisan irrelevance. The truth, the real bottom line is, this team wasn't ready to win a championship. End of story.

 

[Orangutan]

Either Mabrey committed a foul or William, a highly polished, elite-caliber guard and ball handler (see 2017 semi winning bucket courtesy of espn) inexplicably fell down of her own accord en route to attempting a game winning shot or assist in the ‘ship. The latter seems unfathomable.

Third possibility (as I discussed in another thread): Incidental contact. Mabrey gets the ball cleanly and then she and William collide.

 

[JordyG]

Third possibility (as I discussed in another thread): Incidental contact. Mabrey gets the ball cleanly and then she and William collide.

Stop O-man. Stop trying to explain how your team beat UConn fair and square. For some here it will never happen. I however believe what my eyes told me. Congratulations to your team. Great year for you guys, Coach Of The Year for a deserving Muffet, and Arike will go down in history as one of the great clutch shooters in WCBB history. Next year you guys will be even tougher. Can't wait to play ND again.

 

[willtalk]

Calls at the beginning of the game do not have as much impact on the outcome as calls closer to the end of the game. Those at the beginning allow the teams more time to make adjustments in respect to the game situation. The closer the call is to the end of the game the less time and fewer options to compensate become available. That is one reason you see deliberate fouls at the end of the game and not during the rest of the game. Deliberate fouling is purely a time running out end of game adjustment. This is just common sense.

 

[01Neaggrad02]

Calls at the beginning of the game do not have as much impact on the outcome as calls closer to the end of the game. Those at the beginning allow the teams more time to make adjustments in respect to the game situation. The closer the call is to the end of the game the less time and fewer options to compensate become available. That is one reason you see deliberate fouls at the end of the game and not during the rest of the game. Deliberate fouling is purely a time running out end of game adjustment. This is just common sense.

This has to be one of the most nonsensical statements of all time. Fouls at the begin have just as much an impact, if not more.... because it changes how players play. KLS had 4 fouls... two or three were bogus. She had to be extra careful and could not take chances late in the game....

 

[UConnCat]

Any other game it's called.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Any other game it

I hadn’t seen the replay. Yes, indeed, that’s a foul.