What's going on at Louisville?

[speedoo]

Just to make an academic point: all of the commentary on this issue puts the onus on the coach, in this case, Walz. Is it possible that the potential player bears some responsibility? Did their grades/performance/effort/interest/focus/attitude slip? I don't know bupkus about this particular situation, I'll be the first to admit - but, having coached high school girls sports for eight years, sophmores and juniors in high school aren't exactly calm, consistent, reliable human beings. If the verbal was accepted with the understanding that progress would continue, or certain benchmarks would be met...

Again, I don't know. I'm just saying that in any situation where there's a deal, an agreement, there are two parties to it.

We are talking about two players, not one. Both from Kentucky IIRC. Makes your theory less likely IMO.

 

[Outside Shot]

With Schimmel and Smith in the backcourt, they should still be alright in the near term, but theoretically they are recruiting their replacements. It's a tenuous situation for every team to have to deal with. Impact players are few and far between.

 

[Kibitzer]

Several years and about two earlier iterations of The Boneyard, there was a continuing linked article about "The Recruiting of Saona Chapman."

Saona was a really good PG who played on a state champion team at Norwich Free Academy. (I remember her well, I was at that state final game when NFA beat Norwalk in the Fairfield U. gym.)

I recall that at one point in this detailed and enlightening narrative, ND Coach Muffet McGraw (the paragon of recruiting virtue) did actually withdraw a schollie offer. She withdrew from a player (not sure if it was Chapman or domeone else) who was having difficulty making up her mind, while another (better) player was ready to commit.

If my memory is accurate (don't count on it), this might be a useful tidbit when considering either the ethics or procedure to be applied in such a situation.

Anybody else remember Saona Chapman? Don't everybody talk at once.

 

[Outside Shot]

How highly was she regarded? (Chapman)

I don't think we're talking about offers withdrawn in this case- at least one "Top 25-30" player and both already committed. Louisville has some work to do between now and signing day (November).

 

[frankenclyde8]

This story (Saona Chapman) is nicely documented here.

http://www.timemasheen.com/bb/saona2.html

 

[Bayareahusky]

What is the latest on Mercedes' time frame?

 

[jennyo70]

She intends I have in home visits with coaches, take her official visits and decide before the high school season starts.
I am reading that from a lot of recruits. This class has taken their time, but I expect it is going to be a very, very busy early fall.

 

[Kibitzer]

This story (Saona Chapman) is nicely documented here.

http://www.timemasheen.com/bb/saona2.html

My recollection was close enough for Boneyard speculation.

Not only did McGraw but also Kay Yow withdrew scholarship offers to Saona and the tone of the linked article suggests that this is not an isolated occurrence. But I don't think Saona stayed at Rutgers, but her teammate, Rappahahn,played for Stanford for four years.

I now recall that ('way back in the day) when Geno was after Kerry Bascom (perhaps his first real blue chip recruit) her father advised Geno to, um, take his foot off the pedal and leave her alone. He did and she came to UConn.

I guess the moral of these stories is as Kenny Rogers sang:

"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run."

 

[Vowelguy]

Not only did McGraw but also Kay Yow withdrew scholarship offers to Saona and the tone of the linked article suggests that this is not an isolated occurrence.

Did anyone think it was? I'm pretty sure everyone does it, including Geno. Actually I suspect he doesn't anymore, but only because he has the luxury to be a bit more methodical about it.

As far as I know as "scholarship offer" is just a statement. IF a player hasn't verballed and the situation has cooled, I have no problem with the school changing its mind.

 

[Kibitzer]

I brought up Saona Chapman because I recalled that she had (at least) one coach tell her flat out that her scholarship offer was off the table.

There was some earlier discussion in this thread about this sort of activity and I tried to feed into it.

The linked Chapman story provides a good picture of recruiting from a recruit's perspective. Also, it illustrates how things can go awry. Saona did not accept offers from Notre Dame, Virginia Tech or NC State, went to Rutgers, left afte a year and played our her career at Richmond. Excellent player, bright girl, unfortunate choice.

 

[speedoo]

Did anyone think it was? I'm pretty sure everyone does it, including Geno. Actually I suspect he doesn't anymore, but only because he has the luxury to be a bit more methodical about it.

As far as I know as "scholarship offer" is just a statement. IF a player hasn't verballed and the situation has cooled, I have no problem with the school changing its mind.

I'm sure plenty of coaches withdraw offers BEFORE THEY ARE ACCEPTED. But remember, these players had verbally committed to Louisville before decommiting. If Louisville did in fact withdraw those scholarship offers, it would be an exceptional situation.

 

[Vowelguy]

I'm sure plenty of coaches withdraw offers BEFORE THEY ARE ACCEPTED.

Ok, but I was referring to the Saona Chapman article. There, the offers were withdrawn before she had accepted them.

 

[HuskyNan]

This story (Saona Chapman) is nicely documented here.

http://www.timemasheen.com/bb/saona2.html

The webmaster is a Boneyarder

 

[jennyo70]

Louisville did not withdraw offers. This is a disappointment to fans who follow ky high school basketball.
I am of the opinion HG has Epps highly under rated. Epps would/will ( if she still chooses Louisville) start from day 1 at the point and Shoni would slide to the 2.
I am not sure if the door remains open for Rogers, but the door remains wide open for Epps.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Louisville did not withdraw offers. This is a disappointment to fans who follow ky high school basketball.

Most schools do not withdraw offers in these situations, but do explain the reality of situations.

Regarding Clair Watkins, she was told that due to the recruitment of players like Amber Henson and Elizabeth Williams, it was very likely that she would not play very much, if at all. The scholarship was still going to be honored (Watkins' father first claimed to the media that the scholarship was withdrawn, but later admitted that it had not been).

The truth is that recruiting over players happens quite a bit, especially when early commitments are made. Watkins ended up at Vanderbilt, a fine academic institution with a good tradition in women's basketball. And, personally, I would rather the coaches be up front about playing time than have Watkins come to Duke, discover that she would not be playing, then have to transfer to another school.

If she simply wanted a Duke degree and basketball was the means to get that degree, then she might have stayed committed to Duke. But if she actually wanted to play and be a regular contributor (or even a starter), that would not have happened at Duke.

But this is the ugly side of the recruiting "business," where student-athletes are, in a way, commodified (and the "athlete" becomes more important than the "student"). And the coaches and institutions rarely emerge unscathed or looking good.

 

[Outside Shot]

Cam, I remember seeing the original story about the family being pissed that Duke dumped Watkins. Do you have a link or something for the subsequent story in which the dad retracts that?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cam, I remember seeing the original story about the family being pissed that Duke dumped Watkins. Do you have a link or something for the subsequent story in which the dad retracts that?

"The team would honor the scholarship they had offered, but she likely wouldn't play."
"Nancy Watkins remembers hearing the same, but also that Duke never said it was pulling the scholarship. But, Nancy remembers: "She said, 'If Clair comes to Duke, she will sit on the bench for three years, and she may never see the floor.' "
http://www.newsobserver.com/2009/11/15/192689/early-warning-for-some-recruits.html

Duke rescinds offer to Butler's Clair Watkins
Duke has taken back its scholarship offer to Butler High girls' basketball star Clair Watkins, just weeks before the early-signing period, her parents said.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=167&f=1387&t=3348684&p=5

Duke Offer Still Good, but Watkins Wanst Out (archived, original date October 15, 2009)
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...rpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

 

[Outside Shot]

Thanks for sharing that. Really bad experience for that family. Better that they went somewhere that genuinely wanted Clair. It's a cold business. Sucked for Duke to be in that situation too, but at least they got their message across and didn't suffer any collateral damage that I've seen.

 

[Outside Shot]

JennyO, is Asia Taylor hurt? Did she have hip surgery? I thought she became a good player last season.

 

[jennyo70]

Yep! Poor kid. Her senior year in high school had a freak injury and shattered her ankle and leg, IIRC. She was just quoted last year, middle of her junior year(3 years later), that she finally felt like the athlete she was prior to the break.

It was a minor hip surgery, just tweeted today she is officially off of crutches. I have read somewhere she will be ready to go by the time te season starts.

Shawnta Dyer had a break out season last year, IMHO. I think Sara Hammond is poised to do the same this year.

JennyO, is Asia Taylor hurt? Did she have hip surgery? I thought she became a good player last season.

 

[Louisville]

Interesting things have been said over Kyvinn & Makayla's re opening their recruitments lately. Their HS and AAU coach is a huge UK fan and dates Kyvin's mom. Apparently he is looking to get into the college ranks and using those two to do so. He probably bad mouthed Walz and told Kyvinn she would get recruited over... doubt they end up at UK since Mitchell learned from Pat to do things the right way when it comes to recruiting...LOL

 

[HarperValley]

Louisville where were you when the high school coach called all you cronies out on the UL board by name? When a guy registers with his own name and tells whats going on all the big bad apple message board posters run away. By the way, UCONN is gonna get involved with Epps before its over. Watch and see.

 

[bbsamjj]

RU fans will absolutely remember Saona Chapman. Interestingly, the RU staff decided to take Chapman and stop pursuing Nicole Louden, a Jersey girl who ended up at Auburn and had an entire book written on her.

Chapman was a part of a 6 member recruiting class that included both Cappie Pondexter and Chelsea Newton. Chapman's first, and only, year at RU was the dreadful year that Cappie sat out and the team went 9-20. After that year, both her and a center, Amber Petillion, transferred to Richmond.

Sometimes I wonder if Cappie had played that year if it would have all turned out differently. Saona was the starting point guard that year and often times got abused by opposing defenders, but I think she would have become a very good player at RU had she stayed. That being said, it was likely not a great fit, and I was glad she found success at a different program.