What We Learned from Bay-Tenn

[Phil]

Baylor:

• Can not play its best and still get a huge road win.
• Can take a hit -- down 8 in the 2nd half -- and overcome a rowdy crowd.
• Other players are not afraid to take shots.

Tenn:

• Can hang with the #1 team in the country. This team is definitely a contender.
• Stricklen showed that she is All-American potential.
• Stuck with Baylor until the end despite 2-22 shooting from its guards. While they won't go far if that performance continues, if they improve even a little, Vols become all the tougher.
• Coaches showed some rare discipline in not throwing every available player on the floor, but just going with the effective ones. They may be finally learning.

I agree, nice analysis.

 

[doggydaddy]

Baylor:

• Can not play its best and still get a huge road win.
• Can take a hit -- down 8 in the 2nd half -- and overcome a rowdy crowd.
• Other players are not afraid to take shots.

Tenn:

• Can hang with the #1 team in the country. This team is definitely a contender.
• Stricklen showed that she is All-American potential.
• Stuck with Baylor until the end despite 2-22 shooting from its guards. While they won't go far if that performance continues, if they improve even a little, Vols become all the tougher.
• Coaches showed some rare discipline in not throwing every available player on the floor, but just going with the effective ones. They may be finally learning.

Nice analysis, but there were some negatives that you skipped over.

Baylor:

• Only 2 players really scored for them, although a couple of the others did hit a few clutch shots as you mentioned. They will need to spread the scoring around more.
• Their secondary scorer (Sims) was 4-15 and 1-6 on 3's. not good and that will hurt them as it did last year.
• They were KILLED on the boards and were fortunate that Tennessee shot so poorly (although Baylor's defense had a lot to do with that.
• Griner played 40 minutes, Hayden 38 and Sims 36. Against a pressing and running team, they could loose steam in the 2nd half.
• Pope and Williams were supposed to be great and I didn't see it at all.

Tennessee:

• Their bench scored 2 points and was 1-19. Awful. And the 4th ranked recruit saw 4 minutes.
• The SEC FOY was just awful, and while showing the discipline to keep her on the bench, the other players looked a little gassed to me. They could have used a rest.
• That same SEC FOY was put in to pressure and then foul once Tennessee was behind late. She had no clue and didn't do what she was supposed to do.
• While their savior at point had 4 assists and 1 TO, she struggled from the field again and has a long way to go. And if she keeps playing 30+ minutes like this game, she will be exhausted by the time the tourney rolls around
• Pat looked to be totally disengaged with the team except for a few situations.
  

 

[UConnCat]

Tennessee:

• Their bench scored 2 points and was 1-19. Awful. And the 4th ranked recruit saw 4 minutes.
• The SEC FOY was just awful, and while showing the discipline to keep her on the bench, the other players looked a little gassed to me. They could have used a rest.
• That same SEC FOY was put in to pressure and then foul once Tennessee was behind late. She had no clue and didn't do what she was supposed to do.
• While their savior at point had 4 assists and 1 TO, she struggled from the field again and has a long way to go. And if she keeps playing 30+ minutes like this game, she will be exhausted by the time the tourney rolls around
• Pat looked to be totally disengaged with the team except for a few situations.

Simmons shot 1-12 in the first half but I thought only one of her shot attempts was less than a quality shot. In the past she's taken some ill-advised shots but I didn't think that was the case yesterday. In fact, she passed up an open shot to get the ball to Stricklen who was obviously hot. Simmons was just missing her shots. Massengale, on the other hand, did take some questionable shots. There were a few that were contested and taken too early in the possession.

Massengale was on the bench for 2-3 minutes in the 2nd half and Stricklen took over the point guard responsibilities rather than putting Simmons in the game.

 

[Vowelguy]

Simmons shot 1-12 in the first half but I thought only one of her shot attempts was less than a quality shot. In the past she's taken some ill-advised shots but I didn't think that was the case yesterday. In fact, she passed up an open shot to get the ball to Stricklen who was obviously hot. Simmons was just missing her shots.

I didn't watch the game as closely as you, but I disagree. Once on a 2-on-1 break, she clearly should've passed, but took it herself and missed badly. On several other occasions, her shots seemed rushed or forced.

Here'd be an interesting stat: Simmons' shot-to-pass ratio. It might be >1.

 

[UConnCat]

I didn't watch the game as closely as you, but I disagree. Once on a 2-on-1 break, she clearly should've passed, but took it herself and missed badly. On several other occasions, her shots seemed rushed or forced.

Here'd be an interesting stat: Simmons' shot-to-pass ratio. It might be >1.

I think I know the play you're talking about and my initial reaction was that she should've passed the ball, but after watching it again I think her decision to go aggressively to the basket was okay. I've been critical of Simmons' shot selection in the past but I didn't think it was a problem yesterday. Like I said, I actually questioned more of Massengale's shots than Simmons'.

 

[wire chief]

This was a very good game to watch. I think Geo could get more hustle from BG. She kind of just lopes up and down the court.
Good to see all the fan support for Coach Summit. And wasn't Coach Mulkey's blue vinyl (?) jacket interesting. (or maybe it was leather)

She can certainly afford leather.

 

[tnvolfan65]

I used the "complementary player" term and didn't get it from Hoopgurlz. It was said to me by someone who had watched her play several times. The point was simply that a #3 ranking should be for special, impact players and this person didn't put her in that category. She looks to be very skilled and will no doubt have a lot of success at Tenn.

She will be a special impact player for us. Just probably not this year. But she is playin behind 3 top 10 recruits in their own right who have 3-4 years experience over her. There's not a single player ranked after her that plays her position that would be playing more minutes for us.

If KML had come to Tenn, she wouldn't be getting as many minutes as she is at Uconn. I'm not going to say she would have the same amount of minutes as Burdick does, but who are you going to sit? Spani or Stricklen? Not with how they've been playing...

 

[Icebear]

Spani. KML is better as a shooter and defensively.

 

[doggydaddy]

She will be a special impact player for us. Just probably not this year. But she is playin behind 3 top 10 recruits in their own right who have 3-4 years experience over her. There's not a single player ranked after her that plays her position that would be playing more minutes for us.

If KML had come to Tenn, she wouldn't be getting as many minutes as she is at Uconn. I'm not going to say she would have the same amount of minutes as Burdick does, but who are you going to sit? Spani or Stricklen? Not with how they've been playing...

It's really 2-3 years more experience.

Spani played 31 minutes and Stricklen played 39. The number 3 recruit from last year can't get minutes from the #13 from 2009 and #8 from 2008? Clearly Baylor put the clamps on Stricklen. Maybe a few more minutes to get some rest might have helped? And from my perspective, Spani was having trouble getting her shot off at times. Maybe the larger Burdick could have helped? I always thought that Burdick was a 3/4 so why not a few minutes from Johnson, who played 28 minutes.

Burdick played 3 minutes. Even 2-3 from each player would get her to 10 minutes or so. It's clear that Pat thinks she is not ready. You are trying to portray Burdick's lack of minutes as only because Tennessee's roster is so good. I disagree.

 

[speedoo]

If KML had come to Tenn, she wouldn't be getting as many minutes as she is at Uconn. ..

That is an interesting statement. How much have you seen KML play? How many UConn games this year?

 

[EricSD]

Spani. KML is better as a shooter and defensively.

agreed. perhaps based on need, she's playing more minutes than she would be at tennessee, but she's already better than simmons, spani, manning, burdick, and it's too soon to tell if she's better than stricklen. KML isn't a starter at UCONN either but she gets the minutes because she's that good. can't keep her off the court.

you know (not talking to ice here), if wishes were pennies i'd be rich. my point is i read from a lot of tennessee fans how the refs called the game too tight (never mind all the tennessee fouls on the O-boards in the first half that weren't called), or that they didn't shoot well, or whatever. if the refs hadn't called the game so tight. if our kids made their FT's or shots they normally make. blah blah.

well if UCONN scored more, they'd have beaten ND in the final 4 last year. bottom line is that tenn. had a 38-31 lead partly because Baylor was playing like crap. but tennessee was also forcing them to play like crap. they were jacking up 3's and Griner was not touching the ball. they finally made a concerted effort to get the ball to her and tennessee could not stop her.

i was impressed with some of what i saw from tennessee, but bottom line they lost. they were beaten. they did not lose because of the refs, or bad shooting, or whatever. the lost because baylor outplayed them and outscored them by about 16 points over the final 16 minutes.

if they played 10 times, perhaps tennessee would win 3 or maybe 4 of the games, but it's easy to say "if we did X,Y and Z, then we would have won". well yeah. every team that loses a relatively close game could say that.

 

[UConnCat]

It's really 2-3 years more experience.

Spani played 31 minutes and Stricklen played 39. The number 3 recruit from last year can't get minutes from the #13 from 2009 and #8 from 2008? Clearly Baylor put the clamps on Stricklen. Maybe a few more minutes to get some rest might have helped? And from my perspective, Spani was having trouble getting her shot off at times. Maybe the larger Burdick could have helped? I always thought that Burdick was a 3/4 so why not a few minutes from Johnson, who played 28 minutes.

Burdick played 3 minutes. Even 2-3 from each player would get her to 10 minutes or so. It's clear that Pat thinks she is not ready. You are trying to portray Burdick's lack of minutes as only because Tennessee's roster is so good. I disagree.

I think this is the point. If a highly ranked player is truly an impact player, a coach is going to find a way to get her minutes.

 

[DaddyChoc]

every board has those that complain about the refs... folks here are still talking about the fathom fouls against ND in the tourney

 

[doggydaddy]

every board has those that complain about the refs... folks here are still talking about the fathom fouls against ND in the tourney

I think specific calls are fair game to complain about. That breakaway where Johnson was called for a foul was terrible. But when the complaints are more general, then it's just sour grapes on any board.

 

[Icebear]

every board has those that complain about the refs... folks here are still talking about the fathom fouls against ND in the tourney

There is, also, a difference between talking about the impact of bad calls and saying it cost you the game. As Geno has said before you must be prepared to overcome every obstacle so that in the end nothing stands in your way or denies you your goal.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I think specific calls are fair game to complain about. That breakaway where Johnson was called for a foul was terrible. But when the complaints are more general, then it's just sour grapes on any board.

I agree DD

 

[tnvolfan65]

Spani is shooting better than KML from the floor and from 3. Not sure how you can say she's a better shooter. And yes, her and Strick were ranked lower in their respective classes, but Strick is a top 3 player in her class's and Spani is playing great now that she is finally healthy. She's also our best shooter, and we need her scoring.

I've just seen the Uconn-Stanford game speedoo. I was impressed with her shooting. All your guards on going to get shots within yalls offense. If she can continue to hit them, she'll put up big numbers.

And we played Izzy for Johnson because she's bigger than Burdick and can play in the paint. She posts up ad attacks the glass. I haven't seen Burdick do that yet.

KML is a perfect fit for UConn this year. She can't stay on the bench because, at least against Stanford, the offense was irratic and stagnant without her. She's probably the best player on yalls team, coming off the bench has nothing to do with that.

Of course there is going to be talk like that after a loss, but the talk on here even before the game was Tenn will only win if the refs call it their way. To see that mentioned as part of the reason we were even in the game was way off based. In general though, our fan reaction has been positive and encouraging because we played with energy and effort. I'll never be satisfied with moral victories but after the UVA loss, it was good to see.

 

[HuskyNan]

Spani is shooting better than KML from the floor and from 3. Not sure how you can say she's a better shooter.

Kaleena
FG % - 45.9% (34-74)
3 pt shots - 40.0% (16-40)
Rebounds - 6.7 rpg
Assists - 2.0 apg
TOs - 4 in 6 games
Assist/TO ratio - 3.0 to 1 (12 assists, 4 TOs)
Steals - 1.7 spg

Taber
FG % - 42.5% (23-54)
3 pt shots - 46.4% (13-28)
Rebounds -3.5 rpg
Assists -2.0 apg
TOs -8 in 4 games
Assist/TO ratio -1.0 to 1 (8 assists, 8 TOs)
Steals - .75 spg

Taber is a wonderful shooter and has a warrior's attitude but, speaking as a UConn fan, I prefer Kaleena's more well-rounded game. And the kid is a freshman!

 

[meyers7]

I agree DD

I'm recording this.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Kaleena
FG % - 45.9% (34-74)
3 pt shots - 40.0% (16-40)
Rebounds - 6.7 rpg
Assists - 2.0 apg
TOs - 4 in 6 games
Assist/TO ratio - 3.0 to 1 (12 assists, 4 TOs)
Steals - 1.7 spg

Taber
FG % - 42.5% (23-54)
3 pt shots - 46.4% (13-28)
Rebounds -3.5 rpg
Assists -2.0 apg
TOs -8 in 4 games
Assist/TO ratio -1.0 to 1 (8 assists, 8 TOs)
Steals - .75 spg

Taber is a wonderful shooter and has a warrior's attitude but, speaking as a UConn fan, I prefer Kaleena's more well-rounded game. And the kid is a freshman!

I stand corrected about the fg%. However I'll take the rest of those stats with a grain of salt. Holy Cross, Pacific, FDU and Buffalo are some good stat stuffing teams.

 

[UConnCat]

I stand corrected about the fg%. However I'll take the rest of those stats with a grain of salt. Holy Cross, Pacific, FDU and Buffalo are some good stat stuffing teams.

Actually, KML's best games have been against UConn's toughest opponents to date: Stanford and Dayton. In those 2 games she's averaged 24 pts, shot 57% from the floor, 50% on 3-pointers, grabbed 7 rpg, 1.5 steals and 0 turnovers. She had only 1 assist in those two games.

We're only 6 games in to KML's career. We believe she'll prove to be a big-time player who performs best in big-time games. She'll have plenty of opportunities this year and beyond.

 

[HuskyNan]

I stand corrected about the fg%. However I'll take the rest of those stats with a grain of salt. Holy Cross, Pacific, FDU and Buffalo are some good stat stuffing teams.

You are forgetting one opponent...

Kaleena's stats vs Stanford

25 pts, (10-17, 58.8% fg%)
8 rebounds, 3 offensive
1 assist, 0 TOs
3 steals
while guarding Nneka Ogwumike

 

[EricSD]

i think she was on Chiney in the first half when Nneka went out with the fouls. i know they had Kelly guarding her too at times, but i think she guarded both the O sisters...

 

[doggydaddy]

Spani is shooting better than KML from the floor and from 3. Not sure how you can say she's a better shooter.

It's easy. Lewis is a better shooter. Certainly by repuation. And the rest of her game is better too. So, you can disagree, but on this board, you are in the minority. Using stats from 4 games and 6 games respectively? Short sighted.

And yes, her and Strick were ranked lower in their respective classes, but Strick is a top 3 player in her class's and Spani is playing great now that she is finally healthy. She's also our best shooter, and we need her scoring.

Strick was #8 as I mentioned to you in another post. Johnson was the #3 rated player.

And we played Izzy for Johnson because she's bigger than Burdick and can play in the paint. She posts up ad attacks the glass. I haven't seen Burdick do that yet.

Burdick was the #3 recruit. Played on the USA team with several of the freshman this year. And she can't get more than 3 minutes? She is averaging under 8 minutes a game. Keep ignoring her lack of progress. Hopefully when Tennessee plays some easier teams, and make no mistake about it, but do play some, she will get more time. Stricklen needed a blow a few times and maybe Burdick could have helped.

KML is a perfect fit for UConn this year. She can't stay on the bench because, at least against Stanford, the offense was irratic and stagnant without her. She's probably the best player on yalls team, coming off the bench has nothing to do with that.

Lewis would be the perfect fit for ANY team. She was the #1 recruit coming in. And clearly, along with Williams, the best players in the freshman class. And Lewis is the most ready to LEAD a team to the championship. Just ask Kara Lawson. She said that at the half of the Baylor/UT game.
Of course there is going to be talk like that after a loss, but the talk on here even before the game was Tenn will only win if the refs call it their way. To see that mentioned as part of the reason we were even in the game was way off based. In general though, our fan reaction has been positive and encouraging because we played with energy and effort. I'll never be satisfied with moral victories but after the UVA loss, it was good to see.

The only real ref complaining is coming from The Summitt. And it's how the refs impacted the game in favor of Baylor. On that board or this board, complaining abou the refs is pathetic.

Moral victory? Too Funny.

 

[speedoo]

I stand corrected about the fg%. However I'll take the rest of those stats with a grain of salt. Holy Cross, Pacific, FDU and Buffalo are some good stat stuffing teams.

Really, you should stick to talking about Tennessee players. It's clear that you have no idea how good Kaleena is. I'd say you might see her value after you've seen her play more than just one game but your bias probably won't allow that, so you are better off just talking about the LV's.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I'm recording this.

with pleasure...

 

[doggydaddy]

with pleasure...

We agree plenty. Sometimes we disagree.....loudly.

Either way, it's all good.

 

[cardfan]

You are forgetting one opponent...

Kaleena's stats vs Stanford

25 pts, (10-17, 58.8% fg%)
8 rebounds, 3 offensive
1 assist, 0 TOs
3 steals
while guarding Nneka Ogwumike

whose backcourt is very young and weaker than UConn's.

I didn't see her guarding Nneka, but will double check the DVR.

 

[HuskyNan]

whose backcourt is very young and weaker than UConn's.

I didn't see her guarding Nneka, but will double check the DVR.

You know that Kaleena plays the 3/4, right? UConn's backcourt players are Bria Hartley, Tiffany Hayes, Caroline Doty, Kelly Faris and Brianna Banks. There are also no All Americans on the UConn squad this year, unlike Stanford.

BTW, Kaleena is only a freshman herself and the Stanford game was the third of her college career.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Stricklen is a top 3 player now for this class. Se could even be the number 2 pick in the next draft. Same way that Nneka is the best player in this class regardless of their high school rankings.

I agree Stricklen could have used some rest in the second half. Manning, Simmons, or Burdick all could have spelled her. Cierra will see more time as the year goes on. They've played four games. All I'm saying is don't write her off or imply she was overrated this early in her career. She came in to a veteran team loaded at her positions. It was one of my worries when we were recruiting E. Williams. If we had landed her, but still had a healthy Vicki, Cain, and Brewer, she would have been struggling for playing time as well. Especially this early in the season. However, also similar to Burdick's situation, she would have been a shoe-in starter for the next 3 years.

And I never said Spani was better than KML. Just that you can't say KML is a better shooter based on their stats so far. Her reputation is heresay. She's had two 0fer games already this year.