What the transfer portal is doing to high school recruiting (merged)
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Blue Huskie
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Lots of high schoolers will be going to the "less powerful" teams. And there it will be a like a minor leagues for the transfer portal. When the more successful ones rise to the top they will enter the portal and then get to play their last 2 or 3 years with the "big teams" for NIL $$$.
I agree 100%. Most mid-major teams will still get HS kids. They almost have to, as not a lot of portal people are looking to transfer to a lower end mid-major. These schools will become the farm system / developmental league for the big NIL guys.
HuskyNan
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I hope that people will stop complaining about the non-football Big East, which bleeds its best players to the P4 schools. Think Aneesah Morrow, Lucy Olsen, et al. The Big East will never be a power, just a minor league conference for the big leagues.
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I do not believe that NIL caused “less opportunities” for high school students. There was a temporary blip caused by the additional year of Covid eligibility. That certainly reduced the overall number of spots available for high school students. Now that that is gone, the same number of teams need the same number of players.
The only thing that might change is the location of where the opportunities are to play. If you are a top 100 recruit, there might be a bit more pressure to sign quickly. I think what you will find is that athletes who signed on to top teams, but would have stayed on the bench for four years, are more likely to leave for better playing time. The very top stars are likely to be unimpacted because their value comes from their brand recognition and not from their schools NIL money. I know we keep seeing dollars that athletes have “demanded”, but until there is hard evidence that those dollars are actually being met, I’m taking it for what it’s worth. It’s just something somebody said.
There will be a window of opportunity for athletes who flew under the radar to transfer to the top teams and be incentivized to do so.
The one thing I do wonder about is how much this rewards coaches who recruit badly out of high school and have to rebuild their team every year because their players either transfer or don’t pan out. At least for a while, it might be easier for them to keep plugging holes, but even then, anthletes are going to catch on eventually. How many years of turnover does it take before an athlete realizes that a program is not going to meet their goals.
The only thing that might change is the location of where the opportunities are to play. If you are a top 100 recruit, there might be a bit more pressure to sign quickly. I think what you will find is that athletes who signed on to top teams, but would have stayed on the bench for four years, are more likely to leave for better playing time. The very top stars are likely to be unimpacted because their value comes from their brand recognition and not from their schools NIL money. I know we keep seeing dollars that athletes have “demanded”, but until there is hard evidence that those dollars are actually being met, I’m taking it for what it’s worth. It’s just something somebody said.
There will be a window of opportunity for athletes who flew under the radar to transfer to the top teams and be incentivized to do so.
The one thing I do wonder about is how much this rewards coaches who recruit badly out of high school and have to rebuild their team every year because their players either transfer or don’t pan out. At least for a while, it might be easier for them to keep plugging holes, but even then, anthletes are going to catch on eventually. How many years of turnover does it take before an athlete realizes that a program is not going to meet their goals.
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At some point these kids will need to sign early or get lost in the shuffle.
HuskyNan
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It’s not just NIL. The NCAA used to require sitting out a year after a transfer which discouraged players from simply quitting one school and moving on. Plus, some conferences added an additional year to discourage poaching within the league. But now players can transfer and be immediately eligible. Theoretically, a player could go to 4 different schools within her available 5 years of eligibility now. It’s nuts.
cohenzone
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That’s what has happened already in our football program. It is a feeder to the big boys while we are a jump up from some “lesser” programs or a search for playing time from the major conferences.
It will be interesting to see the fan response since they create the pool of money that funds the game and enterprise.
In general, it seems that we're talking about a shift from players who come in as freshman and who we get to know as people and athletes over a 4 year period. Now, it feels like it's going to a situation where each fall, we fans check in to see who is on the team this year under the 'best team we could buy' banner for year X, and we then decide how much we want to invest of ourselves in these new people and this new team.
Personally, I've liked getting to know our athletes and watching them develop - it builds my loyalty. I care more, and I'm watching, and I donate and pay more for seats and the TV experience.
I'm kinda thinking I'll care less and be less willing to pay under the new model
. Overall could be less money coming in for the hired guns in the new annual version of the best team we could buy for that year.... Especially if the play is mediocre as it sometimes (too often) is
In general, it seems that we're talking about a shift from players who come in as freshman and who we get to know as people and athletes over a 4 year period. Now, it feels like it's going to a situation where each fall, we fans check in to see who is on the team this year under the 'best team we could buy' banner for year X, and we then decide how much we want to invest of ourselves in these new people and this new team.
Personally, I've liked getting to know our athletes and watching them develop - it builds my loyalty. I care more, and I'm watching, and I donate and pay more for seats and the TV experience.
I'm kinda thinking I'll care less and be less willing to pay under the new model
. Overall could be less money coming in for the hired guns in the new annual version of the best team we could buy for that year.... Especially if the play is mediocre as it sometimes (too often) isI completely agree. My interest has been to watch the development of students both as players and as human beings. I've pretty much lost interest in men's basketball due to one and gone as well as the style of play. I root for the players, not the uniforms. I did not attend UConn, but lived in CT for 30 years.It will be interesting to see the fan response since they create the pool of money that funds the game and enterprise.
In general, it seems that we're talking about a shift from players who come in as freshman and who we get to know as people and athletes over a 4 year period. Now, it feels like it's going to a situation where each fall, we fans check in to see who is on the team this year under the 'best team we could buy' banner for year X, and we then decide how much we want to invest of ourselves in these new people and this new team.
Personally, I've liked getting to know our athletes and watching them develop - it builds my loyalty. I care more, and I'm watching, and I donate and pay more for seats and the TV experience.
I'm kinda thinking I'll care less and be less willing to pay under the new model
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It is a matter of will. The Big East schools seem to be having no trouble coming up with plenty of money to be competitive in men's basketball.
Non-football schools have an advantage in a world with capped spending, because they do not have account for what is by far the largest expense.
They just have to want to be competitive in women's basketball. And that is the problem. They don't care to be competitive.
Sifaka
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Here's where some fresh, out of the box, thinking may be useful.
Instead of fighting against player-as-employee rulings by the NLRB, schools should embrace and encourage it, and promote unions of players. Why? So that the schools can negotiate contracts that include provisions for multi-year enrollments with pay-to-play.
Example: Offer rising freshman a one year contract with NIL/pay-to-play compensation of $50,000, or a multi-year contact @ $75,00/year for two years, $85,000/year for three years, etc.
The better programs will only offer one year contacts to “project” players or end of the bench fill ins.
Instead of fighting against player-as-employee rulings by the NLRB, schools should embrace and encourage it, and promote unions of players. Why? So that the schools can negotiate contracts that include provisions for multi-year enrollments with pay-to-play.
Example: Offer rising freshman a one year contract with NIL/pay-to-play compensation of $50,000, or a multi-year contact @ $75,00/year for two years, $85,000/year for three years, etc.
The better programs will only offer one year contacts to “project” players or end of the bench fill ins.
HuskyNan
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You know this how? DePaul’s Doug Bruno recruited and mentored Aneesah Morrow into an All American and she bolted for LSU. I don’t think UConn can match LSU’s NIL because of the SEC cha-ching from football.
As for your first paragraph, have you actually looked at any published Athletics Department’s annual reports or are you just guessing? UConn spent $39.1 million on the men’s basketball team and $38 million on football in 2023-24 vs $25.2 for the women’s bball team. Does that mean UConn cares more about the guys? No, if you read the financials, you’ll see the men bring in more money and need a larger infrastructure to handle the logistics regarding the teams.
The transfer portal is a disaster for mid-majors and non-P4 schools.
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Too true! It’s hard to see how things get better as big schools will always have more resources.
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I am talking about "NIL" budgets (or whatever we will be calling direct revenue sharing with players). Money buys players. If you want to compete in the future, you will have to come up with the money for those players.
St. John's is reported over $10 million for the men's program. How much "NIL" do you think it would take for St. John's to be a respectable team in women's basketball?
HuskyNan
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It’s not like St John’s - or any other school - just writes a check to a player. I get the feeling some think that’s the case. Schools have boosters with deep pockets that donate, introduce players to sponsors, and facilitate NIL deals for them. The Huskies have UConn dad & alum Mark D’Amelio leading the charge, St John’s has Mike Repole to contribute to a college’s collective.
Collectives:
Often founded by prominent alumni and influential supporters, school-specific collectives pool funds from a wide swath of donors to help create NIL opportunities for student-athletes through an array of activities.
Collectives, which are independent of a university, can serve a variety of purposes. Most often, they pool funds from boosters and businesses, help facilitate NIL deals for athletes and also create their own ways for athletes to monetize their brands. The term “collective,” which generally means a cooperative enterprise, has no particular legal significance.
What are NIL Collectives and how do they operate?
NIL collectives have quickly become a big story, with fans and alumni putting large amounts of money into them. But, what are they?
What is NIL in college sports? How do athlete deals work?
The NCAA now allows college athletes to profit off their name, image and likeness, otherwise known as NIL. Learn more about how it works now.
What is NIL? NCAA Name, Image, Likeness Rule Explained
Learn about the NCAA NIL rules and how student-athletes can profit from their name, image, and likeness through endorsements and promotions.
www.ncsasports.org
So, the problem isn’t St John’s University, it’s the schools boosters that need to help.
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The more things change the more they stay the same. The major difference now is that schools, and let's face it, they are the ones who hire and pay these people after vetting them, no longer have to pay under the table or with alumni providing them with high paying summer jobs that consist of showing up for a paycheck. It's just a different way of payment. The major difference is the ability to use the transfer portal but you can bet that eventually the schools will find some way to shut that down.
I am hopeful that after a few seasons of this, things will settle down. In the past, the very best players went to the very best schools right out of high school, and I think this will still be the case. Wooden never had a problem recruiting the sort of player he wanted, nor does Geno. They promise nothing, but deliver everything. Players either get that or they don't. Conversely, if you're a player that needs a year or two to develop, you'll get noticed wherever you are. I absolutely believe that had Morrow stayed at DePaul, she would still have gotten drafted exactly where she was.
As Bob Dylan said, "You don't find yourself, you make yourself." If you're a driven kid, and assuming you have the talent, you'll get discovered and find your way to the career you want. Jumping programs won't make that any easier, as very quickly coaches will realize that if the player isn't that invested in the concept of team, then they won't be that invested in the player's future, so no one ends up winning. You get coaches thinking of players as a plug-and-play tool, inserted into a role.."Listen kid, go get rebounds..I have scorers. What, you want to score to impress the scouts? Should have thought about that with your first or second teams."
Fans will lose interest in the programs and the kids, and the WNBA doesn't want disinterested fans. Clark and Bueckers are the phenomenon they are in part because they stuck with the team they started with and developed their own fan base. Too much jumping around and the viewership drops, so does the potential NIL cash, and the game settles back in to what it was 20 years ago.
As Bob Dylan said, "You don't find yourself, you make yourself." If you're a driven kid, and assuming you have the talent, you'll get discovered and find your way to the career you want. Jumping programs won't make that any easier, as very quickly coaches will realize that if the player isn't that invested in the concept of team, then they won't be that invested in the player's future, so no one ends up winning. You get coaches thinking of players as a plug-and-play tool, inserted into a role.."Listen kid, go get rebounds..I have scorers. What, you want to score to impress the scouts? Should have thought about that with your first or second teams."
Fans will lose interest in the programs and the kids, and the WNBA doesn't want disinterested fans. Clark and Bueckers are the phenomenon they are in part because they stuck with the team they started with and developed their own fan base. Too much jumping around and the viewership drops, so does the potential NIL cash, and the game settles back in to what it was 20 years ago.
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Future money is coming directly from the schools. Anything not coming directly from the schools must be approved by Deloitte as legitimate NIL (the kind the UConn women excel at).It’s not like St John’s - or any other school - just writes a check to a player. I get the feeling some think that’s the case. Schools have boosters with deep pockets that donate, introduce players to sponsors, and facilitate NIL deals for them. The Huskies have UConn dad & alum Mark D’Amelio leading the charge, St John’s has Mike Repole to contribute to a college’s collective.
Collectives:
Often founded by prominent alumni and influential supporters, school-specific collectives pool funds from a wide swath of donors to help create NIL opportunities for student-athletes through an array of activities.
Collectives, which are independent of a university, can serve a variety of purposes. Most often, they pool funds from boosters and businesses, help facilitate NIL deals for athletes and also create their own ways for athletes to monetize their brands. The term “collective,” which generally means a cooperative enterprise, has no particular legal significance.
What are NIL Collectives and how do they operate?
NIL collectives have quickly become a big story, with fans and alumni putting large amounts of money into them. But, what are they?www.on3.com
What is NIL in college sports? How do athlete deals work?
The NCAA now allows college athletes to profit off their name, image and likeness, otherwise known as NIL. Learn more about how it works now.www.espn.com
What is NIL? NCAA Name, Image, Likeness Rule Explained
Learn about the NCAA NIL rules and how student-athletes can profit from their name, image, and likeness through endorsements and promotions.
So, the problem isn’t St John’s University, it’s the schools boosters that need to help.
Or that is how it will work in theory. It would be naive to think that the old system of doling out dark money will not return.
HuskyFan1125
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First hand experience here!!
We don’t even see some schools at AAU games like we used to see. Now it might be 1-2 assistant coaches. Some are just shopping the portal each season and just using HS kids as place fillers. It’s definitely noticeable.
We don’t even see some schools at AAU games like we used to see. Now it might be 1-2 assistant coaches. Some are just shopping the portal each season and just using HS kids as place fillers. It’s definitely noticeable.
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In the current era of "rent a player", fan brand loyalty to the college is fast losing interest. Fans feel this too, when professional teams leave a town, it leaves most of its fan base. Big TV money is driving the bus.It will be interesting to see the fan response since they create the pool of money that funds the game and enterprise.
In general, it seems that we're talking about a shift from players who come in as freshman and who we get to know as people and athletes over a 4 year period. Now, it feels like it's going to a situation where each fall, we fans check in to see who is on the team this year under the 'best team we could buy' banner for year X, and we then decide how much we want to invest of ourselves in these new people and this new team.
Personally, I've liked getting to know our athletes and watching them develop - it builds my loyalty. I care more, and I'm watching, and I donate and pay more for seats and the TV experience.
I'm kinda thinking I'll care less and be less willing to pay under the new model
Bald Husky
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When Curt Flood challenged major league baseball decades ago, baseball was never the same because any player could go to any team that wanted them. Enter free agency. Now, college basketball, men and women, is going through the same transformation, and unfortunately it will never be the same. In the last 10 or so years, parity has reached the sport, with so many more teams getting good enough to challenge for a national championship. Now, it's changed again. In this year's men's tournament, all #1 seeds made it to the final four, and in the womens side, three #1 teams made it, with UConn, the only non-#1 team taking the prize after the tournament. The portal, college basketballs free agencey, has ruined the parity in the sport. Mid-major stars, great players in non-P4 conferences, are being recruited to the high level teams, the rich teams, the popular teams, the teams with the dynamic coaches, or other top ranked players. I understand that there are circumstances that some players need to change schools, bad culture, bad or abusive coach, or a reason that is just academic. Now, it's unbelievable that players on good teams, with a good future are leaving just for the hell of it, with no reason other than going to a team that can win a national championship, or even worse in my opinion, the money. I believe in NIL, but it all is out of control. The NCAA has to come up with something that will slow down all the movement, not get rid of it, but have some kind of rule that will just limit the number of schools that a player can play for. This is college for Gods sake, they are there for the education, so get it, unless of course the kid doesn't care about the education, just how they can make more money while in school but not realizing that their basketball skill will only go so far. I just think these kids have to be smarter, and look what's in their long-range future, not just the short range.