What if... Moriah Jefferson

[Phillyconn]

wins her 4th National Title, will she then catapult the Great Sue Bird has the best PG in Husky history.

Yes, imho.

 

[AndyCT]

I'm not sure this is an unreasonable assertion. Mo keeps building her game, keeps improving. Shooting 40% from 3, 87% from the stripe, tenacious D, can pass with both hands. Tremendous player.

Actually it's a completely stupid assertion - just because Moriah is on a team that wins four national championships doesn't mean in and of itself that itself that she is the best point guard in school history; by this criteria Moriah has already been on more National Championship teams than Sue, so I guess we should just anoint her right now as the greatest ever and move on...

Or by the same token, Maria “She’s short but she’s slow” Conlan was on three National Championship teams and was the starting point guard on two, so maybe she’s the current best ever?

Every year down here in WFAN territory there are countless discussions concerning whether a given quarterback is a hall-of-fame quarterback; one criteria that people always bring up whether that quarterback has won a Super Bowl. By that oft-cited criteria Joe Flacco of the Ravens would be a Hall of Famer and Dan Marino of the Dolphins and Jim Kelly of the Bills would not; yet (with all due respect to Joe) we all know which two were the (far) better quarterbacks. Peyton and Eli's dad, Archie Manning was one of the greatest quarterbacks in history yet because he played for the "Aints" in their worst years he never won a Super Bowl.

The point is not just whether a player was on a team that won National Championships but how integral she was to that team. When I was in the Navy a pilot was given a “Centurion” patch for making 100 carrier landings. They also gave a patch to the backseaters (“Goose” for you Topgun fans) for having the guts to ride through 100 carrier landings, but as one pilot said walking away from the ceremony, “he might just as well have been going to the drugstore for all he had to do with it”.

That said, Moriah has certainly been an integral part of two championship teams; freshman year she was a participant but not really a factor as that was still a Bria and CD2 team.

Our memory is short. We forget how good Syosset Sue was. Moriah has never had a “Bird at the Buzzer” moment, though in fairness she’s never had to have that moment. Sue did and when the call came, she answered. As had been mentioned Sue was the consensus player of the year, though in fairness to Moriah – in absolute fairness – playing with Breanna almost guarantees she can’t be the player of the year, though as last year’s Final Four games showed, on any given night(s) she might be the best player on the floor.

In the same way, we get all excited about Moriah’s on-ball defense but we forget that just a few years ago – a very few years ago – Doris Burke rightfully called Kelly Farris the best defensive player in the country and asserted that had she not played in the Griner era, she would have won that national award. For two years with one exception (Kayla McBride) Kelly Farris quietly shut down the other team’s best player – what the team did this year to Kelsey Mitchell, Kelly Farris did night in and night out to every team she faced. Yet now Kelly is a distant memory and Moriah is the greatest defender ever.

All this is not to say that Moriah may not be the best point guard ever – just that they assertion that she is that, simply because she was on a team that won (hopefully) four national Championships, is ludicrous. Opportunity, teammates, circumstances all conspire to make that happen and by itself is generally not a measure of any single player’s greatness. Breanna will likely win more National Championships than Diana or Maya, but Diana did it twice with a team that realistically had no business being in the Final Four. Is Breanna nonetheless the best player ever simply because she will have been on a team that won more championships?

Moriah is certainly in the discussion for best point guard ever – personally I don’t think she has surpassed Sue yet, but I can see and respect any well thought arguments. Likewise as amazed as I am at Breanna, when I watch games from Diana’s teams I can’t personally declare Breanna the best ever. Our memories fade with time – we forget how good – and sometimes how bad things were. Before we declare Moriah the best ever based on a team achievement, go back and look at some of Sue’s games – including the 2001 Big East Championship – the infamous “Bird at the Buzzer” game (on Husky Games!), and then maybe we can discuss Moriah versus Sue…

 

[Phillyconn]

Actually it's a completely stupid assertion - just because Moriah is on a team that wins four national championships doesn't mean in and of itself that itself that she is the best point guard in school history; by this criteria Moriah has already been on more National Championship teams than Sue, so I guess we should just anoint her right now as the greatest ever and move on...

Or by the same token, Maria “She’s short but she’s slow” Conlan was on three National Championship teams and was the starting point guard on two, so maybe she’s the current best ever?

Every year down here in WFAN territory there are countless discussions concerning whether a given quarterback is a hall-of-fame quarterback; one criteria that people always bring up whether that quarterback has won a Super Bowl. By that oft-cited criteria Joe Flacco of the Ravens would be a Hall of Famer and Dan Marino of the Dolphins and Jim Kelly of the Bills would not; yet (with all due respect to Joe) we all know which two were the (far) better quarterbacks. Peyton and Eli's dad, Archie Manning was one of the greatest quarterbacks in history yet because he played for the "Aints" in their worst years he never won a Super Bowl.

The point is not just whether a player was on a team that won National Championships but how integral she was to that team. When I was in the Navy a pilot was given a “Centurion” patch for making 100 carrier landings. They also gave a patch to the backseaters (“Goose” for you Topgun fans) for having the guts to ride through 100 carrier landings, but as one pilot said walking away from the ceremony, “he might just as well have been going to the drugstore for all he had to do with it”.

That said, Moriah has certainly been an integral part of two championship teams; freshman year she was a participant but not really a factor as that was still a Bria and CD2 team.

Our memory is short. We forget how good Syosset Sue was. Moriah has never had a “Bird at the Buzzer” moment, though in fairness she’s never had to have that moment. Sue did and when the call came, she answered. As had been mentioned Sue was the consensus player of the year, though in fairness to Moriah – in absolute fairness – playing with Breanna almost guarantees she can’t be the player of the year, though as last year’s Final Four games showed, on any given night(s) she might be the best player on the floor.

In the same way, we get all excited about Moriah’s on-ball defense but we forget that just a few years ago – a very few years ago – Doris Burke rightfully called Kelly Farris the best defensive player in the country and asserted that had she not played in the Griner era, she would have won that national award. For two years with one exception (Kayla McBride) Kelly Farris quietly shut down the other team’s best player – what the team did this year to Kelsey Mitchell, Kelly Farris did night in and night out to every team she faced. Yet now Kelly is a distant memory and Moriah is the greatest defender ever.

All this is not to say that Moriah may not be the best point guard ever – just that they assertion that she is that, simply because she was on a team that won (hopefully) four national Championships, is ludicrous. Opportunity, teammates, circumstances all conspire to make that happen and by itself is generally not a measure of any single player’s greatness. Breanna will likely win more National Championships than Diana or Maya, but Diana did it twice with a team that realistically had no business being in the Final Four. Is Breanna nonetheless the best player ever simply because she will have been on a team that won more championships?

Moriah is certainly in the discussion for best point guard ever – personally I don’t think she has surpassed Sue yet, but I can see and respect any well thought arguments. Likewise as amazed as I am at Breanna, when I watch games from Diana’s teams I can’t personally declare Breanna the best ever. Our memories fade with time – we forget how good – and sometimes how bad things were. Before we declare Moriah the best ever based on a team achievement, go back and look at some of Sue’s games – including the 2001 Big East Championship – the infamous “Bird at the Buzzer” game (on Husky Games!), and then maybe we can discuss Moriah versus Sue…

I am the biggest DT and Sue Bird fan. I watched them win championships. DT, has done more with less, than any other player in WCBB history. Sue was clutch, tremendous player, a true champion. With that being said, I think what makes BS the best ever at UCONN and MoJeff the best pg ever to play at UCONN, is the ability to affect the game on both ends of the court. MoJeff, is an absolute beast on the defensive side of the ball. She sets the tone on defense. Remember how she frustrated Skylar in the finals? Remember how she frustrated Lloyd in the finals? Stewart is now the last line of defense. Her shot blocking is off the charts these days. DT and Sue did not show the ability to change a game on defense the way BS and MoJeff can, period. DT remains my all time favorite player.

 

[EricLA]

How fortunate are we that we can even have this conversation? If you look at the players as all around, I think most will agree that the elite of the elite are/were Stewie, Dee and Maya.

But the 1a) of players is a much longer list- players who are just below those 3 all time greats... Bascom, Lobo, Wolters, Rizotti, Sales, Sveta, Bird, Cash, Jones, Charles, KML, Jefferson, and Tuck. If you look at pro careers past UCONN, certainly players like Charles and Bird jump ahead of everyone else, (probably Jones too and may be Sales/Sveta) but from a UCONN production standpoint, I'm sure there may even be a few others you could add...

 

[hoophuskee]

Pardon me, but I'm biased because Moriah is my favorite player. She became my favorite player during the Baylor game. That said, If Mo wins her 4th NC, and you feel she still would not eclipse Sue Bird as the greatest guard ever to play at UConn, then please explain what else she would have to do to eclipse her.....that is is it's possible for SB to be eclipsed.

If Mo, Stewie and Tuck win a 4th NC, UConn should put up a special banner or give them their own little section on a wall recognizing their accomplishment. An accomplishment that has never been done by any other person or group of people at UConn in school history.

I think MoJeff can be considered best pg ever - but you asked why maybe Bird? Note: I am not suggesting below is my opinion as stated before - I think MoJeff has a shot to be considered best ever. I mean if we lose and a guard torches UCONN and MoJeff couldn't stop her while playing a belwo average overall offensive game - will she be considered greater than Bird in that this team is considered so far ahead of everyone else? MoJeff arguable si palyign with the greatest player in UCONN History. Bird palyed with a Dt - but a soph DT. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Okay here are some of the reasons for Bird or NOT MoJeff- again though I am NOT saying who is greater just answering your question. I prefer to wait for season's end to declare.

1-- Statistics are hard to use overall therefore how valid can we use assists and assist is to turnovers when we compare both? MoJeff has had the luxury of playing with the greatest 3pt shooter in NCAA History and arguably the greatest player in UCONN History. Up until last year all that was required of her was to pass and play great defense. She didn't have to "create" until last year. So the assists vs turnovers comparison between the two is "iffy." Bird at a younger AGE was REQUIRED to be more aggressive which is why she shoots more - and yet doesn't have as efficient consistent scorers (like Stewie and KML). In addition, who really makes a more efficient pass in the post? We know Geno raves about Bird's post passing - but keep in mind in Bird's career - she didn't have the upperclassmen like Dolson to dump to and as good as "The Three Sisters" were, the efficiency of a combo of Dolson/KML/Stewie is easier to get an assist.

2-- In Bird's soph year was superior to MoJeff's, right? In Bird's soph year we can remember her great play vs Tenn, right? They couldn't stop her late even though "Boo" Randle was trying to be all over her. In bigger games Bird would take bigger shots early on. In 99-00 I think in semis vs Penn State - Bird was enormous in that game from what I recall. In contrast look at MoJeff's soph year. She was the 5th option. I don't remember many boneyarders at all being upset with Doris Burke's idiotic comments in finals vs ND when she took two shots Burke criticized her for taking them. That's because the expectation was that MoJeff didn't NEED to shoot (Bird did). Think about it- MoJeff was being left wide open in that game by a gimmick ND defense. And she was barely even shooting and being criticized when she did shoot and consensus was that she was justifiably criticized. In Sue Bird's soph year she was shooting 50% from 3 while averaging 4 3's a game. Would ND have been able to play that kind of defense if the soph Bird was on the court?

3-- Let's face from soph year onwards in particular last year- the UCONN conference of AAC was not as good as Bird's competition relatively speaking. Therefore the stats are harder to be as good.

4-- And while MoJeff is a superior defender imo -- Bird did NOT have the luxury of the consistency of the frontline defense that MoJeff has had. Dolson was DPOY her sr year? And Stokes imo the greatest defender in UCONN History along with Stewie imposing help defense. When we lost to Stanford last year, MoJeff did gamble and lose her man. This year a big concern by many was our perimeter defense -- though can't say it was MoJeff's fault but can't say she should be automatically blameless.

5-- Individually Bird was NPOY. MoJeff has little chance of that though because she is "competing" with Stewie. But it is the highest award for an individual in which she followed through in her sr year with a championship. If UCONN doesn't win this year- it is possible something went terribly wrong in the backcourt which is MoJeff's responsibility. Even now individually teams are okay with MoJeff shooting. Though MoJeff certainly makes them pay. She has proven that this year and last.

 

[cbraarj]

Bird was the floor general since her sophmore year and Moriah took over in her junior year because it was her and Hartley in her sophmore year.They are both great players in the eras they played.IMO though Bird was the leader of the best starting 5 in the history of wcbb with the 2002 team.She was also the leader of the most talented Huskie team ever the 2001 team.They lost Shea and Sveta before the tournament and if they didnt Notre Dame would still be looking for thier first NC!

 

[johnnyc]

How fortunate are we that we can even have this conversation?

Extremely fortunate. It won't be too long (maybe five years) before we will be able to get a starting lineup of all UConn out of the top 16 players all time.

Bird
Tarausi
Charles
Moore
Stewart

 

[hoophuskee]

I am the biggest DT and Sue Bird fan. I watched them win championships. DT, has done more with less, than any other player in WCBB history. Sue was clutch, tremendous player, a true champion. With that being said, I think what makes BS the best ever at UCONN and MoJeff the best pg ever to play at UCONN, is the ability to affect the game on both ends of the court. MoJeff, is an absolute beast on the defensive side of the ball. She sets the tone on defense. Remember how she frustrated Skylar in the finals? Remember how she frustrated Lloyd in the finals? Stewart is now the last line of defense. Her shot blocking is off the charts these days. DT and Sue did not show the ability to change a game on defense the way BS and MoJeff can, period. DT remains my all time favorite player.

I agree with the concept and secondly I'm willing to wait - this UCONN team needs to win number 4. While they can get beaten -- they are the best therefore they shouldn't especially in NCAA's. If BS and MJ are truly the best - and barring injuries- they should prove it and win while they are the clear best team. No excuses.

Secondly, I agree to a degree about their defense. With that said- Shaq was a mediocre defender in his career. Pippen was clearly more rounded. But are they even close? Give me Shaq for the majority of his career. Rodman got into the HOF -- and he was very, very little on offense. There are other players that missed out of being in HOF which I'm sure had more balance/well-rounded game.

 

[Phillyconn]

I agree with the concept and secondly I'm willing to wait - this UCONN team needs to win number 4. While they can get beaten -- they are the best therefore they shouldn't especially in NCAA's. If BS and MJ are truly the best - and barring injuries- they should prove it and win while they are the clear best team. No excuses.

Secondly, I agree to a degree about their defense. With that said- Shaq was a mediocre defender in his career. Pippen was clearly more rounded. But are they even close? Give me Shaq for the majority of his career. Rodman got into the HOF -- and he was very, very little on offense. There are other players that missed out of being in HOF which I'm sure had more balance/well-rounded game.

Shaq, was a deterrent in the middle on defense, but he was an absolute beast in the middle on offense. He controlled the paint, almost scored at will. So, I would take him over Pippen. However, without Pippen, MJ wouldn't have all of those titles. Rodman, didn't have any type of offensive game, which allowed him to excel on rebounding and defense. MoJeff, on the other hand is a very capable scorer. She can score behind the arc, pull-up jumper and get to the rim at will. She could easily score 20pts a game if needed. Her defense is all time great. MoJeff, is the best all around pg in UCONN history, right now, based on her abilities and her success.

 

[UcMiami]

That said, Moriah has certainly been an integral part of two championship teams; freshman year she was a participant but not really a factor as that was still a Bria and CD2 team.

Andy - like your post, but wanted to comment on the above statement. That was exactly the way I remembered Moriah's contributions in her freshman year and then just this past week we got a chance to watch the elite eight game from that year, and I was completely surprised at how well Moriah was playing. I just went back and checked the box scores from the NCAA tournament for that year and the statistics surprised me: First, our starting backcourt in the NCAAs was Faris and Doty with both Bria and Moriah on the bench except for the first game that Stewart sat out when Bria started and fares moved to the 4. And in the first four games the primary minutes went to Bria and Moriah put up the most points. Her performances in both of the regional final games was quite critical to Uconn's winning. She scored 20 point on 67% shooting and had six steals in those two games average 26 minutes a game. While Doty started all 6 games she was really a non-factor except in the way it altered the dynamic of the team. She played a total of 78 minutes in the NCAAs and scored 8 points (zero in the FF.) Moriah played 119 minutes and scored 41 with 11 steals and 12 assist/8 TOs. It was definitely still Bria's team and she contributed 64 points in 172 minutes, but Moriah was not a passenger on the team and was I think critical in turning the tide in what had been a very tight KY game with steals (4) and 5-7 shooting. She was certainly less of a factor in the FF, but she was still getting 12.5 minutes per game - something that does not happen for 'passengers' on a Uconn team in the FF

 

[huskyd]

As Hillary Clinton said, "What difference does it make?" We Husky fans should thank the basketball gods that Sue and Mo came along. Each has warmed the long winters with her transcendent skill, fabulous smile, and impeccable character. Bless you and thank you both.

 

[CL82]

Could Joe Louis have whupped Rocky Marciano?

Apparently not.



Full disclaimer. Louis was well past his prime when he fought Marciano. Rocky actually cried and apologized to Louis after the fight.

 

[VA Huskie]

Both great PGs. I'll take MoJeff's defense and Sue for the critical shot.

 

[hoophuskee]

Shaq, was a deterrent in the middle on defense, but he was an absolute beast in the middle on offense. He controlled the paint, almost scored at will. So, I would take him over Pippen. However, without Pippen, MJ wouldn't have all of those titles. Rodman, didn't have any type of offensive game, which allowed him to excel on rebounding and defense. MoJeff, on the other hand is a very capable scorer. She can score behind the arc, pull-up jumper and get to the rim at will. She could easily score 20pts a game if needed. Her defense is all time great. MoJeff, is the best all around pg in UCONN history, right now, based on her abilities and her success.

I didn't think Bird was that bad at all defensively. I thought she was pretty good. No way MoJeff could have averaged over 20ppg on title-contending program before her last December game vs ND. They were leaving her wide open before that time. Bird could always score. Shaq's defense vs pick-and-roll was putrid. He was always lazy. But yes my point is just because you have more versatile game doesn't make you better.

 

[hoophuskee]

Andy - like your post, but wanted to comment on the above statement. That was exactly the way I remembered Moriah's contributions in her freshman year and then just this past week we got a chance to watch the elite eight game from that year, and I was completely surprised at how well Moriah was playing. I just went back and checked the box scores from the NCAA tournament for that year and the statistics surprised me: First, our starting backcourt in the NCAAs was Faris and Doty with both Bria and Moriah on the bench except for the first game that Stewart sat out when Bria started and fares moved to the 4. And in the first four games the primary minutes went to Bria and Moriah put up the most points. Her performances in both of the regional final games was quite critical to Uconn's winning. She scored 20 point on 67% shooting and had six steals in those two games average 26 minutes a game. While Doty started all 6 games she was really a non-factor except in the way it altered the dynamic of the team. She played a total of 78 minutes in the NCAAs and scored 8 points (zero in the FF.) Moriah played 119 minutes and scored 41 with 11 steals and 12 assist/8 TOs. It was definitely still Bria's team and she contributed 64 points in 172 minutes, but Moriah was not a passenger on the team and was I think critical in turning the tide in what had been a very tight KY game with steals (4) and 5-7 shooting. She was certainly less of a factor in the FF, but she was still getting 12.5 minutes per game - something that does not happen for 'passengers' on a Uconn team in the FF

I have to disagree. You can spike a few games here or there but imo she was a passenger. And 12.5 minutes is passenger-like when we are comparing all-time greatness. In her frosh year averaging 4.7 ppg with 1.77 assists and 1.26 to's while; averaging 1.64 rebounds - for a season and as we compare great vs great - that is passenger-like. Passengers can help as she did. But was a passenger.

 

[hoophuskee]

Pardon me, but I'm biased because Moriah is my favorite player. She became my favorite player during the Baylor game. That said, If Mo wins her 4th NC, and you feel she still would not eclipse Sue Bird as the greatest guard ever to play at UConn, then please explain what else she would have to do to eclipse her.....that is is it's possible for SB to be eclipsed.

If Mo, Stewie and Tuck win a 4th NC, UConn should put up a special banner or give them their own little section on a wall recognizing their accomplishment. An accomplishment that has never been done by any other person or group of people at UConn in school history.

Something needs to be done for Tuck if she doesn't get 1st team a/a. She can score from anywhere -- OVERALL VERY EFFICIENTLY . Defend nearly from anywhere. Two times now we've beaten arguably the 2nd best team in the nation and our biggest rival in ND-- and the word's coming out of Muffett's mouth have been "Morgan Tuck."

 

[UcMiami]

I think MoJeff can be considered best pg ever - but you asked why maybe Bird? Note: I am not suggesting below is my opinion as stated before - I think MoJeff has a shot to be considered best ever. I mean if we lose and a guard torches UCONN and MoJeff couldn't stop her while playing a belwo average overall offensive game - will she be considered greater than Bird in that this team is considered so far ahead of everyone else? MoJeff arguable si palyign with the greatest player in UCONN History. Bird palyed with a Dt - but a soph DT. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Okay here are some of the reasons for Bird or NOT MoJeff- again though I am NOT saying who is greater just answering your question. I prefer to wait for season's end to declare.

1-- Statistics are hard to use overall therefore how valid can we use assists and assist is to turnovers when we compare both? MoJeff has had the luxury of playing with the greatest 3pt shooter in NCAA History and arguably the greatest player in UCONN History. Up until last year all that was required of her was to pass and play great defense. She didn't have to "create" until last year. So the assists vs turnovers comparison between the two is "iffy." Bird at a younger AGE was REQUIRED to be more aggressive which is why she shoots more - and yet doesn't have as efficient consistent scorers (like Stewie and KML). In addition, who really makes a more efficient pass in the post? We know Geno raves about Bird's post passing - but keep in mind in Bird's career - she didn't have the upperclassmen like Dolson to dump to and as good as "The Three Sisters" were, the efficiency of a combo of Dolson/KML/Stewie is easier to get an assist.

2-- In Bird's soph year was superior to MoJeff's, right? In Bird's soph year we can remember her great play vs Tenn, right? They couldn't stop her late even though "Boo" Randle was trying to be all over her. In bigger games Bird would take bigger shots early on. In 99-00 I think in semis vs Penn State - Bird was enormous in that game from what I recall. In contrast look at MoJeff's soph year. She was the 5th option. I don't remember many boneyarders at all being upset with Doris Burke's idiotic comments in finals vs ND when she took two shots Burke criticized her for taking them. That's because the expectation was that MoJeff didn't NEED to shoot (Bird did). Think about it- MoJeff was being left wide open in that game by a gimmick ND defense. And she was barely even shooting and being criticized when she did shoot and consensus was that she was justifiably criticized. In Sue Bird's soph year she was shooting 50% from 3 while averaging 4 3's a game. Would ND have been able to play that kind of defense if the soph Bird was on the court?

3-- Let's face from soph year onwards in particular last year- the UCONN conference of AAC was not as good as Bird's competition relatively speaking. Therefore the stats are harder to be as good.

4-- And while MoJeff is a superior defender imo -- Bird did NOT have the luxury of the consistency of the frontline defense that MoJeff has had. Dolson was DPOY her sr year? And Stokes imo the greatest defender in UCONN History along with Stewie imposing help defense. When we lost to Stanford last year, MoJeff did gamble and lose her man. This year a big concern by many was our perimeter defense -- though can't say it was MoJeff's fault but can't say she should be automatically blameless.

5-- Individually Bird was NPOY. MoJeff has little chance of that though because she is "competing" with Stewie. But it is the highest award for an individual in which she followed through in her sr year with a championship. If UCONN doesn't win this year- it is possible something went terribly wrong in the backcourt which is MoJeff's responsibility. Even now individually teams are okay with MoJeff shooting. Though MoJeff certainly makes them pay. She has proven that this year and last.

OK - I'll bite. And agree stats are only so good especially with PGs. And I am just adding a counter to some of your points not really disagreeing. (And I do love this)
1. The list of players Bird played some or all of her career with are all over the best percentage shooters in Uconn history - starting with her classmates - Williams #1 .703, Cash #9 .551 and Jones came in at .505, then the others she played some years with - #5 J. Moore, #6 Shea, #7 Kelly Schumacher, #12 Hansmeyer. Other notables: Sveta at .500 and DT at .469. Moriah - for top performers at Uconn: Dolson at #4 .588 and left off the list but does barely qualify Stokes .599 (she should be listed at #4 moving the other ranks down), Her classmates aren't bad with Morgan at .545 and Stewart at .514 (and rising), other notables KML at .486, Hartley at .453, Nurse at .486 (and falling), Faris at .455 - I think overall Sue probably had the better percentage shooters to pass to. Sue's 3 teams shot .539, .499, and .520, Moriah's last two shot .503 and .540 and they are currently at .524 (her freshman year .496) so pretty close, but interestingly Sue was fortunate she wasn't passing to herself as she shot below the team average while Moriah is unfortunate not to be passing to herself as she is shooting well above the team average.

2. On three point shooters - I grant you KML at #2 for Mo, but Sue had #5 Sveta, # 9 DT and #14 Shea to pass out to. (Stewart might just sneak onto that list this year if she can keep her current percentage through the year. Their teams shot: Sue - .463, .385, .405; Moriah - .366, .406, and currently .365 (freshman year .378) but I am too lazy to back out Sue's and Moriah's numbers and they both shot significantly better than their team average. And really for a PG you are better passing to a two point shooter than a three point shooter in general as the percentages tend to be significantly better.

3. Agree that Moriah has had the better shot blockers behind her, but Sue's back line was't bad with Schumacher ranked #8, Asjha #10, Swin #13, J. Moore #14, and Sauer #16 ( DT is # 11 by the way) and I am not sure how much the back line defense has to do with steals. Sue's teams rank #2, #5, and #9 on the all time list while Moriah's rank #14 and #10 (and her freshman year ranks number #6.) Most of Moriah's steals seem to come from her quick hands and speed rather than gambling in passing lanes. I think Moriah is a superior defender because of speed and quickness, and not so much her help defense or gambling, and when she plays denial defense is when the real frustrations of her player show up, and that has nothing to do with help defenders.

4. I think Sue was a better big moment player but you can match a TN with a SC game. Sue scored 10.9 ppg as a sophomore v. Moriah's 10.0 but took 0.7 more shots to accomplish it while dishing 0.6 fewer assists and committing 0.5 more turnovers. Sue had a 2.0 A/TO, Moriah came in at 3.0

5. Before January Moriah in the last two plus years has shot threes at about .300 - after January 1st she has shot at above .600. Her overall shooting percentages have been more steady at around .575. We'll see what she does this year - she has already raise her 3 percentage by about 70 points. I agree about the conference strength though 2000-02 the BE was yet to become the consistently strong league it became in the middle and late 2000s. I think the overall strength of the OOC has been stronger in Moriah's years than it was in Sue's years.

 

[UcMiami]

I have to disagree. You can spike a few games here or there but imo she was a passenger. And 12.5 minutes is passenger-like when we are comparing all-time greatness. In her frosh year averaging 4.7 ppg with 1.77 assists and 1.26 to's while; averaging 1.64 rebounds - for a season and as we compare great vs great - that is passenger-like. Passengers can help as she did. But was a passenger.

I would agree about her 'freshman year' as a whole. But I don't think you can discount NCAA tournament contributions from regionals so easily or say 'spiking a few games' - 26 minutes per game in the fourth and third most important games of the season is nothing to simply dismiss - they were both 'competitive' for a time and Moriah contributed significantly. In the KY game she was probably the most influential player in the back court.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Something needs to be done for Tuck if she doesn't get 1st team a/a. She can score from anywhere -- OVERALL VERY EFFICIENTLY . Defend nearly from anywhere. Two times now we've beaten arguably the 2nd best team in the nation and our biggest rival in ND-- and the word's coming out of Muffett's mouth have been "Morgan Tuck."

I think $100k+ in free education is good enough, no?

 

[malevocalist#]

wins her 4th National Title, will she then catapult the Great Sue Bird has the best PG in Husky history.

Thought she already did given she has 3 and Sue 2. And if she gets #4....Only a nut would disagree.

 

[Baroloboy]

Both great PGs. I'll take MoJeff's defense and Sue for the critical shot.

That really is the heart of the matter. When you are comparing what everyone would agree are the two best Uconn pg's ever from different eras the stats don't really tell the story. NC game, Uconn down by 1, final 15 seconds, Uconn ball, who do you want at pg? NC game, Uconn up by 1, final 15 seconds,opponent's ball, who do you want at pg?

 

[Phillyconn]

I didn't think Bird was that bad at all defensively. I thought she was pretty good. No way MoJeff could have averaged over 20ppg on title-contending program before her last December game vs ND. They were leaving her wide open before that time. Bird could always score. Shaq's defense vs pick-and-roll was putrid. He was always lazy. But yes my point is just because you have more versatile game doesn't make you better.

Good point. My point is that when you're excellent on both sides of the ball, like MoJeff, when you're a game changer on BOTH sides of the ball, like MoJeff, it makes you the best pg ever to play at UCONN. Sue and Mo have similar impacts on the offensive side of the ball. But on the defensive side of the ball, MoJeff is head and shoulders above Sue.

 

[j66kicker]

Sue won 3 Leibermans, NPOY (Wade & Naismith, while playing with Taurasi), and was the overall #1 WNBA draft pick for a reason. Moriah is phenomenal, but I think our memories fade...

 

[Phillyconn]

Sue won 3 Leibermans, NPOY (Wade & Naismith, while playing with Taurasi), and was the overall #1 WNBA draft pick for a reason. Moriah is phenomenal, but I think our memories fade...

Not mine. I remember them all, Rebecca, Kara, Nykeesha, Svet and Shea. I think Shea was underrated and maybe under appreciated. I was always amazed at how good of a finisher she was in the paint. I loved Nykeesha, what determination. Rebecca and Kara, would have been great in any era. Svet was big time.

 

[Wally East]

Rings don't matter in comparing individual players. There are too many other factors involved, most especially teammates.