Westbrook waiver denied

[Alydar]

Plebe, normally a fan of your hot takes, but this one is pretty cold. I'll speak from a relevant experience. When one completes the Standard Form 86 to seek a security clearance, one must furnish quite a lot of information, and provide a number of corroborating third-parties who can confirm certain key facts about your background. The applicant and all of those individuals are interviewed, and in some circumstances re-interviewed. Sure, I'm an N of 1. But I can tell you with great certainty that every address I've lived at post-college was a required part of that form, but which classes I took in college, and what grades I got on them, wasn't.

So If Shep knows that they don't ask questions about "Why Notre Dame," they don't ask for contacts at Notre Dame to interview about her situation, and in her appeal she did not need to provide new information justifying her choice of Notre Dame specifically, then I think she can speak with more authority than any of us can about why the transfer-in school is not relevant to the process. Unless and until you have evidence to the contrary, fact-free assertions don't make her claim implausible.

Just because something isn't on an application or mentioned in the regulations doesn't mean it isn't considered "sub rosa". These decisions are not black and white and in that gray area all sorts of things not in the rules can influence decisions. They just aren't mentioned because a lot of them are petty and personal and the rest are political.

 

[Justavisitor]

avis, both of them transfer

I agree with you and wonder if the denial was in any small part influenced by the NCAA not wanting to label the LV program as a toxic environment. Image is everything to the NCAA. (That and $$$)

You can trust that the $$ in Women's basketball is not enough to worry about a label. Also, how can you label any program as any thing when the entire staff has been replaced and in year 1?

However, what I have been seeing is that the NCAA must be in some type of mood as the waiver denials have been in abundance and many more than just Evina have been denied.

Perhaps, the NCAA doesn't like the new trend and they are trying to stymie that trend by making players aware that they may transfer, but the likelihood of a waiver is never in the bag.

 

[UConnCat]

You can trust that the $$ in Women's basketball is not enough to worry about a label. Also, how can you label any program as any thing when the entire staff has been replaced and in year 1?

However, what I have been seeing is that the NCAA must be in some type of mood as the waiver denials have been in abundance and many more than just Evina have been denied.

Perhaps, the NCAA doesn't like the new trend and they are trying to stymie that trend by making players aware that they may transfer, but the likelihood of a waiver is never in the bag.

Not true on the men’s side. 85% of waivers approved as of last week, probably down a little now.

 

[Alydar]

So yes, it is about money - preventing high-$$$$ sports from creating pernicious incentives for coaches, athletes, and boosters. But I already said that.

And honestly, UConn of all places should like the NCAA process. Get rid of it, and private schools and state schools with richer budgets than UConn can just start buying off your players. That may not succeed during the Geno era, but Geno won't be coaching forever, and someday you may find yourself on the other side of some of these transfer decisions.

I agree with your comments about privacy but disagree about the above. Are you suggesting that the student-athlete must be denied in order to keep schools honest? Are wealthy schools like Stanford ready to hand athletes piles of cash as soon as the transfer rules are relaxed? That's a rather cynical POV. And I wouldn't dismiss public universities so quickly. Do you think that all those Alabama football players wouldn't find packages from Tide boosters? Those bribes are not in budgets nor would they come from the taxpayers.

I liked professional sports better before free agency but last time I looked they were thriving without making the players indentured servants.

 

[Alydar]

You can trust that the $$ in Women's basketball is not enough to worry about a label. Also, how can you label any program as any thing when the entire staff has been replaced and in year 1?

The $$$ is on the mens side and the transfer rules apply equally. And the Vol staff may have been replaced but we are talking about the Summitt legacy. No one at the NCAA wants the final chapter to read "after she resigned her hand-picked successor's program was found to be "toxic". And Westbrook's transfer came under the former staff.

 

[oldude]

The $$$ is on the mens side and the transfer rules apply equally. And the Vol staff may have been replaced but we are talking about the Summitt legacy. No one at the NCAA wants the final chapter to read "after she resigned her hand-picked successor's program was found to be "toxic". And Westbrook's transfer came under the former staff.

Add in the fact that Phil Fulmer and HW were long time friends. He kept her around when many LV fans were clamoring for a change, and while he ultimately let her go, I doubt that he wants any additional scrutiny about HW’s tenure as a HC, nor his part in extending it.

 

[Plebe]

One of the most inane aspects of the whole waiver process, now being highlighted in the Westbrook case, is how much power is given to the player's former institution in determining approval or denial.

Apparently the determining factor in many cases is whether the former institution has the grace to explicitly support immediate eligibility, or the pettiness to oppose or no-stance it.

 

[Alydar]

I do. I've read the document outlining the process quite closely, and linked to it repeatedly. Here it is, again.

My point is: the application isn't about the transfer-in school. And if anything, it would cut against a program like Notre Dame, because one factor they consider is "Whether there is a competitive or recruiting advantage gained through the waiver process." The whole point of this process is to guard against schools opportunistically recruiting away top athletes at other schools.

It seems you never worked in a public/non-profit regulatory organization. The written document is not all that is considered. It's just that the "other considerations" are always undocumented.
And are you suggesting that student-athletes freedom is being restricted because of corrupt coaches & AD's? So now, instead of "luring" players away from schools they do their bribing while those students are still in high school, when the NCAA has no jurisdiction. If you want to deter dishonest programs, try tossing them out of the NCAA structure. That may change how AD's monitor their programs. The way it is now coaches and AD's just move on, and for the most part without sitting for even a day.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

There are alot of angry people on the BY, I would just like to remind them that is was public pressure via social media that caused Kansas State and the NCAA to reverse itself and make Leticia Romero immediate available for FSU. If I understand correctly we have until Tuesday to be heard.

The situations were fairly different, however...

Leticia Romero sought to transfer after coach Deb Patterson was fired. Kansas State denied her request amid concerns that members of the previous staff were trying to persuade her to follow them to another school.

At the time, Kansas State's policy stated: "...except for the most compelling of circumstances, which place an undue burden on the student athlete, it is the policy of the department of intercollegiate athletics not to grant a release for the purposes of a transfer."

The balance of power was much different in the case of Romero. The school initially was denying her the ability to transfer anywhere altogether before being publicly pressured into permitting it. Eventually, Romero was allowed to transfer to any school outside the Big 12. She picked Florida State.

As an aside, Romero was finally given permission to transfer from Kansas State at the end of May 2014. She was given immediate eligibility, but not until December 24, 2014.

That being said, never underestimate the power of public pressure.

It's still inconsistent though. Shepard and Romeo from Nebraska were granted immediate eligibility, but Chandler Smith wasn't. They all played for the same coaching staff during the same time frame. How does that make sense?

Let me parse your statements to understand and research:
Romero transferred immediately when the Yori situation occurred. No endorsement was needed.

As noted above, Romero was at Kansas State, not Nebraska.

 

[uconnfan68]

Not ignoring it, but noting that one reason folks here are saying she should get a waiver doesn't really seem to meet the specified criteria. Without know more about why she played with an injury (which, to be honest, I didn't notice based on her on court performance last season), it's also hard to know if that claim would meet the criteria either. There's a lot of speculation around here and almost no real facts. For example, CD also had surgery this off-season to deal with a nagging injury. Is that the result of Geno ignoring it and forcing her to play? Why do we think the circumstances are different? Just because we like Geno and hate the Vols?

Yeah, pretty much. UConn board and all.

 

[nwhoopfan]

As noted above, Romero was at Kansas State, not Nebraska.

Wrong. Natalie Romeo. She was at Nebraska and then Washington.

 

[Justavisitor]

Add in the fact that Phil Fulmer and HW were long time friends. He kept her around when many LV fans were clamoring for a change, and while he ultimately let her go, I doubt that he wants any additional scrutiny about HW’s tenure as a HC, nor his part in extending it.

This is not why he kept her around. He kept her around because she signed the #1 recruiting class and then followed that up with the #3 recruiting class. He also made it known that he would do all he could to protect the house that Pat built. Going into last season, friend or not, it was pretty much known that HW would seal her own fate. Those that said it had something to do with friendship were reaching without knowledge.

 

[Justavisitor]

Not true on the men’s side. 85% of waivers approved as of last week, probably down a little now.

The $$$ is on the mens side and the transfer rules apply equally. And the Vol staff may have been replaced but we are talking about the Summitt legacy. No one at the NCAA wants the final chapter to read "after she resigned her hand-picked successor's program was found to be "toxic". And Westbrook's transfer came under the former staff.

It already reads her hand picked successor was found to be incapable, inept, and several other words. Adding toxic doesn't matter, because she's gone. It's on to the next chapter. Also, that whole hand picked thing isn't exactly the truth. Thank goodness the Hart is gone and his damage has been undone...logo back and new coach

 

[futuretitles]

 

[Plebe]

Not ignoring it, but noting that one reason folks here are saying she should get a waiver doesn't really seem to meet the specified criteria. Without know more about why she played with an injury (which, to be honest, I didn't notice based on her on court performance last season), it's also hard to know if that claim would meet the criteria either. There's a lot of speculation around here and almost no real facts. For example, CD also had surgery this off-season to deal with a nagging injury. Is that the result of Geno ignoring it and forcing her to play? Why do we think the circumstances are different? Just because we like Geno and hate the Vols?

Not because we hate the Vols, though I'm sure a healthy dose of that is alive and well.

And not because we "like" Geno, but because we have learned we can trust him at his word. We know by his track record that he is not one to cynically fabricate grounds for a transfer waiver or trump up claims of less than full cooperation from another school. Does any of us have the evidence that Geno is privy to as the basis for these claims? I certainly don't. But his own track record shows he can be trusted on this type of issue.

What kind of trust has the athletic department of the University of Tennessee earned? Do we even need to review all the disgraceful chapters they have authored?

 

[Plebe]

View attachment 47746

The illustrious Sue Favor, ladies and gentleman.

A partisan hack masquerading as an "objective" journalist. She is a joke and a fraud.

 

[UConnCat]

View attachment 47746

Always good to hear from Lady Vol fan Sue Favor. She never fails to show her immaturity. Seriously, what adult so-called journalist would tweet that?

Oh, and oldude is right. No good reason for you to post this other than to antagonize. No one here cares what she thinks for reasons that are obvious to anyone with good sense.

 

[oldude]

View attachment 47746

I know you’re trying to be informative by posting this nonsense, but this doesn’t really belong here on the BY. I would respectfully suggest that you allow this hate speech to be relegated to VolNation where it belongs.

 

[soxfan23]

All I know is that if Westbrook's waiver appeal ends up being denied, Tennessee better lace em tight when they play UConn because Auriemma is going to want to drop 100 on them!

 

[oldude]

This is not why he kept her around. He kept her around because she signed the #1 recruiting class and then followed that up with the #3 recruiting class. He also made it known that he would do all he could to protect the house that Pat built. Going into last season, friend or not, it was pretty much known that HW would seal her own fate. Those that said it had something to do with friendship were reaching without knowledge.

Recruiting was never HW’s problem. The fact that she did so little with so much was her downfall, and it was obvious to just about every LV supporter that HW was demolishing the “house that Pat built” brick by brick. I was giving Fulmer credit for sticking with HW out of friendship. If that wasn’t the case, then I would have to question Fulmer’s overall capability as the TN AD.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

My favorite part of Favor's "argument" is that because Westbrook celebrated her transfer with a photo of her and her family happily attired in UConn apparel her old school shouldn't support her waiver request.

 

[Plebe]

My favorite part of Favor's "argument" is that because Westbrook celebrated her transfer with a photo of her and her family happily attired in UConn apparel her old school shouldn't support her waiver request.

And her choice of the word "glorify" -- so couched in the terms of a mortal enemy. "How dare she! The blasphemy!" One can hear the chorus of indignant gasps from all across the Land of Putrid Orange!

The fact that she gets to attend games wearing journalist's credentials is an affront to both the profession and the sport.

 

[CocoHusky]

Wrong. Natalie Romeo. She was at Nebraska and then Washington.

Right. Because we were speaking of Leticia Romero not Natalie. Kansas State to FSU.

 

[biobioprof]

Ok, but of the four players you're talking about, only one got a waiver.

Chloe Jackson graduated from A&M and so as a grad transfer, these rules wouldn't apply to her. Same with Minyon Moore, who graduated from USC in three years while playing top bball!

For Alisha Gray and Kaela Davis, both of them transferred from institutions (UNC and Georgia Tech) that would shortly after part ways with their coaches for reasons that probably should have made them eligible for waivers. I have no doubt the coaching issues were part of what motivated their transfers. But both had to sit out a season before playing for the Gamecocks, so the system didn't unfairly benefit either of them, and both probably had stronger arguments than Westbrook does.

So the only one left is Shepard, whom we've discussed at length previously.

So I am failing to see how any of those four cases show the system didn't work. I welcome some facts to the contrary.

minor point that may have been made already:

Jackson grad transfer was from LSU, not A&M. Our grad transfer melodrama was about Anriel Howard and Danni Williams.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Right. Because we were speaking of Leticia Romero not Natalie. Kansas State to FSU.

You quoted me. I was referring to 3 players who transferred from Nebraska. Context.

 

[CocoHusky]

You quoted me. I was referring to 3 players who transferred from Nebraska. Context.

No. You quoted @CamrnCrz1974, He was quoting me, I was referring to Leticia Romero:

I would just like to remind them that is was public pressure via social media that caused Kansas State and the NCAA to reverse itself and make Leticia Romero immediate available for FSU. If I understand correctly we have until Tuesday to be heard.

 

[nwhoopfan]

No. You quoted @CamrnCrz1974, He was quoting me, I was referring to Leticia Romero:

Weird. I wasn't even participating in this thread. Looks like CamrnCrz1974 pulled a couple quotes from DefenseBB and I from the thread about Destiny Littleton's denied waiver request at South Carolina. I have no idea why. My original post was always referring to Natalie Romeo, the fact that Shepard, Smith and Nebraska are all mentioned seem like good clues. The waters got muddied, not by me.

 

[Steelerone]

HOT DAMN!! Surprise, surprise, surprise U Tenn didn't provide accurate information on Westbook.
I'm one who praised U Tenn and Jolly for being decent human beings. All those that said I was an idiot--I now accept your assessment. The information we read, as minimal as it may have been indicated she was living in a hostile atmosphere with UT, players, Fans, who knows maybe coaches and Sports Dept. If that isn't an EEO complaint and reason for transfer without delay---what did ND give on Shepherd??? --

And yet a coach can submit his resignation in the morning and be interviewed that afternoon (while probably already knowing where he is going next.)

 

[bballnut90]

Haven't read through all of this...but basically we'll find out by Wednesday if the appeal is approved or not?

 

[BroadwayVa]

Add in the fact that Phil Fulmer and HW were long time friends. He kept her around when many LV fans were clamoring for a change, and while he ultimately let her go, I doubt that he wants any additional scrutiny about HW’s tenure as a HC, nor his part in extending it.

Now I'm not thrilled by all this Waiver bs and Geno and the UConn aD are making inquires (as reported) with U Tenn. I really like the Tenn people around Knoxville I visit there often. Proudly display my Uconn wear and never a negative comment. Yet this denial of Waiver, if TRULY because UTenn won't give a favorable waiver release I condemn them (again reported words of Geno and the AD).
As Geno stated loudly: There is no excuse to withhold the waiver nor for U Tenn to be not in favor of it. They profess (per the same article) to want the best for Evina. Holding up the waiver isn't in her best interest. This to me appear pure punitive. This is truly about Evina. While she would be an added asset to this team and 9 is a terrible number Uconn has sufficient personnel to make a decent run at the FF or possibly the NC. Without her it will be an excellent year with her we could all feel good about hosting the U Tenn Womens BB Team. Can they imagine the hostile country they'll play in without Evina on the team?