Welp, ACC stays together with a new agreement (LINK) | Page 18 | The Boneyard

Welp, ACC stays together with a new agreement (LINK)

WrenchFan69 said:
It's time for the ACC to add UConn. They need to do something for their 9 game football schedule and I don't believe there's a better or more serious option.

We beat their football champ straight up. Beat BC. Should have beaten Syracuse. Have more wins over ACC opponents in the last two years than Florida State. Then we made a great hire and continued to invest in the sport. All without real media revenue. Plus basketball, baseball, and soccer success. And the geographic footprint works.

ESPN allegedly already agreed to pay pro rata to add us to their portion of the B12 deal and they should be drooling at the opportunity to get our men's and women's basketball teams back on their networks full time.
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Bingo! ESPN controls everything. They have been antiUConn from the start of CR. They have not changed their tune, and Ct politicians put no pressure on them.
 
buddy said:
Bingo! ESPN controls everything. They have been antiUConn from the start of CR. They have not changed their tune, and Ct politicians put no pressure on them.
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If you believe the various articles that came out in the 2011 expansion, UConn was the preferred partner of ESPN with Syracuse. When BC didn't want UConn they asked ESPN if there was anyone else that could generate the same payout. Pitt generated the same payout and UConn was pushed aside (Pitt then helped to vote down the Big East's TV deal with ESPN that was in discussion at the same time).
 
ScottVib said:
If you believe the various articles that came out in the 2011 expansion, UConn was the preferred partner of ESPN with Syracuse. When BC didn't want UConn they asked ESPN if there was anyone else that could generate the same payout. Pitt generated the same payout and UConn was pushed aside (Pitt then helped to vote down the Big East's TV deal with ESPN that was in discussion at the same time).
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Pitt also headed the lawsuit against the ACC that Blumenthal was involved with. Oddly, the story goes that the ACC has a vendetta against UConn for the lawsuit. But they let Pitt in?
 
ScottVib said:
If you believe the various articles that came out in the 2011 expansion, UConn was the preferred partner of ESPN with Syracuse. When BC didn't want UConn they asked ESPN if there was anyone else that could generate the same payout. Pitt generated the same payout and UConn was pushed aside (Pitt then helped to vote down the Big East's TV deal with ESPN that was in discussion at the same time).
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ESPN could have insisted that they take UConn. They did not. ESPN is not a friend.
 
buddy said:
ESPN could have insisted that they take UConn. They did not. ESPN is not a friend.
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They're not supposed to be a friend, they're a business. If the dollars make sense they'd support pushing Louisiana-Monroe to the SEC, but they're not going to act contrary to its financial interest. In 2011 they felt that if the ACC expanded to build inventory made sense in a TV negotiation where the ACC was seeking to increase its own revenues. Syracuse was their first option (thinking it delivered the NY market); ESPN suggested UConn as a partner, the ACC asked if there were alternatives and ESPN responded... the business to them was to get the deal done with as much value as possible, not to prop up the state university where they were headquartered, and if the potential partner was balking and you could get (nearly) the same value from a substitution, you make the substitution.

Would it be nice if UConn got some ancillary benefits from ESPN's facilities being located in Bristol... for us as fans, it sure would. ESPN got tax breaks, but that was about the state getting them to increase employment levels and as a result the number of state income tax-payers to pay back those benefits, not something with a quid pro quo attached.

upstater said:
Pitt also headed the lawsuit against the ACC that Blumenthal was involved with. Oddly, the story goes that the ACC has a vendetta against UConn for the lawsuit. But they let Pitt in?
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Blumenthal was the person who filed the lawsuit in Connecticut court (with Pitt, WVU, Rutgers & UConn as plaintiffs), then ran in front of every TV camera and microphone he could find. The then sued them again, once BC was added separately from Miami/Virginia Tech (and of course named the school and conference officials individually in the lawsuit). As a result, UConn became the poster-child for the lawsuit.
 
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ScottVib said:
They're not supposed to be a friend, they're a business. If the dollars make sense they'd support pushing Louisiana-Monroe to the SEC, but they're not going to act contrary to its financial interest. In 2011 they felt that if the ACC expanded to build inventory made sense in a TV negotiation where the ACC was seeking to increase its own revenues. Syracuse was their first option (thinking it delivered the NY market); ESPN suggested UConn as a partner, the ACC asked if there were alternatives and ESPN responded... the business to them was to get the deal done with as much value as possible, not to prop up the state university where they were headquartered, and if the potential partner was balking and you could get (nearly) the same value from a substitution, you make the substitution.

Would it be nice if UConn got some ancillary benefits from ESPN's facilities being located in Bristol... for us as fans, it sure would. ESPN got tax breaks, but that was about the state getting them to increase employment levels and as a result the number of state income tax-payers to pay back those benefits, not something with a quid pro quo attached.


Blumenthal was the person who filed the lawsuit in Connecticut court (with Pitt, WVU, Rutgers & UConn as plaintiffs), then ran in front of every TV camera and microphone he could find. The then sued them again, once BC was added separately from Miami/Virginia Tech (and of course named the school and conference officials individually in the lawsuit). As a result, UConn became the poster-child for the lawsuit.
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ESPN is a disaster as are BC, Pitt, Syracuse.
 
The ACC is not adding any team unless ESPN puts up huge money. It’s ND or Big 12 teams or a merger with the B12. A merger between the ACC and the B12 would give them clout versus the B1G and the SEC. They could form divisions based on geographic proximity. The combined conference would own a lot of content to get a better TV deal.

Our Avenue to the CFP is through a G5 conference. That’s a plausible path to the CFP for us given the competition. Look at Tulane and JMU.
 
NE Football said:
The ACC is not adding any team unless ESPN puts up huge money. It’s ND or Big 12 teams or a merger with the B12. A merger between the ACC and the B12 would give them clout versus the B1G and the SEC. They could form divisions based on geographic proximity. The combined conference would own a lot of content to get a better TV deal.

Our Avenue to the CFP is through a G5 conference. That’s a plausible path to the CFP for us given the competition. Look at Tulane and JMU.
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That'll be closed down to a max of one team from a G5 after this season. If this were next year... Duke would've taken out JMU and Notre Dame would've taken out Miami. (ACC champ is guaranteed, as is Notre Dame if they are in the top-12)
 
The playoff will be expanded to at least 16 teams and maybe 24 teams. Even with only 1 G5, that’s easier than going through a P2 or P4 conference
 
ScottVib said:
Blumenthal was the person who filed the lawsuit in Connecticut court (with Pitt, WVU, Rutgers & UConn as plaintiffs), then ran in front of every TV camera and microphone he could find. The then sued them again, once BC was added separately from Miami/Virginia Tech (and of course named the school and conference officials individually in the lawsuit). As a result, UConn became the poster-child for the lawsuit.
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I still don't buy it. Pitt's Nordenburg was vilifying BC and the ACC in the media. He was calling them outright liars. Some schools that ended up in the ACC did even worse, personally accosting the BC President at academic events.
 
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NE Football said:
The ACC is not adding any team unless ESPN puts up huge money. It’s ND or Big 12 teams or a merger with the B12. A merger between the ACC and the B12 would give them clout versus the B1G and the SEC. They could form divisions based on geographic proximity. The combined conference would own a lot of content to get a better TV deal.

Our Avenue to the CFP is through a G5 conference. That’s a plausible path to the CFP for us given the competition. Look at Tulane and JMU.
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They want the NCAA money. They are going to break from the NCAA.

This means that they will have to create a new structure.

One could argue the expansion of conferences has been a deliberate attempt to weaken the concept of conferences in the first place.

Once they take the bball tourney away from the NCAA they will reorganize the entire thing.
 
upstater said:
I still don't buy it. Pitt's Nordenburg was vilifying BC and the ACC in the media. He was calling them outright liars. Some schools that ended up in the ACC did even worse, personally accosting the BC President at academic events.
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Keep in mind BC's fear of sharing a market magnified their concerns the fear + prior bad acts (even if the fear is the actual motivation and the lawsuit the justification). They had been passed by UConn basketball with relative ease, if football was on equal footing they feared that next (UConn actually won more Big East titles (two) than BC, which won one, as one of four co-champions in 2004; despite BCs much longer tenure in the conference, let alone its longer tenure as a major college program). Even without that advantage UConn continues to out-draw BC in Boston for basketball and the Fenway Bowl.
 
WrenchFan69 said:
One of the comments is "UConn does not have the financial resources" - as if we haven't been doing more with less and ignoring that entering a power conference would finally give us financial resources? Not a serious bunch over there
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no, not the sharpest tools. but some do acknowledge the advantages that UConn does have

"It's a bit ridiculous to confidently assert that UConn couldn't compete in the ACC due to a lack of resources. (i) If they joined the ACC, they'd have more revenue and media access to invest in their programs, (ii) Other schools have joined "power" conferences from "lesser" ones and done fine, (iii) Even if UConn never had a winning season in football, they make up for it in other sports (Mens/Womens Basketball, namely). That would provide more value to the conference than plenty of other schools do currently."
 
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WrenchFan69 said:
One of the comments is "UConn does not have the financial resources" -
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One other thing regarding resources. IIRC, AD Dave tweeted out a few months back that, Uconn, had a record setting total of around $51 million in donation for athletics, alone, in the last fiscal year.
 
WrenchFan69 said:
One of the comments is "UConn does not have the financial resources" - as if we haven't been doing more with less and ignoring that entering a power conference would finally give us financial resources? Not a serious bunch over there
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Sadly this is such a common take about us.There's a Clemson fan on the ACC subreddit I often interact with because the only thing I ever see him comment about is UConn, and how they don't belong in the ACC. His main argument is that UConn Athletics runs a deficit, citing the state subsidies, and that we don't generate the money needed to create value for the ACC

...he seems to be forgetting the obvious facts that 1). If UConn were in the ACC, we wouldn't need to rely on such heavy subsidies, because obviously our media payout would be supplanting it (also Memphis and USF, other top candidates are also heavily subsidized but nobody ever critiques them like us), and 2). We use the subsidy to maintain a P4-level AD. Take any school out of the ACC and make them independent; they would also be running a deficit and require subsidies to be competitive

The argument that UConn shouldn't join the P4 because they don't bring enough money/resources is kind of like shoving your grandma down the stairs and then complaining about how she's crippled. Completely moronic
 
ScottVib said:
They're not supposed to be a friend, they're a business. If the dollars make sense they'd support pushing Louisiana-Monroe to the SEC, but they're not going to act contrary to its financial interest. In 2011 they felt that if the ACC expanded to build inventory made sense in a TV negotiation where the ACC was seeking to increase its own revenues. Syracuse was their first option (thinking it delivered the NY market); ESPN suggested UConn as a partner, the ACC asked if there were alternatives and ESPN responded... the business to them was to get the deal done with as much value as possible, not to prop up the state university where they were headquartered, and if the potential partner was balking and you could get (nearly) the same value from a substitution, you make the substitution.

Would it be nice if UConn got some ancillary benefits from ESPN's facilities being located in Bristol... for us as fans, it sure would. ESPN got tax breaks, but that was about the state getting them to increase employment levels and as a result the number of state income tax-payers to pay back those benefits, not something with a quid pro quo attached.


Blumenthal was the person who filed the lawsuit in Connecticut court (with Pitt, WVU, Rutgers & UConn as plaintiffs), then ran in front of every TV camera and microphone he could find. The then sued them again, once BC was added separately from Miami/Virginia Tech (and of course named the school and conference officials individually in the lawsuit). As a result, UConn became the poster-child for the lawsuit.
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The second paragraph is somewhat confusing. What ancillary benefits could they give? They have gone out of their way to screw UConn for the last decade plus. ESPN could have easily funded UConn to the ACC and told the Conference that it is UConn or no deal. They did not do that and won't do it seems.
 
WrenchFan69 said:
It's time for the ACC to add UConn. They need to do something for their 9 game football schedule and I don't believe there's a better or more serious option.

We beat their football champ straight up. Beat BC. Should have beaten Syracuse. Have more wins over ACC opponents in the last two years than Florida State. Then we made a great hire and continued to invest in the sport. All without real media revenue. Plus basketball, baseball, and soccer success. And the geographic footprint works.

ESPN allegedly already agreed to pay pro rata to add us to their portion of the B12 deal and they should be drooling at the opportunity to get our men's and women's basketball teams back on their networks full time.
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I don't fault your logic, but given that Clemson and FSU have veto power over admissionsand that neither one of us have been in favor of us as a admission target in the past, in all likelihood nothing's happening until there are at least some defections from the ACC. Hopefully those two ass hats.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
If they offered us full share for all sports except football (which i imagine has to be more than our BE revenue) and a reasonable (maybe 20% of a full share) football payout, gradually increasing to a full share over a certain number of years or further realignment, whichever comes first, we should jump at it.
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Agree if the invite was today. If the invite was after a significant loss of existing membership, we might have more leverage.
 
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ScottVib said:
If you believe the various articles that came out in the 2011 expansion, UConn was the preferred partner of ESPN with Syracuse. When BC didn't want UConn they asked ESPN if there was anyone else that could generate the same payout. Pitt generated the same payout and UConn was pushed aside (Pitt then helped to vote down the Big East's TV deal with ESPN that was in discussion at the same time).
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When you say Pitt generated the same payout, I think what you're saying is ESPN agreed to pay a full share for Connecticut or Pittsburgh. Given that the ACC could continue to expand and damage its main rival, which always was the point of expansion, and not dilute its payout, it was easy for the other schools to acquiesce to Boston College's request that UConn not be given an invite.

But here's the thing. If ESPN had said no, we want Connecticut, then we would would have been in the ACC two decades ago. That's hundreds of millions of lost revenue for the school and the state. With the benefit of hindsight, the states should have reached out to ESPN after the initial ACC raid on the big east and indicated that it would appreciate if ESPN would give the university to consideration for any future expansion. That didn't happen and we are where we are.
 
Kolumbo said:
no, not the sharpest tools. but some do acknowledge the advantages that UConn does have

"It's a bit ridiculous to confidently assert that UConn couldn't compete in the ACC due to a lack of resources. (i) If they joined the ACC, they'd have more revenue and media access to invest in their programs, (ii) Other schools have joined "power" conferences from "lesser" ones and done fine, (iii) Even if UConn never had a winning season in football, they make up for it in other sports (Mens/Womens Basketball, namely). That would provide more value to the conference than plenty of other schools do currently."
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It also doesn't take into account that, even without a P4 media distribution, Connecticut spends competitively with P4 colleges. It also doesn't take into account that unlike some schools that have made the jump up, Connecticut doesn't need to dramatically upgrade facilities. Think about Rutgers. They had the leverage future payments in order to be even vaguely competitive. The RAC still isn't at the level of a big time university. That's not our situation.

For as much as people complain about Gampel, it is a great on campus venue. People complain about are not having a football stadium on campus, but Renschler field is a terrific venue. There's not a bad seat in the house in the tailgating is excellent. Werth, Shenkman, and Burton are all first class facilities. Likewise, baseball, hockey, soccer, and even softball and volleyball all have terrific venues. We are well positioned to hit the ground running in the P4. All we need is the invite.
 
cellocgg said:
There's a Clemson fan on the ACC subreddit I often interact with because the only thing I ever see him comment about is UConn, and how they don't belong in the ACC. His main argument is that UConn Athletics runs a deficit, citing the state subsidies, and that we don't generate the money needed to create value for the ACC
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For what it's worth, that deficit represents the state and universities commitment to athletics. It's a badge of honor, not a mark of shame. Even without P4 money, the university of Connecticut is committed to competing in athletics at the highest level and has done so successfully in pretty much every sport.

Fully agree with your point, though, that deficit goes away once we have a P4 membership.
 
CL82 said:
For what it's worth, that deficit represents the state and universities commitment to athletics. It's a badge of honor, not a mark of shame. Even without P4 money, the university of Connecticut is committed to competing in athletics at the highest level and has done so successfully in pretty much every sport.

Fully agree with your point, though, that deficit goes away once we have a P4 membership.
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100%. For fans of a conference that love to talk about how well regarded they are academically, they sure are stupid
 
CL82 said:
It also doesn't take into account that, even without a P4 media distribution, Connecticut spends competitively with P4 colleges. It also doesn't take into account that unlike some schools that have made the jump up, Connecticut doesn't need to dramatically upgrade facilities. Think about Rutgers. They had the leverage future payments in order to be even vaguely competitive. The RAC still isn't at the level of a big time university. That's not our situation.

For as much as people complain about Gampel, it is a great on campus venue. People complain about are not having a football stadium on campus, but Renschler field is a terrific venue. There's not a bad seat in the house in the tailgating is excellent. Werth, Shenkman, and Burton are all first class facilities. Likewise, baseball, hockey, soccer, and even softball and volleyball all have terrific venues. We are well positioned to hit the ground running in the P4. All we need is the invite.
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If they looked at the big picture, and maybe they will start to, Clemson and FSU should be happy to have UConn. It SHOULD be another win on their football schedules, at least in the short term. And those wins would look much better than beating bcu. They also get the benefit of playing our Olympic sports and recruiting in the Northeast much closer to NYC than su and cuse.
 
Kolumbo said:
If they looked at the big picture, and maybe they will start to, Clemson and FSU should be happy to have UConn. It SHOULD be another win on their football schedules, at least in the short term. And those wins would look much better than beating bcu. They also get the benefit of playing our Olympic sports and recruiting in the Northeast much closer to NYC than su and cuse.
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Maybe, but that's not the way they've seen it, at least to date.
 
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