We need to stop listening to the "Big East Sucks" Doom and Gloomers

[hank970]

I'm not trying to crap on the league. Good God, everyone is having trouble reading lately.

My point was, and still is, that we NEED the Big East to step up their b-ball investment. I've already stated that we are the best non P4 league out there, and I've stated it multiple times.

Nova finally decided to go big and replace Neptune. Great. That's what we need. Schools like Seton Hall and DePaul and Providence are going to need to step up too. You should know more than most on this board that I was "all in" on Independent football and Big East Olympics. And it saved both.

This is an arms race. The entire Elite Eight were P4 schools. If half of our schools in the conference don't invest heavily (despite being in some of the highest population cities in the country), then we are our own worst enemy...

Methinks you folks attach way too much importance to having NYC, Philly, and other eastern seaboard towns in your neighborhood. Their large populations, none of which is particularly invested in college athletics, mean little in terms of program success. Case in point: with the exception of Houston and maybe Duke (if you take into account Durham's proximity to Raleigh), none of the teams in the Elite Eight is located in a high population center. Clearly, other factors define success.

As regards football, consider a place like Tuscaloosa or even the whole state of Alabama. If there were a strong correlation between population and money, then how would you explain the University of Alabama's success monetarily and on the gridiron?

 

[pepband99]

You think everything is fine with the higher education industry, I do not. We will find out who is right.

How did your strawman-o-matic get that from "I think 1 is somewhat likely?" I agreed with you.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

How did your strawman-o-matic get that from "I think 1 is somewhat likely?" I agreed with you.

You think things can stay as they are with both higher education and with broadcast media of college sports for 7 years. That is the most spectacularly optimistic assessment I have read of that industry on the entire internet. That is a level of blowing rainbow bubbles out the butt of a unicorn that is truly unprecedented. I am sure that every college administrator hopes you are right.

 

[pepband99]

You think things can stay as they are with both higher education and with broadcast media of college sports for 7 years. That is the most spectacularly optimistic assessment I have read of that industry on the entire internet. That is a level of blowing rainbow bubbles out the butt of a unicorn that is truly unprecedented. I am sure that every college administrator hopes you are right.

Err - ok. Maybe fire up your argument bot again, and see if if comes back with something remotely tied to what i said.

My point is - every seismic movement in athletics has been a black swan event triggering it. The collapse of the PAC12, NIL, the House Settlement, etc.

Even with all that chaos, the NCAA/Turner deal hasn't budged. The humongous check solves a lot of problems that people have with the setup. It is more likely it will continue to, at least for the next 7 years. Who knows? The reneg of this contract might trigger the breakup - it's certainly possible.

 

[ScottVib]

It’ll be interesting to see how things play out. The FBS schools are worried that the non-football schools will be able to outspend them on basketball… with the article throwing out $7M for the roster spend, but for the top non-FBS conference that would represent 100% of their media revenue, the biggest contributor to (most of) their budgets. That is of course before you take into account coaching salaries, facilities, and of course the rest of the sports within the athletic department.

It’ll be interesting to see how the schools navigate things as they figure out how to allocate resources and who/whom is most successful in securing more resources (between in-house NIL and/or other innovations). I think between budgetary and enrollment realities it’s going to be a tough sell to go back to the well for even more institutional support, so ADs are going to have to get creative.

 

[Waquoit]

If you think that having 2 coaches out of the top 40 is destroying my point about a lack of investment from this conference, then you aren't good at understanding points...

You are literally pointless. Where's the alleged lack of investment? The one example you gave was inaccurate. Villanova didn't "go on the cheap" to replace Wright, they got who they thought was their up-and-coming guy. When it didn't work, then they shelled out a ton of dough for the next guy. Just last year SJU, G'Town and DePaul ponied up for improved coaches. Creighton and UConn resigned their top coaches. Xavier replaced a name coach with a name coach. The Big East is known for having a strong, if not the strongest slate of coaches. And you use that to insist the Big East doesn't invest. Is every day opposite day in Danworld?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Err - ok. Maybe fire up your argument bot again, and see if if comes back with something remotely tied to what i said.

My point is - every seismic movement in athletics has been a black swan event triggering it. The collapse of the PAC12, NIL, the House Settlement, etc.

Even with all that chaos, the NCAA/Turner deal hasn't budged. The humongous check solves a lot of problems that people have with the setup. It is more likely it will continue to, at least for the next 7 years. Who knows? The reneg of this contract might trigger the breakup - it's certainly possible.

The higher education business model in the U.S. is disintegrating before our eyes. Between demographic cliffs, massive cuts to research budgets, brain drains of immigrant professors, and endowment taxes, sports are not a priority for any college president, and breakeven with athletics is not good enough. They need to squeeze every nickel they can out of every place they can. See Maryland not paying for an extra night of hotel rooms.

Those 3 black swan events all happened within the last three years. Black swan events are supposed to be an every 10 year thing, not an every 1 year thing. And just because everything has not collapsed does not mean anything is OK. I think you have an absurdly optimistic view of the future of the U.S. university system.

 

[UConnDan97]

You are literally pointless. Where's the alleged lack of investment? The one example you gave was inaccurate. Villanova didn't "go on the cheap" to replace Wright, they got who they thought was their up-and-coming guy. When it didn't work, then they shelled out a ton of dough for the next guy. Just last year SJU, G'Town and DePaul ponied up for improved coaches. Creighton and UConn resigned their top coaches. Xavier replaced a name coach with a name coach. The Big East is known for having a strong, if not the strongest slate of coaches. And you use that to insist the Big East doesn't invest. Is every day opposite day in Danworld?

In the last 3 years since Jay Wright left (after a final Four appearance and 30 wins), Nova went .500, 2 games above .500, and 4 games above .500. They haven't had 20 wins since he left. But Nova didn't go on the cheap with both coach and NIL?? I must have missed all the Big East teams in the Elite Eight, but I guess it must be my tv reception in Opposite Danworld.

Bottom line: I WANT the Big East to succeed. Without their success, UConn gets hurt. It's as simple as that. Not sure why people can't comprehend that here. But it's also hard to understand how people think the Big East is collectively doing everything in their power when we don't get a team in Elite Eight a year after having only qualified 3 teams last year. My interest is only in UConn's best interest, and I hope the other teams start to up their interest...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

In the last 3 years since Jay Wright left (after a final Four appearance and 30 wins), Nova went .500, 2 games above .500, and 4 games above .500. They haven't had 20 wins since he left. But Nova didn't go on the cheap with both coach and NIL?? I must have missed all the Big East teams in the Elite Eight, but I guess it must be my tv reception in Opposite Danworld.

Bottom line: I WANT the Big East to succeed. Without their success, UConn gets hurt. It's as simple as that. Not sure why people can't comprehend that here. But it's also hard to understand how people think the Big East is collectively doing everything in their power when we don't get a team in Elite Eight a year after having only qualified 3 teams last year. My interest is only in UConn's best interest, and I hope the other teams start to up their interest...

I try to take you seriously, and then you drop the stupid 3 teams from 2024 argument, which is a completely dishonest argument. The Big East was really strong last year, but other than St. Johns, no one else was even close to a bid last year. That is just the way it worked out. This year, the Big 10 had the first two out. Are you arguing that there is a wide-ranging conspiracy against the Big 10?

 

[UConnDan97]

I try to take you seriously, and then you drop the stupid 3 teams from 2024 argument, which is a completely dishonest argument. The Big East was really strong last year, but other than St. Johns, no one else was even close to a bid last year. That is just the way it worked out. This year, the Big 10 had the first two out. Are you arguing that there is a wide-ranging conspiracy against the Big 10?

A conspiracy against the Big 10???

What on earth are you ever talking about, Nelson? They had 8 teams qualify for this year's tournament! The second most of any conference. I swear you just throw words on a page to see if anything makes sense. It doesn't.

I'll bow out of this conversation because it's clear that people just want to argue about nonsense...

 

[Kolumbo]

12 people booing vs 3 million extra per year.

12 people...3 million...12 people... it's really a hard call, isn't it?!?

I guess not. Choosing Villanova over Maryland in the Big Ten. I guess it's good to be the king, on campus.

 

[UConnDan97]

I guess not. Choosing Villanova over Maryland in the Big Ten. I guess it's good to be the king, on campus.

They ponied up the extra 3 million, like I said they'd have to in order to get him. Pretty simple, really...

 

[jostar1]

 

[freescooter]

Is the Big East the best non-P4 conference? Yes

Would it be better for UConn to be in a P4 conference? Also Yes

The answers to these two questions are painfully obvious to all that follow college sports. But I would bet money that I can't get two "Yes" answers out of Nelson...

There is a group, Nelson being emblematic, that would prefer a scenario where UConn become Providence College. They view the Big East members as peers. And mens basketball as the only sport that matters. The more extreme among them, and they absolutely exist, weren’t all that happy with yesterday’s Womens championship because Geno will be sucking all the air out of the room for the next few weeks. (I watched the game with one so I know they exist) or the fact that the hockey team seems to finally be becoming a national player. And they have tried to undermine the football program since it’s inception.

 

[Ldandy]

There is a group, Nelson being emblematic, that would prefer a scenario where UConn become Providence College. They view the Big East members as peers. And mens basketball as the only sport that matters. The more extreme among them, and they absolutely exist, weren’t all that happy with yesterday’s Womens championship because Geno will be sucking all the air out of the room for the next few weeks. (I watched the game with one so I know they exist) or the fact that the hockey team seems to finally be becoming a national player. And they have tried to undermine the football program since it’s inception.

I have zero idea if this is a real thing or not, but I've read about it a lot on this board over the years. I guess I'll never understand the idea of being just a fan of this or that sport if I was an alum. Realistically most people can only follow 5-6 sports with any consistent interest, but you should at least hope that the remainder do as well as possible even if you don't follow them.

The idea of people trying to actively undermine one team in the hope that another will benefit blows my mind. I didn't go to UConn, but I started following the football team when a player whose family I know was on the team. Despite difficult years, I've become a fan of the team and made contributions to your AD. I don't follow women's basketball but I'm happy for the kids that won the title. I could never imagine thinking that their success and the attention that it brings was taking away from football.

 

[freescooter]

I have zero idea if this is a real thing or not, but I've read about it a lot on this board over the years. I guess I'll never understand the idea of being just a fan of this or that sport if I was an alum. Realistically most people can only follow 5-6 sports with any consistent interest, but you should at least hope that the remainder do as well as possible even if you don't follow them.

The idea of people trying to actively undermine one team in the hope that another will benefit blows my mind. I didn't go to UConn, but I started following the football team when a player whose family I know was on the team. Despite difficult years, I've become a fan of the team and made contributions to your AD. I don't follow women's basketball but I'm happy for the kids that won the title. I could never imagine thinking that their success and the attention that it brings was taking away from football.

I agree with you 100%. But you haven’t met the UConn basketball onlies. Even our AD comments on it when he makes presentations to Alumni and other groups. He does so obliquely of course, but it’s clear what he means.

And here is another reality. The New Big East isn’t that good. The lower half of the league is mostly mid-majors. Other than UConn and Villanova, and Villanova is still questionable going forward unless you believe a guy who has taken 1 team to the Sweet 16 and 0 conference regular season or tournament titles is the next big thing. We had five bids this year and nobody got beyond the first weekend. Last year we only had 3 and UConn did what it did. The other 2 not so much. Doesn’t give you lots of reasons to give NBE bubble teams much credence.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There is a group, Nelson being emblematic, that would prefer a scenario where UConn become Providence College. They view the Big East members as peers. And mens basketball as the only sport that matters. The more extreme among them, and they absolutely exist, weren’t all that happy with yesterday’s Womens championship because Geno will be sucking all the air out of the room for the next few weeks. (I watched the game with one so I know they exist) or the fact that the hockey team seems to finally be becoming a national player. And they have tried to undermine the football program since it’s inception.

You wish we were still in the AAC. I heard you the first time.

 

[UConnDan97]

I have zero idea if this is a real thing or not, but I've read about it a lot on this board over the years. I guess I'll never understand the idea of being just a fan of this or that sport if I was an alum. Realistically most people can only follow 5-6 sports with any consistent interest, but you should at least hope that the remainder do as well as possible even if you don't follow them.

The idea of people trying to actively undermine one team in the hope that another will benefit blows my mind. I didn't go to UConn, but I started following the football team when a player whose family I know was on the team. Despite difficult years, I've become a fan of the team and made contributions to your AD. I don't follow women's basketball but I'm happy for the kids that won the title. I could never imagine thinking that their success and the attention that it brings was taking away from football.

It's unfortunately true, although folks can reasonably argue to the degree that we have this problem. And it's one that I could never comprehend, nor do I have any patience for.

Who doesn't want to root for UConn Hockey?? I mean they play "Brass Bonanza" (the Hartford Whalers song) every time they score to honor our state.

Who doesn't want to root for Women's hoops?? I mean, has there ever been a more dominant force in sports over the last 30 years? And they have bathed UConn in glory and great press.

And finally, who doesn't want to root for the football team?? We've successfully climbed from 1-AA to the Fiesta Bowl in a matter of a decade. And we're back to bowling on a regular basis.

Any team who's name starts with "UConn" is MY team, no matter what the sport (yes, I'm looking at you, UConn Debate Team!)...

 

[History Geek]

You wish we were still in the AAC. I heard you the first time.

No we don't. We recognize that the current set up is better than staying in the AAC. It was a masterstroke by AD David Benedict et al when they pulled that off. However, it has to be a temporary stop on the way to the big boy's table. First Power invite we get, we go.

Having said that, my favorite scenario would be to figure out a way to "merge" the Big East and the ACC. IDK if that is feasible though.

 

[Waquoit]

No we don't. We recognize that than staying in the AAC.

I don't know that you can say "we" here. Maybe you "recognize that the current set up is better", but the Scoots et al of the Yard still believe that UConn's path to to a power invite had a better chance if we stayed in the AAC. They won't even admit that leaving the AAC revitalized the basketball programs.

 

[businesslawyer]

I don't know that you can say "we" here. Maybe you "recognize that the current set up is better", but the Scoots et al of the Yard still believe that UConn's path to to a power invite had a better chance if we stayed in the AAC. They won't even admit that leaving the AAC revitalized the basketball programs.

This is such a silly discussion. Even if you thought we should stay in the AAC when we left it we would have had to do what we ended up doing when UCF, Houston and Cincy left for the Big XII anyway. And we wouldn't have been invited then because of where our football was.

 

[ZooCougar]

You wish we were still in the AAC. I heard you the first time.

There you go. I knew you wouldn’t be able hold back your favorite straw man argument.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't know that you can say "we" here. Maybe you "recognize that the current set up is better", but the Scoots et al of the Yard still believe that UConn's path to to a power invite had a better chance if we stayed in the AAC. They won't even admit that leaving the AAC revitalized the basketball programs.

I have seen exactly nobody say such a thing.

Meanwhile half the basketball board wants to cancel football and be St. John’s.

 

[History Geek]

I though moving out of the AAC was the wrong move at the time because I thought that meant we were giving up on getting into a P whatever. Turns out I was wrong -- turning around the basketball program, shoring up the rest of the athletic department, all while (probably) making independent football work for the short term is the best path.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There you go. I knew you wouldn’t be able hold back your favorite straw man argument.

It is not a straw man when it is true.

 

[ZooCougar]

Dave Benedict shoots Waylon down hard.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Dave Benedict shoots Waylon down hard.

Zoo every other post: UConn's athletic program is finished.

Zoo the other of every other post: I never said that UConn's athletic program is finished.

The benefit of being on both sides of an issue is that you can always claim you were right.

 

[Derucky]

He didn't say that at all. He said UConn would be better off in a P4 Conference. The AAC is not a power conference. The Big East is a great conference for schools that are not FBS. For an FBS school, not so much. The State of CT dropped the ball decades ago on promoting UConn on a national level.

6 NCs - obviously, NOTHING would make you happy.

 

[Derucky]

You're not wrong but the point still stands. They will not allow their programs to be at a disadvantage to the BE schools. It's kind of the point of that Autonomy designation.

They're still FURIOUS that their teams have to win on the field and court and that money isn't everything. They also couldn't care less about the kids. Just like BCU.

 

[noeynox]

They're still FURIOUS that their teams have to win on the field and court and that money isn't everything. They also couldn't care less about the kids. Just like BCU.

I think we are blinded as UConn fans. Florida from the SEC just won the national title. The other teams in the FF were also spending huge on hoops. Hurley's 23 team might be one of the lasts where you had home grown juniors being key pieces of a national title team. Things have changed that much that quick.