We look clueless. Is it coaching?

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not saying anything about Ollie there, dope. I'm just saying Ollie fluffers shouldn't get to use the inexperience card. And being critical about Ollie doesn't make one a hater. Ollie was clearly outcoached by Tom Moore. Does saying so out loud make one a hater?

Yes. You don't get to proclaim him a genius for the Michigan State game and them use excuses for New Mexico (or frankly Q, which was more troubling in some ways). I like him alot, but please put down the Kool Aid, take off the rose colored glasses and just let this play out. I expect that he will encounter lots of bumps on this road, and seeing how he handles them, and how the team responds, is exactly what this exercise is all about.

 

[aceboon]

How? All I've seen is variations of "no he wasn't".

And we're waiting on you to show how he was. No generalities, what strategies did Moore employ? We're waiting...

 

[Waquoit]

And we're waiting on you to show how he was. No generalities, what strategies did Moore employ? We're waiting...

I answered that question in a reply to you at about 12:45. What have you provided, besides nothing?

 

[Waquoit]

And the things you claim about me calling you a hater aren't true.

I said "But you have Up labelling anyone with any criticism a "hater" in response to your post: "Notice the haters kept their mouths shut for 2 straight weeks until last night."

What's untrue?

 

[aceboon]

I answered that question in a reply to you at about 12:45. What have you provided, besides nothing?

LMFAO, this is your generic, vanilla response:

"Q looked to be well prepared for UConn's offense and they didn't give up many easy looks on D"

When you typed this were you also wearing a bright colored tie and holding a matching highligher, ala Digger? That constitutes "outcoaching"?? So for 38 minutes they were well prepared, but for the rest of regulation and OT they became unprepared? Like I said, if you don't have anything beyond generalities, and can't go beyond canned, Hubert Davis level analysis, then you have nothing and can't back up your claims. In the words of Willy Wonka, good day sir.

 

[Waquoit]

you have nothing and can't back up your claims.

And yet it's more than you provided. UConn won because they had Bazz and Q didn't.

 

[upstater]

How? All I've seen is variations of "no he wasn't".

Game Thread. Highly critical of Tom Moore. In particular his substitutions and his constant carping to the refs.

 

[upstater]

I said "But you have Up labelling anyone with any criticism a "hater" in response to your post: "Notice the haters kept their mouths shut for 2 straight weeks until last night."

What's untrue?

Wasn't referring to you. I was talking about the people who haven't been heard from in over 2 weeks.

If you can't understand the difference, I can't help you.

It's not a good showing to take off and not give credit where credit is due (where so many have in the last couple weeks, given credit to Ollie that is) and then show up on the very night and morning after the first loss.

Can't believe you don't see that.

 

[caw]

The main problem, and I hate laying this on his feet, is that Olander just isn't hitting any open shots. That is allowing the defense to help a lot more on cuts, rebounds and double the ball. He has a good looking shot, but without actually making a shot, defenses don't need to worry about it. He's 9/27 this year and I know at least 3-4 of those have been dunks or post up shots. If he can start hitting that will open things up a lot more. If he is missing it means he's also out of position to fight for o-boards, leaving only Daniels against two guys.

The secondary problem is the guards usually only drive to score (which they are very, very good at). There has been some good ball movement on drives, but not enough.

 

[aceboon]

And yet it's more than you provided. UConn won because they had Bazz and Q didn't.

I made no claim that either side outcoached the other, so where is the need for me to provide anything? You're the one that stuck your chest out there with claims of Moore outcoaching Ollie. Burden is on you to back that up and you got nothing. When you actually have something in terms of game strategy, share it with the rest of the board, if its more of the same of Shaq-like quips during NBA on TNT, you can hold that.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

And yet it's more than you provided. UConn won because they had Bazz and Q didn't.

That is not a reason to conclude that Moore outcoached Ollie.

 

[Waquoit]

I made no claim that either side outcoached the other, so where is the need for me to provide anything? You're the one that stuck your chest out there with claims of Moore outcoaching Ollie. Burden is on you to back that up and you got nothing. When you actually have something in terms of game strategy, share it with the rest of the board, if its more of the same of Shaq-like quips during NBA on TNT, you can hold that.

You seem to equate "game stategy" with coaching. Strategy is just a subset of coaching. When I watched the game, it was apparent how well Q was defending. That's coaching. UConn's sets weren't popping guys open, hence the lousy shooting percentage. That's good preparation, coaching. UConn's eventually wore Q down because they had the best player. You would think that the inferior team, after giving up a lead late in regulation, would be shot in OT. Instead they fought back from a late deficit to force another OT. The coach gets credit for keeping them in it, even after their best guy fouled out. The Top 25 team needed 2 OT's to beat an NEC team, I'm not sure how one can say superior strategy won the game for them.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Instead they fought back from a late deficit to force another OT.

And you seem to be confusing "coaching" with " that happens during the course of a game." Uconn built up a lead in the first overtime, got the ball to their best foul shooters on every possession down the stretch, and knocked down every free throw. Quinnipiac had to hit two 3's (one well defended, the other poorly defended by Boatright) to tie it up. Other than Boatright's lousy defense on the second one, Uconn executed the end game as well as they could have. Sometimes the other team makes shots - it's no more complicated than that.

 

[aceboon]

Apparently Boat getting crossed out of his Nikes was a great coaching move by Tom Moore.

And you seem to be confusing "coaching" with " that happens during the course of a game." Uconn built up a lead in the first overtime, got the ball to their best foul shooters on every possession down the stretch, and knocked down every free throw. Quinnipiac had to hit two 3's (one well defended, the other poorly defended by Boatright) to tie it up. Other than Boatright's lousy defense on the second one, Uconn executed the end game as well as they could have. Sometimes the other team makes shots - it's no more complicated than that.

 

[sledog]

How I managed to stay awake for this game is unknown. Let me add, that for last 2 games, it seemed that the opponents mystically weaved thru the offense to the hoop. And a few (uncontested is kind) 3s. Were Q and NM that good?? or has the UConn flirtation with a national ranking this season been short lived??

 

[Husky68]

I'm not saying anything about Ollie there, dope. I'm just saying Ollie fluffers shouldn't get to use the inexperience card. And being critical about Ollie doesn't make one a hater. Ollie was clearly outcoached by Tom Moore. Does saying so out loud make one a hater?

Ollie was clearly out coached by Moore because ??????? Uconn did win, came back from 10 down at the 5 minute mark, overcame 2 late 3's by Q in OT and still won. Q clearly out rebounded Uconn. Not sure what Moore did re out coaching other than have his guys play like Tark's UNLV teams (refs ain't going to call all the banging fouls 'cause it would make the game 5 hours long).
How did Moore do against George Mason, was he clearly outcoached, score seems to suggest that. Could it be GM had some nice big players and had strength up front to negate Q's inside game?
You have noticed how clumbsy TO is haven't you? Against NM he looked like the freshman TO. TO, Wolf and Nolan are a tough inside combo to get much out of. Winning against Q sure as hell involved effective coaching by Uconn as talent between the 2 teams is pretty close, if Moore clearly outcoached Ollie then Q would have won.

 

[Tenspro2002]

People should have to realize/remember that this is Ollie's first coaching experience because this is, in fact, Ollie's first coaching experience. So it would be foolish to expect him to be K or Knight or Jim Calhoun right off the bat, and the wise approach would be to pipe down and watch to see if and how he and his team grow and develop over the course of the season.

Of course it's ridiculous to expect KO to have the coaching chops of a seasoned veteran.

On the other hand, top 10 programs don't waste their time developing a coach. They bring in a proven coach who can win right away and is champing at the bit for a high-profile position.

The question is really -- to mix sports metaphors -- do we consider ourselves in the class of the Yankees of the college basketball world or in the class of the Kansas City Royals?

 

[chiller99]

I dont have any problem saying it even if no one else agrees,I think this team has already over achieved. When looking at the roster pre season I thought this team would be a cellar dweller of the conference.

 

[aceboon]

Kansas did just what you described, Roy Williams prior head coaching experience was as a high school coach. He served 1o years as an assistant at UNC but I don't think that's far greater than the years KO put in the NBA and then alongside JC.

Of course it's ridiculous to expect KO to have the coaching chops of a seasoned veteran.

On the other hand, top 10 programs don't waste their time developing a coach. They bring in a proven coach who can win right away and is champing at the bit for a high-profile position.

The question is really -- to mix sports metaphors -- do we consider ourselves in the class of the Yankees of the college basketball world or in the class of the Kansas City Royals?

 

[ctchamps]

Very true. Unfortunately, the recruiting restrictions (scholarship reductions...) over the past couple years is showing now. Plus, a fair amount of bad press over the same time period (Nate Miles, APR, retirement questions,...) hasn't help recruiting either.

And the loss of players to the NBA and transfers.

 

[ctchamps]

One freaking loss and this board goes into meltdown mode! We are not going to pick up where we left off. This a new journey like it or not. Between JC leaving, sanctions and transfers, I expected to take a step back. Enjoy the ride!

Believe me this is not meltdown mode. This more like arctic chill than Three Mile Island or Chernoble

 

[Tenspro2002]

Kansas did just what you described, Roy Williams prior head coaching experience was as a high school coach. He served 1o years as an assistant at UNC but I don't think that's far greater than the years KO put in the NBA and then alongside JC.

Conversely, then UNC did the other thing that I described -- bringing in championship-caliber coach Roy Williams. Granted, that was a special circumstance where UNC was Roy's dream job and UNC was able to lure him away from another blue-blood. But if we really consider ourselves in the company of UNC, Duke, Indiana, and Kansas, we should at least be able to hire a proven high-major coach if we desire.

 

[aceboon]

Conversely, then UNC did the other thing that I described -- bringing in championship-caliber coach Roy Williams. Granted, that was a special circumstance where UNC was Roy's dream job and UNC was able to lure him away from another blue-blood. But if we really consider ourselves in the company of UNC, Duke, Indiana, and Kansas, we should at least be able to hire a proven high-major coach if we desire.

Yea, that's after they ran Doherty out there, who came in with headcoaching experience, UNC had no choice but to hit a homerun with their next hire. Going back to my example of Williams that you so quickly sidestepped, his first year coaching KU they were banned from the postseason, just like UConn is.

 

[caw]

Conversely, then UNC did the other thing that I described -- bringing in championship-caliber coach Roy Williams. Granted, that was a special circumstance where UNC was Roy's dream job and UNC was able to lure him away from another blue-blood. But if we really consider ourselves in the company of UNC, Duke, Indiana, and Kansas, we should at least be able to hire a proven high-major coach if we desire.

UK hired Sutton from Arkansas, Pitino after he was looking to come back from the NBA, Tubby moved from Georgia, Gillespie from TA&M, Calipari came from Memphis.

UNC went with Doherty from ND and then Williams from KU

KU took Self from Illinois

IU took Sampson from Oklahoma and Crean from Marquette.

The scenario closest to UConn's is probably IU, where Mike Davis actually did a decent job for his first few years. Then he fell apart because he couldn't recruit.

 

[PomonaHusky]

And the loss of players to the NBA and transfers.

Very true also. Particularly the transfers (which stemmed from the NCAA ban...). I would think most coaches that have been successful getting kids into the NBA (i.e., Calhoun) have a good understanding of which players will leave for the NBA and recruit accordingly (to fill the expected vacancies following NBA departures).