Watching Kiah defend Griner

[easttexastrash]

Please explain something to me.......Nenka Ogwumike at 6'2" is averaging 8.8 rpg. Britanny (Brittney) Griner at 6'8' is averaging only 6.7 rpg. BG is SIX INCHES TALLER than Ogwumike, yet Nneka is out rebounding her.
How is this possible? Imagine for a moment if Nneka was 6"8, what kind of numbers she would be putting up then. It appears that Nneka is outworking BG, and has more of a will to win.

Nneka brings her lunch pale and hard hat to work every night!. She continues to play like a #1 draft pick. Ogwumike has been an integral part of the Sparks current run of 15-1. We're almost at the half way point of the season, and the Sparks have only lost once (to the Lynx in over time). Barring injury, they are going to be hard to beat the rest of the way. Don't think they won't be thinking "championship" when play resumes after the Olympic break. Go Sparks.

Nneka is one of the best athletes in the WNBA, if not the best. She is much more nimble at 6-2 that BG is at 6-8 with her size 17 men's shoe. BG will never be able to react as quickly as smaller players will be able to and most rebounds are secured by moving to the ball. Rebounds seldom just fall into your lap. So, if Neka were 6-8 and her feet were much bigger she wouldn't rebound as well because her movement wouldn't be as good. You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet.

I agree that BG should be a better rebounder but when I watch her it is obvious to me that she has never received the coaching that she needs to be a better rebounder. She has some bad techniques that seem like they would be easily correctable that would probably help her secure a few more rebounds per game.

Having said that, BG is asked to defend anyone who comes into the paint, often having to defend guards who have blown past their defenders on the perimeter. She is typically defending the basket, not floating around in the lane to secure rebounds like many other players have the luxury of doing. Nneka is not asked to play that role and is therefore much more often in a position to secure the rebound on a missed shot.

 

[easttexastrash]

I think Griner concentrates on blocking shots too much. She should just alter shots and get the rebounds.

She gets in early foul trouble in too many games.

She is going to be in the same rebounding position whether she tries to block the shot or alter the shot. Not trying to block so many shots would definitely help in keeping her out of foul trouble but it would have zero impact on improving her rebounding numbers.

 

[easttexastrash]

I've always felt that Griner has never gotten the proper coaching on playing offensive center in college or the pros. She makes every move harder on herself and gives the defense an advantage.

She should be unstoppable on offense. Even Kiah shouldn't be able to contain her.

Griner needs to get the ball and just drive to the basket. She hesitates too much, thus allowing the double team to come. If she drives to the basket quickly and happens to run over a player or two the defenders may be a little less likely to want to take a charge after she has plowed through them a time or two.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Tiffany Hayes has turned into a great pro player. She is the biggest surprise to me of all the UCONN grads as she has turned into a go-to player for Atlanta, often outplaying Angel.

Tiff is slim, fit and... has handle! Perfect for the W

 

[Carnac]

Nneka is one of the best athletes in the WNBA, if not the best. She is much more nimble at 6-2 that BG is at 6-8 with her size 17 men's shoe. BG will never be able to react as quickly as smaller players will be able to and most rebounds are secured by moving to the ball. Rebounds seldom just fall into your lap. So, if Neka were 6-8 and her feet were much bigger she wouldn't rebound as well because her movement wouldn't be as good. You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet.

I agree that BG should be a better rebounder but when I watch her it is obvious to me that she has never received the coaching that she needs to be a better rebounder. She has some bad techniques that seem like they would be easily correctable that would probably help her secure a few more rebounds per game.

Having said that, BG is asked to defend anyone who comes into the paint, often having to defend guards who have blown past their defenders on the perimeter. She is typically defending the basket, not floating around in the lane to secure rebounds like many other players have the luxury of doing. Nneka is not asked to play that role and is therefore much more often in a position to secure the rebound on a missed shot.

 

[Carnac]

easttexastrash said: "You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet".

Well ET, it's time for Carnac to share some background information (experience). I played 4 years of college basketball in the early '70's in the sooner state. I'm 6'9". I played center. This was before 1,2,3,4,5 positions. Nike's were still a dream. We wore Chuck Taylor "All Stars" the first 2 years. This was before the 3 pt. arc was incorporated into the game (1986-1987 season) This was also during the time "dunking" was not allowed in men's college basketball.

I was a leaper. I had "hops". I led our team in rebounds every year. There's an art to rebounding. I also had a nose for the ball (like Dennis Rodman). I could tell where the ball was coming off the rim before it hit. I wore/wear size 16's. I could not keep up with the guards, but I could keep up with the forwards and the opposing center. I averaged 12-14 rebounds a game. I could stand flat-footed under the basket palming a ball in each hand, jump up and dunk both of them. Only one other guy on the team could do that. When I look up at the baskets now, they look a lot higher up than they did 45 years ago.

I said all of that to say: I have literally already walked a mile in Brittany's shoes. I know what I'm talking about. Believe me, I know how rough and physical it can be under the boards. She can do better in the rebounding department. She's always the tallest player on the floor. No excuses. I still maintain she should grab at least 10 rebounds a game. Players that pride themselves in being a good rebounder usually are. I was. My coach didn't need me to score. He said he had 4 other guys that could put the ball in the basket. All he needed me to do was REBOUND and block shots. THAT's what I did (I needed to keep my scholarship).

 

[easttexastrash]

easttexastrash said: "You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet".

Well ET, it's time for Carnac to share some background information (experience). I played 4 years of college basketball in the early '70's in the sooner state. I'm 6'9". I played center. This was before 1,2,3,4,5 positions. Nike's were still a dream. We wore Chuck Taylor "All Stars" the first 2 years. This was before the 3 pt. arc was incorporated into the game (1986-1987 season) This was also during the time "dunking" was not allowed in men's college basketball.

I was a leaper. I had "hops". I led our team in rebounds every year. There's an art to rebounding. I also had a nose for the ball (like Dennis Rodman). I could tell where the ball was coming off the rim before it hit. I wore/wear size 16's. I could not keep up with the guards, but I could keep up with the forwards and the opposing center. I averaged 12-14 rebounds a game. I could stand flat-footed under the basket palming a ball in each hand, jump up and dunk both of them. Only one other guy on the team could do that. When I look up at the baskets now, they look a lot higher up than they did 45 years ago.

I said all of that to say: I have literally already walked a mile in Brittany's shoes. I know what I'm talking about. Believe me, I know how rough and physical it can be under the boards. She can do better in the rebounding department. She's always the tallest player on the floor. No excuses. I still maintain she should grab at least 10 rebounds a game. Players that pride themselves in being a good rebounder usually are. I was. My coach didn't need me to score. He said he had 4 other guys that could put the ball in the basket. All he needed me to do was REBOUND and block shots. THAT's what I did (I needed to keep my scholarship).

So, you are a female wearing a men's size 17 shoe? Are you comparing a male at 6-9 to a female at the same height? If we are going to compare BG to other basketball players then we need to stay with the same gender. Hoe many other players in the WNBA to we compare to met at the same position? I think we will all admit that females at 6-9 are not going to have nearly the same "hops" as a male.

I said that I agree that BG should be a better rebounder, but she simply is not going to be as quick around the basket as players who are a bit shorter and have good leaping abilities. BG is not a good leaper and the fact that she can dunk makes that fact harder for people to see. She can improve her technique and become a slightly better rebounder, but I don't think it will ever be much better because I don't think she has the instincts (nose for the ball) or quick foot movement that makes for a great rebounder. Nina Davis at 5-11 is a better rebounder than BG ever was at Baylor, but it is because she has quick feet and IS a good leaper.

 

[Carnac]

So, you are a female wearing a men's size 17 shoe? Are you comparing a male at 6-9 to a female at the same height? If we are going to compare BG to other basketball players then we need to stay with the same gender. Hoe many other players in the WNBA to we compare to met at the same position? I think we will all admit that females at 6-9 are not going to have nearly the same "hops" as a male.

I said that I agree that BG should be a better rebounder, but she simply is not going to be as quick around the basket as players who are a bit shorter and have good leaping abilities. BG is not a good leaper and the fact that she can dunk makes that fact harder for people to see. She can improve her technique and become a slightly better rebounder, but I don't think it will ever be much better because I don't think she has the instincts (nose for the ball) or quick foot movement that makes for a great rebounder. Nina Davis at 5-11 is a better rebounder than BG ever was at Baylor, but it is because she has quick feet and IS a good leaper.

ET - No, I'm not a female wearing a men's 17. Yes, I am comparing myself to her in that we are both about the same height. My reply was to your statement: "You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet".
THAT's the comment I was replying to, though I admit I got a bit carried away. All I'm saying is that like Griner, I'm tall and I had/have BIG feet, and I moved them pretty good back then. If you or anyone else is not our height or can wear our shoes, then you can only guess what it's like to be this tall or traverse a basketball court. I've been this tall/had these feet since I was 18. That was a long time ago. I must admit, these BIG feet have served me well. I take care of them, they take care of me. It's a beautiful relationship.

Sometimes I'll comment on something that I have no personal experience about, or on a position I've arrived at because of information I've received through other sources. This is not one of those times. I know personally what it's like. I'm not guessing or wondering here. I know from experience. She's playing in her element (women), I played in mine (men). I not talking men vs women. I was not always the tallest player on the floor. I played against a few guys that were taller and heavier than I was, she hasn't. I know what it's like to look up to a guy that has 4 inches on you, and out weighs you by at least 40 pounds that your coach expects you to stop, or at least show down. I don't believe she's ever faced an opponent that was taller than her. She was the tallest women in Division 1 WCBB during her time at Baylor, and I don't believe there were any 6'10" players in the WNBA upon her arrival, or since.

We are in total agreement with context of your second paragraph, especially the Nina Davis reference. I like Nina. If you remember at the end of her freshmen year. I posted that I was impressed with 3 freshmen that year. Davis, Brianna Turner (Notre Dame) and Tyler Scaife (Rutgers). I also predicted that Turner would be an All-American by the end of her junior year. I was right. She did it a year earlier than I thought she would. I'm also pretty sure all three will be drafted by the WNBA. Turner will be a first rounder for sure. Davis and Scaife, I don't know when they'll go. Later.

 

[iri10]

I don't think I agree with this narrative which is essentially saying that Griner isn't athletic enough to dominate the boards (or the game in general). Yeah, she's not going to be as mobile as a shorter player who is also athletic, but she is way, way more mobile than any other player of her size. In fact, she's probably more mobile than any 6'5" player who plays as a pure center (the only 6'5"ers who might be more mobile often play as forwards). She doesn't have to have a higher measured vertical leap than a 6'2" player to snag a rebound. Her reach makes up the difference, provided the positioning is good.

Physicality is not Griner's problem, IMO. Her skill set and mental approach is, as has already been discussed. Griner with Morgan Tuck's brain in her body would be...quite formidable.

The fortunate thing about that is while you can only do so much about physical handicaps, you can do quite a bit about your mental approach and skills development. Though the longer you wait to do so, the harder it probably is.

 

[j66kicker]

Didn't BG train with Kareem 2-3 years ago?

 

[Gus Mahler]

easttexastrash said: "You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet".

Well ET, it's time for Carnac to share some background information (experience). I played 4 years of college basketball in the early '70's in the sooner state. I'm 6'9". I played center. This was before 1,2,3,4,5 positions. Nike's were still a dream. We wore Chuck Taylor "All Stars" the first 2 years. This was before the 3 pt. arc was incorporated into the game (1986-1987 season) This was also during the time "dunking" was not allowed in men's college basketball.

I was a leaper. I had "hops". I led our team in rebounds every year. There's an art to rebounding. I also had a nose for the ball (like Dennis Rodman). I could tell where the ball was coming off the rim before it hit. I wore/wear size 16's. I could not keep up with the guards, but I could keep up with the forwards and the opposing center. I averaged 12-14 rebounds a game. I could stand flat-footed under the basket palming a ball in each hand, jump up and dunk both of them. Only one other guy on the team could do that. When I look up at the baskets now, they look a lot higher up than they did 45 years ago.

I said all of that to say: I have literally already walked a mile in Brittany's shoes. I know what I'm talking about. Believe me, I know how rough and physical it can be under the boards. She can do better in the rebounding department. She's always the tallest player on the floor. No excuses. I still maintain she should grab at least 10 rebounds a game. Players that pride themselves in being a good rebounder usually are. I was. My coach didn't need me to score. He said he had 4 other guys that could put the ball in the basket. All he needed me to do was REBOUND and block shots. THAT's what I did (I needed to keep my scholarship).

Six-nine? Without the turban? Wow. [couldn't resist]

 

[Carnac]

Six-nine? Without the turban? Wow. [couldn't resist]

With the turban, I'm way over 7 feet. That's how I roll Gus.

 

[easttexastrash]

Didn't BG train with Kareem 2-3 years ago?

No, Kareem showed up to one of BG's practices and showed her how to shoot the sky hook, which she tried in a game or two and then abandoned.

 

[easttexastrash]

ET - No, I'm not a female wearing a men's 17. Yes, I am comparing myself to her in that we are both about the same height. My reply was to your statement: "You put on a size 17 men's shoe and see how quickly you can move your feet".
THAT's the comment I was replying to, though I admit I got a bit carried away. All I'm saying is that like Griner, I'm tall and I had/have BIG feet, and I moved them pretty good back then. If you or anyone else is not our height or can wear our shoes, then you can only guess what it's like to be this tall or traverse a basketball court. I've been this tall/had these feet since I was 18. That was a long time ago. I must admit, these BIG feet have served me well. I take care of them, they take care of me. It's a beautiful relationship.

Sometimes I'll comment on something that I have no personal experience about, or on a position I've arrived at because of information I've received through other sources. This is not one of those times. I know personally what it's like. I'm not guessing or wondering here. I know from experience. She's playing in her element (women), I played in mine (men). I not talking men vs women. I was not always the tallest player on the floor. I played against a few guys that were taller and heavier than I was, she hasn't. I know what it's like to look up to a guy that has 4 inches on you, and out weighs you by at least 40 pounds that your coach expects you to stop, or at least show down. I don't believe she's ever faced an opponent that was taller than her. She was the tallest women in Division 1 WCBB during her time at Baylor, and I don't believe there were any 6'10" players in the WNBA upon her arrival, or since.

We are in total agreement with context of your second paragraph, especially the Nina Davis reference. I like Nina. If you remember at the end of her freshmen year. I posted that I was impressed with 3 freshmen that year. Davis, Brianna Turner (Notre Dame) and Tyler Scaife (Rutgers). I also predicted that Turner would be an All-American by the end of her junior year. I was right. She did it a year earlier than I thought she would. I'm also pretty sure all three will be drafted by the WNBA. Turner will be a first rounder for sure. Davis and Scaife, I don't know when they'll go. Later.

You were obviously a superior athlete than Griner. As well as you moved your big feet, BG does not possess the same nimble footedness. As I have said, BG can become a better rebounder but for those who think she should dominate the boards, keep waiting because it's not going to happen.

I could list several things that I think would improve BG's rebounding numbers by at least 3 or 4 a game. And they seem so simple that I don't know why some coach is not correcting her habits. Surely one of her coaches would work with her on her rebounding skills and challenge her to increase her numbers. Maybe Geno will work with her during the Olympics.

 

[Carnac]

You were obviously a superior athlete than Griner. As well as you moved your big feet, BG does not possess the same nimble footedness. As I have said, BG can become a better rebounder but for those who think she should dominate the boards, keep waiting because it's not going to happen.

I could list several things that I think would improve BG's rebounding numbers by at least 3 or 4 a game. And they seem so simple that I don't know why some coach is not correcting her habits. Surely one of her coaches would work with her on her rebounding skills and challenge her to increase her numbers. Maybe Geno will work with her during the Olympics.

I agree with iri10's take on BG's mental approach. He capsulized what I've been trying to say. I never questioned BG's athleticism, I questioned her mental approach.
I said: " Please explain something to me.......Nenka Ogwumike at 6'2" is averaging 8.8 rpg. Britanny Griner at 6'8' is averaging only 6.7 rpg. BG is SIX INCHES TALLER than Ogwumike, yet Nneka is out rebounding her.
How is this possible? Imagine for a moment if Nneka was 6"8, what kind of numbers she would be putting up then. It appears that Nneka is outworking BG, and has more of a will to win. Nneka brings her lunch pale and hard hat to work every night!. She continues to play like a #1 draft pick". It appears that Nneka is outworking BG,.....and has more of a will to win. That's mental. It's all between the ears. Nneka has always been a good rebounder. She carried that skill set over to the WNBA from college. No doubt she takes pride in being a better than average rebounder. Basically we're on the same page, just not on the same paragraph. I'm just suggesting that BG could use a little more "Tiger in her tank". BG should not let a player that is physically inferior to her, out work her. THAT is the jest of my original take. As I've said many times, I liked BG at Baylor, I still do.

 

[HuskyNan]

Tiffany Hayes has turned into a great pro player. She is the biggest surprise to me of all the UCONN grads as she has turned into a go-to player for Atlanta, often outplaying Angel.

Tiff benefits from all the attention the defenses give Angel (an unofficial Husky, as voted by Boneyard in 2012).

 

[JoePgh]

Nneka should have been on the 2016 US Olympic team. I haven't memorized the team roster so I don't know who I would kick off to accommodate her, but the team will miss her hustle and athleticism at both ends of the court.

 

[easttexastrash]

Nneka should have been on the 2016 US Olympic team. I haven't memorized the team roster so I don't know who I would kick off to accommodate her, but the team will miss her hustle and athleticism at both ends of the court.

Agreed 100%. She is having an MVP year in the WNBA. I hate to speculate who should have been left out in favor or her, but she is playing better than quite of few of the players who made the team.

 

[easttexastrash]

I agree with iri10's take on BG's mental approach. He capsulized what I've been trying to say. I never questioned BG's athleticism, I questioned her mental approach.
I said: " Please explain something to me..Nenka Ogwumike at 6'2" is averaging 8.8 rpg. Britanny Griner at 6'8' is averaging only 6.7 rpg. BG is SIX INCHES TALLER than Ogwumike, yet Nneka is out rebounding her.
How is this possible? Imagine for a moment if Nneka was 6"8, what kind of numbers she would be putting up then. It appears that Nneka is outworking BG, and has more of a will to win. Nneka brings her lunch pale and hard hat to work every night!. She continues to play like a #1 draft pick". It appears that Nneka is outworking BG,.....and has more of a will to win. That's mental. It's all between the ears. Nneka has always been a good rebounder. She carried that skill set over to the WNBA from college. No doubt she takes pride in being a better than average rebounder. Basically we're on the same page, just not on the same paragraph. I'm just suggesting that BG could use a little more "Tiger in her tank". BG should not let a player that is physically inferior to her, out work her. THAT is the jest of my original take. As I've said many times, I liked BG at Baylor, I still do.

BG has been treated as a third or fourth option ever since she has been at Phoenix and that is how she performs. I blame the coaching for not expecting and demanding more of her. IMO, BG performs up to the expectations that are set for her and someone is not challenging her to rebound nor is anyone working with her on her technique, based on what I can see. BG is not a self starter like a lot of players and she is too happy to allow others too take the lead role, which I would like to see change.