Was the 08-09 team the last powerhouse we'll see?

[BUConn10]

If Jalen leaves (really the only question barring transfers), they are .

That's the problem with underperforming year after year, guys get frustrated and just want to move on as soon as possible (DHam), guys won't take a chance to return to a dysfunctional team. One of the reasons KOs seat is gonna start getting warm next year if clear change doesn't occur. We won't be able to get any talent accumulated with seasons like 2015-17.

 

[upstater]

Someone made the comparison yesterday, but the foundation of that 2008-09 team starting during that horrid 2006-07 season.

While it's not a perfect comparison (06-07 was literally all freshmen and sophomores), I do think that's the roadmap the current squad should be following. If things break right, they should be ranked for most or all of next year, and then potentially be in position for a deep run the year after there.

Obviously so much depends on who stays and leaves early, as well as how certain guys develop, but the situatios have some similarity.

It's a different era.

Kids are leaving much quicker these days. I know only 8 years have passed.

But Jalen's year is next year. If he improves like he should, he will leave.

If it weren't for sanctions and questions about Napier's athleticism, he could have left after his junior year as well. Napier had a very good junior year.

 

[Matrim55]

There was a time, not long ago, when UConn basketball dominated games, beat the crap out of talented opponents, maintained a top 10 (if not top 5) ranking, and guaranteed themselves high at-large seeds in the tournament. A time when scoring 49 points in a game was unimaginable.

For the record: The 2007 team that comprised the heart of that 2009 squad (Thabeet, Price, Adrien, Stanley, Dyson, Gavin) had losses in which they scored 49 points, 54 points (twice), 52, and 46 points. They started the year 11-0 and finished it 6-14, and were one of just two UConn teams under Calhoun to fail to make the NCAAs or NIT.

The 2010 team, which had 3 of the guys above, plus Kemba and plus Oriakhi -- a 5-star recruit -- had losses in which they scored 48, 50 & 52 points. They started the year 11-3 and finished it 7-13.

I think folks have a way of blocking out the bad years under Calhoun. I suppose we'll do the same for Ollie one day.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Regarding the original question, short answer is no.
But I think it will be two more years, not next year, when you might see a more dominant squad. Next year will have talent, but it'll be talent that hasn't played together at all.

Now, if you want to judge next year, judge them comparing how they start the season vs how they finish it.

 

[UConn990411]

For the record: The 2007 team that comprised the heart of that 2009 squad (Thabeet, Price, Adrien, Stanley, Dyson, Gavin) had losses in which they scored 49 points, 54 points (twice), 52, and 46 points. They started the year 11-0 and finished it 6-14, and were one of just two UConn teams under Calhoun to fail to make the NCAAs or NIT.

The 2010 team, which had 3 of the guys above, plus Kemba and plus Oriakhi -- a 5-star recruit -- had losses in which they scored 48, 50 & 52 points. They started the year 11-3 and finished it 7-13.

I think folks have a way of blocking out the bad years under Calhoun. I suppose we'll do the same for Ollie one day.

Here's the key - Calhoun's teams were always significantly better the year after a down season.

We'll find out next year if Ollie is able to continue that trend.

 

[Matrim55]

Here's the key - Calhoun's teams were always significantly better the year after a down season.

We'll find out next year if Ollie is able to continue that trend.

True-ish, though I think we all felt, at the time, that the 91/92 season was definitely a down year relative to expectations, and 92/93 was definitely a step backward from that.

I think we tend to gloss over how up-and-down his first 7 years really were. Our improvement was hardly linear, and guys like Smitty & Burrell didn't develop as expected.

 

[NielsisGood]

It's on the defensive side that I like them. I like Kemba more than AJ Price. But I think Thabeet and Adrien on offense would be powerless against Oriakhi and Roscoe Smith.

At the end of the day, I just like Kemba and Lamb on offense more than AJ Price and Dyson. That is what I base my comment on. Kemba especially was better than all of the players we are talking about. He is up there with Rip and Emeka as an all-time top 5 Husky. Can't say that about anyone from 2009.

If you ranked all the players from both teams, Kemba would be #1 for sure, but the 09 team has the next 4-5 best guys.

 

[NielsisGood]

Also the pieces should be in place to win 25ish total games next year. That's the over/under I'm looking at on whether I'd consider next year a big step in the right direction, or just babysteps.

 

[metsfan2323]

Of course we can get back to being a dominant team, the real question is can Ollie do it.

If Wichita State, Butler, Creighton, Xavier, Villanova, Gonzaga and Dayton can produce dominant teams then so can UCONN.

And spare me the "we can't do it in the AAC" argument. Cincinnati hasn't regressed one bit in the AAC. We should be dominating this league and raising the tide of all the schools in the league with us.

 

[upstater]

If you ranked all the players from both teams, Kemba would be #1 for sure, but the 09 team has the next 4-5 best guys.

I'd like to see that ranking.

AJ was probably second, but Lamb was just as good as Stanley Robinson if not better.

The huge X factor of course is Thabeet. He would have absolutely changed the game for 09's advantage, but I would point out that Oriakhi and Roscoe Smith obliterated people on D and somehow had as great an impact as Thabeet did.

 

[upstater]

Of course we can get back to being a dominant team, the real question is can Ollie do it.

If Wichita State, Butler, Creighton, Xavier, Villanova, Gonzaga and Dayton can produce dominant teams then so can UCONN.

And spare me the "we can't do it in the AAC" argument. Cincinnati hasn't regressed one bit in the AAC. We should be dominating this league and raising the tide of all the schools in the league with us.

None of those schools except Villanova and maybe Gonzaga this year were dominant.

We are taking this back to 2009 level dominance, right? Because none of those schools have achieved that.

 

[Paesano]

No, wrong. Tulsa got in. They had a worse record and went out in the first round.

Maybe so but that is, and always has been, a misleading statement. It may be true that we didn't need to win that game but it is also true that we went into the AAC tournament on the bubble. If games around the nation broke differently, and we didn't win the AAC tournament, we could have been out. Going into the conference tournanent, this conference especially, on the bubble, is pretty mediocre by UConn standards. In isolation, not a big deal. Sandwiched between two flat out bad seasons makes it a big deal. If we get another bad, or even mediocre, season next year, alarms will be screaming and rightfully so. No more excuses next year. If it is like this year, or even like 2014/2015, I would lean toward making a coaching change. If it is like 2015/2016, there will be a very heated debate but he probably gets one more chance.

Has anyone considered the possibility that KO may just not be right emotionally after the divorce? A change might actually be good for him. A fresh start in a new place could get him back on track. And has anyone considered that his best place might not be as a head coach in college? He might be a better fit for an assistant or head coaching position in the NBA.

 

[upstater]

Maybe so but that is, and always has been, a misleading statement. It may be true that we didn't need to win that game but it is also true that we went into the AAC tournament on the bubble. If games around the nation broke differently, and we didn't win the AAC tournament, we could have been out. Going into the conference tournanent, this conference especially, on the bubble, is pretty mediocre by UConn standards. In isolation, not a big deal. Sandwiched between two flat out bad seasons makes it a big deal. If we get another bad, or even mediocre, season next year, alarms will be screaming and rightfully so. No more excuses next year. If it is like this year, or even like 2014/2015, I would lean toward making a coaching change. If it is like 2015/2016, there will be a very heated debate but he probably gets one more chance.

Has anyone considered the possibility that KO may just not be right emotionally after the divorce? A change might actually be good for him. A fresh start in a new place could get him back on track. And has anyone considered that his best place might not be as a head coach in college? He might be a better fit for an assistant or head coaching position in the NBA.

I couldn't disagree with this more. No way.

I'll say it again. Tulsa lost in its first game, had a worse record than UConn had before the tournament. You're actually talking about the championship game here. I am saying UConn would have been in if it lost its FIRST game. You guys are way out in left field on this.

 

[Paesano]

I couldn't disagree with this more. No way.

I'll say it again. Tulsa lost in its first game, had a worse record than UConn had before the tournament. You're actually talking about the championship game here. I am saying UConn would have been in if it lost its FIRST game. You guys are way out in left field on this.

You are disagreeing with a strawman you built for convenience. I didn't say UConn wouldn't have made it had they lost. I said, going into the tournamemt, they were on the bubble. Tulsa made it because of how the other bubble teams performed and how all the games broke nation wide. We were not a lock going into that tournament. We were on the bubble, IN THE AAC. That is mediocre.

 

[blackbird]

If we are including Dyson in the 08/09 analysis, Kemba and the Freshmen have no chance in hell.

They were an excellent defensive team, and Kemba is Uconn's best player (although, I might argue AJP was more of a true point guard) but they aren't deep enough or mature enough to beat 08:09. Biggest problem is they wouldn't be able to score with that team.

Has to be Uconn's best team that never one a championship. (And have to wonder how good they would have been had AJP not torn his ACL the year before or Dyson not torn his MCl that year.)

 

[metsfan2323]

None of those schools except Villanova and maybe Gonzaga this year were dominant.

We are taking this back to 2009 level dominance, right? Because none of those schools have achieved that.

I don't have a gauge that tells me what "2009 level of dominance" means and neither do you. I'll provide something measurable:

Can we finish first in our league and end the regular season ranked in the top 1o.

Of course UCONN can do that. Will we do it with this coach? I have no idea. If Donny Marshall's comments last week were relayed directly from Ollie then the answer is we need a new coach. If Kevin has the attitude that he "didn't sign up for this" please show him the door. Benedict should actually ask him if that is how he feels because nothing good will happen with that attitude.

 

[mauconnfan]

If we are including Dyson in the 08/09 analysis, Kemba and the Freshmen have no chance in hell.

They were an excellent defensive team, and Kemba is Uconn's best player (although, I might argue AJP was more of a true point guard) but they aren't deep enough or mature enough to beat 08:09. Biggest problem is they wouldn't be able to score with that team.

Has to be Uconn's best team that never one a championship. (And have to wonder how good they would have been had AJP not torn his ACL the year before or Dyson not torn his MCl that year.)

UConns best team that never won a championship got beat by George Mason. Real close 2nd is 94-95 who was beaten by UCLA. This may be 3rd though. Jus one's opinion mind you.

 

[blackbird]

UConns best team that never won a championship got beat by George Mason. Real close 2nd is 94-95 who was beaten by UCLA. This may be 3rd though. Jus one's opinion mind you.

I would say that was the most talented team. I'm not sure they were mentally the best team. (I doubt 08/09 loses to George Mason), at least that's the difference for me.

Couldn't say with 94-95

 

[intlzncster]

Also the pieces should be in place to win 25ish total games next year. That's the over/under I'm looking at on whether I'd consider next year a big step in the right direction, or just babysteps.

The biggest impediment next year is Alterique's and Terry's injuries. Losing that year is huge for both of them, the former because he'll essentially be a freshman again, and the latter because he'll be 2 years removed from competitive hoops.

Yes, Vance and Vitale will be better for it, but Alterique and Terry are the better players, and much more significant in terms of what the team will do next year.

I'd feel fairly confident next year if AG and TA had not gotten hurt.

 

[Tenspro2002]

This was my fear 3-4 years ago, that wire-to-wire dominant seasons were getting further and further from reach.

The championship in 2014 was special, but over the last few years people have used it as an excuse to ignore what should have been serious concerns about the long term trajectory of the program.

If this year is like 2007, then the expectation next year should be an improving team that grows to be solidly Top 25 and a #5 seed or better, setting the stage for a vintage, dominant UConn team in 2018-19.

If over the next two years KO's teams continue to bumble along around the bubble (or worse) and far from national relevance, it's time to look in another direction.

 

[upstater]

You are disagreeing with a strawman you built for convenience. I didn't say UConn wouldn't have made it had they lost. I said, going into the tournamemt, they were on the bubble. Tulsa made it because of how the other bubble teams performed and how all the games broke nation wide. We were not a lock going into that tournament. We were on the bubble, IN THE AAC. That is mediocre.

We were a lock. That was my point. if we lost the first game, we were still in. People pointed this out repeatedly last year, BEFORE the tournament. Our RPI was very high. A loss in the first game would have put us in the low 30s. Absolute LOCK for the tournament.

 

[upstater]

This was my fear 3-4 years ago, that wire-to-wire dominant seasons were getting further and further from reach.

The championship in 2014 was special, but over the last few years people have used it as an excuse to ignore what should have been serious concerns about the long term trajectory of the program.

If this year is like 2007, then the expectation next year should be an improving team that grows to be solidly Top 25 and a #5 seed or better, setting the stage for a vintage, dominant UConn team in 2018-19.

If over the next two years KO's teams continue to bumble along around the bubble (or worse) and far from national relevance, it's time to look in another direction.

2014 and serious concerns? I mean, losing a long time HOF coach, the 2011 sanctions against the program, the 2013 APR tourney ban, and the losses of players who got to leave without losing a year of eligibility, compounded by dropping down to a lower conference, and 3 or 4 years of recruiting that didn't see a single top 50 player other than Omar Calhoun commit to UConn.

6 strikes against UConn that had nothing to do with KO--and in the face of this they won a national championship.

So, what were the serious concerns you saw?

 

[upstater]

I don't have a gauge that tells me what "2009 level of dominance" means and neither do you. I'll provide something measurable:

Can we finish first in our league and end the regular season ranked in the top 1o.

Of course UCONN can do that. Will we do it with this coach? I have no idea. If Donny Marshall's comments last week were relayed directly from Ollie then the answer is we need a new coach. If Kevin has the attitude that he "didn't sign up for this" please show him the door. Benedict should actually ask him if that is how he feels because nothing good will happen with that attitude.

Well, the original post said 30 wins.

 

[upstater]

I would say that was the most talented team. I'm not sure they were mentally the best team. (I doubt 08/09 loses to George Mason), at least that's the difference for me.

Couldn't say with 94-95

02 was really good too. Okafor came on as a youngster, and Caron might have been the best player in college basketball.

 

[Travelman6]

One could argue 2011 was powerhouse...well, okay, MAYBE NOT. But I will always prefer a 9-9 record in that conference, which was so stacked (2010-2011), over a 15-3 in the AAC in a year like this. For real. Or at the very least, that 9-9 in that conference is more impressive considering the teams than if uconn had somehow gone 15-3 this year.

In 2010-2011, Only 5 teams were under .500 in conference and seton hall was somewhat close. You had seven top 25 teams at the end of the year and one could argue cincy could have easily been at least close to the top 25 as well as gtown.

Uconn may never have another powerhouse team, unless they somehow get out of the aac. But as they proved in 2011 and 2014, a team (not just uconn) does not always need to be powerhouse to make some noise when it matters most. Just like the cuse last year or some of those butler teams or gmason.