Vote UConn vs. LSU (Final Push)

[dennismenace]

Bob Petit was a player. Bob, Cliff Hagan and Clyde Lovellette were some trio for the old St. Louis Hawks NBA team.

Great childhood memories. Petit a very complete 6-9 inside/outside shooter and good rebounder. Challenged the Celitics in the time. Good times!

 

[kcc1442]

Agreed, we are a way better program and this starting 5 of ours has 3 NCAA titles between them. My only point is we only have one legendary player in Ray, LSU has three.

We have several fans arguing Kemba is the better/more legendary player than Maravich, that's not a great look. I know it's a Uconn board but that's some serious homer type stuff.

Come on down from that horse up there. You are right everyone is crazy, except you of course, for comparing Kemba to Pistol. I've already stated that there is no way Pistol would beat Kemba in their primes and you haven't rebuked that. But you are still going off about how crazy their impacts on the game are. So let me get this straight, a guy who is in the "Huskies of Honor" (which you dub a much better program than LSU), a guy who single handedly orchestrated an unprecedented 11 straight "win or go-home" win streak to capture a big east championship, big east MVP, a National Championship and NCAA tournament MOP, one who left all of us lucky people with the most scintillating indelible memory and indistinguishable nickname of Cardiac Kemba in the quarter finals of the BE against Pitt, Is NOT legendary?

A guy in Kemba who will almost assuredly have VERY similar numbers in RPG, APG, SPG, BPG to Pistol is NOT legendary but Pistol is without a doubt. A guy who will have a LONGER Career, score more points, grab more total rebounds, steals, assists and blocks against most DEFINITELY better and stronger defensive competition is NOT legendary, but Pistol is?

A guy who only falls short to Pistol in FG % (which at this rate he may catch him as he continues to improve 44% to 41%) and PPG and I dunno All star appearances (2 to 5 with plenty of time to spare). But you are right Pistol is legendary......and this guy below is not.....

 

[superjohn]

Come on down from that horse up there. You are right everyone is crazy, except you of course, for comparing Kemba to Pistol. I've already stated that there is no way Pistol would beat Kemba in their primes and you haven't rebuked that. But you are still going off about how crazy their impacts on the game are. So let me get this straight, a guy who is in the "Huskies of Honor" (which you dub a much better program than LSU), a guy who single handedly orchestrated an unprecedented 11 straight "win or go-home" win streak to capture a big east championship, big east MVP, a National Championship and NCAA tournament MOP, one who left all of us lucky people with the most scintillating indelible memory and indistinguishable nickname of Cardiac Kemba in the quarter finals of the BE against Pitt, Is NOT legendary?

A guy in Kemba who will almost assuredly have VERY similar numbers in RPG, APG, SPG, BPG to Pistol is NOT legendary but Pistol is without a doubt. A guy who will have a LONGER Career, score more points, grab more total rebounds, steals, assists and blocks against most DEFINITELY better and stronger defensive competition is NOT legendary, but Pistol is?

A guy who only falls short to Pistol in FG % (which at this rate he may catch him as he continues to improve 44% to 41%) and PPG and I dunno All star appearances (2 to 5 with plenty of time to spare). But you are right Pistol is legendary.and this guy below is not.....

Not going to waste my time arguing with you because this is beyond silly. I love Kemba but if you think he's as legendary a player as Maravich and that he's Hall of Fame bound I have to assume you're just a little kid. It's cute but outside of a UConn board you would get laughed at.

 

[pj]

Not going to waste my time arguing with you because this is beyond silly. I love Kemba but if you think he's as legendary a player as Maravich and that he's Hall of Fame bound I have to assume you're just a little kid. It's cute but outside of a UConn board you would get laughed at.

I didn't realize the NCAA competition was over who is "most legendary". If you believe it's who would win a head-to-head matchup in heaven, Kemba's got a shot.

 

[aburks41]

Kudos.



View attachment 33439

I've followed that kid for like a year on twitter, he always trolls people like that lmao. He's a die hard UConn fan hahaha

 

[superjohn]

I didn't realize the NCAA competition was over who is "most legendary". If you believe it's who would win a head-to-head matchup in heaven, Kemba's got a shot.

"Players and teams were selected and seeded by Andy Katz and the NCAA.com editorial team based on a combination of legendary status, on-court performance and career achievements."

 

[kcc1442]

Not going to waste my time arguing with you because this is beyond silly. I love Kemba but if you think he's as legendary a player as Maravich and that he's Hall of Fame bound I have to assume you're just a little kid. It's cute but outside of a UConn board you would get laughed at.

Ok...I'll give it a try........If you don't think Kemba belongs in the same "category"...ie comparable players...or at least is on the same trajectory.....>than, you're an old fart doushhh living in your glory days...

 

[SubbaBub]

Not going to waste my time arguing with you because this is beyond silly. I love Kemba but if you think he's as legendary a player as Maravich and that he's Hall of Fame bound I have to assume you're just a little kid. It's cute but outside of a UConn board you would get laughed at.

Pete is certain more legendary but it's not as big a gap as you think. Their shooting percentages are about the same. Pete was known for putting up high scoring games. That is a function of the era he played in more than anything else. In any objective contest of starting 5's, UConn, Duke, Kansas, UNC, and UCLA are the only programs under serious consideration. LSU is as likely a choice as the San Francisco Dons or whatever school Stef Curry played for. I'm not even sure Duke makes the final 4 unless you are taking full 4 year college careers only. Ray, Rip, Oak, Yell, and Kemba were all College POY finalists, lottery picks and dominant at their positions in college. And they all won, a lot.

If it is about playing actual games with them at their college best, I'll take our guys against anyone.

 

[superjohn]

Ok...I'll give it a try...If you don't think Kemba belongs in the same "category"...ie comparable players...or at least is on the same trajectory.....>than, you're an old fart doushhh living in your glory days...

I'm 38.

Kemba- NCAA champion, 1st team all-American, Final 4 MOP, 2 time all-star.

Maravich- 2 time College basketball player of the year, leading scorer in NCAA every year he played, NCAA all-time leading scorer (done in 3 seasons with no shot clock and no 3 point line), 2 time all NBA first team, 2 time all NBA second team, 5 time all-star, 1 time NBA scoring champ, selected to NBA 50th Anniversary 50 all-time player team.

Maybe the most creative offensive talent in the history of basketball (was doing things back then that we still haven't seen from players today) and he did it all with only 1 chamber of his heart working.

 

[Waquoit]

Bob Petit was a player. Bob, Cliff Hagan and Clyde Lovellette were some trio for the old St. Louis Hawks NBA team.

There's only one Clyde in pro hoops.

 

[kcc1442]

I'm 38.

Kemba- NCAA champion, 1st team all-American, Final 4 MOP, 2 time all-star.

Maravich- 2 time College basketball player of the year, leading scorer in NCAA every year he played, NCAA all-time leading scorer (done in 3 seasons with no shot clock and no 3 point line), 2 time all NBA first team, 2 time all NBA second team, 5 time all-star, 1 time NBA scoring champ, selected to NBA 50th Anniversary 50 all-time player team.

Maybe the most creative offensive talent in the history of basketball (was doing things back then that we still haven't seen from players today) and he did it all with only 1 chamber of his heart working.

We see differently clearly. I see the factors that resulted in him being the all-time leading scorer in NCAA. The fact he played on terrible teams and was given the right to shoot 38 (!) shots per game despite only shooting 43% from the field. Those numbers make a highly criticized freshman Trae Young blush. So good for him. He compiled a lot of points but shot an average to below average FG% on crappy teams against sub par (for todays standards) defense. His teams NEVER won anything of significance whatsoever. Meaning he never was good enough to elevate the other players on his team as Kemba clearly did winning a national championship. The fact that you don't see how Kemba could be considered just as legendary especially given that he still has probably another 7 years left in his career is baffling to the say the least. The idea that your pretentiousness can't allow them to even be compared is frankly just idiotic.

I'm not saying Pistol wasn't a great player. He was. Revolutionary too. He changed the game in many ways. But Kemba plays against dozens of guys that are quicker, faster, and more explosive than Pistol or any of the guys defending him were.

 

[superjohn]

We see differently clearly. I see the factors that resulted in him being the all-time leading scorer in NCAA. The fact he played on terrible teams and was given the right to shoot 38 (!) shots per game despite only shooting 43% from the field. Those numbers make a highly criticized freshman Trae Young blush. So good for him. He compiled a lot of points but shot an average to below average FG% on crappy teams against sub par (for todays standards) defense. His teams NEVER won anything of significance whatsoever. Meaning he never was good enough to elevate the other players on his team as Kemba clearly did winning a national championship. The fact that you don't see how Kemba could be considered just as legendary especially given that he still has probably another 7 years left in his career is baffling to the say the least. The idea that your pretentiousness can't allow them to even be compared is frankly just idiotic.

I'm not saying Pistol wasn't a great player. He was. Revolutionary too. He changed the game in many ways. But Kemba plays against dozens of guys that are quicker, faster, and more explosive than Pistol or any of the guys defending him were.

I get that it's a UConn board but wow. We all love Kemba but take the homer glasses off just for a second and realize you take this anywhere other than a UConn message board and you would get laughed at. As for the guys being stronger and quicker today. You do realize players from then would have the same weight training and diet as the players today, right? By your logic no players from previous generations could hang with the players today. Kareem, Russell, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Oscar, Dr. J, West, Gervin, Tiny Archibald. They were all great for their time but couldn't hang with Kemba.

As for winning, Shabazz won two so he must be better than Kemba and way better than Maravich, Stockton, Barkley, CP3, The Mailman, Gervin etc.

As you point out, Maravich helped revolutionize the game. Kemba is a very good player but we all know he hasn't done anything that players before him already did.

Now I have some questions. What skills do you think Kemba is better at in basketball than Maravich? Do you ever think Kemba will lead the league in scoring? Do you think Kemba will make any first team all-NBA teams in his career? Do you think he will make any all NBA second teams in his career? Do you think Kemba will be a Hall of Famer? Do you think Kemba will ever be on any top 50 all-time NBA player lists?

 

[Balker]

I get that it's a UConn board but wow. We all love Kemba but take the homer glasses off just for a second and realize you take this anywhere other than a UConn message board and you would get laughed at. As for the guys being stronger and quicker today. You do realize players from then would have the same weight training and diet as the players today, right? By your logic no players from previous generations could hang with the players today. Kareem, Russell, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Oscar, Dr. J, West, Gervin, Tiny Archibald. They were all great for their time but couldn't hang with Kemba.

As for winning, Shabazz won two so he must be better than Kemba and way better than Maravich, Stockton, Barkley, CP3, The Mailman, Gervin etc.

As you point out, Maravich helped revolutionize the game. Kemba is a very good player but we all know he hasn't done anything that players before him already did.

Now I have some questions. What skills do you think Kemba is better at in basketball than Maravich? Do you ever think Kemba will lead the league in scoring? Do you think Kemba will make any first team all-NBA teams in his career? Do you think he will make any all NBA second teams in his career? Do you think Kemba will be a Hall of Famer? Do you think Kemba will ever be on any top 50 all-time NBA player lists?

Just feel compelled to say I’m with the other guy. Throw Kemba in a time machine and send him to LSU in Pete’s era and he is a better player. Historical significance, sure. But this is like when an old white dude says he went to Princeton in 1954 and thinks it’s the same as getting in to it now. The world is far more competitive than it used to be. It’s not just white Americans now... That applies to basketball the same as everything else.

 

[kcc1442]

I get that it's a UConn board but wow. We all love Kemba but take the homer glasses off just for a second and realize you take this anywhere other than a UConn message board and you would get laughed at. As for the guys being stronger and quicker today. You do realize players from then would have the same weight training and diet as the players today, right? By your logic no players from previous generations could hang with the players today. Kareem, Russell, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Oscar, Dr. J, West, Gervin, Tiny Archibald. They were all great for their time but couldn't hang with Kemba.

As for winning, Shabazz won two so he must be better than Kemba and way better than Maravich, Stockton, Barkley, CP3, The Mailman, Gervin etc.

As you point out, Maravich helped revolutionize the game. Kemba is a very good player but we all know he hasn't done anything that players before him already did. (How are you a UConn fan?)

Now I have some questions. What skills do you think Kemba is better at in basketball than Maravich? Do you ever think Kemba will lead the league in scoring? Do you think Kemba will make any first team all-NBA teams in his career? Do you think he will make any all NBA second teams in his career? Do you think Kemba will be a Hall of Famer? Do you think Kemba will ever be on any top 50 all-time NBA player lists?

So I wanted to get some kind of data for you to help explain. But when I put into the search engine: What would Kemba's stats be if he was allowed to shoot 38 shots per game it couldn't compute. Sorry. You are totally disregarding the allowances and leash Pistol was given, especially in college. As far as NBA stats go Kemba Averaged 22 last year. Taking 11 less shots per game than Pistol did in his ONLY season that he won the scoring title. So to your Scoring leader question: if Kemba had the freedom to shoot 28 shots per game, 11 more than he did last year, would he have been the scoring leader over Harden at 30.5. I think you can answer that one.

As for some of your other questions.

As for that NBA 50th anniversary team, that was in 1996. Pistol wouldn't have a chance of making a Top 50 22 years later.

Skill question: Kemba has Pistol matched or beat in almost every skill category. He lacks his length but more than makes up for it in speed, quickness, explosiveness, strength. His IQ and creativeness are equal or better. His perimeter jumper is probably now better than Pistols, however in Pistols defense it didn't make sense to expand his jumper in a non 3 ball era.

The answers to the All NBA questions are unknown. If he gets traded to a successful franchise (Please let it happen!) for the next 7-9 years I could see him leading a team, upping his Assists and having more room with shooters around him to get better looks, then maybe. But 1st team is probably not likely. He unfortunately has some historically great PG's/Gs in his era, from CP3, Westbrook, Harden, Lilliard, Steph, Kyrie, Wall, DeRozan, Lowry, Parker all extremely great PGs, probably at the very least 6 HOFs, all on highly successful teams (which matters to voters). But there is an outside shot of getting a second or third team all NBA by continually dragging an abysmal Charlotte team to the playoffs as he has done before on his back. So those All-NBA questions that you raise are debatable. Unless of course Big Mike decides he gets to shoot nearly 30 SHOTS PER GAME! Because then he will be on the ALL NBA first team for the next 7-9 years...

Oh, and to your point of Kemba not doing anything players haven't done before, Name one other player who lead their team to two championships on an 11 straight postseason single elimination games, while also collecting to MVP awards??? Certainly not your boy Pistol.....He didn't win very much.

 

[superjohn]

So I wanted to get some kind of data for you to help explain. But when I put into the search engine: What would Kemba's stats be if he was allowed to shoot 38 shots per game it couldn't compute. Sorry. You are totally disregarding the allowances and leash Pistol was given, especially in college. As far as NBA stats go Kemba Averaged 22 last year. Taking 11 less shots per game than Pistol did in his ONLY season that he won the scoring title. So to your Scoring leader question: if Kemba had the freedom to shoot 28 shots per game, 11 more than he did last year, would he have been the scoring leader over Harden at 30.5. I think you can answer that one.

As for some of your other questions.

As for that NBA 50th anniversary team, that was in 1996. Pistol wouldn't have a chance of making a Top 50 22 years later.

Skill question: Kemba has Pistol matched or beat in almost every skill category. He lacks his length but more than makes up for it in speed, quickness, explosiveness, strength. His IQ and creativeness are equal or better. His perimeter jumper is probably now better than Pistols, however in Pistols defense it didn't make sense to expand his jumper in a non 3 ball era.

The answers to the All NBA questions are unknown. If he gets traded to a successful franchise (Please let it happen!) for the next 7-9 years I could see him leading a team, upping his Assists and having more room with shooters around him to get better looks, then maybe. But 1st team is probably not likely. He unfortunately has some historically great PG's/Gs in his era, from CP3, Westbrook, Harden, Lilliard, Steph, Kyrie, Wall, DeRozan, Lowry, Parker all extremely great PGs, probably at the very least 6 HOFs, all on highly successful teams (which matters to voters). But there is an outside shot of getting a second or third team all NBA by continually dragging an abysmal Charlotte team to the playoffs as he has done before on his back. So those All-NBA questions that you raise are debatable. Unless of course Big Mike decides he gets to shoot nearly 30 SHOTS PER GAME! Because then he will be on the ALL NBA first team for the next 7-9 years...

Oh, and to your point of Kemba not doing anything players haven't done before, Name one other player who lead their team to two championships on an 11 straight postseason single elimination games, while also collecting to MVP awards??? Certainly not your boy Pistol.....He didn't win very much.

You're not doing well here.

Funny you keep bringing up Maravich's fg % as if it somehow sucks when it's always been better than Kemba's while always destroying Kemba in scoring.

Kemba- career college fg % .428. 16.1 ppg
Maravich- career college fg% .438. 44.2 ppg

Kemba- career nba fg % .415. 18.9 ppg
Maravich- career fg % .441. 24.2 ppg

Saying Kemba has Pistol matched or beat in every skill category is seriously one of the most insane basketball observations I've ever heard.

You know what I meant when I said Kemba didn't do anything that hasn't been done before. Kemba is a very good/great player but plays a standard point guard game using quickness and change of pace. Maravich did things on the court nobody had ever seen before at the time and haven't seen since. You should look him up one of these days.

 

[pj]

You're not doing well here.

Funny you keep bringing up Maravich's fg % as if it somehow sucks when it's always been better than Kemba's while always destroying Kemba in scoring.

Kemba- career college fg % .428. 16.1 ppg
Maravich- career college fg% .438. 44.2 ppg

Kemba- career nba fg % .415. 18.9 ppg
Maravich- career fg % .441. 24.2 ppg

Saying Kemba has Pistol matched or beat in every skill category is seriously one of the most insane basketball observations I've ever heard.

You know what I meant when I said Kemba didn't do anything that hasn't been done before. Kemba is a very good/great player but plays a standard point guard game using quickness and change of pace. Maravich did things on the court nobody had ever seen before at the time and haven't seen since. You should look him up one of these days.

Both Kemba and Maravich are excellent shooters whose efficiency is/was harmed by being on poor teams. But you could argue Kemba is plausibly a better shooter. A few aspects of this:

• Kemba's career free throw % is 83.4% vs Pete's 82.0%. This is the one stat that is era-independent, so it speaks heavily to shooting skill.
• The addition of the 3 point line means that players take more shots far from the basket -- 3 pointers are more than 1/3 of Kemba's shots, and his career 3 pt shooting % of 35.8% drags his overall average down. Kemba's career 2 pt % of .445 is actually slightly better than Pete's career 2 pt % of .441.
• When Maravich was in the NBA, league average FG% varied from .449 to .485, while during Kemba's time it varied from .448 to .460. So relative to league averages, give Kemba a bump of about 1% on his shooting. NBA League Averages | Basketball-Reference.com.
• In Maravich's time, about 70% of the players were white. Now white players are about 23%, and they are mostly bigs. There is more speed and athleticism in the NBA than there was in Maravich's time -- that translates to Kemba facing tougher defense than Pete did.

You can truly say that Maravich stood out against the players of his time more than Kemba stands out against his peers. But that may indicate the lack of depth in Maravich's time, more than any deficiency in Kemba.

Maravich was one of the most creative and entertaining players ever. But creativity doesn't necessarily translate into wins. Check out the article linked below by @Lynyrd, NBA legends recall 'Pistol' Pete Maravich's lasting imprint on the game. In Maravich's HORSE game against Ice Gervin, he was losing as long as they shot bank shots, because Gervin's shooting percentage was higher. But once Maravich got choice of shot -- sitting on the floor -- he was sure to win, because he could make crazy shots that Gervin had never practiced. I think in a head-to-head, Kemba against Pistol Pete, it would have been the same -- in actual shots that would be taken in an NBA game, Kemba would shoot better; in entertaining crazy shots, Pistol Pete would win hands down. If I had to have a player who could entertain fans and keep a game competitive going 1-on-5, I'd take Pistol Pete. But if I had to win a championship, I'd take Kemba.

It would have been something to see Maravich with the Globetrotters. Too bad he died young.

 

[kcc1442]

You're not doing well here.

Funny you keep bringing up Maravich's fg % as if it somehow sucks when it's always been better than Kemba's while always destroying Kemba in scoring.

Kemba- career college fg % .428. 16.1 ppg
Maravich- career college fg% .438. 44.2 ppg

Kemba- career nba fg % .415. 18.9 ppg
Maravich- career fg % .441. 24.2 ppg

Saying Kemba has Pistol matched or beat in every skill category is seriously one of the most insane basketball observations I've ever heard.

You know what I meant when I said Kemba didn't do anything that hasn't been done before. Kemba is a very good/great player but plays a standard point guard game using quickness and change of pace. Maravich did things on the court nobody had ever seen before at the time and haven't seen since. You should look him up one of these days.

I'm not doing well???? haha....you brought nothingness to this post....You said nothing new and side stepped all my points about Pistol having freedom to take ungodly #'s of shots whenever he wants due to strategy/selfishness/or just playing on terrible teams, playing in an era with far inferior defense, not winning anything of note, having extremely if not almost identical stats per game averages in almost every category except ppg and fg%. The only one you mentioned was the skill debate which you didn't elaborate one iota into why you honestly think Pistols skills are better than Kembas. And I would guarantee you are in the minority with that one. I'd love to see you go out there and tell people in any forum that Pistol is the better ball handler, better passer, better shooter, better defender.......Thats laughable. You should just quit now...seriously give it a rest.

Lastly, just the fact that you are still debating means you absolutely know that there is a debate. The players are comparable. Which was my whole point anyway. Not to trash on Pistol, cause I got nothing against him. But seriously now, sit the next couple of plays out.

 

[superjohn]

I'm not doing well???? haha....you brought nothingness to this post....You said nothing new and side stepped all my points about Pistol having freedom to take ungodly #'s of shots whenever he wants due to strategy/selfishness/or just playing on terrible teams, playing in an era with far inferior defense, not winning anything of note, having extremely if not almost identical stats per game averages in almost every category except ppg and fg%. The only one you mentioned was the skill debate which you didn't elaborate one iota into why you honestly think Pistols skills are better than Kembas. And I would guarantee you are in the minority with that one. I'd love to see you go out there and tell people in any forum that Pistol is the better ball handler, better passer, better shooter, better defender..Thats laughable. You should just quit now...seriously give it a rest.

Lastly, just the fact that you are still debating means you absolutely know that there is a debate. The players are comparable. Which was my whole point anyway. Not to trash on Pistol, cause I got nothing against him. But seriously now, sit the next couple of plays out.

Gee, I don't know because Pistol is one of the most offensively skilled players to ever pick up a basketball. Maybe we'll meet up and talk about it in Springfield at Kemba's Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

 

[Lynyrd]

 

[Lynyrd]

NBA legends recall 'Pistol' Pete Maravich's lasting imprint on the game

 

[SubbaBub]

You're not doing well here.

Funny you keep bringing up Maravich's fg % as if it somehow sucks when it's always been better than Kemba's while always destroying Kemba in scoring.

Kemba- career college fg % .428. 16.1 ppg
Maravich- career college fg% .438. 44.2 ppg

Kemba- career nba fg % .415. 18.9 ppg
Maravich- career fg % .441. 24.2 ppg

Saying Kemba has Pistol matched or beat in every skill category is seriously one of the most insane basketball observations I've ever heard.

You know what I meant when I said Kemba didn't do anything that hasn't been done before. Kemba is a very good/great player but plays a standard point guard game using quickness and change of pace. Maravich did things on the court nobody had ever seen before at the time and haven't seen since. You should look him up one of these days.

These numbers are equivalent if you adjust for era. If Pete is taking more 3's or Kemba fewer because the rule does or does not exist, there is no significant difference. In college, 1 percent point of FG shooting is worth 28ppg? No, that has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with circumstance. They question is not who is a better fantasy player.

 

[FartMan69]

Someone is comparing Kemba to Pistol Pete? Are you insane? Kemba isnt even a top 5 PG in the current league.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

The elephant in the room questions concern the revolutionary qualities of floppy socks and whether Kemba's mom had more or less of an impact than Pete's dad. Otherwise, this is a great discussion. Keep it up.

 

[Mokum]

One question. How many shots per game did Pistol Pete take? I am old enough to remember him, I was just a kid, but I seem to remember him taking a shot everytime he got the ball. Could be wrong. As for the players of his era being in the same shape as players today, I doubt it. I remember an interview with someone from that era in the NBA saying guys would smoke cigarrettes during halftime. Don't ask me who, I don't remember. But the knowledge today regarding diet and training is light years ahead of the Pistol Pete days.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Guys all things old are better than all things not old. Gah