OT: Visiting Campus

[Chief00]

It is enormously valuable, just in more subtle ways. Philosophy teaches how to think. How to address abstract problems in concrete ways. It also teaches how to communicate abstract ideas in how to persuade people. English is incredibly valuable. It is stunning to me how often people are unable to communicate. I don’t care how good your ideas are, if you can’t communicate them effectively you weren’t going to be effective. (It’s a simple enough thing, but understanding the structure of a five paragraph essay, is a remarkably useful and under appreciated tool.)

History, and civics, provide a reference point for how the world works. Without an understanding of that people come to really dumb conclusions. I threw economics in this basket as well.

I still use my freshman year psych 101 class, almost daily. Understanding concepts like selective process perception, selective exposure and cognitive dissonance is a very useful tool.

I would try to touch on a little of this whenever my kids talked about how their courses were pointless. There is something to be learned in every discipline, and in every school of thought. It’s up to them as individuals to think how it applies, or could apply, to their life.

That said, college isn’t for everyone. And a very good friend of mine dropped out freshman year it is amazingly successful having developed and sold multiple businesses. (You’d recognize their names, but not his... And that is exactly how he likes it.) He’s also probably one of the nicest guys you ever want to meet. There are a lot of ways to find your path in life. You just need to be open to them.

Seeing opportunities and understanding learnings is key in life, as is the ability to think beyond what is spoon feed to all of us. All true.

 

[8893]

It’s a simple enough thing, but understanding the structure of a five paragraph essay, is a remarkably useful and under appreciated tool.

I was stunned to learn that the five-paragraph essay is no longer being taught in our high school.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well we are back home. Daughter found UConn too big, too sprawling. Too much like it’s own city.

My own thoughts are that while much of it is certainly a lot nicer and more updated it lacks the open space it once had. The student union is really nice now. The new sidewalks and brick are nice. But that whole area near the library, new rec center and new business school is too dense. It feels almost urban, a bit claustrophobic, which is a bizarre thing in Storrs. All of Hillside Road is too busy and overall they got rid of too many grassy areas. I understand why they did, to fit a growing school into the old footprint (KU did the opposite and lost some of the “campus“ feel), but I liked it better before.

The new Rec Center is a fiscal abomination. How about cutting tuition, leaving the old softball fields and encouraging a Planet Fitness to open over on Dog Lane.

 

[8893]

Well we are back home. Daughter found UConn too big, too sprawling. Too much like it’s own city.

My own thoughts are that while much of it is certainly a lot nicer and more updated it lacks the open space it once had. The student union is really nice now. The new sidewalks and brick are nice. But that whole area near the library, new rec center and new business school is too dense. It feels almost urban, a bit claustrophobic, which is a bizarre thing in Storrs. All of Hillside Road is too busy and overall they got rid of too many grassy areas. I understand why they did, to fit a growing school into the old footprint (KU did the opposite and lost some of the “campus“ feel), but I liked it better before.

The new Rec Center is a fiscal abomination. How about cutting tuition, leaving the old softball fields and encouraging a Planet Fitness to open over on Dog Lane.

What did you decide to do for lunch?

 

[HuskyHawk]

What did you decide to do for lunch?

as usual Daughter wanted to start for home so we ended up at Wilibrew. Food was good, my beer not so good. That put us on Rt. 6 home and the state of RI had shut down several miles of it. Power outages and trees down I think. Royal PITA.

She didn’t hate it. Liked the fact that it had a defined campus and liked the range of types of students and things to study or do. She just needs a place that’s a bit more cozy perhaps.

 

[Hoophound]

Well, her feelings on that are going to cost you 100-200k extra. Bad day for Pops.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well, her feelings on that are going to cost you 100-200k extra. Bad day for Pops.

Not really. In state would be UMass and I know she would hate that place. We don’t even plan to visit it. She might like UVM or UNH. Better shot of merit aid there than UConn.

 

[Hoophound]

Ah. I was thinking you were a CT resident. No big deal then.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So @8893 @HooperScooper @CL82 and anybody else. Have you found any truly valuable apps or online sites that help? I’ve been looking at Cappex and some others, but I don’t know how reliable they all are. Looking for info on which schools are strong in certain fields, overall environmen/profile, chances of getting in, chances of getting merit scholarships and so on. So many sites tell me the average net cost after financial aid but it’s a useless number for me.

 

[UConnRock]

Niche.com has been useful for me in evaluating/comparing schools. They have a nice breakdown where each school ranks in various categories including fields of study.

 

[Pudge]

For me ... it is just this Black & White. Though I don’t think I’d ever consider a small school. Elite or not.

“Absolutely and obviously that sense of community transcends sports. It was a cool experience basically living in a city of 20k kids your own age out in the woods for 4 years.”

or

find your way to a World Class City & really Dive into a full education experience. A USC or NYU or Georgetown. Individuality. Some are best in the woods.

 

[CL82]

Guidance had a decent app that we relied on quite a bit. I don’t remember the name though

 

[8893]

So @8893 @HooperScooper @CL82 and anybody else. Have you found any truly valuable apps or online sites that help? I’ve been looking at Cappex and some others, but I don’t know how reliable they all are. Looking for info on which schools are strong in certain fields, overall environmen/profile, chances of getting in, chances of getting merit scholarships and so on. So many sites tell me the average net cost after financial aid but it’s a useless number for me.

Niche.com has been useful for me in evaluating/comparing schools. They have a nice breakdown where each school ranks in various categories including fields of study.

Guidance had a decent app that we relied on quite a bit. I don’t remember the name though

@CL82 , I'm guessing it was Naviance? Our school has that and it can be useful because it takes your GPA and lets you know the rough odds of any school you're considering, as well as other helpful info.

The college counselor we hired gave us access to proprietary online software she licensed and that was definitely the most helpful for both researching the options and organizing and managing them. It took Naviance a few steps further by using the test scores as well and automatically coding each school into one of three (I think) categories that we would understand as safety, target and reach schools, based on the student data. It also had several links for each school to other websites like Niche and a half dozen others I don't recall at the moment, but it was good for quickly allowing anything from a scan to a deep dive of any school, and we kept a running list of options that we were considering, organized by preference. It also had the deadlines and requirements for each school.

Before hiring the counselor, I started with books, because that's what I grew up with and know best. I don't think Barron's is what it used to be, but I bought the latest editions of the guides from Princeton Review, Fiske and Peterson, as well as Colleges that Change Lives and one or two other books like that. I kept them in a pile next to my recliner and perused them often, and found each of them to be helpful in the process. It was also good to cross-reference them and see if the information was consistent.

I hear you about the futility of financial aid, but don't totally disregard that information because it is more than just need-based aid and it gives you a rough sense of the extent to which students are paying anything close to sticker price to attend a given school. It should also let you know how much of "need" certain schools meet, as well as which schools have "need blind" admission policies. Even if that information is not directly relevant to you, it often gives you a better sense of the mission of the school and the economic diversity it seeks to achieve. For example, a school like University of Richmond is need blind and also commits to meeting 100% of demonstrated need of any student admitted. That will tell you that you are more likely to have an economically diverse student body there; but imo it also suggests that you are less likely to receive merit aid and more likely to be subsidizing the need-based aid for others.

The US News & World Report lists are always worth a look, as are the Forbes lists of best values.

 

[HuskyHawk]

@CL82 , I'm guessing it was Naviance? Our school has that and it can be useful because it takes your GPA and lets you know the rough odds of any school you're considering, as well as other helpful info.

The college counselor we hired gave us access to proprietary online software she licensed and that was definitely the most helpful for both researching the options and organizing and managing them. It took Naviance a few steps further by using the test scores as well and automatically coding each school into one of three (I think) categories that we would understand as safety, target and reach schools, based on the student data. It also had several links for each school to other websites like Niche and a half dozen others I don't recall at the moment, but it was good for quickly allowing anything from a scan to a deep dive of any school, and we kept a running list of options that we were considering, organized by preference. It also had the deadlines and requirements for each school.

Before hiring the counselor, I started with books, because that's what I grew up with and know best. I don't think Barron's is what it used to be, but I bought the latest editions of the guides from Princeton Review, Fiske and Peterson, as well as Colleges that Change Lives and one or two other books like that. I kept them in a pile next to my recliner and perused them often, and found each of them to be helpful in the process. It was also good to cross-reference them and see if the information was consistent.

I hear you about the futility of financial aid, but don't totally disregard that information because it is more than just need-based aid and it gives you a rough sense of the extent to which students are paying anything close to sticker price to attend a given school. It should also let you know how much of "need" certain schools meet, as well as which schools have "need blind" admission policies. Even if that information is not directly relevant to you, it often gives you a better sense of the mission of the school and the economic diversity it seeks to achieve. For example, a school like University of Richmond is need blind and also commits to meeting 100% of demonstrated need of any student admitted. That will tell you that you are more likely to have an economically diverse student body there; but imo it also suggests that you are less likely to receive merit aid and more likely to be subsidizing the need-based aid for others.

The US News & World Report lists are always worth a look, as are the Forbes lists of best values.

Thanks. Ordered the Fiske guide. Wife will want a physical book. Got colleges that change lives on Kindle. Her school uses Naviance. Need to get more info from them on using it. I find Niche irritating. Maybe because they only talk about net cost as if no other information is needed.

So need blind could be unhelpful in my case. Interesting. I confess that while I have long worried about the competitive nature of this process, I think I still underestimated it. I think her desire to stay local is likely to present challenges. But you’ve all been helpful.

FYI, UConn tour guides were both good. Knowledgeable about many aspects of the school and admissions. Worked to connect with students and my UConn shirt certainly got a notice. Well spoken and they represented the university well. The tour was somewhat limited and confined mostly to the Hilltop road area, but I think it would be a stretch to spread much further.

 

[CL82]

Thanks. Ordered the Fiske guide. Wife will want a physical book. Got colleges that change lives on Kindle. Her school uses Naviance. Need to get more info from them on using it. I find Niche irritating. Maybe because they only talk about net cost as if no other information is needed.

So need blind could be unhelpful in my case. Interesting. I confess that while I have long worried about the competitive nature of this process, I think I still underestimated it. I think her desire to stay local is likely to present challenges. But you’ve all been helpful.

FYI, UConn tour guides were both good. Knowledgeable about many aspects of the school and admissions. Worked to connect with students and my UConn shirt certainly got a notice. Well spoken and they represented the university well. The tour was somewhat limited and confined mostly to the Hilltop road area, but I think it would be a stretch to spread much further.

What was your daughters initial reaction?

 

[8893]

Thanks. Ordered the Fiske guide. Wife will want a physical book. Got colleges that change lives on Kindle. Her school uses Naviance. Need to get more info from them on using it. I find Niche irritating. Maybe because they only talk about net cost as if no other information is needed.

So need blind could be unhelpful in my case. Interesting. I confess that while I have long worried about the competitive nature of this process, I think I still underestimated it. I think her desire to stay local is likely to present challenges. But you’ve all been helpful.

FYI, UConn tour guides were both good. Knowledgeable about many aspects of the school and admissions. Worked to connect with students and my UConn shirt certainly got a notice. Well spoken and they represented the university well. The tour was somewhat limited and confined mostly to the Hilltop road area, but I think it would be a stretch to spread much further.

Glad to hear the UConn tour guides were good. We know lots of local kids who are happy there.

Yes, her desire to stay local will likely make finding value, as well getting admitted to the top tier schools, a bigger challenge. Check out Marist, which has some interestingly different stats. It has a much lower sticker price than most of its comparators, and it has a lower acceptance rate than you might expect. That alone kept it in the running for our oldest, and I was impressed by the employment placement statistics. I thought they did one of the better jobs of knowing what they were and how to sell it to both students and parents. They do give merit aid, too. It’s a beautiful campus and has some really strong programs, and enough of a sports scene and school spirit to provide a pretty full college experience. Poughkeepsie itself is not a great draw, but I don’t think it’s as bad as some make it out to be, either. As with all the options, there are pros and cons and you need to weigh them.

Since she is looking at UNH, you might as well check out URI too. An academic year rental in South County would not suck.

The biggest challenge will be that you will try to solve it logically, but it’s a lot more of an art than a science, and emotion plays a bigger role than we want it to play no matter how much we say we are going to approach it logically.

 

[HooperScooper]

So @8893 @HooperScooper @CL82 and anybody else. Have you found any truly valuable apps or online sites that help? I’ve been looking at Cappex and some others, but I don’t know how reliable they all are. Looking for info on which schools are strong in certain fields, overall environmen/profile, chances of getting in, chances of getting merit scholarships and so on. So many sites tell me the average net cost after financial aid but it’s a useless number for me.

That's a broad question. You may want to pose those questions on the forums on the College Confidential web site. There are also forums there for a lot of the colleges (Colleges and Universities). Parents, prospective students and current students are on these forums so you get some good feedback.

Doesn't the on-line Princeton Review website rank colleges in many different categories? Never used it.

We use Naviance, obviously. We have 3 college search books: Fiske, Barron's and Princeton Review. They each have some basic merits.

Both of my sons wanted small liberal arts school within a 4-5 hour drive from home. So the search wasn't that difficult. Made the list based on academic profile that fit my sons, visited all the schools that were 4-5 hours away and just started making pros and cons lists for each school after we visited.

My overall feeling is that if you do the basic research and visits there's a 95%-100% chance your child will be happy wherever they end up going. I hate when people say there will be 1 school your child falls in love with and is the only one they'll be happy at. I guess that's like saying there is only 1 woman on earth that you will marry and be happy with.

 

[HuskyHawk]

What was your daughters initial reaction?

Hard to say. She wasn’t feeling great after the drive. See thought it was nice looking, well maintained and appreciated that it was well laid out as a traditional campus, if a big one. The info session was good.

Not sure there was much UConn could do to change the fact that she wants something smaller and more in a town. While, like @Pudge and @Guapo I loved the sense of community at UConn, I think she wants to be able to have that on a traditional campus and be able to leave it and be mixed in with other people when the mood strikes. It helped her narrow down where she’d be comfortable, so was a valuable visit.

Tufts was ideal in that regard, with Davis Square near and Boston via the T. Holy Cross was good too. Even Wesleyan. I suspect PC, UVM, UNH, BC would similarly appeal. BU visit coming up and I am curious. Expect she will find it swings too far towards urban with not much of a campus. But I could be wrong. May need to talk her into considering schools outside the region like College of Charleston, Wake Forest, St. Louis U etc.

 

[8893]

Hard to say. She wasn’t feeling great after the drive. See thought it was nice looking, well maintained and appreciated that it was well laid out as a traditional campus, if a big one. The info session was good.

Not sure there was much UConn could do to change the fact that she wants something smaller and more in a town. While, like @Pudge and @Guapo I loved the sense of community at UConn, I think she wants to be able to have that on a traditional campus and be able to leave it and be mixed in with other people when the mood strikes. It helped her narrow down where she’d be comfortable, so was a valuable visit.

Tufts was ideal in that regard, with Davis Square near and Boston via the T. Holy Cross was good too. Even Wesleyan. I suspect PC, UVM, UNH, BC would similarly appeal. BU visit coming up and I am curious. Expect she will find it swings too far towards urban with not much of a campus. But I could be wrong. May need to talk her into considering schools outside the region like College of Charleston, Wake Forest, St. Louis U etc.

Trinity might be one to look at.

 

[Guapo]

Hard to say. She wasn’t feeling great after the drive. See thought it was nice looking, well maintained and appreciated that it was well laid out as a traditional campus, if a big one. The info session was good.

Not sure there was much UConn could do to change the fact that she wants something smaller and more in a town. While, like @Pudge and @Guapo I loved the sense of community at UConn, I think she wants to be able to have that on a traditional campus and be able to leave it and be mixed in with other people when the mood strikes. It helped her narrow down where she’d be comfortable, so was a valuable visit.

Tufts was ideal in that regard, with Davis Square near and Boston via the T. Holy Cross was good too. Even Wesleyan. I suspect PC, UVM, UNH, BC would similarly appeal. BU visit coming up and I am curious. Expect she will find it swings too far towards urban with not much of a campus. But I could be wrong. May need to talk her into considering schools outside the region like College of Charleston, Wake Forest, St. Louis U etc.

FWIW living down here, I’ve never heard particularly good things about C of C.

Wake would definitely be a good one to check out along with Davidson, if you’re going down that way and want a smaller, private school.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Trinity might be one to look at.

Not sure I could condemn her to four years in Hartford. I recall the campus having attractive buildings the one time I went there to see Henry V. But the area did not appeal.

 

[dennismenace]

The elite schools and some a bit below the elite level offer little or no merit aid. The top schools are also very focused on diversity goals. That leaves a massive number of very smart kids to, for lack of a better term, filter down to the next level private, top liberal arts and top publics. There is lots of merit money being thrown around to get those top students that were not accepted at the elites.

Finding that balance between tuition/aid and prestige/reputation can be difficult. Disagreement between parents and students can get messy. students are told not to have your heart set on a favorite, but that is just not possible

This is nice to see. Costs are awfully high and job prospects better but still far from much security. I may have mentioned this before but if so, please forgive. My niece went to Naugatuck CC and got her RN; immediately got a job at Greater Hartford of New Britain for $60k . They paid for her advanced degree and now she is making $90k as an aprn with little debt burden. Unless there are real job opportunities the cost of college today can be daunting. Another surprise: two guys I know who had college degrees (marketing and the other education) and could not find work obtained jobs as construction supervisors at $70K at a large construction company. Company was looking for highly motivated young people and willing to train. Good exposure to upper management possibilities as well.

 

[8893]

Not sure I could condemn her to four years in Hartford. I recall the campus having attractive buildings the one time I went there to see Henry V. But the area did not appeal.

Yep. Tough area, and Hartford ain't Boston.

But there's a reason all the decent schools in the Boston area are so competitive and expensive: it's the best college city in the country.

Likewise, there's a reason UVM is the most expensive state school for out-of-state students: Burlington is the best college town in the country.

One of my favorite teachers in high school was a kind, wise old Jesuit who was like a cross between Socrates and Yogi Berra. He had all these sayings that could either mean everything or nothing, depending on how you took them. He always used to say "The most important thing about where you go to college... is Where. You. Go. To. College." I always took him to mean the location, and on that score I considered Storrs a failure.

I was just in Atlanta for work last week and was really impressed with how happening and young it seemed. Great public transport too. Good friends have a son at Emory and he loves it. Very competitive though.

I mentioned both Loyola and St. Joseph's before; they both fit that criteria of really nice campuses with easy access to a nice city. They are both good schools but less competitive than Emory and the top tier New England schools, which makes them more likely to woo her with merit aid; and those two in particular are known to compete with each other for many of the same students.

 

[CL82]

Hard to say. She wasn’t feeling great after the drive. See thought it was nice looking, well maintained and appreciated that it was well laid out as a traditional campus, if a big one. The info session was good.

Not sure there was much UConn could do to change the fact that she wants something smaller and more in a town. While, like @Pudge and @Guapo I loved the sense of community at UConn, I think she wants to be able to have that on a traditional campus and be able to leave it and be mixed in with other people when the mood strikes. It helped her narrow down where she’d be comfortable, so was a valuable visit.

Tufts was ideal in that regard, with Davis Square near and Boston via the T. Holy Cross was good too. Even Wesleyan. I suspect PC, UVM, UNH, BC would similarly appeal. BU visit coming up and I am curious. Expect she will find it swings too far towards urban with not much of a campus. But I could be wrong. May need to talk her into considering schools outside the region like College of Charleston, Wake Forest, St. Louis U etc.

At the end of the day it's her choice, as I am sure you emphasize with her. I'm glad she took a look at it, as I was with my own kids, neither of whom applied to UConn.

I love hearing what people think. I had a friend comeback from a visit. His take was that "it is what a college should look like" between the brick buildings and the paths and landscaping. It really made a impression on him.

 

[Bezzz]

Not sure I could condemn her to four years in Hartford. I recall the campus having attractive buildings the one time I went there to see Henry V. But the area did not appeal.

My daughter toured UConn which she hated, too big. She ended up at Trinity which she loved. It's on it's own oasis in Hartford, beautiful campus, great sports and student life. Everybody lives on or near campus so there is an active social scene. Some of my favorite life experiences was meeting her on campus to walk my dog and have everyone say hi to her.

They will give a boatload of financial need-based aid. It's hard to find the stat but they make up 100% of the difference between your EFC and actual cost.

Plus the student body (girls) was really attractive.