Villanova Post Game Thread | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Villanova Post Game Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
3,972
Reaction Score
13,891
Officials for the most part suck, that’s just a fact. They don’t suck for us more than others. The only bad call I remember on us that sticks out was the Adama 3. There isn’t an agenda against UConn.
That call against Adama was beyond awful as he jumped vertically and not towards Slater. Once Slater saw that he jumped towards Adama in an awkward fashion and created the contact looking for the bailout call which unfortunately he got-it really wasn't a "basketball" move looking to score he was just praying he would get a call as the shot clock wound down. It was so egregious that they wouldn't have called that in the NBA where up fakes are used all the time to draw fouls without the purpose of scoring even if the defender jumps slightly towards the offensive player.

And that was Adama's 2nd foul which caused him to sit the rest of the 8:30 mins of game time in the first half. I am sure UConn got some calls in their favor they shouldn't have. I watch Nova a lot and respect them a lot as they are smart fundamentally sound players and very rarely make a dumb play which is why I like watching them. But I can tell you they get away with a ton. A perfect example of this was last year in the nail biter at Providence when Gillespie was in the paint backing down Justin Minaya and struck Justin Minaya 3 straight times with a forearm shiver and then got the foul call in his favor and the AND-1. That was at the end of the game in a crucial situation, too.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
13,237
Reaction Score
71,996
I wanted to sleep on it before making this post.

Last night's game made me angry, not as a UConn fan, but as a basketball fan. I thought the Huskies played ok and ground out a decent, unremarkable win over an average Villanova team. The part that made me angry, and still has me angry the next day, was the absolutely horrible officiating. I don't think the officiating was particularly biased, it was just terrible. So terrible, that if I were the Big East I would not have those refs work a league game again until they prove they know the rules. They can call NEC or high school games if they want practice.

I think basketball is the greatest sport ever invented, but its Achilles Heel is officiating. Basketball is as dependent on good officiating as any sport, because, among other reasons, the officials can actually create scoring in basketball. Soccer is the only other major sport where that can happen. The officials make a dozen decisions every possession that impact the flow and often the outcome of the game. And when they are making consistently bad calls, they can make the game unwatchable, and at lower levels, unplayable. Last night was one of those games.

I do not advocate for officials letting them play or calling it tight. I simply want them to make the right call, and know the rules. When Villanova players are constantly flailing or fishing for fouls, the referees should either not call anything or call offensive fouls, because that is how the rules are written. Don't call some outdated foul off a flop during shooting when both the NBA and NCAA have specifically instructed officials not to reward players for doing that. Villanova, and to some extent UConn, were flopping all game. Hawkins got rewarding for flopping on a made 3, and then Villanova got a similar call about a minute later. Both calls were bad, and led to the players crashing to the ground after half the shots the rest of the way.

The refs should call 5 seconds closely guarded when Dixon takes 10 seconds backing a defender down to the paint from the 3 point line. The NCAA does not distinguish between back to the basket and facing up like the NBA does with the closely-guarded rule. On top of that, backing down, especially like Dixon was doing, is an offensive foul at every level of basketball, and the defender does not need to flop to get that call, despite the fact that the officials last night only called the offensive foul if the defender flopped. That is just lazy, stupid officiating.

Finally, call the freaking clear path foul like it is written. Officials make that call about 20% of the times they should make it. The point of that foul is so players will stop grabbing opponents on breakaways. If that foul is called correctly, there will be fewer free throws and more dunks. Who doesn't want that? Refs choke on this call all the time because they are afraid of giving a team 2 shots and the ball. Make the freaking call. Whitmore should have been called on one last night.

The NBA, NCAA and even high schools have implemented these adjustments and issued guidance over the last few years to make basketball more free-flowing, exciting, and fun. Yesterday's game was a 1990's rock fight. It was hard to watch, mostly because of the officials. If you want to know one reason why a free flowing, fun game like basketball does so much worse than football in the ratings, look at last night's game. Any casual fan that tried to watch that UConn/Villanova game would turn it off. It was just brutal. Compare that to the St. Johns/Xavier game which was much better officiated, and a lot more entertaining to the casual viewer even though Xavier was up 10+ points most of the game.

I never want to see that officiating crew again. They just suck.
I don't know if you started ranting in general here, but there is no clear path foul in college. Nor intentional foul, only flagrant/excessive fouls.

Closely guarded was also charged a few years ago and can't be called if a player is dribbling. So not possible to call on Dixon as he was dribbling while backing down.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
8,778
Reaction Score
59,163
Officials for the most part suck, that’s just a fact. They don’t suck for us more than others. The only bad call I remember on us that sticks out was the Adama 3. There isn’t an agenda against UConn.
Re read. That isn’t what he said

“don't think the officiating was particularly biased, it was just terrible.”
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
8,839
Reaction Score
29,676
Re read. That isn’t what he said

“don't think the officiating was particularly biased, it was just terrible.”
Yes but saying he “wants them to make the right call” all the time is a pointless ask. That’s just impossible. There is human error. If the officiating is bad for both sides pretty equally, that often means it was good. Officials are never going to be lauded, so when there is no impartial behavior, be happy with that. Unless you want to go to automated officiating, live with the bad calls, be frustrated when it is one-sided and voice those frustrations. But if it is equally poor, that’s not the worst outcome by any stretch.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,449
Reaction Score
16,389
I wanted to sleep on it before making this post.

Last night's game made me angry, not as a UConn fan, but as a basketball fan. I thought the Huskies played ok and ground out a decent, unremarkable win over an average Villanova team. The part that made me angry, and still has me angry the next day, was the absolutely horrible officiating. I don't think the officiating was particularly biased, it was just terrible. So terrible, that if I were the Big East I would not have those refs work a league game again until they prove they know the rules. They can call NEC or high school games if they want practice.

I think basketball is the greatest sport ever invented, but its Achilles Heel is officiating. Basketball is as dependent on good officiating as any sport, because, among other reasons, the officials can actually create scoring in basketball. Soccer is the only other major sport where that can happen. The officials make a dozen decisions every possession that impact the flow and often the outcome of the game. And when they are making consistently bad calls, they can make the game unwatchable, and at lower levels, unplayable. Last night was one of those games.

I do not advocate for officials letting them play or calling it tight. I simply want them to make the right call, and know the rules. When Villanova players are constantly flailing or fishing for fouls, the referees should either not call anything or call offensive fouls, because that is how the rules are written. Don't call some outdated foul off a flop during shooting when both the NBA and NCAA have specifically instructed officials not to reward players for doing that. Villanova, and to some extent UConn, were flopping all game. Hawkins got rewarding for flopping on a made 3, and then Villanova got a similar call about a minute later. Both calls were bad, and led to the players crashing to the ground after half the shots the rest of the way.

The refs should call 5 seconds closely guarded when Dixon takes 10 seconds backing a defender down to the paint from the 3 point line. The NCAA does not distinguish between back to the basket and facing up like the NBA does with the closely-guarded rule. On top of that, backing down, especially like Dixon was doing, is an offensive foul at every level of basketball, and the defender does not need to flop to get that call, despite the fact that the officials last night only called the offensive foul if the defender flopped. That is just lazy, stupid officiating.

Finally, call the freaking clear path foul like it is written. Officials make that call about 20% of the times they should make it. The point of that foul is so players will stop grabbing opponents on breakaways. If that foul is called correctly, there will be fewer free throws and more dunks. Who doesn't want that? Refs choke on this call all the time because they are afraid of giving a team 2 shots and the ball. Make the freaking call. Whitmore should have been called on one last night.

The NBA, NCAA and even high schools have implemented these adjustments and issued guidance over the last few years to make basketball more free-flowing, exciting, and fun. Yesterday's game was a 1990's rock fight. It was hard to watch, mostly because of the officials. If you want to know one reason why a free flowing, fun game like basketball does so much worse than football in the ratings, look at last night's game. Any casual fan that tried to watch that UConn/Villanova game would turn it off. It was just brutal. Compare that to the St. Johns/Xavier game which was much better officiated, and a lot more entertaining to the casual viewer even though Xavier was up 10+ points most of the game.

I never want to see that officiating crew again. They just suck.
You're right but we've been dealing with floppers since the 1980's in the NBA. Not sure how it started but the Sixers were masters at it and constantly got rewarded. How many straight up leaps did Travis Knight take to the chest and get called for being a statue? Hated it then and now but we've made little progress and some refs just can't keep up with the game physically or mentally. Others are willing to call fouls from a distance where the motion in question is blocked by the players themselves. The game is faster and it's not an easy job, but some of these guys are just over their heads.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,628
Reaction Score
34,471
Yes but saying he “wants them to make the right call” all the time is a pointless ask. That’s just impossible. There is human error. If the officiating is bad for both sides pretty equally, that often means it was good. Officials are never going to be lauded, so when there is no impartial behavior, be happy with that. Unless you want to go to automated officiating, live with the bad calls, be frustrated when it is one-sided and voice those frustrations. But if it is equally poor, that’s not the worst outcome by any stretch.

I actually complimented the officials of the SJU/Xavier game in the same post.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,628
Reaction Score
34,471
You're right but we've been dealing with floppers since the 1980's in the NBA. Not sure how it started but the Sixers were masters at it and constantly got rewarded. How many straight up leaps did Travis Knight take to the chest and get called for being a statue? Hated it then and now but we've made little progress and some refs just can't keep up with the game physically or mentally. Others are willing to call fouls from a distance where the motion in question is blocked by the players themselves. The game is faster and it's not an easy job, but some of these guys are just over their heads.

The NCAA issued specific guidance to officials before this season started to not reward flopping.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,628
Reaction Score
34,471
I don't know if you started ranting in general here, but there is no clear path foul in college. Nor intentional foul, only flagrant/excessive fouls.

Closely guarded was also charged a few years ago and can't be called if a player is dribbling. So not possible to call on Dixon as he was dribbling while backing down.

Backing a player down for 5+ feet is an offensive foul at every level of basketball, and no flop is necessary to get it.

I think you are wrong on the intentional foul call, because I have seen one this year, but I can't find a good source on it. If there is no intentional foul in college basketball, why don't players grab jerseys every time they are beat on a drive?

EDIT: A Flagrant 1 is the same as an intentional foul, and should effectively be called in the same circumstances as a Clear Path, although it can be called in other circumstances. You already knew that, but I had to look it up.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
1,922
Reaction Score
6,061
I know people are happy with the win but some may be apprehensive after comparing our recent wins to the wins early in the season against the high majors. If you think about it, our recent wins are more definitive of our greatness than our out of conference wins. Our biggest advantage has been taken away recently, and we still win rather soundly. The advantage I am talking about is the "surprise" factor. No one knew about DC, AK, or how good our transfers where early in the year. Now they do and coaches and teams are game planning for them. Despite that, our depth continues to shine. Matching the depth and the talent level is easier said than done. We shall see if this continues in our road games, but so far, so good.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
2,418
Reaction Score
8,930
I have been fighting COVID symptoms sinceTuesday noon so I did not know UCONN won until this morning searched iPAD. No TV or radio on , was afraid COVID would get worse if they lost got recording will watch. I feel a tiny small little bit better that UCONN won.
Dude please feel better. Been there. Luckily minor for me but bad for two days.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
651
Reaction Score
1,494
I wanted to sleep on it before making this post.

Last night's game made me angry, not as a UConn fan, but as a basketball fan. I thought the Huskies played ok and ground out a decent, unremarkable win over an average Villanova team. The part that made me angry, and still has me angry the next day, was the absolutely horrible officiating. I don't think the officiating was particularly biased, it was just terrible. So terrible, that if I were the Big East I would not have those refs work a league game again until they prove they know the rules. They can call NEC or high school games if they want practice.

I think basketball is the greatest sport ever invented, but its Achilles Heel is officiating. Basketball is as dependent on good officiating as any sport, because, among other reasons, the officials can actually create scoring in basketball. Soccer is the only other major sport where that can happen. The officials make a dozen decisions every possession that impact the flow and often the outcome of the game. And when they are making consistently bad calls, they can make the game unwatchable, and at lower levels, unplayable. Last night was one of those games.

I do not advocate for officials letting them play or calling it tight. I simply want them to make the right call, and know the rules. When Villanova players are constantly flailing or fishing for fouls, the referees should either not call anything or call offensive fouls, because that is how the rules are written. Don't call some outdated foul off a flop during shooting when both the NBA and NCAA have specifically instructed officials not to reward players for doing that. Villanova, and to some extent UConn, were flopping all game. Hawkins got rewarding for flopping on a made 3, and then Villanova got a similar call about a minute later. Both calls were bad, and led to the players crashing to the ground after half the shots the rest of the way.

The refs should call 5 seconds closely guarded when Dixon takes 10 seconds backing a defender down to the paint from the 3 point line. The NCAA does not distinguish between back to the basket and facing up like the NBA does with the closely-guarded rule. On top of that, backing down, especially like Dixon was doing, is an offensive foul at every level of basketball, and the defender does not need to flop to get that call, despite the fact that the officials last night only called the offensive foul if the defender flopped. That is just lazy, stupid officiating.

Finally, call the freaking clear path foul like it is written. Officials make that call about 20% of the times they should make it. The point of that foul is so players will stop grabbing opponents on breakaways. If that foul is called correctly, there will be fewer free throws and more dunks. Who doesn't want that? Refs choke on this call all the time because they are afraid of giving a team 2 shots and the ball. Make the freaking call. Whitmore should have been called on one last night.

The NBA, NCAA and even high schools have implemented these adjustments and issued guidance over the last few years to make basketball more free-flowing, exciting, and fun. Yesterday's game was a 1990's rock fight. It was hard to watch, mostly because of the officials. If you want to know one reason why a free flowing, fun game like basketball does so much worse than football in the ratings, look at last night's game. Any casual fan that tried to watch that UConn/Villanova game would turn it off. It was just brutal. Compare that to the St. Johns/Xavier game which was much better officiated, and a lot more entertaining to the casual viewer even though Xavier was up 10+ points most of the game.

I never want to see that officiating crew again. They just suck.
Unfortunately I think we see this crew more than any other.
 

Icehawk

TFG
Joined
Mar 6, 2020
Messages
758
Reaction Score
2,630
Here's the thing for me - I was never seriously worried they were going to lose. Last year? My fingernails would have been nubs. This was another game that proves the versatility and depth of the squad and why I think dreams are possible this season.

Credit to Nova for playing a game style that they thought (incorrectly) could win - push our bigs to the outside trying to defend a very mobile & strong Dixon. The Huskies have so many options and Hurley is showing he can respond effectively with them. Having Sanogo switch off Dixon at the perimeter in the 2nd half was a good move, better to keep our big in the paint and deny the interior - we're great at 3pt defense without their efforts. It helped to have the iron heat up a bit even if it didn't get hot - that first Hawkins 3 pinging out was just wrong.

Another lights out Nova team at the charity stripe, 94.5%? Wow. Glad we were able to limit the fouls in the 2nd half or that could have hurt us.

Great night for Hawkins, Karaban, and Diarra. I enjoyed watching Diarra, he had some really good moves where he changed up his speed and had some extreme speed bursts. His D was superb!

Love Andre, the T not so much - I mean he was all but touching the ref at the time, come on bro. I get it though and Coach pretty much was spot on in his post presser about it. This season they seem quick to call them in the games I've watched (inc. non UConn) for even the remotest appearance of smack talk. Come on man this is a courtyard not a courthouse.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
2,840
Reaction Score
19,664
This season they seem quick to call them in the games I've watched (inc. non UConn) for even the remotest appearance of smack talk. Come on man this is a courtyard not a courthouse.
I wonder if NIL is a reason for that. I was listening to a podcast with John Salley (played in the league with the Bad Boy Pistons, Jordan’s Bulls, and the 2000 Lakers) and he said that he noticed the league start to change to be more “soft” once the money started coming in.

Disclaimers that this is complete speculation/borderline conspiracy theorist, and I support players getting NIL money
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
16,863
Reaction Score
26,529
Clingan has not gotten the love he deserves for being in that critical second half run. The kid’s intensity is just astounding for a freshman, shouting out to encourage AJ during the game. He’s got that Hurley fire in him. I lIke’s how the announcers talked about his “chipped tooth”. He didn’t have a chipped tooth, it was smashed out of his head! Wearing the guard now but I don’t get how most players don’t. Anyway, Clingan scoring or not is still huge for this team and our runs with his shot alterations, boards and takeaways. A bit more PT please! I love this kid.


I have to add this, I guess I’m remembering all the years that we prayed, hoped and begged that we could get some production out of the 5 position by a player’s junior or senior year. That they would make that leap over the summer. Mostly it never happened. It’s shocking to see what Clingan can do.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,244
Reaction Score
37,417
this post from the peecee message board made me laugh. not sure how many harry potter fans are out there on the boneyard, but worth a read:



Oof, that thread. Those Peecee fans had a tiny glimpse of superiority and now are totally back to jealousy and allowing UConn and Hurley to live rent free in their heads.

Feels good to be back.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Messages
1,230
Reaction Score
4,050
Just saw the angle where Hawkins 100% bumped Neptune.. SPICY.. Neptune is soft as tissue paper, but I absolutely love a new rivalry created before our own eyes
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
2,901
Reaction Score
12,326
I wonder if NIL is a reason for that. I was listening to a podcast with John Salley (played in the league with the Bad Boy Pistons, Jordan’s Bulls, and the 2000 Lakers) and he said that he noticed the league start to change to be more “soft” once the money started coming in.

Disclaimers that this is complete speculation/borderline conspiracy theorist, and I support players getting NIL money
I don't know know anything about it other than what you wrote, but I assume Salley was referring to the league trying to not offend advertisers and/or conservative fans. That wouldn't seem to make any sense in the NIL context, because the NCAA doesn't care how much the players make in NIL money.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
47
Reaction Score
123
Nova likes to play 5 out and leave the lane empty to have their guys drive on their defenders with little or no help coming. They used that several times with good success.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
4,999
Reaction Score
22,849
Was this another joke?
Nope.. Just commentators quoting NBA scouts prior to his injury.. Did not say last year's lottery BTW.. His injury and his subsequent recovery is yet to play out for this year.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
50,343
Reaction Score
177,391
Nope.. Just commentators quoting NBA scouts prior to his injury.. Did not say last year's lottery BTW.. His injury and his subsequent recovery is yet to play out for this year.
He was possibly a second rounder before the injury and the chance of that would go down if he returned as a senior.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
362
Guests online
2,564
Total visitors
2,926

Forum statistics

Threads
159,820
Messages
4,206,666
Members
10,076
Latest member
Mpjd2024


.
Top Bottom