OT: - Victor Wembanyama | Page 4 | The Boneyard

OT: Victor Wembanyama

Another Mock just came out. Castle 4th. Quite a few internationals. I have to wonder if NBA basketball has shifted towards the international version of the game, like the NHL did 20 years ago. Not all the way, but enough to give some of those players an advantage.
bleacherreport.com

2024 NBA Mock Draft: Full Predictions as College Basketball Tips Off

NBA scouts have already started making their rounds to practices, exhibitions and pro games overseas. Even before college basketball tips off, first…
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
 
HuskyHawk said:
Another Mock just came out. Castle 4th. Quite a few internationals. I have to wonder if NBA basketball has shifted towards the international version of the game, like the NHL did 20 years ago. Not all the way, but enough to give some of those players an advantage.
bleacherreport.com

2024 NBA Mock Draft: Full Predictions as College Basketball Tips Off

NBA scouts have already started making their rounds to practices, exhibitions and pro games overseas. Even before college basketball tips off, first…
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
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Basically says the same as everyone. If he shoots well and defends he's a top 5 pick.

The NBA game is still very different than overseas IMO but they are much closer than they were in the mid-2000s. Europe embraced spread offenses earlier and never did the iso-heavy era really.

I think we're seeing more Euros and Africans just because the game is getting more popular. I love it.
 
HuskyHawk said:
So are you arguing he is the best ever, or that there is a different reason why he isn’t. For me, he‘s just not the winner Jordan was. So often his teams got blown out in the Finals. Jordan was undefeated in the Finals.

www.nba.com

Looking back: LeBron James' 10 trips to The Finals | NBA.com

LeBron James has won four NBA titles in his 10 career Finals trips.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
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I don't really have a dog in the fight, but citing a finals record is one of the weaker arguments. We're going to penalize Lebron for making the finals, and give credit to Jordan (and others) for having the wherewithal to lose earlier in the playoffs?

I'd probably go Jordan and Lebron as 1 and 2 due to Jordan having the mental edge.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I don't really have a dog in the fight, but citing a finals record is one of the weaker arguments. We're going to penalize Lebron for making the finals, and give credit to Jordan (and others) for having the wherewithal to lose earlier in the playoffs?

I'd probably go Jordan and Lebron as 1 and 2 due to Jordan having the mental edge.
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The one and only time I saw Jordan play in person cemented him as the greatest for me. I was at his 55 point game at MSG versus the Knicks. He was retired for about 18 months, hadn’t played a competitive game in almost 21 months, and then during his third game back put up 55 points against that defense. Think about how absurd that was.
 
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TheRealKBuks said:
Occam's razer my friend. Also, Do you know what anecdotal evidence means? There are hundred of hours of video evidence of LeBron flopping on the internet.
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I've heard him called LeFlop before. And I know at one point when his teams would meet up with the Celtics in the playoffs, Cs fans had all sorts of memes about him, forget what they were though.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I don't really have a dog in the fight, but citing a finals record is one of the weaker arguments. We're going to penalize Lebron for making the finals, and give credit to Jordan (and others) for having the wherewithal to lose earlier in the playoffs?

I'd probably go Jordan and Lebron as 1 and 2 due to Jordan having the mental edge.
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The finals argument used to be used against Tom Brady with Joe Montana. I remember Montana losing to the Vikings at home in the divisional round. It’s a dumb argument. There’s so many factors. It’s also different eras with a salary cap that makes it harder if not impossible to keep a super team together.
 
Travelman32 said:
I've heard him called LeFlop before. And I know at one point when his teams would meet up with the Celtics in the playoffs, Cs fans had all sorts of memes about him, forget what they were though.
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Then he dunked on KG’s dome
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I don't really have a dog in the fight, but citing a finals record is one of the weaker arguments. We're going to penalize Lebron for making the finals, and give credit to Jordan (and others) for having the wherewithal to lose earlier in the playoffs?

I'd probably go Jordan and Lebron as 1 and 2 due to Jordan having the mental edge.
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I don’t either at this point but I agree.

Also Jordan was never an underdog in any Final he played in. Lebron has carried some pretty weak teams there.
 
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Wilt, Bill Russell, Bird, Oscar...............................
These guys need to be in the conversation - they could play in any era and dominate as would MJ and LeBron
 
gtcam said:
Wilt, Bill Russell, Bird, Oscar...............................
These guys need to be in the conversation - they could play in any era and dominate as would MJ and LeBron
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Wilt and Oscar had stats that are almost hard to believe when you scan them.
 
gtcam said:
Wilt, Bill Russell, Bird, Oscar...............................
These guys need to be in the conversation - they could play in any era and dominate as would MJ and LeBron
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They could, I just think specifically Jordan and LeBron transfer skillsets better than pretty much any other player. LeBron in the 90’s would’ve been insane because of the defensive rules, and Jordan similarly in the 2000’s because of how easy it would be for him to draw fouls.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
They could, I just think specifically Jordan and LeBron transfer skillsets better than pretty much any other player. LeBron in the 90’s would’ve been insane because of the defensive rules, and Jordan similarly in the 2000’s because of how easy it would be for him to draw fouls.
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Wilt, Russell, and Oscar also played when there were far fewer teams, so there were few scrubs on benches let alone getting minutes. The talent level was super high.
 
HuskyWarrior611 said:
I don’t either at this point but I agree.

Also Jordan was never an underdog in any Final he played in. Lebron has carried some pretty weak teams there.
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The thing is Jordan wasn't chasing anyone. He was legitimately the most famous person in the world, it got to be a bit too much him culminating with the murder of his dad. He retired twice when he was by far the best player in the league leaving several more NBA titles on the board. I think there's a pretty good chance those two three peats would've been a 10 peat without the retirements.

I think you're pretty young so probably didn't get to watch him...people often refer to him having the greatest competitiveness ever but it's wild how he was doing stuff athletically that nobody else has done since. Nobody has ever come close to catching the amount of bodies he caught, he routinely dunked on entire front lines. You hardly ever see it anymore. The reaction videos are a bit much on YouTube but I still like seeing young people react to Jordan's highlight tape.

 
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TheHorde said:
Wilt, Russell, and Oscar also played when there were far fewer teams, so there were few scrubs on benches let alone getting minutes. The talent level was super high.
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Fewer teams does not mean the talent level was better. I've never heard anyone argue the overall talent level was better then, with good reason. It wasn't.
 
Inyatkin said:
Fewer teams does not mean the talent level was better. I've never heard anyone argue the overall talent level was better then, with good reason. It wasn't.
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Fewer roster spots would mean for example only the best 100-120 players would find roster spots, no?
 
TheHorde said:
Fewer roster spots would mean for example only the best 100-120 players would find roster spots, no?
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There was just less high quality basketball players overall. If you don't think the overall talent pool now is way higher than back then, I don't know what to tell you. There were no International players back then, etc
 
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KembaSlice said:
There was just less high quality basketball players overall. If you don't think the overall talent pool now is way higher than back then, I don't know what to tell you. There were no International players back then, etc
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The athleticism level is undoubtedly higher now as a whole. The fundamentals are more debatable. And the talent pool is spread thinner over double or triple the amount of teams. The folks at Bleacher Report measured eras and came to the conclusion that the 1980s and 1990s were the two greatest eras. Sometimes folks suffer from Recency Bias.
 
KembaSlice said:
There was just less high quality basketball players overall. If you don't think the overall talent pool now is way higher than back then, I don't know what to tell you. There were no International players back then, etc
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There also were international players in the Olympics back in the day that American college kids would flog every four years. And those players were mature grown men.
 
TheHorde said:
The athleticism level is undoubtedly higher now as a whole. The fundamentals are more debatable. And the talent pool is spread thinner over double or triple the amount of teams. The folks at Bleacher Report measured eras and came to the conclusion that the 1980s and 1990s were the two greatest eras. Sometimes folks suffer from Recency Bias.
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I believe that article came out in 2011, and did not measure the 2010’s.
 
TheHorde said:
syndication.bleacherreport.com

Ranking Each Decade of NBA Basketball, from the 1960s to Today

Throughout NBA history, we've experienced the purity of the 1960s, the creativity and growth of the '70s , the sheer competitive nature of the '80s, the on-court brilliance ...
syndication.bleacherreport.com

It came out in 2013, and did include the 2010s.
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Well, that’s pretty paradoxical. Included a decade that they were less than a third into.
 
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