Very Early Draft Question

[easttexastrash]

There is no way that Griner and Cambage are on the same team and of they were, play at the same time. Along with Johnson? At the 3? I don't think so. That's a scoring position. 42.9% won't cut it.

Glory cannot play the 3 unless she improves her shot. She simply doesn't have a dependable jumper at this point in her career. She has to be close to the basket to be effective.

 

[doggydaddy]

It makes sense if you read the entire post...

Yes most of them can shoot a standing jumpshot but if Griner had Cambage in the paint, she would be right there to block it. They couldn't shoot over her. Catchings could create her own shot, but like I said she's really a 3.

Most teams don't have two centers worth starting. Chicago has done it the past two years with Snow and Riley teaming with Fowles. Honestly there is really only one true dominant center in the league in Fowels. And I think even Chicago would draft Griner first to team with her. Parker, Charles, and LJ would all slide to the four if Griner were drafted by their team.

I read the entire post. These mobil forwards would drive by Griner and if Cambage left her man to block the shot they would pass to the player left open. This isn't college anymore. These are the best players in the world.

I just don't see them keeping Cambage if they get Griner. They would be better off with with a more traditional lineup. And they probably could get someone pretty good for Cambage.

Parker, Charles and LJ all have forward skills. Cambage does not.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I agree that other than Chicago, every other team would move their current center to the 4 or to the bench in exchange for Griner. I would love to see Griner and Charles on the same team.

Thanks for answering my question.

It seems highly unlikely, but suppose that Chicago gets the #1 pick somehow. They have Big Syl. What do they do in the draft?

 

[easttexastrash]

I read the entire post. These mobil forwards would drive by Griner and if Cambage left her man to block the shot they would pass to the player left open. This isn't college anymore. These are the best players in the world.

I just don't see them keeping Cambage if they get Griner. They would be better off with with a more traditional lineup. And they probably could get someone pretty good for Cambage.

Parker, Charles and LJ all have forward skills. Cambage does not.

I can't imagine Cambage and Grinder on the court together. You don't draft Griner to put her at the 4. She is like Big Syl and belongs under the basket.

 

[easttexastrash]

Thanks for answering my question.

It seems highly unlikely, but suppose that Chicago gets the #1 pick somehow. They have Big Syl. What do they do in the draft?

Draft Griner and make a trade. But who goes, Griner or Syl? I wouldn't want to have to make that decision. Of course, I would keep BG.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Draft Griner and make a trade. But who goes, Griner or Syl? I wouldn't want to have to make that decision. Of course, I would keep BG.

Griner looks like a sure thing. Sylvia is a sure thing. That would be tough.

 

[easttexastrash]

Griner looks like a sure thing. Sylvia is a sure thing. That would be tough.

Big Syl may be the best true center to ever play. BG may take that title some day but for now Syl gets my vote.

 

[Icebear]

It makes sense if you read the entire post...

No it doesn't. It would be torn to shreds in short order.

 

[tnvolfan65]

I read the entire post. These mobil forwards would drive by Griner and if Cambage left her man to block the shot they would pass to the player left open. This isn't college anymore. These are the best players in the world.

I just don't see them keeping Cambage if they get Griner. They would be better off with with a more traditional lineup. And they probably could get someone pretty good for Cambage.

Parker, Charles and LJ all have forward skills. Cambage does not.

The 4 and 5 both play under the basket. And Griner doesn't get blown by. That's what makes her so special. She's big but she's also mobile unlike Cain, Dydek, Feenstra, and Dehaan. And it's not like those forwards would have her out at half court sizing her up or even the 3-point line. Griner could definitely guard those fours with ease. Meanwhile with most of them 5-7 inches shorter than her, she can shoot her turnaround jumpers and out to the free throw line with ease.

And I never said Glory would be the ideal 3 on the offensive side. Once again, I was speculating about their defensive possibilities with the additions of Cambage and Griner. I am more aware than most people on this board that Glory doesn't have much of a perimeter game at this point in her career.

The league hasn't seen a player like Griner, ever. And we've barely have seen what Cambage can do. She may end up being one of if not the only post players who can compete with Griner. Why would you give her to another team?

In my opinion, it would be one hell of a twin towers experiment. Yes, EDD would probably fit into their traditional line up better, or trading Cambage and keeping Griner could give them some nice options, but good, even great wings and forwards are a lot more common than 6'8" post players...

 

[doggydaddy]

The 4 and 5 both play under the basket. And Griner doesn't get blown by. That's what makes her so special. She's big but she's also mobile unlike Cain, Dydek, Feenstra, and Dehaan. And it's not like those forwards would have her out at half court sizing her up or even the 3-point line. Griner could definitely guard those fours with ease. Meanwhile with most of them 5-7 inches shorter than her, she can shoot her turnaround jumpers and out to the free throw line with ease.

And I never said Glory would be the ideal 3 on the offensive side. Once again, I was speculating about their defensive possibilities with the additions of Cambage and Griner. I am more aware than most people on this board that Glory doesn't have much of a perimeter game at this point in her career.

The league hasn't seen a player like Griner, ever. And we've barely have seen what Cambage can do. She may end up being one of if not the only post players who can compete with Griner. Why would you give her to another team?

In my opinion, it would be one hell of a twin towers experiment. Yes, EDD would probably fit into their traditional line up better, or trading Cambage and keeping Griner could give them some nice options, but good, even great wings and forwards are a lot more common than 6'8" post players...

Well, I don't know what to say anymore if you think that in the WNBA the 4 only plays in the post. You are so wrong. And if you think that Griner can play these mobil 4's that can shoot, you are wrong again.

You trade Cambage because they play the same position and you can get someone good for her.

 

[easttexastrash]

No it doesn't. It would be torn to shreds in short order.

Like Shredded Wheat.

 

[asuwish]

If Tulsa wins the lottery, do they take Griner and peddle Cambage?

Or do they keep the big Aussie and take EDD with the 1st pick?

A number of sub questions suggest themselves. Could Griner play
the 4, and would you want her to? Is EDD strong enough to play
the 4, or would the wing be her most effective position?

This is fun! How about EDD and DT together? Let the 3's fly from everywhere. If Tulsa could trade Liz (and more) for the #2 pick EDD and Griner could be amazing. I don't see Diggins as a game changer the way EDD and Griner can be. Diggins is good, but I think there are at least 5 or 6 pg's with her skill set. Let's call her a Renee with more marketability. EDD in the WNBA would only have to be away from home for 4 months not 10+ and without the grind of homework maybe able to see her sister during the season more. Going oversees maybe the harder choice. If not basketball she still has to get a job. Washington would be the ideal spot for her to land. EDD could play the 4 at 6'5. She may struggle with the more physical 4's, but she's going to make them chase her all over the court and negate their ability to crash the boards. Lastly Seattle with 2 6'5 's taking 3's (Jackson and EDD) or Jackson and Griner playing high low inside being fed by Sue, can you say championship(s).

 

[asuwish]

Big Syl may be the best true center to ever play. BG may take that title some day but for now Syl gets my vote.

Even though I wasn't her biggest fan Lisa Leslie was the most dominant big in the WNBA.

 

[UConnCat]

Well, I don't know what to say anymore if you think that in the WNBA the 4 only plays in the post. You are so wrong. And if you think that Griner can play these mobil 4's that can shoot, you are wrong again.

You trade Cambage because they play the same position and you can get someone good for her.

The one area where Griner really needs to improve her defense is on the pick-and-roll and learning how to hedge on defense. Mulkey doesn't have her do that very often because her footwork is not really where it needs to be (and it's not where it will be with experience and practice). But there's no doubt that once she gets to the WNBA, opposing teams will draw her out and involve her in a lot of pick-and-rolls that will be executed better than anything she's seen at the collegiate level.

 

[asuwish]

I can't imagine Cambage and Grinder on the court together. You don't draft Griner to put her at the 4. She is like Big Syl and belongs under the basket.

Remember David Robinson and Tim Duncan played together. They had a defensive system designed to force players to the base line. One would trap the ball while the other covered the middle. It worked out pretty well. Griner would be free and can defend out to the arc while Liz held down the paint. On O I'm not sure what sets to run but it could be a nice problem. You would need good outside shooters to be most effective which maybe why Glory would not be a great fit.

 

[doggydaddy]

Remember David Robinson and Tim Duncan played together. They had a defensive system designed to force players to the base line. One would trap the ball while the other covered the middle. It worked out pretty well. Griner would be free and can defend out to the arc while Liz held down the paint. On O I'm not sure what sets to run but it could be a nice problem. You would need good outside shooters to be most effective which maybe why Glory would not be a great fit.

UConncat said it best - "The one area where Griner really needs to improve her defense is on the pick-and-roll and learning how to hedge on defense. Mulkey doesn't have her do that very often because her footwork is not really where it needs to be (and it's not where it will be with experience and practice). But there's no doubt that once she gets to the WNBA, opposing teams will draw her out and involve her in a lot of pick-and-rolls that will be executed better than anything she's seen at the collegiate level."

 

[easttexastrash]

Even though I wasn't her biggest fan Lisa Leslie was the most dominant big in the WNBA.

Definitely a great one.

 

[MilfordHusky]

This is fun! How about EDD and DT together? Let the 3's fly from everywhere.

Elena woould have to get in better shape to play Paul/Corey-ball in Phoenix, but she would thrive in the open court structure. She is a fabulous shooter when open, and Diana would find her.

 

[UConnCat]

Well, I don't know what to say anymore if you think that in the WNBA the 4 only plays in the post. You are so wrong. And if you think that Griner can play these mobil 4's that can shoot, you are wrong again..

A couple of additional points:

Nneka showed in the second half of the semi-final game that she could attack Griner and go right by her.

Also, the Shock needs good players who can put the ball in the basket. Right now, the Shock are the worst shooting team in the WNBA. I don't think the team has the luxury of enough talent that it can experiment with a twin tower lineup with Griner and Cambage. It needs to surround one of these centers with good guards and a good wing.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Tulsa has a strong trio of guards in Johnson, Williams, and Latta. Good wings are a dime a dozen. Johnson/Lacy/Pederson could still play the four with Griner/Cambage if the "experiment" doesn't work, and would probably see minutes anyways. It's not like they're going to play 40 minutes together.

And you can always trade Cambage later. But why give away one of two 6'8" centers in the league when you can have both of them at the same time? Like I said, the league has never seen a player like Griner before and the world has never seen a post combination like the two of them together. Nolan Richardson didn't utilize Cambage enough and she's young but they have the potential to dominate.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Also, Tulsa is not going to get an Augustus, DT, or Cappie for Cambage. Players like Wiggins or Wright or KT or Beard would be more likely. But then you're giving a team like or L.A. a counter to your best player.

Maybe a team like Indy or Connecticut would be willing to take a bigger risk on Cmabage in order to shake things up and you can get a solid 2-for-1 deal, but Cambage has huge upside and I think Tulsa would regret it later.

 

[doggydaddy]

Tulsa has a strong trio of guards in Johnson, Williams, and Latta. Good wings are a dime a dozen. Johnson/Lacy/Pederson could still play the four with Griner/Cambage if the "experiment" doesn't work, and would probably see minutes anyways. It's not like they're going to play 40 minutes together.

And you can always trade Cambage later. But why give away one of two 6'8" centers in the league when you can have both of them at the same time? Like I said, the league has never seen a player like Griner before and the world has never seen a post combination like the two of them together. Nolan Richardson didn't utilize Cambage enough and she's young but they have the potential to dominate.

Griner is going to demand (by her skill level) 30-35 minutes a game. Camage needs starter minutes as well.

If you wait to trade her because it didn't work out, her value will not be as much as before and you can probably get a significant player in return. Like you said, there are only two 6'8" centers so Cambage will be in big demand.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Griner is going to demand (by her skill level) 30-35 minutes a game. Camage needs starter minutes as well.

If you wait to trade her because it didn't work out, her value will not be as much as before and you can probably get a significant player in return. Like you said, there are only two 6'8" centers so Cambage will be in big demand.

Why will her trade value go down a year later? Or even midway through the season, which is an option if they don't like playing them together.

And who do you see Tulsa getting in exchange for Cambage?

 

[doggydaddy]

Why will her trade value go down a year later? Or even midway through the season, which is an option if they don't like playing them together.

And who do you see Tulsa getting in exchange for Cambage?

1. Her trade value would go down because, in my opinion, she won't see as much playing time at her best position because Griner will be getting most minutes at center.

2. I have no idea who they would get. Too many variables between now an the draft.

 

[tnvolfan65]

1. Her trade value would go down because, in my opinion, she won't see as much playing time at her best position because Griner will be getting most minutes at center.

2. I have no idea who they would get. Too many variables between now an the draft.

Obviously teams would be able to see that as well. Her size and potential doesn't change in time. She would probably only improve going against Griner everyday.

And you just keep speaking of the wings/guards they could get. I was wondering who you had in mind.

 

[doggydaddy]

Obviously teams would be able to see that as well. Her size and potential doesn't change in time. She would probably only improve going against Griner everyday.

And you just keep speaking of the wings/guards they could get. I was wondering who you had in mind.

I'm not a WNBA GM and either are you. You keep mentioning players they can't get. But she is a unique player that would garner a decent return. And they would get Griner as a draft choice, so whoever they got in return for Cambage would be a positive. And it doesn't just have to be a wing/guard. It could be a true 4 that can do more than just play defense.

 

[UConnCat]

Tulsa has a strong trio of guards in Johnson, Williams, and Latta. Good wings are a dime a dozen. Johnson/Lacy/Pederson could still play the four with Griner/Cambage if the "experiment" doesn't work, and would probably see minutes anyways. It's not like they're going to play 40 minutes together.

I don't consider Riquana Williams, Tameka Johnson and Ivory Latta to be a strong group of guards, at least not by WNBA standards, and it's not a backcourt that is going to win playoff games even with Griner at center. Putting aside their offensive deficiencies, who among that group is going to guard Augustus, or Taurasi, or Pondexter, etc. As for good wings being a "dime a dozen," tell that to the Connecticut Sun, Seattle Storm, SA Stars, LA Sparks, etc. The Seattle Storm have now resorted to starting a 38-year-old shooting guard at the wing. The Sun would be competing for championships if it had a wing who could both defend and score.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Cambage performs this summer in the Olympics.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Cambage performs this summer in the Olympics.

Same here. She was not in great shape during her last WNBA season. I wonder if she may have a battle with her weight throughout her career. She seems like a fun loving kid and I have to wonder at what point she will make a real commitment to her fitness.

 

[tnvolfan65]

I don't consider Riquana Williams, Tameka Johnson and Ivory Latta to be a strong group of guards, at least not by WNBA standards, and it's not a backcourt that is going to win playoff games even with Griner at center. Putting aside their offensive deficiencies, who among that group is going to guard Augustus, or Taurasi, or Pondexter, etc. As for good wings being a "dime a dozen," tell that to the Connecticut Sun, Seattle Storm, SA Stars, LA Sparks, etc. The Seattle Storm have now resorted to starting a 38-year-old shooting guard at the wing. The Sun would be competing for championships if it had a wing who could both defend and score.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Cambage performs this summer in the Olympics.

Who ever slows down DT, Augustus, or Cappie? If they want to score, they will. Tulsa could rotate one of the small guards to pester them, or Dorrell or Johnson if they wanted more size.

The Sun are among the best in the league right now. Clearly they felt content with their roster because they made no attempt to shake it up. They have the 2nd best center and the best point guard combo in the league, so it makes sense that their weakest position may be at the wing. Unless your Minny and get in the lottery for 15 years in a row, you can't have all-stars at every position.

L.A. has Beard and DMJ. San Antonio has Perkins and Johnson. And Seattle brought on Smith and Thompson. I dont ser your point. Smith led them in scoring from the 3 two games ago. They all sucked against Minny, I dont think it had anything to do with Smith starting. She, Thompspn, and Stricklen are all capable wings in this league. I wouldn't call that a weak rotation, but again when you supposedly have the best point-post combo in the world, it makes sense that your weakest position might be on the wing. Their problem is Bird is not playing well and LJ isn't playing.

 

[doggydaddy]

Who ever slows down DT, Augustus, or Cappie? If they want to score, they will. Tulsa could rotate one of the small guards to pester them, or Dorrell or Johnson if they wanted more size.

The Sun are among the best in the league right now. Clearly they felt content with their roster because they made no attempt to shake it up. They have the 2nd best center and the best point guard combo in the league, so it makes sense that their weakest position may be at the wing. Unless your Minny and get in the lottery for 15 years in a row, you can't have all-stars at every position.

L.A. has Beard and DMJ. San Antonio has Perkins and Johnson. And Seattle brought on Smith and Thompson. I dont ser your point. Smith led them in scoring from the 3 two games ago. They all sucked against Minny, I dont think it had anything to do with Smith starting. She, Thompspn, and Stricklen are all capable wings in this league. I wouldn't call that a weak rotation, but again when you supposedly have the best point-post combo in the world, it makes sense that your weakest position might be on the wing. Their problem is Bird is not playing well and LJ isn't playing.

I'll let UConncat handle the response here as you questioned her. But I will question your one comment.

"She, Thompspn, and Stricklen are all capable wings in this league."

Ok...I let go your pumping up of Glory Johnson. She is a hard worker and tough defender. But saying Stricklen is a capable wing at this point in her career is just nuts.

She is shooting 31.7% from the field, 21.7% on 3's and 42.9% on FT's with 5 total assists for the season. One double digit game against Minnesota doesn't make her capable.