Val Ackerman press conference

[NJHusky]

It's telling that there is a third option - a competent government response - that doesn't even rank on the decision tree.

So, what is your intelligent response? and please don't say testing...that's a given.

 

[selles]

But the big push to reopen quickly is held by a minority of Americans.

This may be true in the northeast. I'm not so sure it's the case elsewhere.

 

[BlueMAB]

Like an unemployment office besieged by unemployed Americans? Or a hospital over run with patients?

My job is part running the safety net. It sucks.

Even if it didn't suck. I can guarantee it would fail quickly (if only temporarily) if 10X as many applications/calls are coming in then what is normal for an extended period of time

 

[NJHusky]

Those are failures of government support, though. Every single thing you mention is a consequence of not taking care of its citizens. Your life should not be wedded to work.

so the gov't is supposed to supply food, rent, living expenses for 200 million people? how are they supposed to pay for this? Sorry, but if you don't work...how do you support yourself?

 

[HooperScooper]

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Not looking to fight at all. Just trying to get my point across that I think a lot of people ignore which is that staying locked down will also cause lots of damage. The economy also affects public health in a big way. Also I'm not for a rushed reopening at all. I'm all for those who don't feel safe working at a meat packing plant staying home if they feel their health at work is at risk. However if businesses can comply with social distancing, their employees want to go back to work, and they require compliance from customers, let them work.

The problem is businesses will do a good job of setting up social distancing, sanitizing, etc and there are a good number of patrons who will ignore it bc they are entitled pr!cks. I see it almost every time I go to the grocery store, Home Depot, etc and I don't leave my house that often. Some people simply cannot follow simple rules and will take the "no one tells me what to do" attitude which extends the problems we're seeing. I think opening businesses in a pragmatic way is what we need but the people who frequent these businesses also need to be step up and find a way not to be d-bags about their newly found freedom.

 

[BlueMAB]

The problem is businesses will do a good job of setting up social distancing, sanitizing, etc and there are a good number of patrons who will ignore it bc they are entitled pr!cks. I see it almost every time I go to the grocery store, Home Depot, etc and I don't leave my house that often. Some people simply cannot follow simple rules and take the "no one tells me what to do" attitude which extends the problems we're seeing. I think opening businesses in a pragmatic way is what we need but the people who frequent these businesses also need to be step up and find a way not to be d-bags about their newly found freedom.

And then there's this story.

 

[JimHurley]

The problem is businesses will do a good job of setting up social distancing, sanitizing, etc and there are a good number of patrons who will ignore it bc they are entitled pr!cks. I see it almost every time I go to the grocery store, Home Depot, etc and I don't leave my house that often. Some people simply cannot follow simple rules and take the "no one tells me what to do" attitude which extends the problems we're seeing. I think opening businesses in a pragmatic way is what we need but the people who frequent these businesses also need to be step up and find a way not to be d-bags about their newly found freedom.

I agree with you. People must comply or it won’t work. The take out restaurants I visit require a mask to go inside and don’t let any more than 5 customers in at a time. Businesses will have to enforce such rules.

 

[BlueMAB]

so the gov't is supposed to supply food, rent, living expenses for 200 million people? how are they supposed to pay for this? Sorry, but if you don't work...how do you support yourself?

*checks google.

308 million people

 

[David 76]

Not looking to fight at all. Just trying to get my point across that I think a lot of people ignore which is that staying locked down will also cause lots of damage. The economy also affects public health in a big way. Also I'm not for a rushed reopening at all. I'm all for those who don't feel safe working at a meat packing plant staying home if they feel their health at work is at risk. However if businesses can comply with social distancing, their employees want to go back to work, and they require compliance from customers, let them work.

Thanks.
I have been in my office except for the time they spent decontaminating it because we had someone with covid19. As you might guess from my handle, I'm old. 65. So is my wife and she has medical conditions that put her further at risk. I did not like the idea that I might kill her by going to work.
It's complicated and we all need to listen. Americans are not very good at that anymore.
I say follow the guidelines. I also realize we can't keep paying people to not work. I see a lot of white collar guys screaming for, basically, blue collar guys to return to risky jobs to save the white collar guys retirement accounts.But there are also non-salaried people with their lives falling apart, that need help.

 

[NJHusky]

You seem to just want to fight, but I'll give this a try.
No one ever said the number of people with the virus has to go to zero. No one.
What the guidelines call for is a reduction in hospitalization fo r, I believe 14 days.
There are concerns about about our economy, people 's ability to survive financially etc. They are legitimate. We are talking about how we best get there.
But the big push to reopen quickly is held by a minority of Americans. Many businesses do not agree to rushing . Most people are not rushing out to shop.
I hope you can take this in a constructive way.
Otherwise, if your feelings are this strong, put your money where your mouth is and volunteer to work at a meat packing plant.

Nothing is forcing anyone who doesn't want to participate in society to leave the house. Stay at home and don't leave...EVER. Don't let anyone into your house. Don't let anyone you live with leave the house either.

FL has opened restaurants...i'm choosing not to go out to eat...but I go to the store and I'm going to play golf now.

 

[Peacefrog]

That's an absurd statement, there is absolutely logic for not being locked down indefinitely. I think the logic of opening things back up smartly far outweighs indefinite lockdown. A study found an additional 75,000 people will die from deaths of despair from the lockdowns. Another study found 70,000 cancers with go undetected. Vaccinations for kids have plummeted.

It's incredibly sad for that 30 year old man and his family but he's a huge outlier.

I'm not in disagreement as I think we need to find a way to gradually and safely loosen restrictions. I'm not an expert in this area so I can't speak to the speed and magnitude of the loosening but from the numbers I've seen, including the projections of ancillary deaths from mental illness etc..., it seems we are probably going a bit too fast. Anyway, that's not even the point I wanted to make. Many are putting a lot of weight on the additional non-Covid deaths that are projected to result from isolation. No argument there, those deaths are just as tragic as those caused by the virus. However, there are going to be ancillary lives saved from isolation that will offset those to some as yet undetermined extent. I can't remember where I saw it but there are projections in the hundreds of thousands (globally) of reduced deaths from pulmonary and other disorders due to reduced air pollution resulting from lock-downs (not to mention the positive effect on the environment). More polluted places like China will disproportionately benefit but there will be a meaningful effect in the US as well.

Gotta go, victory #5 in five days is about to start.

 

[NJHusky]

*checks google.

308 million people

I assume not 100% of the population is of working age..uses common sense

 

[David 76]

This may be true in the northeast. I'm not so sure it's the case elsewhere.

National polls say: most people think the restrictions are "about right" or " should be stronger"

 

[navery12]

Nothing is forcing anyone who doesn't want to participate in society to leave the house. Stay at home and don't leave...EVER. Don't let anyone into your house. Don't let anyone you live with leave the house either.

FL has opened restaurants...i'm choosing not to go out to eat...but I go to the store and I'm going to play golf now.

That's fair, but what do you do when that person who wants to stay open has a job they don't feel safe returning to? Now they're not working and won't qualify for unemployment.

I don't know what the answer is but those are the types of questions you have to consider and figure out how you start to reopen

 

[BlueMAB]

I assume not 100% of the population is of working age..uses common sense

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

But...

If the government is now supporting those who used to work. Then nobody is supporting those who aren't of working age (as you put it).

So common sense tells me the government will have to support those people too.

And...

If we're talking about a social safety net, then common sense tells me it applies to 100% of Americans, not just people who are able to work.

 

[JimHurley]

Thanks.
I have been in my office except for the time they spent decontaminating it because we had someone with covid19. As you might guess from my handle, I'm old. 65. So is my wife and she has medical conditions that put her further at risk. I did not like the idea that I might kill her by going to work.
It's complicated and we all need to listen. Americans are not very good at that anymore.
I say follow the guidelines. I also realize we can't keep paying people to not work. I see a lot of white collar guys screaming for, basically, blue collar guys to return to risky jobs to save the white collar guys retirement accounts.But there are also non-salaried people with their lives falling apart, that need help.

I sympathize with people like you. I know it’s nerve wrecking to be 65 and living with someone who has medical conditions in this environment. I get it. I’m one of the fortunate ones being white collar (I’m an economist), and able to work from home so I know it’s impossible for me to know what some people are going through. I’m in the camp that believes those who are blue collar shouldn’t have to go to work if they feel it sacrifices their health but that they should be able to if they want to and follow guidelines. Hope you and your wife stay safe.

 

[David 76]

Even if it didn't suck. I can guarantee it would fail quickly (if only temporarily) if 10X as many applications/calls are coming in then what is normal for an extended period of time

Oh sure. And this drop was fast! But they should be more prepared. We have downturns in the economy on a regular basis. Every time it happens they are, like, "well, we couldn't have seen this coming"

Just uncomplicate the process in an emergency.
And when you see how the small business money was abused. People who hate government do a terrible job of running it

 

[NJHusky]

That's fair, but what do you do when that person who wants to stay open has a job they don't feel safe returning to? Now they're not working and won't qualify for unemployment.

I don't know what the answer is but those are the types of questions you have to consider and figure out how you start to reopen

That is a logical question...I don't have the answer. Change rules for unemployment? I would guess that most businesses that are open are not at 100% so maybe ask who wants to come to work? Let those above a certain age or with comorbidities have more options?

 

[NJHusky]

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

But...

If the government is now supporting those who used to work. Then nobody is supporting those who aren't of working age (as you put it).

So common sense tells me the government will have to support those people too.

And...

If we're talking about a social safety net, then common sense tells me it applies to 100% of Americans, not just people who are able to work.

Those didn't change because of Covid..If you were on Social Security in 2019 you are still on it. I was talking about those that were working and keeping the country afloat.

 

[huskymedic]

However if businesses can comply with social distancing, their employees want to go back to work, and they require compliance from customers, let them work.

Hate to continue to spin this off topic but what do you suggest the consequences are for those businesses that don't?

 

[JimHurley]

That is a logical question...I don't have the answer. Change rules for unemployment? I would guess that most businesses that are open are not at 100% so maybe ask who wants to come to work? Let those above a certain age or with comorbidities have more options?

That is a good question. Maybe allow them the option to be furloughed and cover their healthcare while allowing them to collect unemployment?

 

[JimHurley]

Hate to continue to spin this off topic but what do you suggest the consequences are for those businesses that don't?

Just mentioned that actually. Could you offer them the option to be furloughed while covering their healthcare and still allow them to collect unemployment? Then they can get their job back once they feel safe?

 

[NJHusky]

That is a good question. Maybe allow them the option to be furloughed and cover their healthcare while allowing them to collect unemployment?

Excellent idea...

 

[huskymedic]

Just mentioned that actually. Could you offer them the option to be furloughed while covering their healthcare and still allow them to collect unemployment? Then they can get their job back once they feel safe?

No... I was asking what you thought the consequences should be for individual businesses who don't comply w/ social distancing and ensuring employee/customer compliance w/ such rules. One warning and shut down?

 

[David 76]

Maybe we can agree that it's serious and it's complicated and we all want healthy, financially secure citizens and not discuss our differences in returning to normal like any of us know the true answer.
Odd approach, I know but worth a try.

 

[JimHurley]

Excellent idea...

That is what almost happened to my dad. They had to furlough 4 out of their team of 10. They are covering all of the healthcare costs for their employees who were furloughed, they can collect unemployment, and are scheduled to return in August.

 

[NJHusky]

That is what almost happened to my dad. They had to furlough 4 out of their team of 10. They are covering all of the healthcare costs for their employees who were furloughed, they can collect unemployment, and are scheduled to return in August.

sounds like he works for a well run company

 

[JimHurley]

No... I was asking what you thought the consequences should be for individual businesses who don't comply w/ social distancing and ensuring employee/customer compliance w/ such rules. One warning and shut down?

Ah, okay. Perhaps 1. warning, 2. fine, 3. shut down?

I think that would allow for strict standards while also not letting a few foolish businesses to ruin it for everyone.

 

[TXHuskyFan]

Places will continue to reopen because we cannot wait until cases get to 0 to return to normalcy. Lots of high end reports and studies are coming out now saying the lockdowns and economic effects will cause more harm than the virus itself. Nobody can say for sure, but I think we will be playing a full schedule this season.

It Is not about cases getting to 0, it’s about being able to manage the cases that pop up. Texas is a free for all right now. They are tracking nothing and opening everything. I know people that have been in restaurants at full capacity, inside, not on the patio. So now you have two distinct groups...people that are comfortable in that environment and those who are not. I know many people in the middle that are saying that they would start to go out if they felt any measures were in place, but there are not so they are staying home. There is no contact tracing and barely quarantine. I know people that tested positive and still were going out. They said they felt ok so didn’t think it was a big deal. Time will tell how it plays out. I am hopeful, but not overly optimistic.