Utah Sports Ruckus: For BYU it's about time to raise political havoc

[jostar1]

PROVO — BYU was in the news Wednesday for its investigation of allegations that some members of its football team over the years have received “improper benefits” from former director of football operations Duane Busby. While potentially an impactful development, at present this should fall under the “let’s-wait-and-see-the-facts-before-we-over-analyze-it” category of news stories.

There’s actually another BYU story right now that involves more important issues, in the big picture, than whether some college athletes stayed on someone’s couch for free or received minor assistance in other ways.

BYU and its supporters need to be prepared to make news for a totally different reason. They need to be ready to raise a little political havoc in the name of anti-discrimination and equality, if they want to remain legitimately in the business of college sports, and especially college football.

In college athletics, BYU, the flagship university of The Church of of Latter-day Saints, is on the outside looking in right now.

Not only has BYU been excluded from entry into one of the Power 5 athletic conferences — the SEC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12 and ACC — but the SEC and ACC recently ruled that BYU would not even be considered a top-level program for scheduling purposes.

It’s reaching a point where BYU and its supporters need to be ready to stand up and say, “We’re not going to stand for this anymore.”

Can anyone rationally argue that BYU, based on its athletic accomplishments and other applicable merits, does not deserve to be included in the top tier of college athletics?

There is no valid argument against it.

Can anyone make an argument that BYU does not possess a top 60 athletic program or a top 60 football program?

If BYU so clearly deserves to be included, then why is it being forced below the large and ever-expanding dividing line between the Power 5 conferences in American college sports and the rest?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...out-time-to-raise-political-havoc.html?pg=all

 

[Dooley]

The ACC can't schedule them because they are too busy "playing with themselves". The SEC won't schedule them because their OOC scheduling is reserved for the likes of southern based FCS cupcakes. But the B12 and PAC has no excuse. BYU is a bigger brand than 1/2 of the B12 and PAC schools and if they are shut out from playing those conferences, havoc should ensue.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

BYU, UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Boise State, Fresno State, Houston, etc. have every right to demand incision into the top tier of college football.

We obviously can't wish our way into a higher revenue conference but to blackball these programs from even competing is absurd.

 

[noeynox]

I think the end result will be a sixth power conference comprised of schools with the resources to go all in. They may not have a vote like the p5, in changes but it will provide equal access to the national championship playoffs with no blackball scheduling. If in the future a school in that conference cant afford to go all in they could drop out. Let the schools work out their own tv deals. It would probably be less like a conference and more like an alliance with an autobid to the champion.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

This P5 thing has skated by unscrutinized by the media.
But it only take one innocent voice to point out the emperors nudity.
I'm not against divisions in sports but exclusion is a death sentence.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

@noeynox Makes too much sense. So it'll never happen!

 

[Dooley]

I think the end result will be a sixth power conference comprised of schools with the resources to go all in. They may not have a vote like the p5, in changes but it will provide equal access to the national championship playoffs with no blackball scheduling. If in the future a school in that conference cant afford to go all in they could drop out. Let the schools work out their own tv deals. It would probably be less like a conference and more like an alliance with an autobid to the champion.

IF (IF!) it gets to the point of a lawsuit, let's hypothetically say that BYU, UCONN, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, Fresno State, etc gang together to sue the P5 for a substantial jackpot. They can take the money received to fund the creation of their own TV networks and conference alignment. Call it the Leftovers League for all I care. You can find 16-20 teams left on the outside that want in and enough to separate the travel by east vs. west. Combining the best of the G5 schools into a power G5 conference of sorts. While it wouldn't be as lucrative as being in a P5 conference, it would sure beat having annual games against Tulsa and Tulane.

 

[upstater]

IF (IF!) it gets to the point of a lawsuit, let's hypothetically say that BYU, UCONN, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, Fresno State, etc gang together to sue the P5 for a substantial jackpot. They can take the money received to fund the creation of their own TV networks and conference alignment. Call it the Leftovers League for all I care. You can find 16-20 teams left on the outside that want in and enough to separate the travel by east vs. west. Combining the best of the G5 schools into a power G5 conference of sorts. While it wouldn't be as lucrative as being in a P5 conference, it would sure beat having annual games against Tulsa and Tulane.

Before they get to a lawsuit, maybe they should consider how to get the upper hand within the boundaries of the NCAA.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I think the end result will be a sixth power conference comprised of schools with the resources to go all in. They may not have a vote like the p5, in changes but it will provide equal access to the national championship playoffs with no blackball scheduling. If in the future a school in that conference cant afford to go all in they could drop out. Let the schools work out their own tv deals. It would probably be less like a conference and more like an alliance with an autobid to the champion.

More likely absorption of the malcontents.
Another conference increases competition absorption iliminates it.
That would suggest we quickly line up as one.

 

[SouthronCross]

I know Utah is the flagship school in the state, but...and maybe its just me...it seemed like BYU always had a better, deeper, and overall more successful athletic department than Utah did. Or, was I just imagining that? Because of that, I always thought that they deserved a Pac-12 invite before the Utes did.

But, at least as it was reported here in ACC country, neither Cal nor Stanford wanted anything to do with schools that have religious tie-ins. When it was proposed that some of the Big 12 merge with the Pac in 2011-2012, the idea of Baylor being one of the choices was shot down straight away. Which meant that BYU would never get a look-see, either.

Anybody here heard anything different?

PS...I don't know why the ACC would say what they did about BYU, because it makes no sense. Notre Dame has played them five times in the past 11 seasons. Ga Tech just finished a home-and-home with them in 2012 and 2013. FSU had them in 2009-2010. UVA played them last season in Charlottesville, and, will travel to Provo in 2014. Seems like ACC schools have had a good relationship with them. So, its dumb to treat them like a leper now.

 

[noeynox]

@SouthronCross, because it seems like the big ten and sec are telling the rest of the p5, how think, act and proceed. I dont mean that in a negative way either, just that the p5, is trying to create a unified front for the storm that is coming, and those two conferences seem to have taken the lead on what the p5, message should be.

 

[upstater]

I know Utah is the flagship school in the state, but...and maybe its just me...it seemed like BYU always had a better, deeper, and overall more successful athletic department than Utah did. Or, was I just imagining that? Because of that, I always thought that they deserved a Pac-12 invite before the Utes did.

But, at least as it was reported here in ACC country, neither Cal nor Stanford wanted anything to do with schools that have religious tie-ins. When it was proposed that some of the Big 12 merge with the Pac in 2011-2012, the idea of Baylor being one of the choices was shot down straight away. Which meant that BYU would never get a look-see, either.

Anybody here heard anything different?

PS...I don't know why the ACC would say what they did about BYU, because it makes no sense. Notre Dame has played them five times in the past 11 seasons. Ga Tech just finished a home-and-home with them in 2012 and 2013. FSU had them in 2009-2010. UVA played them last season in Charlottesville, and, will travel to Provo in 2014. Seems like ACC schools have had a good relationship with them. So, its dumb to treat them like a leper now.

If USC had a religious tie, it would still be in the Pac12. BYU has a different mission as a university, one that is different from Notre Dame as well. You have to keep in line with local Mormon bishops who rule the roost, and there is no autonomy. Very different from ND. More like Bob Jones. As for Baylor, it's the 4th or 5th best school in its state.

 

[metsfan2323]

BYU should have joined the AAC last year, if they did Boise, San Diego St and another Western school would likely have followed, a better TV contract would have been secured and a better case could have been made for P6...

that said it could and should still happen, better late than never.

 

[SouthronCross]

If USC had a religious tie, it would still be in the Pac12. BYU has a different mission as a university, one that is different from Notre Dame as well. You have to keep in line with local Mormon bishops who rule the roost, and there is no autonomy. Very different from ND. More like Bob Jones. As for Baylor, it's the 4th or 5th best school in its state.

Thanks, I appreciate the reply.

About Baylor, they have a lot of political pull in Texas state politics. And, those folks would have surely made life hard for the Pac to have gotten to 16 teams when that merger was proposed. Just like they did when the Big 12 was formed.

 

[SouthronCross]

@SouthronCross, because it seems like the big ten and sec are telling the rest of the p5, how think, act and proceed. I dont mean that in a negative way either, just that the p5, is trying to create a unified front for the storm that is coming, and those two conferences seem to have taken the lead on what the p5, message should be.

I didn't think to look at it that way. That would possibly explain why the ACC put out the message that they did.

I was just kind of surprised to see how the ACC was talking about a school that its members have, from all appearances, had a darn good relationship with the past decade. I did not like the fact that they were kicking them while they were down.

 

[Dooley]

I would take 1 BYU over 100 Utahs for my P5 conference, thank you very much. Other than Urban Meyer's brief stint there, nothing stands out about Utah athletics.

 

[noeynox]

@Dooley, your selling Utah short. They beat Alabama in a bcs bowl under their current coach whittingham. Utah has a solid program, but byu deserves in no matter what.

 

[Dooley]

@Dooley, your selling Utah short. They beat Alabama in a bcs bowl under their current coach whittingham. Utah has a solid program, but byu deserves in no matter what.

Perhaps you're right, I went too far with my 1 vs. 100 trade-off. I'll trim it down to saying I'd take BYU over Utah if I ran my own P5 conference. BYU has more history than Utah, but more importantly, they have also been very good the last few years. It wouldn't be a case of adding a school just because they've played football for 100 years, albeit at the bottom third of their conference more often than not. They've had past and recent success as a program and have some very accomplished alumni (Utah has a few too but I'd take Steve Young over Alex Smith 100x out of 100). They also have a very good sized national following (I think larger than Utah's).

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm surprised Utah has found a P5 home while BYU dwindles with us on a limb from the tree of G5 despair. BYU and UCONN. Those are the two most absolute baffling omissions from the P5 model.

 

[SouthronCross]

Perhaps you're right, I went too far with my 1 vs. 100 trade-off. I'll trim it down to saying I'd take BYU over Utah if I ran my own P5 conference. BYU has more history than Utah, but more importantly, they have also been very good the last few years. It wouldn't be a case of adding a school just because they've played football for 100 years, albeit at the bottom third of their conference more often than not. They've had past and recent success as a program and have some very accomplished alumni (Utah has a few too but I'd take Steve Young over Alex Smith 100x out of 100). They also have a very good sized national following (I think larger than Utah's).

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm surprised Utah has found a P5 home while BYU dwindles with us on a limb from the tree of G5 despair. BYU and UCONN. Those are the two most absolute baffling omissions from the P5 model.

Utah caught the break of a lifetime by getting that Pac-12 lifeline.

They're only in the league because the proposed Pac-12/Big 12 merger got torpedoed by Texas. Otherwise, they'd be in the same predicament BYU is in.

 

[billybud]

BYU was a boring opponent for us Nole guys...played them in 2009 and 2010 in a H&H...beat them by an average of 25 points (and 2009 saw the worst Nole team in 35 years).

Played them an additional two games in the past...one was a 26 point margin win and the other was a 16 point margin.

But, saying that, FSU has given BYU the opportunity to show their stuff.

Since 1990...BYU has won 33% of their games with the ACC, 17% with the Big Ten, 39% with the PAC 12 and does not have a winning record against any P5 conference.

 

[Fishy]

I suspect most of the ACC has a losing record against the P5 and doesn't have nearly the fan base that Brigham Young has, so let's stop pretending that matters.

 

[itgoeslike]

By the numbers: ACC football has struggled in nonconference games
ESPN, May 22, 2014

But while the ACC played a fair number of tough nonconference games, it didn’t exactly perform particularly well in them.

In fact, going back five years to the 2009 season, the numbers are pretty bleak.

The 11 current ACC members who have been a part of the conference since 2009 have played a total of 73 regular-season, nonconference games against Power 5 teams. Their combined record is a dismal 22-51 (.301).

Here’s how bad it actually is:

• Three of those 22 wins actually came against Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville when those programs were not part of the ACC.

• Seven more wins came against Vandy, Kansas, Rutgers and Indiana — hardly traditional powers despite their conference affiliations.

• No ACC team has a winning record in nonconference, regular-season games against Power 5 teams during that span. The team that has performed the best during that stretch is North Carolina, which is 3-3.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/95261/by-the-numbers-nonconference-scheduling

 

[billybud]

Just shows you just how BAD BYU is...to have a .333 record against the ACC since 1990...

And to be absolutely dominated by FSU....even in the year that FSU had their worst record and worst stats in 35 years....

FSU has been lucky enough to have the longest consecutive year bowl winning streak with six and counting....Against WVU, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Notre Dame. NIU, and Auburn.

The ACC isn't that great in football...although Clemson surely dominated Ohio State and FSU won the NC last year....but BYU can't post a winning record against even the ACC..

 

[billybud]

Since Jimbo became head coach,,,

FSU is 5-1 against the SEC

That is the OOC that we care about....

 

[itgoeslike]

Just shows you just how BAD BYU is...to have a .333 record against the ACC since 1990...

And to be absolutely dominated by FSU....even in the year that FSU had their worst record and worst stats in 35 years....

FSU has been lucky enough to have the longest consecutive year bowl winning streak with six and counting....Against WVU, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Notre Dame. NIU, and Auburn.

The ACC isn't that great in football...although Clemson surely dominated Ohio State and FSU won the NC last year....but BYU can't post a winning record against even the ACC..

Since 1990?! It looks like BYU went 5-8 against the ACC in that time period. The ACC definitely won more games but was hardly dominant.

The following article claims:

In three years of independence, BYU has beaten six teams currently in power leagues, including Texas. In the last 10 years, that number climbs to 19, including Oklahoma. In the last 25, they've beaten 44 power-conference teams, including SEC-approved and ACC-partnered Notre Dame, twice.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/5/13/5711948/byu-football-sec-acc-schedule

Can any ACC team make a similar claim? Maybe, but I can't imagine the number exceeds 1 or 2. Just keeping it real. . .