USMNT Falling | The Boneyard

USMNT Falling

If you watched the US Mexico game, the first thing you'd notice is that the team looks frantic. There is no organization. No buildup. Just running around like chickens with their heads cut off. And that was always going to favor Mexico.

But what did anyone expect with Berhalter??? All I can hope for is his removal before it's too late...
 
The U.S. will continue to struggle in soccer as long as our best athletes choose to play basketball, football, and baseball ahead of soccer. It’s really that simple.
 
CTBballfan243 said:
The U.S. will continue to struggle in soccer as long as our best athletes choose to play basketball, football, and baseball ahead of soccer. It’s really that simple.
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It’s not actually. This is the moronic take of idiots on a barstool somewhere sucking down wings that don’t have a clue. The process of becoming a great soccer player is different. That process doesn’t really exist on the scale that we need it.

We also have business interests of the Federation and MLS that are structural barriers to optimal performance.
 
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The USMNT blows. I hate them.

Ruined more pleasant afternoon viewings than I care to mention.
 
ZooCougar said:
We also have business interests of the Federation and MLS that are structural barriers to optimal performance.
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Might as well just say it. Our system sucks. Too many fiefdoms and infighting. People care about the big picture only if they are a part of it.

I'm not certain it can (will) be fixed.
 
ZooCougar said:
It’s not actually. This is the moronic take of idiots on a barstool somewhere sucking down wings that don’t have a clue. The process of becoming a great soccer player is different. That process doesn’t really exist on the scale that we need it.

We also have business interests of the Federation and MLS that are structural barriers to optimal performance.
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This was not a "take", it's my opinion. I didn't realize I needed your approval. If the best athletes in the U.S. decided to play soccer we would have one of the best teams in the world. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, our best athletes play basketball, football, baseball, and hockey.
 
CTBballfan243 said:
This was not a "take", it's my opinion. I didn't realize I needed your approval. If the best athletes in the U.S. decided to play soccer we would have one of the best teams in the world. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, our best athletes play basketball, football, baseball, and hockey.
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Unfortunately that’s not the way it works. Lionel Messi would never be considered a top athlete in the US. He would have been overlooked over and over again.

It’s just not as simple as getting the best athletes to play. There has to be a system to identify and support them.

Our best players need to go to Europe to develop in their mid teens because of this. And unless their parents can relocate or if the kid has a European passport then those players are largely out of luck.

If what you were suggesting actually happened then we would have a bunch of really big and fast guys with terrible ball skills.

Here is a fun fact: Did you know that clubs like Arsenal and Bayern Munich have more paid scouts in the US than our own Federation has on its entire payroll?
 
CTBballfan243 said:
This was not a "take", it's my opinion. I didn't realize I needed your approval. If the best athletes in the U.S. decided to play soccer we would have one of the best teams in the world. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, our best athletes play basketball, football, baseball, and hockey.
Expand ...

Unfortunately,the game of soccer isn't dominated by the most athletic guys. Sure you have to be a good athlete, but size and strength aren't the Paramount concerns. Messi is one of the best playera in history while being 5'3 and 140lbs speaking wet.

If it was about being the best pure athlete, some of those African teams would have dominated.

What we don't have is the same respective skil development. Guys overseas haha far more pure skill, because they play against better guys, in better, more cohesive, more well funded systems from a young age.

We also don't have the guettos/favellas of places like South America to forge talent by fire, so to speak. Most of Brazil's national team grows up playing on dirt patches in bare feet.
 
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ZooCougar said:
Unfortunately that’s not the way it works. Lionel Messi would never be considered a top athlete in the US. He would have been overlooked over and over again.

It’s just not as simple as getting the best athletes to play. There has to be a system to identify and support them.

Our best players need to go to Europe to develop in their mid teens because of this. And unless their parents can relocate or if the kid has a European passport then those players are largely out of luck.

If what you were suggesting actually happened then we would have a bunch of really big and fast guys with terrible ball skills.

Here is a fun fact: Did you know that clubs like Arsenal and Bayern Munich have more paid scouts in the US than our own Federation has on its entire payroll?
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1 minute behind you with the Messi example. Show off.

You missed out on my favela call tho haha
 
ZooCougar said:
Our best players need to go to Europe to develop in their mid teens because of this. And unless their parents can relocate or if the kid has a European passport then those players are largely out of luck.
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Meanwhile, Euro kids are getting identified at age 6 and funneled into the man U:s of the world .
 
intlzncster said:
Meanwhile, Euro kids are getting identified at age 6 and funneled into the man U:s of the world .
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Yeah they are on pro environments at a very early age. Unless you are a prodigy like Pulisic, Donovan and Dempsey if you don’t get that then you are behind the power curve.
 
intlzncster said:
Unfortunately,the game of soccer isn't dominated by the most athletic guys. Sure you have to be a good athlete, but size and strength aren't the Paramount concerns. Messi is one of the best playera in history while being 5'3 and 140lbs speaking wet.

If it was about being the best pure athlete, some of those African teams would have dominated.

What we don't have is the same respective skil development. Guys overseas haha far more pure skill, because they play against better guys, in better, more cohesive, more well funded systems from a young age.

We also don't have the guettos/favellas of places like South America to forge talent by fire, so to speak. Most of Brazil's national team grows up playing on dirt patches in bare feet.
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Good points. There are some advantages that Europe will have that we will never have. Like density for example, how many pro clubs are in London including The Football League and Non League?

We will never have that. The Chelsea U-12s can play for weeks against top academies and never leave London.

Our MLS Academies play against Pay to Play academies that aren’t the same quality. They just don’t get the same reps.
 
ZooCougar said:
Yeah they are on pro environments at a very early age. Unless you are a prodigy like Pulisic, Donovan and Dempsey if you don’t get that then you are behind the power curve.
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And they'd then fail to develop players like Matthijs de Ligt, one of the best young defenders in the world, but a late bloomer.
 
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Our defense as a unit is terrible, including the 6 and the GK.

But, I'm on record as making every decision about 2026. Most of the older MLS players were sidelined this cycle. That alone is worthy of praise. Now, if we can all agree that Zardes is not the 9 we need then we can move on.

I'm pretty comfortable in a 4-2-3-1 with CP, Boyd, and Arriola as the 3 in front of McKennie in the midfield. Morales is the best looking 6 we've seen in a while if not in skill level but in Jermaine Jones attitude kind of way.

I want to go with Dest at LB for a while in only because he isn't Tim Ream, Robinson can get some run too. The rest of the back line needs to get a lot better. The better WC runs were built as much on solid CB play as anything.

Sargent needs to start at forward every game until he shows he can't do it. It's criminally stupid to continue to play guys you know can't score goals that require more than just tap ins.
 
intlzncster said:
Unfortunately,the game of soccer isn't dominated by the most athletic guys. Sure you have to be a good athlete, but size and strength aren't the Paramount concerns. Messi is one of the best playera in history while being 5'3 and 140lbs speaking wet.

If it was about being the best pure athlete, some of those African teams would have dominated.

What we don't have is the same respective skil development. Guys overseas haha far more pure skill, because they play against better guys, in better, more cohesive, more well funded systems from a young age.

We also don't have the guettos/favellas of places like South America to forge talent by fire, so to speak. Most of Brazil's national team grows up playing on dirt patches in bare feet.
Expand ...
Actually, while still not up to world class levels, our technical skills have developed leaps and bounds. And we've always been athletically on par with the world (that was basically our calling card for years). But what still holds us way back (and will hold the women back eventually also) is our naivety tactically. That's where we are way off the pace. And running through Coaches who've only known MLS or college isn't going to fix the problem.
 
meyers7 said:
Actually, while still not up to world class levels, our technical skills have developed leaps and bounds. And we've always been athletically on par with the world (that was basically our calling card for years).

But what still holds us way back (and will hold the women back eventually also) is our naivety tactically. That's where we are way off the pace. And running through Coaches who've only known MLS or college isn't going to fix the problem.
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It may have improved, but we are still way off the mark. We rarely ever turn out those 'creative genius' type of players that are found in other countries. Just looking at guys on the ball, removing tactics as best you can, it's so easy to see the difference between a US player and a guy playing in Europe. The fluidity, the instinct, the touch, the finishing...

I mean, if our guys were there technically, they'd all be playing in the top leagues. They aren't even close as a group.

That said, I don't disagree with most of your post.
 
CTBballfan243 said:
The U.S. will continue to struggle in soccer as long as our best athletes choose to play basketball, football, and baseball ahead of soccer. It’s really that simple.
Expand ...

The best soccer player in the world is 5'6" and weighs 150 pounds.

If he were born in the USA, I don't think he'd be playing football or basketball. He'd be playing soccer.
 
I watched the whole game and I'm optimistic.

But I agree with those highly concerned about the defense and GKs, and that includes anyone playing the #6.

Even Dest had a pretty low work rate tracking back.

He may be more suited for RM, at the end of the day.
 
.-.
CTBballfan243 said:
This was not a "take", it's my opinion. I didn't realize I needed your approval. If the best athletes in the U.S. decided to play soccer we would have one of the best teams in the world. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, our best athletes play basketball, football, baseball, and hockey.
Expand ...
Your opinion can't be more wrong
You and others who sing this tune don't know the personnel that play on the national teams from the U-17 and up. Many are fantastic multi faceted athletes that could or have excelled at multiple sports. They play soccer for the love of the game. Americans are spoiled with a variety of sports that pay huge dollars to those who participate so it's only natural that most would migrate to those sports. If the rest of the world had baseball leagues and American football leagues that paid more on average vs the soccer leagues - it would most likely mirror what is happening in the USA.
I coached soccer for nearly 30 years up to the college level and many of my players were actually proficient at dribbling and shooting a basketball or pitching/hitting a baseball and many could be doing that at a very high level if they chose.
You don't need approval to express your opinion here but if you do, there will be others who have more experience/knowledge in that area and will retort your opine.
 
meyers7 said:
Actually, while still not up to world class levels, our technical skills have developed leaps and bounds. And we've always been athletically on par with the world (that was basically our calling card for years). But what still holds us way back (and will hold the women back eventually also) is our naivety tactically. That's where we are way off the pace. And running through Coaches who've only known MLS or college isn't going to fix the problem.
Expand ...
Its not entirely on the recent coaches of the Mens National team for the gap of tactical proficiency of the players. That rests with the caliber of coaching that American players receive from U-8 through the U-18 ranks. These coaches are technically inclined because these players in the USA aren't born with a soccer ball in their crib and don't have fathers/parents who know the game of soccer. The level of technical skills are something that coaches in the USA inherit are way behind what that same coach in Europe or South America would enjoy.
But you are correct - the Americans are tactically behind most of the soccer powers because that training and education has not been the emphasis as they progressed when younger
 
Tonight's game against possibly a better Uruguay (although no Cavani or Suarez), the USA is without Pulisic, McKennie, and Steffen. Luckily Trapp and Zardes are still with the team. :rolleyes: This could be pretty brutal.

Maybe, maybe, we'll get to see Sargent and Pomykal play.
 
meyers7 said:
Maybe, maybe, we'll get to see Sargent and Pomykal play.
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would've liked to see more than 7min for Pomykal - Josh looked OK - I was impressed with Yueill in the 6, he looked much better than Trapp ever has there (not saying much) - Mexico got smacked by Argentina.. you just hate to see it.

on to the nations league..
 
CToutlaw34 said:
would've liked to see more than 7min for Pomykal - Josh looked OK - I was impressed with Yueill in the 6, he looked much better than Trapp ever has there (not saying much) - Mexico got smacked by Argentina.. you just hate to see it.

on to the nations league..
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Very different game yesterday than Friday. Uruguay played it like a Friendly. Didn't seem real interested. As opposed to the pressing Mexico. Although we looked better last night, hard to compare the two games. Our back line/GK were not pressed like Mexico did to us. But agree Yueill looked a lot better than Trapp did. Not sure if it's because of the difference in Mexico and Uruguay or the difference in Trapp and Yueill. Probably a little of both.
 
CTBballfan243 said:
The U.S. will continue to struggle in soccer as long as our best athletes choose to play basketball, football, and baseball ahead of soccer. It’s really that simple.
Expand ...

Don't disagree with the soccerheads - as you've seen, they can't possibly ever be wrong.

It's really not that hard, guys - even with the "identification" and "Messi" examples, it's the same answer - the more who play (and continue to play) soccer, the better the US product becomes. Lots play, fewer stay, and they move on to other sports. Maybe putting "athletes" confuses some, but it's really just a numbers game.
 
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