CL82
NCAA Woman's Basketball National Champions
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The time differential will always be a handicap to them.
USC @ UCLA tonite
- Thread starter Tonyc
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MooseJaw
Bullmoose#1
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Ouch, no bragging for you.
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
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L$U beat State early in the season
WBBTakeover
WHO CAN GUARD TESSA???!!!!
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Yes, this felt like more of a team win. Having Marshall and Akunwafo to go along with Kiki and JuJu's helpside defense makes Southern Cal the team that is best equipped to shut down UCLA (Lauren Betts).
Understood
Love Curry too, but he only dragged his team to Elite 8.
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I think UCLA ought to be a great team. I'm just not persuaded they are one. They had a good win against SC early, and decent wins against MD and tOSU midseason. But otherwise they haven't been really challenged by anyone other than USC, and faced with those challenges they wilted. That's not a talent issue, or even necessarily a coaching failure (though it could be), but a player motivation problem.
The real question is, how does USC keep doing this to them? Yes, Juju and Kiki played very tough -- not perfect games, but tough ones. Kiki also found the range on her midrange turnaround jumper, which is a pretty devastating move when it's working for her. More importantly, I think, USC played tougher defense than UCLA did. They were scrappier, chased down loose balls more effectively, and generally seemed to want it more. You can't coach this sort of tenacity, though you can recruit for it. And I'd say USC has been playing this way most of the year. Against UConn, this is what they did for the entire first half.
There are definitely flaws in the way Coach Gottlieb has built this team, starting with the over dependence on two players for the bulk of the scoring. If Juju sits, the offense screeches to a halt. But her rotation goes 9 deep and the freshmen play as tough on defense as anyone else. Heckel, Smith, Samuels and Howell deserve a lot of credit for the work they do on defense. I can't really say the same for UCLA. Jones, Arnisalo and Jaquez are all I can point to, and only one is a freshman.
Just an observation: KK and Ash could probably start or get major minutes for either of these teams, and UCLA would be better for having players like them.
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USC also had a season best game from Van Oelhoffen. Kennedy Smith has really blossomed too.
Akunwafo can actually guard Betts one on one!
JuJu help defense is good. She's big enough to offer regular defense, and her quick hands lead to steals and tie ups.
UCLA twice ground their way back into the game but first JuJu, and second Iriafen shut down any comeback plans.
Another great game for WBB, what a season!
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I was pulling for UCLA, but USC was just too much in the end. That 2nd quarter blitz by USC was the factor and UCLA never recovered. Plus you could see USC wanted it more. Body language. The hustle plays. USC just had that fight in them. The scary part, they are going to face each other again in the Big Ten tournament game, unless something odd happens.
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Yes. But a sellout with stars is a good sign
bballnut90
LV Adherent. Topic Crafter
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Paige isn't in the mix for POY this season. It's a 3 horse race between Hidalgo, Juju and Betts. Honestly there's a strong case for all 3:
Hidalgo-monster showings in big games this year, though she's cooled off to finish the season and Notre Dame isn't in position for a #1 seed. Still her stats are top tier and she's been considered the front runner for most of the season. Has outplayed Booker, Bueckers and Watkins head to head.
Juju-she isn't as efficient but her impact on both ends can't be denied. When she's on and at her best, I think she's the best player in the country. Her performances against UCLA were brilliant and she had a great showing vs. UCONN too. She's a streaky shooter/scorer but USC is likely in position for the #2 overall seed right now and her numbers are very good. Definitely a strong contender.
Betts-she's the clear standout post player this season. 20/10, 3 assists and 3 blocks shooting 62% from the floor is POY worthy.
I wouldn't be upset with any of the 3. All 3 impact the game in a huge way on both ends of the court. We'll see what conference tournaments bring but this is the most open POY race in a long time.
bballnut90
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NC State, Tennessee twice, Oklahoma and Kentucky is a very strong collection of wins. I think they have better wins than anyone outside of the top 7, not to mention better wins than UCONN and arguably better wins than UCLA has.
I don't think the committee factors in margin of victory/losses, but their only losses are road games to South Carolina and Texas (both games were competitive) and an OT loss at a decent Alabama team. I think they're safely on the 2 line unless they lose today and prior to the semis of the SEC Tournament.
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2 things stuck out to me, well, actually 3. One; why was Betts a non-factor? The ball should have gone into her a minimum of once per set. Two; JuJu is heads and shoulders above anyone in WCBB (and I'm a huge Paige fan, sorry) and three; there were many empty seats in the stands, especially in the lower sections along the sidelines.
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nwhoopfan
hopeless West Coast homer
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The ball went into her and she was ineffective. USC did a good job on her defensively. She's had a great season, but last night she reminded me of some of the misgivings I had about her earlier in her career. Fairly limited repertoire of moves. She also seemed to get frustrated fairly quickly and took herself out of the game. She had as many TOs as made buckets.
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That stood out to me last night as well. Instead of playing through it and forcing the refs hands to finally make a call, she seemed to resign herself to how USC was defending her.
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Sabreena wrote a great article critiquing UCLA last night. Was all about the mental weakness and structural failures. Familiar demons haunt UCLA in another loss to USC
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I don't think Paige is going to win NPOY this time around, and neither will Sarah Strong. But I don't see the other 3 (Betts Watkins Hidalgo) as head and shoulders above either of them. I'm only thinking about Win Shares just now -- don't worry, I know there's no requirement that this be a determining factor. But it's not a bad thumbnail for eyeballing likelihoods. And Paige and Sarah lead all three of them in this stat. Other stats, more misleading ones, are likely to determine in favor of Hannah or Juju.
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Sarah is just amazing. If the women’s game were the same as the men's and freshman were eligible to go pro, I think Sarah might be the first pick this year. Yes, Paige is a proven commodity, but Sarah is that good. Can’t imagine how good she will be in three years.
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I agree but I also they think don't get her in a multitude of ways- for a big like her, you can -
1. Catch her rolling to basket off a screen
2. Get her Iso'd on the block off an inverted wing with your best three-point shooters
3. Do a pass, repass, post and repost (which they tried)
4. Do set plays where 3 point shooters shoot intentionally and allow her to offensive rebound.
Close has restricted her to the paint and if she is she needs to Monica Czinano her and tell her not to dribble because she travelled everytime she felt pressure against USC. You either do one or the other. But I think using her as a decoy was better, she is a terrific passer.
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Just saw a bit of the press conference for UCLA. Cori Close was tight! Im a hypocrite, I love the game meaning a lot but it's like someone's dog died. Guess I can't have it both ways. But I kinda just think USC is a bad matchup. Kiki Rice kinda underperformed. But the press conference was talking about grit and heart. I just saw Juju at least in the first half just being great. Theres not an equalizer to that.
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
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Came across this cool pic
Ann Meyers Drysdale and Denise Curry are the only two women who have had their jerseys retired at UCLA. Both attend many home games. A Reggie Miller sighting at either Men's or Women's games is much rarer, though he and Cheryl will make appearances together. The UCLA Women's Basketball Alumni attendance has been quite strong in general for some years now. They don't usually call attention to themselves, but you can tell that the informal networking is very strong.
Regarding Betts, you will notice that Betts will (1) roll off the screen, but will rarely get the pass in motion. 2 and 3 will happen quite a lot. 4 doesn't happen enough, possibly to create space for a shooter by clearing space close to the basket for the threat of a drive to cause the defender to sag off the shooter.
Frankly, Betts, though improving, doesn't have the best (biggest?) hands. She's perfectly capable of making a good target and catching a pass from a static position, but handling something in transition (from high to low post, or cutting diagonally) is much more of a crapshoot. She's clearly gotten better at this over her career, and, as you mentioned, her passing can also be impressive.
In this game, USC had three competent post players to burn fouls with, along with assorted other players, and were clearly trying to frustrate her with physical defense. This clearly was effective. Subjectively, the refs called quite a lot of these fouls early in the game, causing a sizable foul differential in UCLA's favor, but started to ignore some of the physical post play when it might have seemed like they (the refs) were going to decide the game. As well, UCLA started playing Betts in the high post later in the game, which opened the middle for drives but eliminated Betts from the offense.
WBBTakeover
WHO CAN GUARD TESSA???!!!!
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Are you suggesting that they (the refs) made questionable/ticky tack calls in favor of other UCLA players while allowing USC's posts to be more physical with Betts than what should've been allowed (i.e., effectively masking their true intentions)? Because that would suggest that they fixed the game--and I don't think we want to go there.
No. I think they were trying to be "fair" by not calling post fouls on USC on every possession. You could just as easily say that refs would get "tired" of calling Betts for 3 seconds on every possession. I don't think that referees, in general, are ever trying to do anything but make sure that a game is played fairly. But, they are human and respond to suggestion, perception, the crowd, etc. A natural part of a coach's job is to "work the refs" and complain about calls... because refs are human and they can be influenced.
My perception during this game was that Betts was getting "manhandled" in the low post throughout the game. (I think that most skilled posts take a lot more "allowed" abuse than guards do) I don't think that the level of physical play changed much when Betts was in the low post. It changed when she was in the high post, certainly. But, the calls stopped coming as the game went on. I speculate that the reason for that is that calling 15 fouls on USC posts doesn't feel fair to an officiating crew. UCLA has specifically tried playing Betts in such a way that she doesn't foul... she's too valuable on offense. So, the post fouls in almost all UCLA games are pretty lopsided. That's not going to feel "fair" to refs after awhile.
If you could ever get a "robot ref" in basketball, in the way that baseball will be trying out a system to call balls and strikes, it would change game play quite a bit. Not because human refs aren't fair, but because they try to be fair by making things as equal as possible... even when they aren't equal.
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nwhoopfan
hopeless West Coast homer
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I've been wanting this for most of my life!