USA-Opals! | Page 10 | The Boneyard

USA-Opals!

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OneTrickPony said:
Geno's adjustments were effective against Cambage...no doubt aided by her lack of conditioning
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I hope UConn's post players were watching at home and learned a lesson from this game. If you are going to be gassed, do it at your local Exxon station!
 
Justavisitor said:
As you stated, that is your observation. However, those that have coached her don't share those same sentiments. There is no way a non-committed player can grab that many rebounds and block that many shots in the professional game. Stats don't support what you state and neither do her many coaches.
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No one is really saying Candace isn't a great player. The "coaches and others" you refer to have let her be much more perimeter oriented in her offense. In the WNBA, she has more of a face up game that includes shooting from the 3-point line. Geno does not want her playing that way on the US National team since Fowles and Charles are the only 2 centers on the team, and that means Catch, Parker, and Jones are the only other interior players with size.

Parker lost her starting spot to Moore, something I bet Tennessee fans went bonkers over, but she responded in the following games with her most complete performances of the Olympics. I saw several games where Parker decided to bring the ball up the court (instead of dishing if off to a guard) and took a few perimeter shots. This was before she was benched. The message obviously was "you are not a guard, nor are you a wing". At least not on this team. They have Moore, McCaughtry, and Augustus to play that role.

I will agree that some of Candace's strengths lie in what she does out on the perimeter - especially for her size, but the others i mentioned are better ball handlers and better perimeter shooters so Team USA has needed her to play in the post and use her strengths and gifts there.

Candace has been an important part of the team. The scoring load has been incredibly spread out and Moore, Taurasi, Catch, Augustus, McCaughtry, Charles and Whalen have all been among the top team scorers on any given day.

In fact, of the top 10 players, Bird at 5.4 to Taurasi at 12.9 PPG represents a fairly low spread for the top 10 scoring players on the team. very spread out scoring. No superstars on the team, and a great example of team basketball which is, after all, what Geno wanted all along.
 
Justavisitor said:
As you stated, that is your observation. However, those that have coached her don't share those same sentiments. There is no way a non-committed player can grab that many rebounds and block that many shots in the professional game. Stats don't support what you state and neither do her many coaches.
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It is those who have coached her who have let her cheat her talent. I didn't say she wasn't committed to everything, i said she isn't committed to the work needed to play in the post and to play physical D. If you can't see what I'm talking about on defense bringing in others isn't going to impress me. Candace was most likely moved to coming off the bench exactly because of her unwillingness to get tough against players in the post and play interior D, including players like Cambage and Jackson. Maya Moore did it willingly and she doesn't have Parker's size but she has three times Parker's will. It is about having the will to make the effort nothing else. It is one thing to struggle to be effective doing something and something else to not even try.mParker simply doesn't have the will. It is obvious. She is awesomely talented I can't imagine how good she could be if she had Tina's or Maya's heart.
 
ladybears4eva said:
and really... i doubt that Jones or Cash get any minutes in a game this close.....

what a waste of spots...

i know we could have used Dupree, Brunson, or any tough minded player..... to bang in the paint...rebound and secure the ball better. and play better defense
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Wow....just wow
 
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Justavisitor said:
LLL said "TOO LIGHT" and that's a far cry from liking physicality. Some match ups are simply ba match ups, but that has nothing to do with what a player likes to do. CP3 gets to the line often, more often than most, and that's because she initates the contact. Players that initiate contact and get to the line are physical players that don't shy away from contact. Players like Tina and Big Syl have a stronger base and better ability to push players like Cambage out of the paint. That's why some players are defensive backs while other players are line backers...physical make up...but both like being physical.


Liz Cambage weighs 214
Fowles weighs 200
Tina weighs 198
Candace weighs 175
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F Asjha Jones.........6'3"...196

F Candice Dupree......6'2"...175
F Sophia Young........6'1"...165
F Rebekkah Brunson....6'2"...185

..............So does Asjha Jones, which is exactly the reason I predicted the Committee would pick her as the 12th player *for this particular team*. Brunson is almost as big as Asjha (6'2" 185), and she is strong, so I'd bet it came down to those two.

USA Bball historically worries about having enough depth in the middle, precisely to get through the one or possibly two really tough, big teams they will likely face on the path to the gold. The last few Olympics, it has been Australia. What does Australia have in 2012? Cambage and LJ. At the 12th spot, the Committee didn't necessarily need a big time scorer, or an all-around stat stuffer, or anything in particular other than someone who was experienced at the international level and who could bang in the paint when called upon to do so. We saw today that Asjha was able to contribute some good minutes and was generally able to root Cambage and occasionally LJ out of their preferred deep positions. Did she dominate or take over the game? Obviously not, she just did what they needed her to do as a reserve--nothing more--to help win this game. Her strong base and her body weight make a difference here, just as you pointed out that it does for Tina and Syl. She mixed it up well, gave solid defensive minutes in the trenches and played with the poise you'd expect.

And I agree that CP3 doesn't shy away from contact in general. She just isn't quite as good at 'rooting out' really big posts as some others are. I think she'll have a big game against France.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Exactly. Liz is big and 6'8". She is at least 240.
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Closer to 300, IMO. She is huge, and strong, with skills, but I knew her conditioning would be a factor in this game.
 
alexrgct said:
O/U on posts the poster you quoted will have on here after Griner graduates: 0.5. I'd take the under.
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I've been a fan for the last 12 years, and I will be a fan forever. I'm not shy about my opinion.
 
ladybears4eva said:
I've been a fan for the last 12 years, and I will be a fan forever. I'm not shy about my opinion.
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No problem with not being shy about your opinions. But your opinion on Jones was obviously very poorly informed, so you might want to be a little more careful, to save yourself some embarrassment in the future.
 
speedoo said:
Closer to 300, IMO. She is huge, and strong, with skills, but I knew her conditioning would be a factor in this game.
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That would be 270+. Could be. Definitely well over 210, by a couple of stone. :)
 
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Cambage does have the world convinced that she is between 97 and 101 kg. I found a variety of weights between those parameters.
 
ladybears4eva said:
I've been a fan for the last 12 years, and I will be a fan forever. I'm not shy about my opinion.
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"and really... i doubt that Jones or Cash get any minutes in a game this close....."

Perhaps you might want to make room for fact in your opine...Jones played effective minutes in the game.

What do you take with your crow?
 
Icebear said:
It is those who have coached her who have let her cheat her talent. I didn't say she wasn't committed to everything, i said she isn't committed to the work needed to play in the post and to play physical D. If you can't see what I'm talking about on defense bringing in others isn't going to impress me. Candace was most likely moved to coming off the bench exactly because of her unwillingness to get tough against players in the post and play interior D, including players like Cambage and Jackson. Maya Moore did it willingly and she doesn't have Parker's size but she has three times Parker's will. It is about having the will to make the effort nothing else. It is one thing to struggle to be effective doing something and something else to not even try.mParker simply doesn't have the will. It is obvious. She is awesomely talented I can't imagine how good she could be if she had Tina's or Maya's heart.
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Actually I believe Geno said Parker was moved to the bench because Catchings prefers to play the 4 instead of the 3. So you bring in Moore in to play the 3 and move Catchings to the 4. Also Maya brings more energy to start the game. Already have McCaughtry to bring energy off the bench. Personally I think bringing Parker and Fowles off the bench is pretty devastating to the opposition.
 
meyers7 said:
Actually I believe Geno said Parker was moved to the bench because Catchings prefers to play the 4 instead of the 3. So you bring in Moore in to play the 3 and move Catchings to the 4. Also Maya brings more energy to start the game. Already have McCaughtry to bring energy off the bench. Personally I think bringing Parker and Fowles off the bench is pretty devastating to the opposition.
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Either way doesn't change the fact that both Maya and Catchings bodied up Cambage and Jackson far more than did Parker.
 
Icebear said:
Either way doesn't change the fact that both Maya and Catchings bodied up Cambage and Jackson far more than did Parker.
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She tried...she just hasn't spent the time in the weight room to pull it off...she's not just light, she doesn't have the upper body strength to finish plays in the paint against bigger women. Angel McCoughtry has been a much better finisher in this Olympics than Candace has...if she wants to stop cheating her talent, she needs to get in the gym and gain some strength.

Cambage is even worse. She was single-handedly keeping the Opals in the game in the first half, but she ran out of gas quickly. She flamed out in the first half, and was a shadow of herself in the second. A good strength and conditioning coach could turn her into a monster, but she clearly isn't putting in the work.

The difference between the Michael Jordans of the world and these two athletes is that Michael did the conditioning to maximize his talent. I think Geno understands this better than anyone coaching today.
 
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Icebear said:
Either way doesn't change the fact that both Maya and Catchings bodied up Cambage and Jackson far more than did Parker.
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Well yea, doesn't have anything to do with it.
 
meyers7 said:
Actually I believe Geno said Parker was moved to the bench because Catchings prefers to play the 4 instead of the 3. So you bring in Moore in to play the 3 and move Catchings to the 4. Also Maya brings more energy to start the game. Already have McCaughtry to bring energy off the bench. Personally I think bringing Parker and Fowles off the bench is pretty devastating to the opposition.
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I don't think the change was about Catchings' preference as it was Geno's to insert another perimeter shooter in the starting lineup to spread the offense (and defenses) out a little bit. I don't doubt that Catch feels more comfortable with the change but the move was more tactical than simply satisfying her preference. Catch, Tina and Parker were more or less tripping over each other in the post.
 
UConnCat said:
I don't think the change was about Catchings' preference as it was Geno's to insert another perimeter shooter in the starting lineup to spread the offense (and defenses) out a little bit. I don't doubt that Catch feels more comfortable with the change but the move was more tactical than simply satisfying her preference. Catch, Tina and Parker were more or less tripping over each other in the post.
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I also think it had something to do with Sylvia being injured - for those games USA had two players with height - Tina and CP3. Having them on the floor at the same time to start games was a little bit of a gamble if they were both to pick up early fouls. And CP3 thrived coming off the bench and the USA played better to start games so it worked so why change it.
I think CP3 has played great in most games. AUS was always going to be a tough match-up for her. And some body types just have a really hard time putting on muscle, and with CP3's game, adding more muscle might detract from some of the things she does. I believe we at Uconn are about to experience the same issue with Stewart - she will get stronger here, but you are never going to turn her into a Tina or Sylvia - same with Griner - she is clearly stronger, but she is still very thin and probably always will be. Cambage would have been moving her around as if she wasn't on the court. Griner's height would have been the only thing that might have made her effective.
 
Candace did not go up strong against Brazil in D.C. or against Australia last night. She tried fall-aways last night and took herself out of rebounding position. On one open-court possession, she took one of her patented flip shots and made it. I cheered big time. But she could not even try that when that huge interior defense was set. The Opals were a tough matchup for her.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Candace did not go up strong against Brazil in D.C. or against Australia last night. She tried fall-aways last night and took herself out of rebounding position. On one open-court possession, she took one of her patented flip shots and made it. I cheered big time. But she could not even try that when that huge interior defense was set. The Opals were a tough matchup for her.
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I rewatched the second half online (w/ the Aussie announcers) and noticed a few things:

  • There was a time in the 3rd Q (~ 4-5 mins left) when Candace and Syl were in and on two occasions allowed Aus to grab some loose balls w/out diving for the ball. The Aussie announcers talked about The Aussies playing with more heart. Tina and Asjha were then put in the game and things changed.
  • After Siemone scored on the play Geno drew up you can see Geno and Dee exchange a hand-slap.
  • In addition to playing tough D on LJ, Asjha set a great screen for Seimone who drained the jumper.
  • The announcers talked about Tina with words like "wonderful game," "superb," "the next Lisa Leslie," and she's only 23 years old. Nice.
  • Seimone Augustus played some terrific D in the 2nd half.
  • In talking about Parker and defending Cambage, the Aussie announcers talked about Parker being taller than Tina but not playing a physical game. Australia and its style is not a great match-up for Parker.
 
UConnCat said:
I rewatched the second half online (w/ the Aussie announcers) and noticed a few things:

  • There was a time in the 3rd Q (~ 4-5 mins left) when Candace and Syl were in and on two occasions allowed Aus to grab some loose balls w/out diving for the ball. The Aussie announcers talked about The Aussies playing with more heart. Tina and Asjha were then put in the game and things changed.
  • After Siemone scored on the play Geno drew up you can see Geno and Dee exchange a hand-slap.
  • In addition to playing tough D on LJ, Asjha set a great screen for Seimone who drained the jumper.
  • The announcers talked about Tina with words like "wonderful game," "superb," "the next Lisa Leslie," and she's only 23 years old. Nice.
  • Seimone Augustus played some terrific D in the 2nd half.
  • In talking about Parker and defending Cambage, the Aussie announcers talked about Parker being taller than Tina but not playing a physical game. Australia and its style is not a great match-up for Parker.
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Where did you find the Ausie announcers video - would love to listen
 
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UcMiami said:
Where did you find the Ausie announcers video - would love to listen
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It was at the msnbc site. On previous occasions the replays had no announcers but this one had the Aussies. The play-by-play guy had an Australian accent but the analyst sounded American but I have no idea who it is.

Their take was interesting and pretty spot-on (at least for the 2nd half which is all I watched). Lots of talk of Cambage being fatigued and not being engaged in the 2nd half, the Aussies' heart during a 3rd Q stretch, the change in USA's body language once it regained its confidence, and of course Tina as "the next Lisa Leslie."
 
UConnCat said:
I rewatched the second half online (w/ the Aussie announcers) and noticed a few things:

  • There was a time in the 3rd Q (~ 4-5 mins left) when Candace and Syl were in and on two occasions allowed Aus to grab some loose balls w/out diving for the ball. The Aussie announcers talked about The Aussies playing with more heart. Tina and Asjha were then put in the game and things changed.
  • After Siemone scored on the play Geno drew up you can see Geno and Dee exchange a hand-slap.
  • In addition to playing tough D on LJ, Asjha set a great screen for Seimone who drained the jumper.
  • The announcers talked about Tina with words like "wonderful game," "superb," "the next Lisa Leslie," and she's only 23 years old. Nice.
  • Seimone Augustus played some terrific D in the 2nd half.
  • In talking about Parker and defending Cambage, the Aussie announcers talked about Parker being taller than Tina but not playing a physical game. Australia and its style is not a great match-up for Parker.
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Good stuff, Cat. The Aussies had it well analyzed.
 
One more thing from the Aussie announcers (I just finished watching), they both thought Cambage punched Catchings on that foul late in the game. Remember Catch was bent over for a few minutes. The US announcers (Ann and the pbp guy) both said it was unintentional but the Aussie announcers had a different take. I agree with the Aussie guys.
 
UConnCat said:
One more thing from the Aussie announcers (I just finished watching), they both thought Cambage punched Catchings on that foul late in the game. Remember Catch was bent over for a few minutes. The US announcers (Ann and the pbp guy) both said it was unintentional but the Aussie announcers had a different take. I agree with the Aussie guys.
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I watched that one on replay and the way Catch buckled you could see she was hit in a sensitive spot. But on slow mo replay Cambage's arm doesn't seem to move...Catch just runs into her balled hand. If I was refereeing I wouldn't have called a foul, honestly.
 
UConnCat said:
One more thing from the Aussie announcers (I just finished watching), they both thought Cambage punched Catchings on that foul late in the game. Remember Catch was bent over for a few minutes. The US announcers (Ann and the pbp guy) both said it was unintentional but the Aussie announcers had a different take. I agree with the Aussie guys.
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Yup - it was a fist - if it was unintentional it would not have been a fist!
 
UConnCat said:
I don't think the change was about Catchings' preference as it was Geno's to insert another perimeter shooter in the starting lineup to spread the offense (and defenses) out a little bit. I don't doubt that Catch feels more comfortable with the change but the move was more tactical than simply satisfying her preference. Catch, Tina and Parker were more or less tripping over each other in the post.
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IDK, that's just what he said.
 
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