USA National Team... The future.

[cardfan]

My friends in Southern California and Northern California are disagreeing.

I love Nneka. She is athletic and intelligent and plays hard. She came in with raw athleticism and has become a great player.

I really like Elena too. I think she has been at a disadvantage playing at Delaware rather than some place like UConn or Stanford. But she is a hard worker and has done extracurricular training on her own for 15+ years.

They are different. Elena is not as strong as I would like her to be (same for Candace Parker), but she is a superlative shooter and very skilled. If I need a foul shot made in crunch time, I want her shooting it over any other female I can think of, even Dee or Sue. Her 3-point shot on a balanced team is a very dangerous weapon, especially in international play. When Bill Fennelly coached Team USA last year, he said that Elena was the best player on the team--over Nneka, Chiney, Skylar, et al.

I disagree with CardFan on height meaning nothing. If height meant nothing, Baylor would not have been 40-0 and Griner would not have won the POY award. Look at the pic of the AAs last year. Elena is the only player remotely close to Griner in height. While she is not a great leaper--as Nneka is--she uses her length well on defense. She also has a high release on her shot.

I want both of them. If I had to choose, it would depend on need. Do I need interior athleticism, or do I need a shooter?

NoCal rules

Re: height, I should have said there is little difference between 6'5 and 6'2 when you can jump like Nneka. Her motor is awesome too, she'd beat EDD down the court. Nneka shot 60% in college and 50% now, so she can shoot, just not the 3. So, do you go for perimeter or paint? I'll say paint because we have a lot of shooters, and I agree with Pat, rebounds wins championships.

 

[MilfordHusky]

NoCal rules

Re: height, I should have said there is little difference between 6'5 and 6'2 when you can jump like Nneka. Her motor is awesome too, she'd beat EDD down the court. Nneka shot 60% in college and 50% now, so she can shoot, just not the 3. So, do you go for perimeter or paint? I'll say paint because we have a lot of shooters, and I agree with Pat, rebounds wins championships.

Not the right person to quote on this board.

I hope you notice that pretty much every Boneyarder likes Nneka (a lot). Where we disagree is whether she is #1, #2, #5, or #15. We have our biases and opinions. You have yours.

 

[HuskyNan]

2016 USA Women's Olympic Team:
PG: Bird^, Whalen, (young PG* with strong defense/shooting abilities)
SG: Taurasi^, Augustus

^ - may retire from USAB, but doubt it, they both have at least 4 good years left if they remain healthy.

Lindsay Whalen and Diana Taurasi are almost exactly the same age (birthdays are one month apart) yet Whalen is a young PG and Diana might be ready to retire?

 

[EricSD]

Conspicuously absent in the discussion are any present or past Orange players (and i don't mean Syracuse!). Johnson may be the most likely candidate to be named to the pool, but even then I think it's a stretch. and looking down the road, I don't see Simmons, Spani, Burdick, or Massengale being listed as a potential players in the pool down the road. I guess the issue is (in general) a player probably needs to be one of the top 2-3 recruits in her class to even be considered. Of course Sue was not even a top 5 kid, but Swin, Diana, Maya, and Tina were all #1 or #2. I think Ashja was #4 in her class.

And that's not to say that a kid can't play her way onto the team. In addition to the above mentioned players, Augustus, Catchings and Parker were all at or near the top in their HS classes, but Fowles, Whalen and McCaughtry were not (Fowles was 8 per Blue Star - not sure where she was rated by others).

 

[MilfordHusky]

Lindsay Whalen and Diana Taurasi are almost exactly the same age (birthdays are one month apart) yet Whalen is a young PG and Diana might be ready to retire?

I wondered the same. I'd describe Lindsay as "new," not "young." You're right--both she and Dee were seniors at the 2004 Final Four.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Conspicuously absent in the discussion are any present or past Orange players (and i don't mean Syracuse!). Johnson may be the most likely candidate to be named to the pool, but even then I think it's a stretch. and looking down the road, I don't see Simmons, Spani, Burdick, or Massengale being listed as a potential players in the pool down the road. I guess the issue is (in general) a player probably needs to be one of the top 2-3 recruits in her class to even be considered. Of course Sue was not even a top 5 kid, but Swin, Diana, Maya, and Tina were all #1 or #2. I think Ashja was #4 in her class.

And that's not to say that a kid can't play her way onto the team. In addition to the above mentioned players, Augustus, Catchings and Parker were all at or near the top in their HS classes, but Fowles, Whalen and McCaughtry were not (Fowles was 8 per Blue Star - not sure where she was rated by others).

Tennessee has landed some good recruits, but to make the Olympic team, you have to be pretty much the top player in your class. Catch and Candace were. So was Chamique. No one else has been at that level in 15 years. Where they are lacking, generally, is on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[TheTruthBelow]

Try reading the post again... Whalen is not being described as a "young point guard."

 

[Coler]

NoCal rules

Re: height, I should have said there is little difference between 6'5 and 6'2 when you can jump like Nneka. Her motor is awesome too, she'd beat EDD down the court. Nneka shot 60% in college and 50% now, so she can shoot, just not the 3. So, do you go for perimeter or paint? I'll say paint because we have a lot of shooters, and I agree with Pat, rebounds wins championships.

It's not just shooting. Elena can handle like a guard. She has guard like passing ability. And Nneka's shooting % is because most of her shots come in paint. Elena shot 52% last year and that was with double teams and most of the time triple teams. Yeah, you can say it's not like the PAC-12 like Stanford, but still 52% is still impressive.

What's interesting is comparing their last season's stats.

## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11 Delle Donne, Elena. 33-32 1115 33.8 325-625 .520 52-126 .413 225-253 .889 110 230 340 10.3 35 0 75 55 86 39 927 28.1
## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 30 Ogwumike, Nnemkadi. 36-36 1097 30.5 307-561 .547 4-17 .235 191-230 .830 126 242 368 10.2 82 0 63 80 40 49 809 22.5

Elana's stats aren't that different then Nneka's. And I'm surprised Nneka's rebounding numbers aren't far superior...

But again I would want them both on the team...but I'd have to take EDD over Nneka.

 

[Scotter]

In general height is actually preferable even if a shorter player can jump a little higher because there are a lot of situations where height comes into play where jumping isn't an option because the players are engaged with each other.

EDD has the advantage of being a pretty much perfect international basketball player with her combination of length. The best international teams take away the fast break and play a zone defense with a lot of length and take advantage of the way the international game is officiated. The way the game is played internationally tends to neutralize athleticism if the talent gap isn't overwhelming. This is part of the reason some players that are highly successful in the American game, which caters to athleticism are not chosen for the national team including a number of power forwards that many people like to point to as snubs.

That said I fully expect Nneka to be on the national team for the 2014 World Championships. By then she will have had the experience of playing a couple of seasons overseas. EDD will likely be on that team too, but she still has more to prove in my opinion. Just like Nneka did after her junior college season.

NoCal rules

Re: height, I should have said there is little difference between 6'5 and 6'2 when you can jump like Nneka. Her motor is awesome too, she'd beat EDD down the court. Nneka shot 60% in college and 50% now, so she can shoot, just not the 3. So, do you go for perimeter or paint? I'll say paint because we have a lot of shooters, and I agree with Pat, rebounds wins championships.

 

[cardfan]

Not the right person to quote on this board.

I hope you notice that pretty much every Boneyarder likes Nneka (a lot). Where we disagree is whether she is #1, #2, #5, or #15. We have our biases and opinions. You have yours.

LOL. Oh for sure, I know many folks here like Nneka, a lot.

 

[cardfan]

It's not just shooting. Elena can handle like a guard. She has guard like passing ability. And Nneka's shooting % is because most of her shots come in paint. Elena shot 52% last year and that was with double teams and most of the time triple teams. Yeah, you can say it's not like the PAC-12 like Stanford, but still 52% is still impressive.

What's interesting is comparing their last season's stats.

## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11 Delle Donne, Elena. 33-32 1115 33.8 325-625 .520 52-126 .413 225-253 .889 110 230 340 10.3 35 0 75 55 86 39 927 28.1
## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 30 Ogwumike, Nnemkadi. 36-36 1097 30.5 307-561 .547 4-17 .235 191-230 .830 126 242 368 10.2 82 0 63 80 40 49 809 22.5

Elana's stats aren't that different then Nneka's. And I'm surprised Nneka's rebounding numbers aren't far superior...

But again I would want them both on the team...but I'd have to take EDD over Nneka.

Nope, they are not, which is what I've been trying to explain. She can and does hit 10-12 fters with consistency. Apples and oranges comparing them because they play different positions, and Nneka played with the big girls whereas EDD did not.

 

[HuskyNan]

Try reading the post again... Whalen is not being described as a "young point guard."

Really?

2016 USA Women's Olympic Team:
PG: Bird^, Whalen, (young PG* with strong defense/shooting abilities)
SG: Taurasi^, Augustus
SF: Moore, McCoughtry, (Delle Donne)
PF: Parker, Ogwumike, (Stewart)
C: Charles, Fowles, Griner

( ) - between these players for final spot.
^ - may retire from USAB, but doubt it, they both have at least 4 good years left if they remain healthy.
* - anyone of Hartley, Sims, Diggins, Jefferson could potentially be an option in 4 years.

 

[trisailin]

Nan (and others)
You've mis-read the post of ucdt3. At the bottom, is the key. The brackets indicate "between these players".
So the brackets were not in reference to Whalen, but rather Hartley, Sims, Diggins.....
So for SF - (Delle Donne) indicates - possible addition
PF (Stewart) - possible addition. Not Stewart "modifies or describes" Ogwumike

 

[doggydaddy]

We are so quick to add Ogwumike and Stewart and for good reason. But you can't ignore two players that were rated 98 by hoopgurlz. That have played critical roles on the USA teams for their age group. And were the best freshman in college basketball.

Williams and Lewis. If not 2016 then 2020 for sure.

 

[ucdt3]

Really?

young PG was one of either Hartley, Sims, Diggins, Jefferson....not Whalen. Whalen could fall in the retire from USAB category, but I highly doubt USAB would be happy with Taurasi, Bird, AND Whalen all retiring from USAB and leaving a new crop of inexperienced, younger PGs to carry the load at the 2016 Olympics. IMO, at least one of the 3 of them will be on that roster in 2016 and most likely all 3 along with a young PG (who they can pass the torch to) out of either Hartley, Sims, Diggins, and Jefferson.

Make sense?

 

[MilfordHusky]

We are so quick to add Ogwumike and Stewart and for good reason. But you can't ignore two players that were rated 98 by hoopgurlz. That have played critical roles on the USA teams for their age group. And were the best freshman in college basketball.

Williams and Lewis. If not 2016 then 2020 for sure.

Yup, Williams too. (You're welcome, Triad.).

 

[rocky rococo]

Danielle Robinson is the next top-level USA PG. I don't know if people here are watching her play with San Antonio, but the tutelage she's getting from Vicki Johnson and Becky Hammon is bringing out what can only be described as greatness in her.

 

[Blakeon18]

Someone posted it above but I figure it is worth repeating. When the USA team won the gold medal in China at the World University Games last summer the head coach was full of praise for Skylar and Nneke for their interantional experience and leadership. He did go on to say that our best player was 'the kid from Delaware'.

 

[semper]

If the kid from Delaware wants to play pro-ball, she will develop very very rapidly by leaving the relative comfort zone she has been in by staying in Delaware. She will change dramatically and it will be a joy to watch. I hope she is able to do this! Then we'll talk.

 

[UcMiami]

I really don't think consideration has anything to do with high school ranking, but more with college accolades - AA and various national awards. The development or plateauing during 4 years of college is critical. And very few players emerge after their college years to be consider - usually because they were playing outside the normal power teams/conferences - I think Whalen would be an example on the current team.
And there are very few players who are so obviously special in high school - BG, EDD, CP and BS would be examples of players that given just a little bit of coaching through college were/are clearly 'special'. Players like Sue and Dee, NO, Williams, and Lewis to name just a few have 'normal' skill sets coming out of high school - you expect them to be good, you expect them to have pro careers, but will they actually develop is a crap shoot, and will they develop into one of the best three at their position compared to the 6 years on either side of them? Because that is what the national team consists of. You can be the best player born in 1981, but if there were two better players born in 1977 and two more born in 1985 that play your position, your window for making the national team is very very small.

 

[meyers7]

Really?

Yep, really. It was explained in the key at the bottom. Besides "strong defensive/shooting abilities" really doesn't describe Whalen.

 

[asuwish]

I'm sure others have been thinking about the fact that our National Team is getting older, and what that means for the future.

So I thought I would take a peek, first by listing the current 12 by age, approximately:

Catchings
Bird/Cash/Jones
DT
Whelan
Augustus
Fowles
Parker
Charles
Angel
Moore

(not sure that is 100% correct, but it's close enough for now)

Pretty sure this is the last go around for Catch, but between Maya and Angel, I think we are covered here. Same for Cash and Jones, and there are players like Nneka, Chiney and Allysa Thomas who should be ready to contribute very soon, to replace them and also backfill for Maya/Angel as one of them moves into the starting lineup.

What about guards? Sue, DT and Whelan have to be replaced eventually, maybe very soon in Sue's case. Diggins, Hartley and Sims certainly appear to have the skills to be their replacements, although I wonder if USA basketball will ever be able to replace Bird, DT and even Whelan, who has emerged as a really terrific guard. What about Vandersloot? I hope she continues to be under consideration.

Eventually, Fowles will be replaced, but clearly Griner will be expected to do that, and also join the post rotation very soon. Does Tina have to move to a forward spot to make room for Griner as one of the centers?

Augustus and Parker will have to be replaced. Does EDD come into the picture here? Breanna Stewart?

Just going through this exercise is a little reassuring that USA should be able to remain dominant.

Our 2020 National Team might look something like this:

Centers: Griner, Charles

Forwards: Moore, Nneka, Chiney, Thomas, Stewart, EDD/Angel

Guards: Diggins, Hartley, Sims, Vandersloot.

Not bad at all, IMO.

in 2020 I think Vandersloot has Sue Bird quality's with Sims Hartly Diggins, and even Jefferson in the mix. Williams (Duke) and Russell 6'7" should be in the mix at the post with Griner starting. Big Syl should be at her last games or done in 8 years. We have many combo players, but I can't think of many pure 2 guards. If we have EDD, Maya, & KML so I would not be worried about 3 point shooting
Moore and Angel (baring injuries) should lock down spots. KML should be right there at forward with her range and instincts. EDD & Stewart & Nneka should all be there because of there unique talents. Keep an eye on Gray from Duke, and Tuck who I think has some A. Jones and very good range for a 4 to sneak into the mix as well.

 

[dtbtbtb]

I think the 2020 team will be :
Guards: Bria, MoJeff, KML, DT (she'll play till she is 40 and even than will be one of the best in the world)
Wings: B. Stew, Maya, NO (to keep Stanford fans happy), EDD (to keep all of the EDD fans happy)
Posts: Charles, Griner (to keep Baylor fans happy), E. Williams (to keep Duke fans happy), Parker (to keep TN fans happy)

 

[semper]

Sometimes I wish we could put threads like this in a time capsule and then retrieve them in 8 (or whatever) years. Would be interesting!

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think the 2020 team will be :
Guards: Bria, MoJeff, KML, DT (she'll play till she is 40 and even than will be one of the best in the world)
Wings: B. Stew, Maya, NO (to keep Stanford fans happy), EDD (to keep all of the EDD fans happy)
Posts: Charles, Griner (to keep Baylor fans happy), E. Williams (to keep Duke fans happy), Parker (to keep TN fans happy)

Ok, it's settled; time to move on to 2024.

Wait--what about Morgan and Brianna Turner?

 

[triaddukefan]

When naming PG's for the future.... I dont see alot of love for Chelsea Gray..... she might not be the pure scorer that Diggins or Hartley are... or the defensive player that Sims is.... but she's as good a PG as any currently in college... and at 5'11 and a solid build.... top notch court vision and superb passing skills.... I think she will be a very good pro player.

 

[doggydaddy]

When naming PG's for the future.... I dont see alot of love for Chelsea Gray..... she might not be the pure scorer that Diggins or Hartley are... or the defensive player that Sims is.... but she's as good a PG as any currently in college... and at 5'11 and a solid build.... top notch court vision and superb passing skills.... I think she will be a very good pro player.

She could be a very good pro player, but this was about Olympic players. Not sure she will be THAT good. Time will tell.

 

[semper]

I still have hopes for Monty!

 

[triaddukefan]

She could be a very good pro player, but this was about Olympic players. Not sure she will be THAT good. Time will tell.

But Diggins, Hartley, Sims, and Jefferson will be THAT good ??

 

[doggydaddy]

But Diggins, Hartley, Sims, and Jefferson will be THAT good ??

Now, did I say that? Your post was just the one I replied to.