US v. Mexico - CONACAF Cup Play-off

[junglehusky]

I think Klinsmann could get away with these kinds of antics and a fractured dressing room if he also got results, basically in two games (one more WC win vs. Belgium, and beating Mexico the other night). Now, I'm not so sure. And I was amenable to the idea of him staying on as technical director but from the outside, if the U-23s don't qualify for the Olympics that doesn't bode well either (although there's a lot more behind the scenes / structural stuff that will go into evaluating the technical director side of things).

For brief flashes here and there we have seen the US look more dangerous in the attack than they did under previous coaches. But we haven't seen that sustained. Couple that with the non-emergence of a young, cohesive back line and the national side looks about the same, more or less, as it has for the past 15 years or so. Maybe JK can make things click and I hope he does... I thought JK putting Donovan out in the cold was a justifiable if risky decision but the way he handled Johnson just has me scratching my head.

 

[Mots010]

Subbing in Rimando? He might get a little more sympathy had he said he wanted to sub Jermaine Jones out, who was gassed from about the 70th minute on. I'm pretty indifferent on JK, as I'm not sure there's that high of a ceiling given our talent pool right now. But one thing we can't afford is to start kicking our younger top talent to the curb.

Our 2014 qualifying campaign brought some of the best soccer I've seen out of the US, particularly in the Hex, and a few friendlies in the same time frame. I was hoping we'd build off that, but its really tailed off over the last year. Maybe its our aging generation, or the curse of the second cycle, which never seems to work out, or maybe JK is just wearing out his welcome.

 

[SAMCRO]

I've been a JK supporter, but definitely not happy how everything seems to be so public, and personal with him. Tonight's game v CR should be really interesting regarding the body language and effort of the US players.

 

[whaler11]

brutal

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Just got back from Red Bull and am waiting for my son to ask for a refund regarding his birthday present. Just ugly. Good news, my son spotted a great parking spot in the lower deck and one road by the parking garage was open for once. Thus, made it home in 45 minutes.

First, arena was only 40% full maybe and it was about a 60/40 split between US and Cota Rica supporters. Hard to tell though as both teams utilize the same colors. Couple of drunk obnoxious Tico fans kept trying to get Outlaws into fights in the Outlaw section.

As for the game itself, ref was horrible and lost control of the game. No call on Breck getting an elbow in the throat, could have been a red, and then Yeldin gets a yellow for slightly grabbing a jersey. No consistency and some were for and against Costa Rica, too. That said, it did not matter as the US had not strategy, no creatively, and just flat out stunk. Basically, bomb it over the back line and hope the US can get to it (they did not) and when they used some short passing, the only direction they could connect was backwards. In turn, Costa Rica sliced-up the defense badly on counters and got a well-deserved goal. Howard kept it from being a lot worse and while also ripping Ream, Alvarado, and Orozco (the later got beaten to the inside badly on a simple one touch) new ones for most of the game. Wood should have started as he hustled and created some opportunities, while Altidore could not get the ball off his feet for a short several times. Everyone else was basically MIA due to the inability to connect more than one pass in a row. At least Mix was nice enough to come over and thank the fans afterwards.

This team has a lot of work to do before Cup qualifying begins next month and throwing players under bus will not solve its problems.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

PS – This will not help. Johnson’s German club is now reporting his has a hamstring injury. And the US needs this guy on the team.

http://www.espnfc.com/german-bundes...ngladbach-say-fabian-johnson-has-thigh-injury

 

[meyers7]

Just got back from Red Bull and am waiting for my son to ask for a refund regarding his birthday present. Just ugly. Good news, my son spotted a great parking spot in the lower deck and one road by the parking garage was open for once. Thus, made it home in 45 minutes.

First, arena was only 40% full maybe and it was about a 60/40 split between US and Cota Rica supporters. Hard to tell though as both teams utilize the same colors. Couple of drunk obnoxious Tico fans kept trying to get Outlaws into fights in the Outlaw section.

As for the game itself, ref was horrible and lost control of the game. No call on Breck getting an elbow in the throat, could have been a red, and then Yeldin gets a yellow for slightly grabbing a jersey. No consistency and some were for and against Costa Rica, too. That said, it did not matter as the US had not strategy, no creatively, and just flat out stunk. Basically, bomb it over the back line and hope the US can get to it (they did not) and when they used some short passing, the only direction they could connect was backwards. In turn, Costa Rica sliced-up the defense badly on counters and got a well-deserved goal. Howard kept it from being a lot worse and while also ripping Ream, Alvarado, and Orozco (the later got beaten to the inside badly on a simple one touch) new ones for most of the game. Wood should have started as he hustled and created some opportunities, while Altidore could not get the ball off his feet for a short several times. Everyone else was basically MIA due to the inability to connect more than one pass in a row. At least Mix was nice enough to come over and thank the fans afterwards.

This team has a lot of work to do before Cup qualifying begins next month and throwing players under bus will not solve its problems.

Agreed, horrible display last night. I feel sorry for you having to see that in person.

 

[SAMCRO]

JK has lost this team, and he needs to get them back in a hurry. Whether he's been right or wrong with some of his call outs and decisions (and, IMO, he's been right with some, wrong with others), his ego needs to step aside and he needs to rebuild trust and confidence in the locker room. If he can't do that, he needs to go, and go now. They should (SHOULD, not definitely will) get thru the next round of qualifying and into the Hex. If there is not much improvement in the next 6 matches, a change needs to happen before the Hex begins.

 

[SubbaBub]

JK has lost this team, and he needs to get them back in a hurry. Whether he's been right or wrong with some of his call outs and decisions (and, IMO, he's been right with some, wrong with others), his ego needs to step aside and he needs to rebuild trust and confidence in the locker room. If he can't do that, he needs to go, and go now. They should (SHOULD, not definitely will) get thru the next round of qualifying and into the Hex. If there is not much improvement in the next 6 matches, a change needs to happen before the Hex begins.

I think he's a lost cause. People like him don't need to change, so they don't.

The idea that a top player like Johnson wouldn't balance his club and country obligations by continuing to play if he feels an injury coming on is a disqualifying attitude for a national team coach. Especially for a guy who was coming off an injury. The you're not hurt, you're soft meme doesn't fly in american football anymore.

Subbing Rimando for the PKs? Are we that much of an egomaniac Jurg?

Last night's match meant zero, none of those guys are ready for qualifying. It was a January C squad. If he let's either Alvarado or Orosco on the bus again, he should be fired on the spot.

Also Howard is clearly a better keeper than Guzan, ainec.

Play a system that fits the players you have. Don't tick off your best players or ignore players performing well overseas. Ream and Cameron should be the center back pair in every game for the next cycle until someone shows they are better. Leave Johnson alone, assuming he ever comes backs and find someone who can run and defend to play left back.

Jones, Altidore, Dempsey, Beckerman. Wondo don't need to get another cap. If you need Clint to qualify, fine but he isn't making the 2018 squad due to his age. Neither are the rest of them. Play Zardes and Morris up top. If Wood develops he can be in the mix too. Let Yedlin play wide in every match. Find another runner for the left side.

Put Bradley back at the 6 and Mix as the attacking midfielder for now or put Johansson in there as a withdrawn striker as a 4-3-1-2 alignment.

JK has gone full Col. Kurtz.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I think he's a lost cause. People like him don't need to change, so they don't.

The idea that a top player like Johnson wouldn't balance his club and country obligations by continuing to play if he feels an injury coming on is a disqualifying attitude for a national team coach. Especially for a guy who was coming off an injury. The you're not hurt, you're soft meme doesn't fly in american football anymore.

Subbing Rimando for the PKs? Are we that much of an egomaniac Jurg?

Last night's match meant zero, none of those guys are ready for qualifying. It was a January C squad. If he let's either Alvarado or Orosco on the bus again, he should be fired on the spot.

Also Howard is clearly a better keeper than Guzan, ainec.

Play a system that fits the players you have. Don't tick off your best players or ignore players performing well overseas. Ream and Cameron should be the center back pair in every game for the next cycle until someone shows they are better. Leave Johnson alone, assuming he ever comes backs and find someone who can run and defend to play left back.

Jones, Altidore, Dempsey, Beckerman. Wondo don't need to get another cap. If you need Clint to qualify, fine but he isn't making the 2018 squad due to his age. Neither are the rest of them. Play Zardes and Morris up top. If Wood develops he can be in the mix too. Let Yedlin play wide in every match. Find another runner for the left side.

Put Bradley back at the 6 and Mix as the attacking midfielder for now or put Johansson in there as a withdrawn striker as a 4-3-1-2 alignment.

JK has gone full Col. Kurtz.

Agree. The club players have an entire career to worry about and while the Mex game was important, especially to JK, it’s not the World Cup final where a player is expected to play until his legs fall off, literally.

Regarding Johnson, doesn't he play Left Midfield on is club team? JK must drive them nuts with the never-ending line-up changes and continuing to play players out of their natural club position, which most have trained for and have been conditioning for months. A coach has to create a system around the players he has, not create a system and then force players into that. For example, I coach a U10 travel team and I have 1 player who if I played Keeper, would still work his to the other end of the field to take a shot. So, do I put him in keeper because he’s the tallest kid on my team? No. He play striker or wing depending on what players I have available for a given game.

Another concern over the long-term. We have seen a lot of rookie players burst onto the scene only to disappear or regress after a few games – Green, Wondo, etc. Didn’t the US hire JK to develop these players, who have talent, into World Class or at least serviceable players at the Cup level? Where has that development been? I am really concerned as the US has some real talent coming-up with Morris, Carter-Vickers, Hyndman, Zelalem, etc. If JK cannot develop these players into what the US needs, then JK has to go now before US’s chances in 2018 and 2022 are damaged.

 

[SubbaBub]

Agree. The club players have an entire career to worry about and while the Mex game was important, especially to JK, it’s not the World Cup final where a player is expected to play until his legs fall off, literally.

Regarding Johnson, doesn't he play Left Midfield on is club team? JK must drive them nuts with the never-ending line-up changes and continuing to play players out of their natural club position, which most have trained for and have been conditioning for months. A coach has to create a system around the players he has, not create a system and then force players into that. For example, I coach a U10 travel team and I have 1 player who if I played Keeper, would still work his to the other end of the field to take a shot. So, do I put him in keeper because he’s the tallest kid on my team? No. He play striker or wing depending on what players I have available for a given game.

Another concern over the long-term. We have seen a lot of rookie players burst onto the scene only to disappear or regress after a few games – Green, Wondo, etc. Didn’t the US hire JK to develop these players, who have talent, into World Class or at least serviceable players at the Cup level? Where has that development been? I am really concerned as the US has some real talent coming-up with Morris, Carter-Vickers, Hyndman, Zelalem, etc. If JK cannot develop these players into what the US needs, then JK has to go now before US’s chances in 2018 and 2022 are damaged.

I believe Johnson has played back line before as well as opposite sides. I'd consider him the only swing player as the US fullbacks tend to be used as two way players anyway. But I agree on the position switching and by not putting guys in their best spots he's hurting two positions instead of one.

I'd forgotten some of the young guys, Green is a good example of a guy who could be good for the US is developed. But, I'm of the sense that these guys either have it or don't. We don't see improvement as much as refinement in tactics and field awareness. Guys who have a mousy touch or can't defend aren't going to improve much. Better not to waste time at the National level.

JK had one thing correct, guys earning playing time in top leagues should be given preference. It's the reason I back Jones for so long even when it wasn't popular. If you are starting for a Champions League team or even a top level club on Europe, you should be the guy to beat in the US squad.

That means Ream, Johansson, Cameron should be starting. I think AJ is being held back because Clint is a selfish player.

The bulk of the team will be from MLS unfortunately. If JK is going to rant about club situations he should continue to press these guys to move to Europe instead of allowing them to hide in MLS.

 

[whaler11]

It's interesting that he rants and rants anti-MLS and so many players have moved there....

 

[SubbaBub]

It's interesting that he rants and rants anti-MLS and so many players have moved there....

They moved for the money and guaranteed playing time. Clint and Jones are too old for Europe, Bradley was made a huge $ offer, and Altidore was on his way out of the EPL.

The younger and lesser guys don't want to give up the playing time to risk the clear European anti American bias held by clubs and the player agents who orchestrate most of the transfer market.

You'd think players who made the top 16 in Brazil could find roster space alongside the many players who didn't make it out of the group. Most players aren't Messi.

 

[whaler11]

This guy is something else...

http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/us...linsmann-usa-goalkeeper-brad-guzan-tim-howard

 

[ZooCougar]

It's interesting that he rants and rants anti-MLS and so many players have moved there....

Well duh. They get paid twice as much as what they are worth.

MLS made Giovinco the highest paid Italian in the world. He didn't even make the team sheet at Juventus and doesn't start for Italy.

 

[whaler11]

Well duh. They get paid twice as much as what they are worth.

MLS made Giovinco the highest paid Italian in the world. He didn't even make the team sheet at Juventus and doesn't start for Italy.

I guess the point was a bit too subtle:

If the guy who is theoretically charged with changing the culture is having so little success changing the culture - maybe either he isn't the right guy, or finding a way to win within the current culture is a better approach.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

PS - Just got a survey request from US Soccer with respect to my satisfaction at the USA v. Costa Rica game at Red Bull.

I gave a 1 as 0 was not available to the quality of play on the field. I also gave a 2 to the atmosphere as they only drew under 10,000 to the game. I don't think it as marketed well along with the fan support being somewhat deflated after the Gold Cup losses. Did not help that the Mets were hosting a playoff game at Citi Field and the NY Rangers were at MSG. Afterall, in 2014, the Red Bull was sold out (26,700) for the US team's friendly against Turkey just before the World Cup (and the resale market was insane).

The only 5 I gave was parking went into the PATH garage the back way and my son spotted a sweet space on the second deck. We left the stadium at 9, got to my car at 9:12, was on the highway at 9:27 and home just before 10. That was sweet. Caught a Red Bulls game last season and it took me 30 minutes just to get out of the garage.

 

[ZooCougar]

I guess the point was a bit too subtle:

If the guy who is theoretically charged with changing the culture is having so little success changing the culture - maybe either he isn't the right guy, or finding a way to win within the current culture is a better approach.

Just because he is a bad coach, doesn't mean he is wrong about MLS. Bradley quit Europe too early. In MLS there isn't nearly as much pressure to perform. And there is only emphasis on one competition.

I like the league and all, but MLS has reached a point where an argument could be made that it is detrimental to the USMNT. And it doesn't help that Don Garber and the others were $ucking Jurgen over after the WC last year. Bradley left Roma to join a club that couldn't even make the playoffs.

 

[whaler11]

Just because he is a bad coach, doesn't mean he is wrong about MLS. Bradley quit Europe too early. In MLS there isn't nearly as much pressure to perform. And there is only emphasis on one competition.

I like the league and all, but MLS has reached a point where an argument could be made that it is detrimental to the USMNT. And it doesn't help that Don Garber and the others were $ucking Jurgen over after the WC last year. Bradley left Roma to join a club that couldn't even make the playoffs.

I don't think he's wrong about MLS - but if you can't change the culture and that goes well beyond MLS maybe you need someone who can embrace it?

 

[Kgun7]

Just because he is a bad coach, doesn't mean he is wrong about MLS. Bradley quit Europe too early. In MLS there isn't nearly as much pressure to perform. And there is only emphasis on one competition.

I like the league and all, but MLS has reached a point where an argument could be made that it is detrimental to the USMNT. And it doesn't help that Don Garber and the others were $ucking Jurgen over after the WC last year. Bradley left Roma to join a club that couldn't even make the playoffs.

I see it a little differently. Bradley didn't quit Europe ... Europe quit on Bradley. Roma received a $10 Million transfer fee from someone who really didn't fit into their plans anyway. Had Bradley stayed at Roma he barely would've seen the pitch ... especially after the acquisition of Radja Nainggolan.

What were Bradley's other Europe offers? I don't think Bradley had much of a choice on this ...

 

[ZooCougar]

I see it a little differently. Bradley didn't quit Europe ... Europe quit on Bradley. Roma received a $10 Million transfer fee from someone who really didn't fit into their plans anyway. Had Bradley stayed at Roma he barely would've seen the pitch ... especially after the acquisition of Radja Nainggolan.

What were Bradley's other Europe offers? I don't think Bradley had much of a choice on this ...

He was the fourth man in a 3 man midfield at Roma. He was hardly out of the picture. Roma wanted him to stay but they were hardly willing to pay him what TFC wanted to pay, which was well above market.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't think he's wrong about MLS - but if you can't change the culture and that goes well beyond MLS maybe you need someone who can embrace it?

He wants his players to always be pushing for the next level. There is a next level for every player, even Messi and Ronaldo. When he took over he had guys in the pool who were sitting on the bench on mediocre EPL teams thinking they had "made it". He wants a nucleus of Champions League (UEFA not CONCACAF) players because that is one of the biggest factors in World Cup winners and finalists.

Personally I think he is done. The Olympic debacle is the final nail, but I don't think too many managers would have done any better with this pool of players. In fact we would have done way worse without some of duals he brought in. Pretty hard to dispute any of that.

 

[Kgun7]

He was the fourth man in a 3 man midfield at Roma. He was hardly out of the picture. Roma wanted him to stay but they were hardly willing to pay him what TFC wanted to pay, which was well above market.

If Roma wanted him, why did they sell him after 2 years of a 4 year deal? Did Bradley threaten to hold out? Did Bradley make any demands for more playing time? IMHO ... Roma received an offer they couldn't refuse, for a player that did not factor too highly into their future. Bradley recieved an opportunity to play regularly leading up to the world cup ... and was handsomely rewarded!!

 

[ZooCougar]

If Roma wanted him, why did they sell him after 2 years of a 4 year deal? Did Bradley threaten to hold out? Did Bradley make any demands for more playing time? IMHO ... Roma received an offer they couldn't refuse, for a player that did not factor too highly into their future. Bradley recieved an opportunity to play regularly leading up to the world cup ... and was handsomely rewarded!!

Because nobody else would pay 10 mil for Bradley. They bought him for 3.75 mil EURO. That's some good business.

And one of the reasons he played so poorly in the World Cup, might have been because he lost sharpness playing in a lesser league.

 

[Kgun7]

Because nobody else would pay 10 mil for Bradley. They bought him for 3.75 mil EURO. That's some good business.

I'm confused .... do you still think Bradley gave up on Europe????