US v. Mexico - CONACAF Cup Play-off

[DarthGrumpy]

There is not a human being on the planet -- including the Pope -- who wouldn't be rooting for JK to fail if he did to them what he did to Donovan. Donovan was nowhere near "the margin" of whether or not to make that team. Nowhere near it. Now, I give JK credit for getting us to the knockout phase, which was the reasonable goal to achieve. But we would have been better if Donovan was part of the team. And based on track record, you may be the only American who follows this who isn't absolutely convinced that if Landon Donovan was there instead of Wondo that ball in stoppage time is in the back of the net and we're in the quarters.

Though I am not quite as sold on Donovan as you as I accept that he was a prima donna and could be a head case from time to time, I would take Donovan at 75% over Brad Davis any day of the week. Donovan would have taken both roles as a set piece specialist (Davis) and a super-sub when a goal is needed (Wondo) as he has proven to be able to do both. That would have freed a roster spot for a large bodied striker to fill in for Altidore, should be go down to injury, which he had a history of before 2014, as that role on the US team in 2014 was so vital. Klinsmann's ego both got the US out of the Group of Death in 2014 by gambling on guys like Green and Yeldin and kept the US out of the Great 8 by not having LD on the team nor a sub for Altidore.

 

[ZooCougar]

There is not a human being on the planet -- including the Pope -- who wouldn't be rooting for JK to fail if he did to them what he did to Donovan. Donovan was nowhere near "the margin" of whether or not to make that team. Nowhere near it. Now, I give JK credit for getting us to the knockout phase, which was the reasonable goal to achieve. But we would have been better if Donovan was part of the team. And based on track record, you may be the only American who follows this who isn't absolutely convinced that if Landon Donovan was there instead of Wondo that ball in stoppage time is in the back of the net and we're in the quarters.

He wasn't playing well that spring. In training camp with the Galaxy he showed up fat. His fitness tests in the US camp weren't anything special. They needed resilient players for the tough conditions and travel in Brazil. Landycakes was always a complicated machine, even Bruce Arena said that. I don't blame Jurgen one bit for not bringing. In fact a good argument could be made that we advanced because he wasn't there...

 

[ZooCougar]

My God, are you judgmental. All he did in his club career was probably have the best career in MLS history. Yeah, you wanted him to leave the country and be great in a better league. Guess what -- he didn't want to be away from is family forever and choose not to. Like 99% of us would.

Landon's ability was wasted in MLS. And this is coming from an MLS season ticket holder. He could have done an extended stint in England like Dempsey did and still have come back.

 

[businesslawyer]

He wasn't playing well that spring. In training camp with the Galaxy he showed up fat. His fitness tests in the US camp weren't anything special. They needed resilient players for the tough conditions and travel in Brazil. Landycakes was always a complicated machine, even Bruce Arena said that. I don't blame Jurgen one bit for not bringing. In fact a good argument could be made that we advanced because he wasn't there...

And while the World Cup was going on, he was showing for Club that he was still playing at a high level. Well, showing everyone but you.

 

[meyers7]

And while the World Cup was going on, he was showing for Club that he was still playing at a high level. Well, showing everyone but you.

I think it had more to do with trust. Klinsmann didn't feel like he could trust Donovan. Understandably, after Donovan had let him down a couple times.

But I would have preferred Donovan over Davis. Lot's of people I would have preferred over Davis.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think it had more to do with trust. Klinsmann didn't feel like he could trust Donovan. Understandably, after Donovan had let him down a couple times.

But I would have preferred Donovan over Davis. Lot's of people I would have preferred over Davis.

Trust him to what? Be the type of personality Klinsman wanted him to be? That was never going to happen. Trust him to be one of the 20 best field players eligible to put on the kits? That should have been an easy decision.

 

[ZooCougar]

And while the World Cup was going on, he was showing for Club that he was still playing at a high level. Well, showing everyone but you.

No he wasn't. He didn't start playing well again until he announced he was retiring and then all of the pressure was off. That was a month after the World Cup ended.

 

[meyers7]

Trust him to what? Be the type of personality Klinsman wanted him to be? That was never going to happen. Trust him to be one of the 20 best field players eligible to put on the kits? That should have been an easy decision.

Trust him to give 100%. Donovan had actually said he didn't think he'd be able to.

 

[whaler11]

Hey if Klinsmann wants to seal his fate with Brad Guzan and Wondo - more power to him.

He might set the USMNT back another half decade - but at least we knew who was in charge.

Sure he can't shut his own kid up - but he sure showed Landon. Who cares what the collateral damage was.

 

[ZooCougar]

Hey if Klinsmann wants to seal his fate with Brad Guzan and Wondo - more power to him.

He might set the USMNT back another half decade - but at least we knew who was in charge.

Sure he can't shut his own kid up - but he sure showed Landon. Who cares what the collateral damage was.

Oh stop. Mexico is really talented right now, and the US is probably at it's lowest point talent wise in a decade or so. I just don't think we are any good at the moment.

 

[whaler11]

Oh stop. Mexico is really talented right now, and the US is probably at it's lowest point talent wise in a decade or so. I just don't think we are any good at the moment.

Which might be true but has little to do with my post.

It's going to end badly with JK. The only outstanding question is when.

It's a good thing they have time before the Hex. Where they are right now would be touch and go.

 

[Mots010]

What USMNT coach has it not ended badly for?

 

[ZooCougar]

Which might be true but has little to do with my post.

It's going to end badly with JK. The only outstanding question is when.

It's a good thing they have time before the Hex. Where they are right now would be touch and go.

I'm literally posting this in a tent on an Afghan base outside of one of those cities that we are killing Taliban in, so all I saw were some highlights, but I still say we're stuck between generations of talent. The Dempsey era guys are past their prime and not good enough. The younger guys aren't ready to win the big matches yet. They need to get to bigger clubs and get more minutes. Morris, Wood, Hyndman etc.

I give JK a little leeway because it's not like he gets to work with these guys week in and week out. His selections are weird. I just wonder who would be a better manager. I don't want an MLS pet. I like what Klinsmann is doing on the macro scale. On field tactics and selection are not working however.

Feel good about about UConn football though!

 

[whaler11]

I'm literally posting this in a tent on an Afghan base outside of one of those cities that we are killing Taliban in, so all I saw were some highlights, but I still say we're stuck between generations of talent. The Dempsey era guys are past their prime and not good enough. The younger guys aren't ready to win the big matches yet. They need to get to bigger clubs and get more minutes. Morris, Wood, Hyndman etc.

I give JK a little leeway because it's not like he gets to work with these guys week in and week out. His selections are weird. I just wonder who would be a better manager. I don't want an MLS pet. I like what Klinsmann is doing on the macro scale. On field tactics and selection are not working however.

Feel good about about UConn football though!

If you run into Carl can you confiscate his phone?

 

[SAMCRO]

I caught the final 20 minutes of regular time, and all of the AET. Disappointing result, disappointing effort (IMO). Guzan made a couple big saves, Yedlin's hook up with Wood was class,.... Great pass by DY, and even better finish by BW. U.S. couldn't maintain possession and Mexico pressed like crazy. They are just consistently inconsistent.

Tough weekend for US Soccer overall (U23 laid an egg v Honduras earlier in day). If this, along with the last round of friendlies, isn't a wake up call, I don't know what is. Our talent level is lagging, our confederation is getting stronger (Haiti and Jamaica getting some dual national Brits and Frogs to play for them, T&T improving, Honduras always tough, CR and Panama are a bit in flux is presently, and of course El Tri ), it is no guarentee this US team will get out of the Hex unless things improve substantially...quickly. I'm not advocating for a change at the top just yet, but if we look soft in the next round of WCQ leading into the Hex, then a change will be in order before Hex play begins.

 

[djct1999]

My God, are you judgmental. All he did in his club career was probably have the best career in MLS history. Yeah, you wanted him to leave the country and be great in a better league. Guess what -- he didn't want to be away from is family forever and choose not to. Like 99% of us would.

Ummmm, the majority of elite soccer players leave their country and families behind to play vs top competition. Unfortunately, having the best career in MLS history doesn't even leave a dent on the soccer landscape. I applauded Klinnsman then for his ballsy move and its still a reason why I don't think there is a better suited person to take the US to the next level. Before the US ever gets better technically they first needed to completely change how they mentally approach the game, from development to strategy to selection. Leaving Donovan off was a very visible symbol in that shift.

 

[whaler11]

Really not seeing it...

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/66054/black-saturday-isnt-the-only-reason-why-klinsmann.html

 

[DarthGrumpy]

It will be interesting to see the crowd's reaction to JK and the USMNT on Tuesday at Red Bull.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Oh, boy, this is going to get ugly no matter what. REAlly going to be upset if this Alvaradro more time to show that h can't play at this level yet.

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015...ann-fabian-johnson-usmnt-faking-injury-mexico

 

[whaler11]

Not. Gonna. End. Well.

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/12/jurgen-klinsmann-fabian-johnson-usa-costa-rica-friendly

 

[whaler11]

I wish I could have seem him sub Rimando for Guzan. Are we sure he isn't trying to get fired?

 

[SubbaBub]

Not. Gonna. End. Well.

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/12/jurgen-klinsmann-fabian-johnson-usa-costa-rica-friendly

I'm good, JK can be let go at anytime. The US doesn't need a coach where reality is subject to hallucinations.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I'm good, JK can be let go at anytime. The US doesn't need a coach where reality is subject to hallucinations.

This article was worse than the one I read on ESPN. This statement is spot on.

"Bottom line: If Johnson was asking to come off when he shouldn’t have been—and we don’t know for certain that was the case—then that’s a problem. An internal team problem. But there’s no way that Klinsmann should have gone public with it."

I'm worried that this is becoming more about the coach than the team. That is never a good development. Just look at Chelsea right now.

 

[whaler11]

This article was worse than the one I read on ESPN. This statement is spot on.

"Bottom line: If Johnson was asking to come off when he shouldn’t have been—and we don’t know for certain that was the case—then that’s a problem. An internal team problem. But there’s no way that Klinsmann should have gone public with it."

I'm worried that this is becoming more about the coach than the team. That is never a good development. Just look at Chelsea right now.

It's been about the coach since day 1.

He may as well have flushed Guzan and Johnson down a toliet. Good to know he's got better players behind them!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

It's been about the coach since day 1.

He may as well have flushed Guzan and Johnson down a toilet. Good to know he's got better players behind them!

And Bedoya after the Gold Cup semi-final loss and neither party will let the Donovan 'issue' rest.