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US Team

With 12 possible USA players, the team could theoretically have up to 3 players identified for a single position. Obviously there are lot of players who can play multiple positions, but for the sake of this exercise, I am going to focus on those who are primarily known as PGs. They are already taking a gamble with a recovering Chelsea Gray and Rhyne Howard is with the 3x3 team, so of the 10 remaining starting PGs for a WNBA team, which two off this list would you put on team USA?

Candidates:
DT
Caitlin Clark
Dana Evans
Vandersloot
Clarendon
Brittney Sykes
Arike Ogunbowale
Skylar Diggins-Smith
Ty Harris
Courtney Williams
Sabrina Ionescu is a Nancy Lieberman award winner (a 2,000 point, 1,000 assist player along with Courtney Vandersloot).

Courtney Vandersloot is not eligible for Team USA.

SDS would be problematic, due to chemistry issues with Diana.

Based on scoring ranks, the following would-be newcomers are not ideal:
  • Courtney Williams (39)
  • Tyasha Harris (41)
  • Dana Evans (44)
  • Layshia Clarendon (79) — Not a newcomer
Brittney Sykes is injured.

Arike Ogunbowale has not played with anyone on Team USA and some would say that despite her numbers, her team’s lack of success is because of her.

Had Aliyah Boston been gangbusters, Caitlyn would have a better chance of making the team and not playing mop-up minutes. But Aliyah’s play has regressed with Caitlyn at point — so much so that arguably her slot went to Alyssa Thomas.

For reasons I detailed here and here, Diana’s inclusion in Team USA is not only very defensible but also the best option among your listed alternatives.
 
Sabrina Ionescu is a Nancy Lieberman award winner (a 2,000 point, 1,000 assist player along with Courtney Vandersloot).

Courtney Vandersloot is not eligible for Team USA.

SDS would be problematic, due to chemistry issues with Diana.

Based on scoring ranks, the following would-be newcomers are not ideal:
  • Courtney Williams (39)
  • Tyasha Harris (41)
  • Dana Evans (44)
  • Layshia Clarendon (79) — Not a newcomer
Brittney Sykes is injured.

Arike Ogunbowale has not played with anyone on Team USA and some would say that despite her numbers, her team’s lack of success is because of her.

Had Aliyah Boston been gangbusters, Caitlyn would have a better chance of making the team and not playing mop-up minutes. But Aliyah’s play has regressed with Caitlyn at point — so much so that arguably her slot went to Alyssa Thomas.

For reasons I detailed here and here, Diana’s inclusion in Team USA is not only very defensible but also the best option among your listed alternatives.
Alyssa Thomas was making this team no matter what, imo. If Griner hadn't been ready to go, A. Boston may have gotten that spot if the team wanted a bruiser in the middle. But Thomas does plenty of bruising on her own.
 
They gave Catchings one last run, for her service. Same thing for DT. USA Basketball takes service/commitment very seriously. Being there for the camps, willing to play in the Non-Olympic tournaments (when they could be on a break/vacation), etc.

Right or wrong, that's what they do.
 
"I would totally understand if people were to say "there are players who are currently performing better in the W, and I wish Dee had stepped aside for them", but the vitriol with which many are going bonkers with (not you) over her inclusion is comical....Where is the hysteria over Griner being named to the team?" -- @EricLA

"It has been fairly obvious that due to the limited preparation time, historically the selection committees have valued existing instinctive chemistry among those who are currently performing well and satisfy a positional need." -- @NycUcWbbFan (paraphrasing the U.S.A. Selection Committee)


Excuse the length, but this subject is hard to pare down.

I've been pondering the selections for the better part of the weekend. While I'll stick with an earlier post in which I said none of it came as a surprise, that still doesn't mean there were some elements that just didn't feel right. I've pulled these two quotes from other posters because they helped develop my thinking.

- First, not a lot of time between major tournaments. The U.S.A. (and other top b-ball playing nations) are playing their third major tournament in a three-year period. This includes a change at the head-coach level. Whereas many (most?) other countries rely on a relatively set number of players, the U.S.A. is blessed with a wealth of players, which can lead to some tough decisions and certainly a lot of interplay among fans (as we're witnessing).

Also, it seemed like there just weren't many opportunities for new(er) faces to get face time in camps, friendlies balanced against the demands of having to play internationally (and what their overseas clubs may/may not allow them to do).

- Injuries at critical -- and perhaps not so deep -- positions; namely, center and point guard. Brittany Griner has always been a not-so-secret weapon of the U.S. in international team: there just aren't that many 6'8" players that have the effect she has, both for and against. There might be a few other U.S. players her height (Big T from Dallas), but none that can bring the range of skills and experience that she does. Her being on the team -- besides her experience -- is a need pick (at least to me).

As for point guard, @GamecockFam just posted a list of other point guards asking who we would pick, rather than going with a soon-to-be ready Chelsea Gray, supported by a number of other guards who can spell her. That, of course is compounded by that shortened time frame and other players coming back from injuries or other issues, such as Skylar Diggins-Smith's maternity leave.

- As such, the Selection Committee largely went with known entities and, at the guard position; players who can theoretically spell Chelsea Gray for a bit, including Sabrina Ionescu, Kelsea Plum and Jackie Young (although Diana Taurasi and Jewell Loyd can probably handle half-court sets as well.)

- There's a little bit of sameness with several players, which is both good and ehh. Plum, Ionescu and Taurasi are all heady players who can get crazy hot and stroke it from deep and also drive/get fouled. On the other hand, the defense is lacking (which is why Loyd, Young and Copper are also there, to a degree.)

FWIW, my main concern with Taurasi is the fact that she's 42. She can have some breakout games and then some highly ineffective ones, which I attribute to the body not recuperating. Given the other needs of this guard squad, I'm inclined to have the U.S.A. have every player firing away on all cylinders every game. My two thoughts were, interestingly, not named Clark: Rhyne Howard (who ended up on the 3x3 team) and, in particular, Kayla McBride. K-Mac, as noted elsewhere, might be the hottest shooting guard over the course of the Euro's and WNBA this year (she's hitting 50% of her threes this season). She's an accomplished international player, has U.S.A. duty, is coached in the WNBA by the U.S. Coach and knows her role.

- That said, I'm not to bang a drum crying foul. Taurasi, Griner and everyone will represent the U.S.A. well and in varying capacities. Hopefully, Chelsea Gray will, too, once she returns. And maybe K-Mac Caitlin Clark and others will get a chance at the next World Cup.
 
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The WNBA is concerned with putting eyes on the league and fans in the seats. USA Basketball is concerned with winning gold. CC will get her shot in 4 yrs.
That's a very easy statement to make, but you don't know what the next 4-years holds for Caitlin Clark, yourself or for anyone. Although I certainly understand all the presented reasons why CC was not selected. No one on the present team has done more for Women's Basketball as a hole than Caitlin Clark! A chance to represent your Country playing the game you love and have given pretty much your life to is a reward few receive and will cherish the rest of lives. I still believe CC will be put on this team because there are a couple of players with significant injuries and probably won't be able to participate. The fan uproar at leaving Clark off this team will hopefully turn that tide.

UPDATE: Hmm, what could I have possibly said above to earn an angry icon???
 
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Alyssa Thomas was making this team no matter what, imo. If Griner hadn't been ready to go, A. Boston may have gotten that spot if the team wanted a bruiser in the middle. But Thomas does plenty of bruising on her own.
Aliyah Boston is 6’5, a Griner heir apparent and would have been a Fowles replacement. But obviously, you and I are just making educated guesses on the selection committee’s thinking.

But even if your guess is correct on Thomas, and since Griner is a go, that would make Caitlyn’s inclusion in Team USA even less likely on a guard-heavy Team USA with 4 new guards and a team she has no rapport with yet.
 
To be fair, Brink and Van Lith have been doing 3 x 3 for a couple years now. It shouldn't be a surprise they were chosen considering how they've performed. Not to mention Plum was 3 x 3 for Tokyo before being considered for the 5x5.

The comment about the concern about backlash is interesting. It's also unfortunate as fans because the Olympics and FIBA rules are different for NCAAW or WNBA. I also wonder how fans would react when exposed to FIBA rules as they allow more contact.
Could you please tell me just where Brink and Van Lith have been playing organized 3x3 for the last couple of years? Most any woman starting for a D1 college team and certainly any playing in the WNBA have played 3x3 basketball. I don't know how this selection was made, what the rules were, etc., but I have to think that if Brink was chosen why wouldn't Caitlin Clark have been a much better (by heaps and miles better) choice than Van Lith? Why wouldn't most likely 50 other players have been better? Hailey couldn't hit the broadside of a barn for LSU during the playoffs and for much of the season. This one puzzles me greatly, but as I said there could be factors involved that I am unaware of.
 
"

"It has been fairly obvious that due to the limited preparation time, historically the selection committees have valued existing instinctive chemistry among those who are currently performing well and satisfy a positional need." -- @hoophuskee (paraphrasing the U.S.A. Selection Committee)
For the record-- I just copied (and noted at the time) what the poster said. That poster below should get the credit for pulling the data. Not me. :)

NycUcWbbFan

 
For the record-- I just copied (and noted at the time) what the poster said. That poster below should get the credit for pulling the data. Not me. :)

NycUcWbbFan

Thanks for the upfrontness. I stand corrected and will change if the "edit" option is still open (Done! ;))
 
Alyssa Thomas was making this team no matter what, imo. If Griner hadn't been ready to go, A. Boston may have gotten that spot if the team wanted a bruiser in the middle. But Thomas does plenty of bruising on her own.
Stewie, A'ja, and Thomas work well together. They all can defend multiple positions, rebound, and score.
 
Sabrina Ionescu is a Nancy Lieberman award winner (a 2,000 point, 1,000 assist player along with Courtney Vandersloot).

Courtney Vandersloot is not eligible for Team USA.

SDS would be problematic, due to chemistry issues with Diana.

Based on scoring ranks, the following would-be newcomers are not ideal:
  • Courtney Williams (39)
  • Tyasha Harris (41)
  • Dana Evans (44)
  • Layshia Clarendon (79) — Not a newcomer
Brittney Sykes is injured.

Arike Ogunbowale has not played with anyone on Team USA and some would say that despite her numbers, her team’s lack of success is because of her.

Had Aliyah Boston been gangbusters, Caitlyn would have a better chance of making the team and not playing mop-up minutes. But Aliyah’s play has regressed with Caitlyn at point — so much so that arguably her slot went to Alyssa Thomas.

For reasons I detailed here and here, Diana’s inclusion in Team USA is not only very defensible but also the best option among your listed alternatives.
That's basically where I was going with my question. If not DT, then who...? There really aren't that many all-star PGs out there at the moment. Of those players, I would probably pick Dana Evans off that list if DT was unavailable.
 
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That's basically where I was going with my question. If not DT, then who...? There really aren't that many all-star PGs out there at the moment. Of those players, I would probably pick Dana Evans off that list if DT was unavailable.
Actually Rebecca summed it up well, DT has been to all the camps in the past 2 years, and played well.
Plus is respected by the players, and Clark hasn't been to any.
So I will withdraw my objections, and go with Rebecca.
 
Could you please tell me just where Brink and Van Lith have been playing organized 3x3 for the last couple of years? Most any woman starting for a D1 college team and certainly any playing in the WNBA have played 3x3 basketball. I don't know how this selection was made, what the rules were, etc., but I have to think that if Brink was chosen why wouldn't Caitlin Clark have been a much better (by heaps and miles better) choice than Van Lith? Why wouldn't most likely 50 other players have been better? Hailey couldn't hit the broadside of a barn for LSU during the playoffs and for much of the season. This one puzzles me greatly, but as I said there could be factors involved that I am unaware of.

Sure. The USA Basketball's website does a good job of it.

Hailey Van Lith: Hailey Van Lith - USA Basketball

Cameron Brink: Cameron Brink - USA Basketball
 
It's not hard to find. The USA 3X3 process isn't much different than the 5x5 one. The selection committee doesn't make their decisions arbitrarily.
I'm sorry, but selecting Van Lith over all the others available in this country had to be an arbitrary decision (meaning in this case: an unreasonable act). I have absolutely nothing against her, but c'mon now.

Oh, by the way, I knew where to find the information and was being kind when I thanked you for it. I was simply testing you because of your previous statement. I wanted to make sure you knew where to find it. Please have a nice day, no offense was intended.
 
I'm sorry, but selecting Van Lith over all the others available in this country had to be an arbitrary decision (meaning in this case: an unreasonable act). I have absolutely nothing against her, but c'mon now.

Oh, by the way, I knew where to find the information and was being kind when I thanked you for it. I was simply testing you because of your previous statement. I wanted to make sure you knew where to find it. Please have a nice day, no offense was intended.

But it wasn't, which had been explained earlier if you had chosen to go over the prior discussion in this thread. USA BBall is constrained by the selection and eligibility criteria set by the sanctioning body, FIBA.
Ergo, to be eligible, players have to be ranked. To be ranked, they have to play in enough sanctioned tournaments over the past year. If the player is good enough to play in the W or in Euroleague or reach the NCAA finals, chances are they won't have time to go to China or wherever these events are held. They can't be chosen for the Olympics and USA BBall gets blamed, ok...
 
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But it wasn't, which had been explained earlier if you had chosen to go over the prior discussion in this thread. USA BBall is constrained by the selection and eligibility criteria set by the sanctioning body, FIBA.
Ergo, to be eligible, players have to be ranked. To be ranked, they have to play in enough sanctioned tournaments over the past year. If the player is good enough to play in the W or in Euroleague or reach the NCAA finals, chances are they won't have time to go to China or wherever these events are held. They can't be chosen for the Olympics and USA BBall gets blamed, ok...
You are undoubtedly correct, I just don't recall the team for the Tokyo Olympics being selected in this manner. The four (Stefanie Dolson, Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young (a replacement for Katie Lou Samuelson due to COVID)) my recollection is they were selected based on them being WNBA members and nothing else.

All the talk about Caitlin Clark not being selected to the USA 5x5 team is because at this point she hasn't proven to be better than the 12 selected. What she's done for women's basketball counts for nothing. So, it doesn't set well with me that Van Lith is selected to represent this country when she clearly is not anywhere close to being the best. Enough said on the subject, I'm moving on.
 
You are undoubtedly correct, I just don't recall the team for the Tokyo Olympics being selected in this manner. The four (Stefanie Dolson, Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young (a replacement for Katie Lou Samuelson due to COVID)) my recollection is they were selected based on them being WNBA members and nothing else.

All the talk about Caitlin Clark not being selected to the USA 5x5 team is because at this point she hasn't proven to be better than the 12 selected. What she's done for women's basketball counts for nothing. So, it doesn't set well with me that Van Lith is selected to represent this country when she clearly is not anywhere close to being the best. Enough said on the subject, I'm moving on.
Your recollection is incorrect. The point/ranking system was in effect for Tokyo. According to the FIBA site, ranking started in 2018.
 
You are undoubtedly correct, I just don't recall the team for the Tokyo Olympics being selected in this manner. The four (Stefanie Dolson, Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young (a replacement for Katie Lou Samuelson due to COVID)) my recollection is they were selected based on them being WNBA members and nothing else.

All the talk about Caitlin Clark not being selected to the USA 5x5 team is because at this point she hasn't proven to be better than the 12 selected. What she's done for women's basketball counts for nothing. So, it doesn't set well with me that Van Lith is selected to represent this country when she clearly is not anywhere close to being the best. Enough said on the subject, I'm moving on.
This whole system for 3x3 is set up to try and give other countries a chance to win by limiting which Americans can participate. Caitlyn chose not to do 3x3 competitions and Hailey chose to do them. Caitlyn and other players made that choice, so they will get to watch from home.

3x3 is hard and exhausting...there are a lot of players who would never do it.
 
Your recollection is incorrect. The point/ranking system was in effect for Tokyo. According to the FIBA site, ranking started in 2018.
That doesn't actually dispute what I've said. Where does it provide the so-called qualifying "points standings" of the four Tokyo Olympic team members selected? The four (Stefanie Dolson, Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Katie Lou Samuelson) simply played in the qualifying tournament together. Samuelson was later replaced by Jackie Young (point standings also missing for her). I'd like to see the points tally of these five players, can you provide that?
 
That doesn't actually dispute what I've said. Where does it provide the so-called qualifying "points standings" of the four Tokyo Olympic team members selected? The four (Stefanie Dolson, Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Katie Lou Samuelson) simply played in the qualifying tournament together. Samuelson was later replaced by Jackie Young (point standings also missing for her). I'd like to see the points tally of these five players, can you provide that?
I have noticed that you haven't posted any links to support your opinions while asking others to do so. Why is that?
 
That doesn't actually dispute what I've said. Where does it provide the so-called qualifying "points standings" of the four Tokyo Olympic team members selected? The four (Stefanie Dolson, Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Katie Lou Samuelson) simply played in the qualifying tournament together. Samuelson was later replaced by Jackie Young (point standings also missing for her). I'd like to see the points tally of these five players, can you provide that?
So even though FIBA says they have had rankings since 2018, you think it is a ruse and need proof of the rankings? Lol, every country in the world would be quick to disqualify us. Only 2 players have to be in the top 10 for your country. Other 2 in the top 50 or a min number of points. The 5 players played tourneys here and there to qualify in 2020. I'm not wasting my time going down a rabbit hole to find 2020 info about something that is obviously true.
 
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That's a very easy statement to make, but you don't know what the next 4-years holds for Caitlin Clark, yourself or for anyone. Although I certainly understand all the presented reasons why CC was not selected. No one on the present team has done more for Women's Basketball as a hole than Caitlin Clark! A chance to represent your Country playing the game you love and have given pretty much your life to is a reward few receive and will cherish the rest of lives. I still believe CC will be put on this team because there are a couple of players with significant injuries and probably won't be able to participate. The fan uproar at leaving Clark off this team will hopefully turn that tide.

UPDATE: Hmm, what could I have possibly said above to earn an angry icon???


Specifically your two statements:

"No one on the present team has done more for Women's Basketball as a hole than Caitlin Clark!"

I think that is very disrespectful to a lot of players. While Clark is very good, and I think will be an All-Star/Olympian over time, right now as the WBB savior, she is kind of right place, right time. (and being white doesn't hurt - shouldn't matter, but it does). DT has helped the WNT win 5 Gold Medals. Clark hasn't even practiced with them yet. And this isn't about WBB, it's about the USA WNT/Olympic team winning a gold medal.

If "WBB fans" (and I use that term extremely loosely, because they are NOT, they are just Clark fans) was what the Olympic was about (gaining WBB fans), then just put Taylor Swift on the team, or have her date one of the players. You'd get a lot more eyes that way.

"The fan uproar at leaving Clark off this team will hopefully turn that tide."

Extremely wrong. I do hope fan uproar is NEVER a deciding factor on who makes a USA Olympic team. THAT is RIDICULOUS. (ok, so maybe there was a little "angry" in there )

(nothing personally, just your statements. Hope that answers your question. )
 
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I'm sorry, but selecting Van Lith over all the others available in this country had to be an arbitrary decision (meaning in this case: an unreasonable act). I have absolutely nothing against her, but c'mon now.

Oh, by the way, I knew where to find the information and was being kind when I thanked you for it. I was simply testing you because of your previous statement. I wanted to make sure you knew where to find it. Please have a nice day, no offense was intended.
1). How is chosing Van Lith arbitrary considering her background and success at 3x3?

2). Testing to see if I knew what I was talking about? That's rich especially considering the tone of your reply to me.
 
I have noticed that you haven't posted any links to support your opinions while asking others to do so. Why is that?
Maybe because I do not believe there are any such posts.
 
1). How is chosing Van Lith arbitrary considering her background and success at 3x3?

2). Testing to see if I knew what I was talking about? That's rich especially considering the tone of your reply to me.
re: #2 - I was joking! Hey, relax, I meant nothing personal and sorry if I have offended you.

re #1 - Van Lith simply doesn't belong on this team. She isn't good enough and there are so many better than her.
 
re: #2 - I was joking! Hey, relax, I meant nothing personal and sorry if I have offended you.

re #1 - Van Lith simply doesn't belong on this team. She isn't good enough and there are so many better than her.
I'm not much of an Hailey Van Lith fan but she absolutely deserves her spot. For one she's paid her dues in 3x3 and has reached a top 10 USA ranking in 3x3 that is a requirement for being selected. Then you add to it that Hailey Van Lith was on the 3x3 gold medal world cup team, it's hard to argue that she doesn't belong after all she's done to get to this point.
 
Hailey and Cierra have made the history of 3x3 so far. Hailey made it with the Junior National Team, Cierra made it as a senior
 
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