Urban Meyer shares secrets on winning

[Jax Husky]

When you have to project other peoples' behavior as a reason to criticize Urban himself, yeah you're stretching big time. You want to keep a self-righteous, holier-than-thou stance about what you perceive to be the "correct" way to run a program and how many arrests are acceptable; how many questionable characters you can recruit, and if a successful coach doesn't mean your arbitrary limit, therefore it's a character flaw.

You're definitely stretching, especially when I know most people are hypocrites and would be doing the same thing if they were paid millions of dollars to win at a major program. Like I said, there's not a single major college coach that isn't taking at-risk kids in their program. The difference is the ones that punish kids for mess ups and actually do attempt to care outside of football. But hey, you'll call that a "character flaw" because again, it doesn't meet your arbitrary code for coaches you hate.

On the first point, you have me wrong. I am not projecting their behavior as a reason. Not totally sure what you mean there, but I do hold coaches responsible for running programs that are not producing criminals. I'm not going to get going on the level of "clean" within a program, but it does matter. Like I said, every school runs into issues, and many deal with them in the right ways. All evidence, and I mean every story, description, police report, and resulting punishments points towards Meyer and the UF as maintaining absolutely no control to the point of creating a complete environment of criminality.

The second part I put in bold out is where I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I do not see any of the reactions of Meyer as appropriate in many of the cases, and there are easy to find descriptions of dozens of these arrests.

 

[Jax Husky]

You mean like the Ohio State fan feverously defending Urban Meyer on the message board of a team that isn't in their conference and doesn't exist within the same universe from a football perspective?

agreed

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

You mean like the Ohio State fan feverously defending Urban Meyer on the message board of a team that isn't in their conference and doesn't exist within the same universe from a football perspective?

When everyone's point is the guy's book is a joke?

Oh but the 10/80/10 rule. Riveting, ground breaking stuff.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

You mean like the Ohio State fan feverously defending Urban Meyer on the message board of a team that isn't in their conference and doesn't exist within the same universe from a football perspective?

When everyone's point is the guy's book is a joke?

So kyleslamb is an OSU fan? That does explain everything.

 

[whaler11]

So kyleslamb is an OSU fan? That does explain everything.

He's a former writer for a bunch of Ohio State recruiting sites.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

He's a former writer for a bunch of Ohio State recruiting sites.

That's hilarious. I wonder if he will still think he is Uber Meyer when Meyer leaves OSU when things go sour.

 

[FartMan69]

Of course Urban Meyer is slimy, that's a quality a lot of the best coaches have, it works though. If the world was turned upside down and Urban Meyer begged to be our head coach, would any of you say no?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Of course Urban Meyer is slimy, that's a quality a lot of the best coaches have, it works though. If the world was turned upside down and Urban Meyer begged to be our head coach, would any of you say no?

Of course not. He's probably the best coach on the planet right now. In any sport. But that has nothing to do with the point some of us are making.

 

[ZooCougar]

Urban Meyer is a sleaze. I remember one of his stud DLs did something bad and Pope Urban gave him a really light punishment, maybe a quarter or two and it was such a joke that the player himself went to Meyer and said his punishment was too light. Urban did stuff like this all the time. Leopards don't change their spots.

 

[kyleslamb]

On the first point, you have me wrong. I am not projecting their behavior as a reason. Not totally sure what you mean there, but I do hold coaches responsible for running programs that are not producing criminals. I'm not going to get going on the level of "clean" within a program, but it does matter. Like I said, every school runs into issues, and many deal with them in the right ways. All evidence, and I mean every story, description, police report, and resulting punishments points towards Meyer and the UF as maintaining absolutely no control to the point of creating a complete environment of criminality.

The second part I put in bold out is where I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I do not see any of the reactions of Meyer as appropriate in many of the cases, and there are easy to find descriptions of dozens of these arrests.

You don't see "any" of the reactions in "many" of the cases. Yet you also don't have all the facts. You don't deal with the people on a daily basis. That's the point I'm driving home. It's all arbitrary. It's easy for people to sit home on a message board and say what is right and wrong. Where do you draw the line? But the coaches, all of them, not just Urban, are the ones that see them every day and have to balance whether these mistakes are ones of immaturity, character or whether they will repeat themselves. It's easy to play Monday QB and criticize punishment or lack thereof, but it's especially easy when you aren't the one with an established relationship. This stance I have doesn't just apply to Urban Meyer. I get irritated when sports fans do it to pretty much every team but their own. You can find the same discussion about Coach K, Boeheim, Roy Williams, Pete Carroll, Nick Saban and pretty much every successful college coach ever.

If you heard the Dan Patrick interview, I think Meyer alluded to things being shaky at the end at Florida. I think by his own admission, he let too many people off the hook. You are insinuating it's some sort of win-at-all-costs mentality. Yet, also by his own admission, he says he's really taken a more strict approach to recruiting character and in four years at Ohio State, how many arrests have there been? One? Two? Not very many. That implies that his approach was never to win at all costs. Whatever the line was, clearly it wasn't intentional. That's why these discussions are so ridiculous, especialy since I think everyone in this thread would agree they'd still take Urban as their head coach. Which leads to my final question: if this mentality is a flaw of his, or any coach for that matter, but fans would still gladly take the coach that compromise such an arbitrary line, can they really take an ethical stance about it?

 

[kyleslamb]

You mean like the Ohio State fan feverously defending Urban Meyer on the message board of a team that isn't in their conference and doesn't exist within the same universe from a football perspective?

When everyone's point is the guy's book is a joke?

Oh yeah, God forbid we talk about football with people outside our own small cliques on message boards! Oh the horror!

 

[kyleslamb]

That's hilarious. I wonder if he will still think he is Uber Meyer when Meyer leaves OSU when things go sour.

I was advocating for Urban Meyer back when he was at Bowling Green there, dude. I met him at BG and knew some people that have worked with him, for him, close to him, etc. over the years. I was having these exact same discussions with folks when he was winning titles at Florida, saying people needed to set aside their hate and be objective about how good he is at his job.

He can be coaching in Timbuktu or Tennessee for his next job, and I'll feel the same way I have about him for the past 10 years. My judgment actually comes from being familiar with his work on a daily basis, not just blindly hating every successful coach that isn't my own.

For the record, I had the same conversations with Ohio State fans back when Urban was at Florida. I was dismissing the same tired arguments from jilted Buckeye fans. This isn't unique to today.

 

[whaler11]

Oh yeah, God forbid we talk about football with people outside our own small cliques on message boards! Oh the horror!

First of all you aren't talking football. You were mocking posters with nonsense about message board psychology. Maybe look in the mirror?

You might not be as bright as you think: It's not as though posters randomly just started bashing him. Some gullible poster who believes everything he hears mentioned the nonsense the coach was spewing on the radio.

It's got nothing to do with jealousy or hatred to point out when someone is so ridiculously full of crap. You jumping in with over the top nonsense is just a cherry on a sundae. Not sure which comment was better - challenging a poster they couldn't comprehend because they had never managed anyone or that Meyer had so many scumbags on his team because he was trying to help turn their lives around.

It's nice you've randomly had a hard on for the guy since he was a Bowling Green - not everyone subscribes to the ends justify the means when it comes to college sports. Some people actually went to the schools being discussed and have a different relationship than just winning at every cost.

 

[Kgun7]

He's a former writer for a bunch of Ohio State recruiting sites.

I would have guessed Penn State ............ the passionate, blind allegiance totally gave it away ....

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

I was advocating for Urban Meyer back when he was at Bowling Green there, dude. I met him at BG and knew some people that have worked with him, for him, close to him, etc. over the years. I was having these exact same discussions with folks when he was winning titles at Florida, saying people needed to set aside their hate and be objective about how good he is at his job.

He can be coaching in Timbuktu or Tennessee for his next job, and I'll feel the same way I have about him for the past 10 years. My judgment actually comes from being familiar with his work on a daily basis, not just blindly hating every successful coach that isn't my own.

For the record, I had the same conversations with Ohio State fans back when Urban was at Florida. I was dismissing the same tired arguments from jilted Buckeye fans. This isn't unique to today.

The difference between you and this board, is that in your own words you are "advocating" for him. It sounds like at some point in your career, Uber Meyer gave you a wink and a hello and ever since then you have carried a torch for him. This board on the other hand, really has no connection to Meyer. His teams have never played a UConn team and he has never been part of any coaching search at UConn. Ohio State currently (and hopefully this will change) has no link at all to UConn.

I would guess our opinion of Uber's antics are a bit less biased than a recruiting site writer who calls himself an advocate for Urban Meyer. Throwing out the "all message board posters hate successful coaches" theory is silly and just makes you look sad.

 

[whaler11]

Yes when Meyer was party to sneaking AH off to Florida on a recruiting trip after his father died - it was for the opportunity to mentor him and improve his lot in life. The fact he was one of the best prospects in the country was a secondary concern.

I don't know if I'd play the mentor card when you have the mentees' lives playing out so poorly...

If the kid wasn't so darn articulate the locals could have fixed it!

 

[noeynox]

First of all you aren't talking football. You were mocking posters with nonsense about message board psychology. Maybe look in the mirror?

You might not be as bright as you think: It's not as though posters randomly just started bashing him. Some gullible poster who believes everything he hears mentioned the nonsense the coach was spewing on the radio.

It's got nothing to do with jealousy or hatred to point out when someone is so ridiculously full of crap. You jumping in with over the top nonsense is just a cherry on a sundae. Not sure which comment was better - challenging a poster they couldn't comprehend because they had never managed anyone or that Meyer had so many scumbags on his team because he was trying to help turn their lives around.

It's nice you've randomly had a hard on for the guy since he was a Bowling Green - not everyone subscribes to the ends justify the means when it comes to college sports. Some people actually went to the schools being discussed and have a different relationship than just winning at every cost.

Stuff like this makes me a tad uncomfortable. We had Coach Jim Calhoun who we love, but he wasn't above bringing in a kid like Nate Miles, or Doug Wiggins. Heck Eric Heyward was as nice and quiet as a kid as you could meet and he got into some pretty hot water after leaving UConn. My point is, almost all big winning college coaches, take flyers on questionable kids they believe will help them win and I believe the more successful the coach, the longer the rope he has in this department. A less successful coach does not survive the Nate Miles fiasco, and I doubt a coach without so much built in goodwill with his fanbase tries to bring in a kid like that. In Calhoun's defense he had brought in a player with a pretty bad background in Caron Butler and not only was he good while at UConn he has continued to serve as role model for young men throughout his NBA tenure. He probably reasoned the same thing could happen with Miles.

Urban Meyer is in that category. He could drop a deuce on someone's front step and OSU supporters will lash out at you for stepping in it and ruining his work of art.

 

[whaler11]

Stuff like this makes me a tad uncomfortable. We had Coach Jim Calhoun who we love, but he wasn't above bringing in a kid like Nate Miles, or Doug Wiggins. Heck Eric Heyward was as nice and quiet as a kid as you could meet and he got into some pretty hot water after leaving UConn. My point is, almost all big winning college coaches, take flyers on questionable kids they believe will help them win and I believe the more successful the coach, the longer the rope he has in this department. A less successful coach does not survive the Nate Miles fiasco, and I doubt a coach without so much built in goodwill with his fanbase tries to bring in a kid like that. In Calhoun's defense he had brought in a player with a pretty bad background in Caron Butler and not only was he good while at UConn he has continued to serve as role model for young men throughout his NBA tenure. He probably reasoned the same thing could happen with Miles.

Urban Meyer is in that category. He could drop a deuce on someone's front step and OSU supporters will lash out at you for stepping in it and ruining his work of art.

Yeah the issue isn't taking chances on kids. That's commendable. I'm sure Meyer has examples like Caron Butler too.

The issue is taking chances on kids, letting them run wild and then pretending in your book and in the national media that you are somehow the king of ethics and character.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Stuff like this makes me a tad uncomfortable. We had Coach Jim Calhoun who we love, but he wasn't above bringing in a kid like Nate Miles, or Doug Wiggins. Heck Eric Heyward was as nice and quiet as a kid as you could meet and he got into some pretty hot water after leaving UConn. My point is, almost all big winning college coaches, take flyers on questionable kids they believe will help them win and I believe the more successful the coach, the longer the rope he has in this department. A less successful coach does not survive the Nate Miles fiasco, and I doubt a coach without so much built in goodwill with his fanbase tries to bring in a kid like that. In Calhoun's defense he had brought in a player with a pretty bad background in Caron Butler and not only was he good while at UConn he has continued to serve as role model for young men throughout his NBA tenure. He probably reasoned the same thing could happen with Miles.

Urban Meyer is in that category. He could drop a deuce on someone's front step and OSU supporters will lash out at you for stepping in it and ruining his work of art.

I don't know why this makes you uncomfortable? We all admit we'd take Meyer as a coach in a heartbeat. The main point of contention is not what Meyer does or doesn't do in terms of running his program. It's the complete hypocritical nature of the farce that is his book that people are calling BS on.

If anything is making me uncomfy it's this kyle fella's very odd defense of Urban. Like I said earlier, this clown makes the JoePa sycophants look like choir boys.

 

[noeynox]

Yeah the issue isn't taking chances on kids. That's commendable. I'm sure Meyer has examples like Caron Butler too.

The issue is taking chances on kids, letting them run wild and then pretending in your book and in the national media that you are somehow the king of ethics and character.

Absolutely fair on your part. In fact, as I listened to the Francessa interview I had two thoughts, his ruthlessness is what makes him great, he will run off kids that won't help him win, and the second one was, where was "leadership" when his Florida teams were running wild?

He is trying to sell a book, and his sycophant fans will rush to buy it to put a few extra bucks in his pocket.

 

[noeynox]

I don't know why this makes you uncomfortable? We all admit we'd take Meyer as a coach in a heartbeat. The main point of contention is not what Meyer does or doesn't do in terms of running his program. It's the complete hypocritical nature of the farce that is his book that people are calling BS on.

If anything is making me uncomfy it's this kyle fella's very odd defense of Urban. Like I said earlier, this clown makes the JoePa sycophants look like choir boys.

I was more responding, to the part in Whaler's post that I highlighted. To my knowledge, no Urban Meyer program has faced wrath of the NCAA once he leaves unlike say a Larry Brown or Butch Davis. So yeah, hiring him for me justifies the means in terms of winning but if I had a kid at a school he coached at, I would hope his players weren't running around campus getting away with all kinds of BS.

 

[kyleslamb]

The difference between you and this board, is that in your own words you are "advocating" for him. It sounds like at some point in your career, Uber Meyer gave you a wink and a hello and ever since then you have carried a torch for him. This board on the other hand, really has no connection to Meyer. His teams have never played a UConn team and he has never been part of any coaching search at UConn. Ohio State currently (and hopefully this will change) has no link at all to UConn.

I would guess our opinion of Uber's antics are a bit less biased than a recruiting site writer who calls himself an advocate for Urban Meyer. Throwing out the "all message board posters hate successful coaches" theory is silly and just makes you look sad.

I'm advocating for him in that I know what his actual thoughts and values are, and his motivation for why he does things. That's a critical component to analyzing someone's actions. It's easy to get on a message board and say someone is slimy, but if they don't have all or most of the information for why things are done, it's a hollow analysis.

 

[kyleslamb]

Absolutely fair on your part. In fact, as I listened to the Francessa interview I had two thoughts, his ruthlessness is what makes him great, he will run off kids that won't help him win, and the second one was, where was "leadership" when his Florida teams were running wild?

He is trying to sell a book, and his sycophant fans will rush to buy it to put a few extra bucks in his pocket.

Meyer has been pretty frank that things went too far at the end of his Florida tenure. Listen to the Dan Patrick interview, he specifically noted that one thing he learned was character needs to be a huge emphasis in recruiting. He says he asks a lot more pointed questions in interviews with kids at Ohio State than he did at Florida. The point here was that unlike some assertions being made, he was never at win at all costs mode. He said he made some mistakes in recruiting some guys that he wouldn't make at this point in his career.

Not all coaches are what people perceive them to be. They're human. They evolve and adapt.

 

[kyleslamb]

I don't know why this makes you uncomfortable? We all admit we'd take Meyer as a coach in a heartbeat. The main point of contention is not what Meyer does or doesn't do in terms of running his program. It's the complete hypocritical nature of the farce that is his book that people are calling BS on.

If anything is making me uncomfy it's this kyle fella's very odd defense of Urban. Like I said earlier, this clown makes the JoePa sycophants look like choir boys.

There's nothing very odd about what I'm saying. There's something extremely odd about comparing a 'defense' of Urban Meyer's ethics to that of whether someone aggressively reported a rape of children.

It says a lot about you if you actually think that's worse.

 

[noeynox]

Meyer has been pretty frank that things went too far at the end of his Florida tenure. Listen to the Dan Patrick interview, he specifically noted that one thing he learned was character needs to be a huge emphasis in recruiting. He says he asks a lot more pointed questions in interviews with kids at Ohio State than he did at Florida. The point here was that unlike some assertions being made, he was never at win at all costs mode. He said he made some mistakes in recruiting some guys that he wouldn't make at this point in his career.

Not all coaches are what people perceive them to be. They're human. They evolve and adapt.

Clearly you see he is in a different place now. Yeah he has evolved, but much like John Calipari, his previous methods in recruiting has taken him to a place where he could be "more selective" in recruiting based on character yada, yada, yada. You have to see that it comes off as disingenuous. I like Urban Meyer, he goes nose to nose with the likes of Saban and doesn't give an inch, but lets be honest. He is like every other coach out there willing to do what it takes to get to the mountain top, once there you can paint whatever picture you want.