Updates on the Gampel Roof repairs?

[MilfordHusky]

Interesting thread.

Cameron is rather small and dated, but also iconic. Has there been discussion about expanding or replacing it?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Notice they have 3 lines tethering them so should they fall it would only be a minor fall--unlike the Empire State construction--no tethers---100 times higher.

Classic photograph. No freaking way would I do that.

 

[Alydar]

Maybe, or maybe not. It depends on whether they used the exact same roof design or not. It's obviously a pretty high maintenance choice, given the cost to replace it is what, more than a third of what it cost to build the entire place 27 years ago?

A new roof costs a third of the original price after 27 years? Peanuts. The Arrigoni Bridge was built in 1938 for 3.5 million. After 62 years it cost $35 million just to repaint it.

I will be shocked if the roof is done by the start of the season. This is a unique roof and there is little history for estimating. Having worked with construction contracts for the government I can almost guarantee that unexpected issues will arise that will extend the completion date.

 

[MilfordHusky]

A new roof costs a third of the original price after 27 years? Peanuts. The Arrigoni Bridge was built in 1938 for 3.5 million. After 62 years it cost $35 million just to repaint it.

I will be shocked if the roof is done by the start of the season. This is a unique roof and there is little history for estimating. Having worked with construction contracts for the government I can almost guarantee that unexpected issues will arise that will extend the completion date.

The cost estimate to repair and renovate the Houses of Parliament is about $9 Billion.

 

[j66kicker]

A new roof costs a third of the original price after 27 years? Peanuts. The Arrigoni Bridge was built in 1938 for 3.5 million. After 62 years it cost $35 million just to repaint it.

I will be shocked if the roof is done by the start of the season. This is a unique roof and there is little history for estimating. Having worked with construction contracts for the government I can almost guarantee that unexpected issues will arise that will extend the completion date.

Maybe lots of away games early in the season?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Maybe lots of away games early in the season?

Six seasons of away games. I think, by having the members move out for 6 years or so, they can keep the cost down to $9 billion.

Home | Palace of Westminster Restoration and Renewal

Palace of Westminster renovation 'could take 32 years and cost £5.7bn'

 

[j66kicker]

Six seasons of away games. I think, by having the members move out for 6 years or so, they can keep the cost down to $9 billion.

Home | Palace of Westminster Restoration and Renewal

Palace of Westminster renovation 'could take 32 years and cost £5.7bn'

Ok now we don't feel so bad

 

[MilfordHusky]

As the late Everett Dirksen famously said, "A billion here, a billion there , pretty soon, you're talking real money."

P.S. This is a real Time cover.

 

[Jaybird65]

From a couple days ago...work is progressing on schedule...contractor has completion milestone dates to meet on a section by section basis...thus far these milestones have been met & the late October completion date is still on track...work teams are working on the exterior & interior simultaneously.... As far as out on the dome goes, I have no idea as to how these folks are working on summer days....a project manager on the job who has gone up on the dome has said the temp up on the roof is significantly hotter than on the ground due to the reflection of the sun

 

[triaddukefan]

Cameron is rather small and dated, but also iconic. Has there been discussion about expanding or replacing it?

Duke is finishing up a 150 million dollar renovation project to its athletic campus (100 million towards the football stadium)...... if their was a time for Cameron to expand its seating area... this would have been the time to do it. They did finish an expansion project at Cameron last season (20 million dollars) .......... greatly expanded the lobby area on the first floor, and created a Champions Club on the concourse level. That being said... It would probably be cheaper to build a new arena than to expand it. I cant envision a situation where Cameron is replaced .... at least not in my lifetime. Its the ideal sized arena for a smaller type private school.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Classic photograph. No freaking way would I do that.

On a recent history Channel it was said--pictures like this were staged with a photo back drop---
But every time I see this my knees get weak. Mohawk , first people/Indians, filled many of those Iron-knocker jobs--most had a lack of fear of heights.
In my foolish pre-college youth---I worked on a domed roof, and in that time--no one thought of tethering--it got in the way of work--and there was always another nut needing the job.

 

[BroadwayVa]

A new roof costs a third of the original price after 27 years? Peanuts. The Arrigoni Bridge was built in 1938 for 3.5 million. After 62 years it cost $35 million just to repaint it.

I will be shocked if the roof is done by the start of the season. This is a unique roof and there is little history for estimating. Having worked with construction contracts for the government I can almost guarantee that unexpected issues will arise that will extend the completion date.

Miss leading cost differentials- and better quality paint -higher paid painters--multiply the 1938 cost by about 30---the Gampel original costs by 20 and it brings them closer to the current equivalent with inflation adjusted costs. 1938 prices were depression cost--material and labor were about the lowest of the century.
Politician--usually don't do the hard thing--spend the money now --buy more, buy better-now--but 25 years from now is a long time --not! Rt 81 is being widened and repaired and bridges/cross overs added--the once farm or wooded land--now has houses on it--COSTs

 

[BroadwayVa]

As the late Everett Dirksen famously said, "A billion here, a billion there , pretty soon, you're talking real money."

P.S. This is a real Time cover.

I believe the actual quote was: A Million here and a million there--pretty soon we are talking real money! I guess it was updated to the Billion because no one would believe a million was a lot of money---Just think a millionaire today --would only be worth 50,000 in 1960.

 

[Alydar]

Miss leading cost differentials- and better quality paint -higher paid painters--multiply the 1938 cost by about 30---the Gampel original costs by 20 and it brings them closer to the current equivalent with inflation adjusted costs. 1938 prices were depression cost--material and labor were about the lowest of the century.
Politician--usually don't do the hard thing--spend the money now --buy more, buy better-now--but 25 years from now is a long time --not! Rt 81 is being widened and repaired and bridges/cross overs added--the once farm or wooded land--now has houses on it--COSTs

The high cost of painting had nothing to do with the cost of either the new paint or the labor, it was the cost of removing the old lead paint, none of which could be allowed to pollute the river.

You are right about elected officials being near-sighted. They see only as far as the next election.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

When I came to CT in August 1973 from MO I went up to Hartford on Route 85 to Route 11 to Route 2. Coming home I had to get off in Salem and back to 85. I was told that the Route 11 project ran out of money falling $11 million short. You would think some visionary would say it's only going to get MORE expensive if we delay! Now some state agencies are saying it'll take close to a billion $ to finish Route 11! Keeping the dangerous 85 as one of the methods of getting to Hartford!

Back in the '90's East Lyme wanted to put additions on ELHS for the academic end and also a pool and field house complex.
The plans were drawn up with the pool being in the basement with 100 lockers for boys and 100 lockers for girls, training room, PE classrooms, and BB court and offices on first floor. The financing had approximately 72% returned by the state & federal! At the last minute they eliminated the athletic addition. They just put a pool in. After construction was finished the school board wanted to add an athletic addition and was priced out leaving an educational section for the 21st century and an athletic section that is back in the 1960's!

Two examples where forward planning would have solved many problems we face today in CT and EL!

 

[BroadwayVa]

The high cost of painting had nothing to do with the cost of either the new paint or the labor, it was the cost of removing the old lead paint, none of which could be allowed to pollute the river.

You are right about elected officials being near-sighted. They see only as far as the next election.

The real cost of removing LEAD paint is the Labor--unless they are now using robots--and the poopy suits, breathing apparatus, the clean up areas--the containment, rules and regulation---lead paint removal --IS Labor intensive---jobs that take an hour-with regulations are hours longer--Time is money--look in the clock. Protecting rivers is pushing the late button--but I'm for it---there are extremely few, if ANY, clean rivers left-- However --since the day man walked upright--he threw everything into rivers or the ocean. Out of sight--out of mind.
If elected officials would do what they are paid for--that would reduce the population--25 percent would keel over in disbelief!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

The high cost of painting had nothing to do with the cost of either the new paint or the labor, it was the cost of removing the old lead paint, none of which could be allowed to pollute the river.

You are right about elected officials being near-sighted. They see only as far as the next election.

I missed your reference to --lead paint containment in your initial posting--that alone would have tilted the cost --as you so artfully stated in the follow up. Are you sure your aren't a senator???

 

[Alydar]

I missed your reference to --lead paint containment in your initial posting--that alone would have tilted the cost --as you so artfully stated in the follow up. Are you sure your aren't a senator???

Not at all. My post wasn't intended to be artful. The contract was titled "Painting of Bridge No XXX Arrigoni Bridge (Rte 66) over the CT River. (I don't recall the Br #).It's normal that steel bridge painting jobs includes the removal of the old paint. Perhaps I should have assumed that most aren't as familiar with this type of project as I so for that I apologize. My entire reason for posting was to show that the cost of repairing public structures is often much more than the original cost of those structures, not to mislead.

Labor is certainly a large part of the cost but it's the fact that they had to use containment and maintain negative air pressure within the containment that made it so expensive. It's not the hourly rate of the workers but the enormous amount of time that process involves. That and the fact that the bridge had to be kept open to traffic for the entire time.

Furthermore, it's not public employees who design and build these structures. It's done by private industry. But then, as we saw during the Rowland administration, elected officials can't always be trusted to hire the most qualified or efficient private contractors.

 

[CL82]

In my foolish pre-college youth---I worked on a domed roof, and in that time--no one thought of tethering--it got in the way of work--and there was always another nut needing the job.

Is this you?

 

[Jaybird65]

The project manager on the job is planning on putting out a video update on progress next week. I will make sure it gets posted here.

 

[Monte]

Completion date is end of October, and First Night is still cancelled.

Do what all my neighbors do: PUT A BLUE TARP OVER ANY HOLES IN THE ROOF!

 

[huskymedic]

The project manager on the job is planning on putting out a video update on progress next week. I will make sure it gets posted here.

 

[BroadwayVa]

When I came to CT in August 1973 from MO I went up to Hartford on Route 85 to Route 11 to Route 2. Coming home I had to get off in Salem and back to 85. I was told that the Route 11 project ran out of money falling $11 million short. You would think some visionary would say it's only going to get MORE expensive if we delay! Now some state agencies are saying it'll take close to a billion $ to finish Route 11! Keeping the dangerous 85 as one of the methods of getting to Hartford!

Back in the '90's East Lyme wanted to put additions on ELHS for the academic end and also a pool and field house complex.
The plans were drawn up with the pool being in the basement with 100 lockers for boys and 100 lockers for girls, training room, PE classrooms, and BB court and offices on first floor. The financing had approximately 72% returned by the state & federal! At the last minute they eliminated the athletic addition. They just put a pool in. After construction was finished the school board wanted to add an athletic addition and was priced out leaving an educational section for the 21st century and an athletic section that is back in the 1960's!

Two examples where forward planning would have solved many problems we face today in CT and EL!

I used to go to Bristol, then to Middletown, to Rt 2(past the Dew Drop Inn) and on to my vacation resort--US Naval Aux Air Station in Charlestown, RI. (now a wild life refuge--but still has British metric tools buried there)
I'm a believer in preplanning and pre buying to offset the can that was kicked down the road syndrome --which is within each administration state of fed.
What intrigued me more than everything else is you came from Missouri to Hartford--WHY?
I know a dozen and know of at least one Collier, from Mo--every one has been a terrific person--

 

[BroadwayVa]

Is this you?

I only wish---I was lucky --I got to enjoy the fresh air, winter or summer--. Funny, it was fun while doing it--retrospect --maybe not so great.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Not at all. My post wasn't intended to be artful. The contract was titled "Painting of Bridge No XXX Arrigoni Bridge (Rte 66) over the CT River. (I don't recall the Br #).It's normal that steel bridge painting jobs includes the removal of the old paint. Perhaps I should have assumed that most aren't as familiar with this type of project as I so for that I apologize. My entire reason for posting was to show that the cost of repairing public structures is often much more than the original cost of those structures, not to mislead.

Labor is certainly a large part of the cost but it's the fact that they had to use containment and maintain negative air pressure within the containment that made it so expensive. It's not the hourly rate of the workers but the enormous amount of time that process involves. That and the fact that the bridge had to be kept open to traffic for the entire time.

Furthermore, it's not public employees who design and build these structures. It's done by private industry. But then, as we saw during the Rowland administration, elected officials can't always be trusted to hire the most qualified or efficient private contractors.

It may not be Public employess who actually design the bridge--but it is government employees that get to second guess and modify nearly every section of the contract as it was written and to bring in modifications to the building as it gets in progress---Done Contract monitoring, writing, and shredding for analysis--I believe two things---engineers overdesign-but once the engineering is done , build to the engineering specification--with out modifications (assuming the engineering was checked and triple checked) it will usually be least costly.
I worked with a group of Engineers in South Windsor--designs would go to the company President for review--he say take this out, that out, you don't need this--etc--he was brilliant--and the designs usually were better and cost effective--engineers overdesign at least on the first run.
Same comment Time is MONEY--and over-runs due to modifications --are time and money--look in the clock.