University of Tennessee Women's Basketball

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How badly have things fallen off since Pat Summit stopped coaching? Is it as bad as I have been led to believe?

I firmly believe that UConn will still be UConn after Geno steps down, because CD or Shea will continue the standard of excellence. I don't expect the same level of performance, but I do expect UConn to still be in the conversation from a national perspective every year.
 

oldude

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CD has indicated she plans to retire when Geno retires. Whether or not Shea gets the HC job or even wants it now that she’s a mom remains to be seen.

While I absolutely expect that UConn will hire a very good HC to replace Geno, it’s always a challenge to replace a legend.
 

nwhoopfan

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I know this topic has come up before. Because the NCAA has sponsored men's basketball for a MUCH longer time frame, we've been able to see some schools such as Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas (there are others but I won't try to list everybody) continue to be very successful across different eras and different coaches.

We really haven't seen that with women's hoops yet. Tennessee hasn't been the same w/out Pat, it remains to be seen if they can get back. We have to wait and see when coaches like Geno, Tara and Muffett retire. I don't think there is one example of a women's basketball program that has been elite under more than 1 coach.


edit--early powerhouses like Old Dominion and Louisiana Tech have fallen off the radar, to a lesser degree schools like USC and Texas have also fallen precipitously from their former status.
 
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CD has indicated she plans to retire when Geno retires. Whether or not Shea gets the HC job or even wants it now that she’s a mom remains to be seen.

While I absolutely expect that UConn will hire a very good HC to replace Geno, it’s always a challenge to replace a legend.
Always the truth from you, as expected! Legends or just longtime, or more than average coaches with a long time following are next to impossible to replace (according to fans) should they be better some fans may take offense--she is winning only because PAT set up this team to win. If she should lose, she ain't no Geno!! I.E. You cant win for losing1! One will need a huge EGO (exceptional Confidence) to step into Geno's shoes. Holley, in her defense, didn't step in --she was anointed. While she actually didn't fail miserably she lost many games UT would never have lost. She had ooodles of talent and should have won it all but never got near the FF. Was she a bad coach--while I dissed her regularly--I'm not qualified to make that decision--allow the WCBB historians to do that..
 
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I know this topic has come up before. Because the NCAA has sponsored men's basketball for a MUCH longer time frame, we've been able to see some schools such as Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas (there are others but I won't try to list everybody) continue to be very successful across different eras and different coaches.

We really haven't seen that with women's hoops yet. Tennessee hasn't been the same w/out Pat, it remains to be seen if they can get back. We have to wait and see when coaches like Geno, Tara and Muffett retire. I don't think there is one example of a women's basketball program that has been elite under more than 1 coach.


edit--early powerhouses like Old Dominion and Louisiana Tech have fallen off the radar, to a lesser degree schools like USC and Texas have also fallen precipitously from their former status.
ODU was big time in a lesser WCBB world, LaTech about the same. They set some standards and each played Uconn hard fun games. I believe much is in the managment of the schools and their willingness to spend the dollars to recruit, build to suit, and hire top coaching. All schools can't or won't do that. We are lucky Geno with his sparkiling personality conned Uconn into hiring him and then to put up the money to make this a top program. Now his kids all fly first class, live away from home first class, eat in top joints, see the best theater or any thing of culture a kid should see including Italy and all of Europe-----thanks to CD and Geno (in that order)
 

vowelguy

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How badly have things fallen off since Pat Summit stopped coaching? Is it as bad as I have been led to believe?

I firmly believe that UConn will still be UConn after Geno steps down, because CD or Shea will continue the standard of excellence. I don't expect the same level of performance, but I do expect UConn to still be in the conversation from a national perspective every year.
“Husky bass” is an unfortunate moniker to start a TN thread as evokes memories of Aurabass, a particularly loathesome Vol fan from the Summitt days of yore.

The idea that UConn will fare significantly better than TN post-legendary-coach is extreme optimism.

Jamelle and Tonya have basically proven that you can’t learn Geno — he has innate, largely non-transferable talent.
And unless the university’s financial situation improves dramatically on the next decade, the chance that it will be able to bid for the highest talent is in doubt.
 
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I’m sure others on this board know much more than I do, but has Taurasi ever expressed a desire or interest in coaching? She’s very Geno-like in many ways so I think that would stay fairly consistent and she also has the pedigree and resume to prove she knows the game. I just imagine she might pick up a few too many techs if she ever were in charge of an entire team!
 
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I don't believe anyone will dispute what a great coach Geno is. The same could be said for Muffit and Tara and a handful of other coaches. Still coaching is not the only reason why no team will ever dominate as UConn did for the last few decades. The WCBB landscape has changed. Some of it has to do with the rise of AAU and the fact that almost every elite player has an individual trainer before the even hit high school. This makes development in college somewhat less relevant and that certainly affects the number of players who use to gravitate to the very few top programs that had a reputation in that respect.

The number of good coaches has also increased exponentially. It used to be that the coaching ranks were totally dominated by ex-players many of which did not keep up with the level of skill that transformed the Women's game these latter years. Players more often than not do not always make the best coaches. I don't believe that Geno or the other rising top male coaches ever played in either the WCBB or the WNBA. Not only has the level of skill of the Women changed, but the standard and level of coaches in WCBB. The newer coaches naturally copying the successful existing programs..

Holly was just an example of a coach that was a dinosaur and could never be a top-level coach in todays WCBB landscape. You can not just do what you learned to do when you were a player. The dynamics have and are still changing and a coach has to be creative and flexible enough to adjust. As much as Holly deserved the criticism she got, she was right about one thing. She said that even Pat would have a hard time dealing with the type of players coming out of high school today. She more than likely would have adjusted unlike Holly who couldn't.

The last few years, where a different team has won the championship will probably to the rule rather than the exception for WCBB in the future going forward. Just too many good programs drawing players away from the former fewer top programs.
 

msf22b

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Jamelle and Tonya have basically proven that you can’t learn Geno — he has innate, largely non-transferable talent...Vowelguy

I agree...the trick will be to find an inspired, great coach
Becky Hammon? perhaps...
Cheryl Reeve might be great...see how she's improved Phee's game.

There'll be people, not Geno, no one will be Geno...but excellent, yes.
 

DefenseBB

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I’m sure others on this board know much more than I do, but has Taurasi ever expressed a desire or interest in coaching? She’s very Geno-like in many ways so I think that would stay fairly consistent and she also has the pedigree and resume to prove she knows the game. I just imagine she might pick up a few too many techs if she ever were in charge of an entire team!
Gawd NO! She is the GOAT but no way should she get the reins of this program without having earned her coaching chops. Other than Dawn Staley (who, BTW earned every bit of her coaching resume by building 2 programs) name me a superstar who has led a P5 program to prominence in her first job, heck even in her 2nd or 3rd job? Whelan is still too new so...you don’t turn the keys over on a Rolls Royce Sweptail to some one who never drove before.
 

DefenseBB

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Jamelle and Tonya have basically proven that you can’t learn Geno — he has innate, largely non-transferable talent...Vowelguy

I agree...the trick will be to find an inspired, great coach
Becky Hammon? perhaps...
Cheryl Reeve might be great...see how she's improved Phee's game.

There'll be people, not Geno, no one will be Geno...but excellent, yes.
Scott Rueck...:rolleyes:
 

bballnut90

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How badly have things fallen off since Pat Summit stopped coaching? Is it as bad as I have been led to believe?

I firmly believe that UConn will still be UConn after Geno steps down, because CD or Shea will continue the standard of excellence. I don't expect the same level of performance, but I do expect UConn to still be in the conversation from a national perspective every year.
In theory, yes, but a lot will depend on if UCONN will fork up $$ for a good coach. Tennessee clearly didnt/hasnt and we've seen them disappear into (relative) oblivion . If UCONN takes a dip in the next few years or shortly after Geno retires, it might be tough to overcome playing in a weak conference. All comes down to coaching and recruiting IMO.

Surprisingly, no one in Pat or Geno's coaching tree has found a consistent high level of success at the D1. Might be smart to go outside of his tree, but obviously I assume he'll have a big say in who replaces him.
 
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CD has indicated she plans to retire when Geno retires. Whether or not Shea gets the HC job or even wants it now that she’s a mom remains to be seen.

While I absolutely expect that UConn will hire a very good HC to replace Geno, it’s always a challenge to replace a legend.
That day will come. The question is who replaces Geno.? A UConn alum, or the best coach available that wants the challenge?

Personally, I would like to see Sue Bird take the baton from Geno. Even though she does not have head coach experience (she can hire an assistant that does), she has name recognition, knows the game and can relate to 18-22 year olds. Bird would be real easy to pull for.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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ODU was big time in a lesser WCBB world, LaTech about the same. They set some standards and each played Uconn hard fun games. I believe much is in the managment of the schools and their willingness to spend the dollars to recruit, build to suit, and hire top coaching. All schools can't or won't do that. We are lucky Geno with his sparkiling personality conned Uconn into hiring him and then to put up the money to make this a top program. Now his kids all fly first class, live away from home first class, eat in top joints, see the best theater or any thing of culture a kid should see including Italy and all of Europe-----thanks to CD and Geno (in that order)
As to ODU and La Tech, ultimately, they didn't have the dollars to spend to recruit and hire top coaches (although La Tech tried harder post Barmore than ODU did post Wendy Larry).

ODU "rose" in the lesser WCBB world and maintained for quote a while through a recruiting pipeline that brought some really special players. Once they could no longer get the players . . .

La Tech was the product of one of the truly great coaches, Leon Barmore. La Tech's recruiting problems post Leon were mired in the level of competition within their conference, and even before he retired it was getting harder and harder to get the necessary P5 OOC competition to prepare your team for the post-season.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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As much as Holly deserved the criticism she got, she was right about one thing. She said that even Pat would have a hard time dealing with the type of players coming out of high school today. She more than likely would have adjusted unlike Holly who couldn't.

The last few years, where a different team has won the championship will probably to the rule rather than the exception for WCBB in the future going forward. Just too many good programs drawing players away from the former fewer top programs.
Pat would have adjusted, yes. But, because she was Pat, she wouldn't have had to adjust as much as, for example, Holly needed to adjust.

The same is true for any of the long term successful coaches. Folks want to play for them and will put up with a bit more than for a newer coach.
 

SimpleDawg

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nwhoopfan makes a great point. But I think if there's a school that can be the first to resurrect itself back to former glory... it's Tennessee. USC, Old Dominion, and Louisiana Tech don't really have much of a fanbase anymore. Tennessee still has a huge contingent of fans..... still in the top 6 biggest fanbase for a washed up program. I know fans don't win games, but it just shows the level of commitment the school has. Obviously you need a certain amount of resources and looks like Knoxville will continue to allot a certain amount for their womens bb program...I just think that there's a saying that history persists.

I think the main reason no schools have been elite under 2 different coaches yet is because it's still a relatively new sport and I think it's all about the coaching in this game. Programs follow more of a gradation in this sport than in men's basketball where you see more unpredictable moments. All of the current top programs were built up and there's usually a single architect behind it.
 

bballnut90

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That day will come. The question is who replaces Geno.? A UConn alum, or the best coach available that wants the challenge?

Personally, I would like to see Sue Bird take the baton from Geno. Even though she does not have head coach experience (she can hire an assistant that does), she has name recognition, knows the game and can relate to 18-22 year olds. Bird would be real easy to pull for.
Bird seems very happy living in Seattle the last 17 years...I'd be surprised if she decides to leave the west coast, especially as long as she is with Rapinoe. Not sure why, but I also get the feeling she'd be more likely to go the NBA route than WCBB.
 
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Gawd NO! She is the GOAT but no way should she get the reins of this program without having earned her coaching chops. Other than Dawn Staley (who, BTW earned every bit of her coaching resume by building 2 programs) name me a superstar who has led a P5 program to prominence in her first job, heck even in her 2nd or 3rd job? Whelan is still too new so...you don’t turn the keys over on a Rolls Royce Sweptail to some one who never drove before.
Hey I never said she’d get the job without experience! But her professional career is coming to a close within the next few years and I imagine that after a few years of learning (especially if under Geno and CD’s tutelage) she could step into the role and be successful.
 
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I don't believe anyone will dispute what a great coach Geno is. The same could be said for Muffit and Tara and a handful of other coaches. Still coaching is not the only reason why no team will ever dominate as UConn did for the last few decades. The WCBB landscape has changed. Some of it has to do with the rise of AAU and the fact that almost every elite player has an individual trainer before the even hit high school. This makes development in college somewhat less relevant and that certainly affects the number of players who use to gravitate to the very few top programs that had a reputation in that respect.

The number of good coaches has also increased exponentially. It used to be that the coaching ranks were totally dominated by ex-players many of which did not keep up with the level of skill that transformed the Women's game these latter years. Players more often than not do not always make the best coaches. I don't believe that Geno or the other rising top male coaches ever played in either the WCBB or the WNBA. Not only has the level of skill of the Women changed, but the standard and level of coaches in WCBB. The newer coaches naturally copying the successful existing programs..

Holly was just an example of a coach that was a dinosaur and could never be a top-level coach in todays WCBB landscape. You can not just do what you learned to do when you were a player. The dynamics have and are still changing and a coach has to be creative and flexible enough to adjust. As much as Holly deserved the criticism she got, she was right about one thing. She said that even Pat would have a hard time dealing with the type of players coming out of high school today. She more than likely would have adjusted unlike Holly who couldn't.

The last few years, where a different team has won the championship will probably to the rule rather than the exception for WCBB in the future going forward. Just too many good programs drawing players away from the former fewer top programs.
Holly was a dinosaur...but, in many ways and with all respect, so was Pat. The UConn style (with all that it implies) was superior by the early 2000s - not withstanding the three straight wins UT had while Parker was there. For me, the defining game was the 2000 NC in Philly.
 
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