UCONN wins in spite of Geno

[boontonbomber]

Because people who actually watch UCONN games know Geno will leave players in while in foul trouble, one's he trusts, to see how they will react, if they can perform while under pressure. He's done it for years. He expects his "leaders" to be able to perform. Especially finding out whether they can or not in a non-conference early season game. They may need to do that (or not based on the results) in the tourney at some time.

probably watched as many, if not more games than most people here( I'm quite old). and I don't know that Geno leaves players in in that situation any more than most coaches. 2 fouls in the first half, especially in the first 5 minutes, and they're sitting. maybe last night he was looking to see how Gabby and Samuelson would handle it. seems a bit early in the season for that experiment. but, we'll never know.

 

[hoophuskee]

Big Geno fan for almost 2 decades. Best coach in WCBB by a mile but it can't be denied that he had a bad game last night. No need to reprise the questionable decisions he made during the game as set forth in this thread. But the bigger issue was that the team was simply not adequately prepared. 17 turnovers and a turnover margin of -8. Last year average turnover per game was 11 with a turnover margin was +8.9---that's a difference of almost 16.9 in the turnover margin. In addition 21 fouls. I understand that this is the first game of the year but this was a coaching failure. The good news is that it can be and will be addressed.

You know every now and then I see the type of comment in bold. I never understand it. How do you know that it wasn't just a combination of youth, an early 1st game of the year away from home, opposing good guard play, and good coaching from the other team that understand weaknesses of opposing young teams?

There is a reason why everyone of those kids isn't a pro player. In addition they only have one senior who really hasn't played a lot over her other 3 years. Not one of these players was "significant" in the offense over the past 3 years - so playing a good team - it has little to do with youth? C'mon.

I do agree the last couple of minutes he bungled. But the rest of it, unless you can define when a team that commits 17 turnovers "is adequately prepared" vs "when they aren't?"

 

[meyers7]

probably watched as many, if not more games than most people here( I'm quite old). and I don't know that Geno leaves players in in that situation any more than most coaches. 2 fouls in the first half, especially in the first 5 minutes, and they're sitting. maybe last night he was looking to see how Gabby and Samuelson would handle it. seems a bit early in the season for that experiment. but, we'll never know.

Well then maybe you need to pay better attention. Or maybe you're so old you've forgotten??

 

[Deadrody]

They weren't taking away time. All they were doing was adding up the foul count, fouling Chong out of the game, and eventually putting Nurse in a bad position. To my knowledge Geno hasn't stated whether or not he told Nurse to foul. Either way, it was a 3-pt game with plenty of time left. Just make FSU work and defend the perimeter. The Noles weren't exactly shooting lights out in the game and at worst you get the ball back with time remaining.

First of all, you have to separate the strategy to commit fouls from WHO commits them. It would have been wise to have someone else commit them, and for the two players to know they have 4 fouls and alert the coaches to that fact so they can adjust their strategy.

Committing fouls when you have them to give, absolutely took time off the clock. Again, you need to separate the strategy from teh execution. There were 21 seconds left when FSU got the ball. By the time the last foul to give was comitted, the clock read 13 seconds. Better execution could have taken off more time and not had those fouls committed by someone that would foul out.

FSU needed 3 points. They were actually more efficient at scoring from the 3 point line than from 2. It was a sound strategy, executed poorly.

Remember, it was game #1 of the season, and of their careers for a couple players.

 

[Deadrody]

omg the men's board is beyond cranky.

I dare say, uniquely cranky in at least 50 years or so.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

First of all, you have to separate the strategy to commit fouls from WHO commits them. It would have been wise to have someone else commit them, and for the two players to know they have 4 fouls and alert the coaches to that fact so they can adjust their strategy.

Almost everyone was in foul trouble so unless you are going to have Bent in the game and make her foul, not sure who was supposed to do so that would've been a good option.

Committing fouls when you have them to give, absolutely took time off the clock. Again, you need to separate the strategy from teh execution. There were 21 seconds left when FSU got the ball. By the time the last foul to give was comitted, the clock read 13 seconds.

UConn's first intentional foul came at 17.5 remaining, the second at 15.4, the third which was going to give FSU free throws even had the player not attempted a shot, came with 13.7 to go. They committed three fouls in less than 4 seconds. So little time came off and you're giving FSU a chance to get within one with more than 13 seconds left. And of course by the third one FSU knew UConn was trying to foul and put them on the line which makes it easier for them to heave the ball when a Husky runs at them. That's a danger of that strategy.

You are not going to convince me that it was proper strategy.

 

[CocoHusky]

Almost everyone was in foul trouble so unless you are going to have Bent in the game and make her foul, not sure who was supposed to do so that would've been a good option.

Napheesa Collier was the only UCONN player on the floor with less than 4 fouls. Crystal, Kyla, Natalie, or Molly could/should have been substituted in for any of the 4 players (KLS, Saniya, Gabby, & Kia) with 4 fouls. And I keep harping on this in WCBB there is nothing that says you have to foul around the ball. But Kyla in the game and say Kyla you have 1 job when the ball crosses half court I want you to foul the closest FSU player to you.

You are not going to convince me that it was proper strategy.

Only if you separate the strategy (to foul) from the execution (who fouls and when). The former was the right call IMO, the latter was poorly executed.

 

[bags27]

Well analyzed, Coco. It was especially amazing that Kyla never got playing time. The last time Geno had to worry about this sort of final minutes strategy was several years ago: even before the 14 Stanford game, because UConn lost that lead gradually (and then there was Kiah's poorly-advised shot). So, the coaching staff has its own homework to do for a season when this situation may arise again (and maybe again and again).

 

[phil sampieri]

Because people who actually watch UCONN games know Geno will leave players in while in foul trouble, one's he trusts, to see how they will react, if they can perform while under pressure. He's done it for years. He expects his "leaders" to be able to perform. Especially finding out whether they can or not in a non-conference early season game. They may need to do that (or not based on the results) in the tourney at some time.

Almost everyone was in foul trouble so unless you are going to have Bent in the game and make her foul, not sure who was supposed to do so that would've been a good option.



UConn's first intentional foul came at 17.5 remaining, the second at 15.4, the third which was going to give FSU free throws even had the player not attempted a shot, came with 13.7 to go. They committed three fouls in less than 4 seconds. So little time came off and you're giving FSU a chance to get within one with more than 13 seconds left. And of course by the third one FSU knew UConn was trying to foul and put them on the line which makes it easier for them to heave the ball when a Husky runs at them. That's a danger of that strategy.

You are not going to convince me that it was proper strategy.

Won't even try.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I agree with Deadrody that it was a sound strategy, executed poorly. The mistake was trying to blow through all the fowls to give in order to get them to the line. The way it should have been executed was with the objective of running maximum time off the clock over the multiple possessions that FSU would have, each time fowling only just as FSU was getting into any kind of credible shooting position, especially one outside the three point line. I need to watch the end of the game again to see if Geno had any kind of opportunity/time to convey this to his team or not, as I'm sure this is how he must have envisioned it unfolding when he made the decision to fowl.

Given how little time was on the clock, I have no problem at all with the specific players who fowled out doing so... why is it even an issue? The only priority is proper execution of the strategy. It is unfortunate that Kia was a step slow in committing her fowl, but since the third free throw missed, it ended up leaving us exactly where we would have been had the strategy been properly executed (i.e. one one point up), but with one exception: there was way too much time left on the clock for them to come back the other way on us! That's exactly what they did, removing the final outcome of the game from our hands.

 

[bags27]

I've watched Kia's foul a couple of times, and I'm not entirely convinced that she intended to foul, rather than swatting at the ball.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I've watched Kia's foul a couple of times, and I'm not entirely convinced that she intended to foul, rather than swatting at the ball.

Interesting thought. They showed the replay in slow motion on ESPN, and when I saw it at the time, it seemed to me that she did. But now I'm curious and will go back and give it further scrutiny.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

I agree with Deadrody that it was a sound strategy, executed poorly. The mistake was trying to blow through all the fowls to give in order to get them to the line.

.....

there was way too much time left on the clock for them to come back the other way on us! That's exactly what they did, removing the final outcome of the game from our hands.

So how is it sound strategy when admittedly leaving way too much time on the clock? Even Brown's attempted three that Nurse fouled on was forced. FSU was going to take a poor shot as often happens in the women's game in close and late situations. You don't employ that strategy, imo, unless there is very little time remaining and, preferably, when you only have to foul once so the opposition doesn't know it's coming.

 

[TitleTown]

Big Geno fan for almost 2 decades. Best coach in WCBB by a mile but it can't be denied that he had a bad game last night. No need to reprise the questionable decisions he made during the game as set forth in this thread. But the bigger issue was that the team was simply not adequately prepared. 17 turnovers and a turnover margin of -8. Last year average turnover per game was 11 with a turnover margin was +8.9---that's a difference of almost 16.9 in the turnover margin. In addition 21 fouls. I understand that this is the first game of the year but this was a coaching failure. The good news is that it can be and will be addressed.

Do you think maybe losing 3 All Americans has anything to do with that?

 

[BostonCanuck]

So how is it sound strategy when admittedly leaving way too much time on the clock? Even Brown's attempted three that Nurse fouled on was forced. FSU was going to take a poor shot as often happens in the women's game in close and late situations. You don't employ that strategy, imo, unless there is very little time remaining and, preferably, when you only have to foul once so the opposition doesn't know it's coming.

I think it's sound strategy because blowing through three fowls with only four seconds coming off the clock was a very low probability event... one which did occur mind you due to poor execution. I think that in the minds of our players who were on the floor, the objective probably was to get them to the line right away. I also think it's highly likely that Geno in no way wanted it to unfold in that manner. So probably there was some kind of communication breakdown between the coach and his players, and that's on Geno.

 

[phil sampieri]

I think it's sound strategy because blowing through three fowls with only four seconds coming off the clock was a very low probability event... one which did occur mind you due to poor execution. I think that in the minds of our players who were on the floor, the objective probably was to get them to the line right away. I also think it's highly likely that Geno in no way wanted it to unfold in that manner. So probably there was some kind of communication breakdown between the coach and his players, and that's on Geno.

So let's just let them pass it around and set a pic for a 3 before you get a chance to foul. Is that right ? Many close games have been decided with 4 seconds or less also.

 

[CocoHusky]

I need to watch the end of the game again to see if Geno had any kind of opportunity/time to convey this to his team or not, as I'm sure this is how he must have envisioned it unfolding when he made the decision to fowl.

At the :21 Sec mark of the game UCONN possession out of bounds FSU up by 1 point. FSU coming out of a time out with direction to foul. FSU fouled with no time coming off the clock sending Napheesa to the line for two shot. Geno had time while the free throws were being shot to provide instruction and make substitute. UCONN did not pressure the inbounds pass of FSU. Geno waited until FSU was crossing half-court to instruct Saniya to foul-Wrong person. Side out for FSU and Saniya is fouled out by rule Geno get 's 30 seconds to make the sub and he could/should have used every bit of that 30 seconds to instruct the rest of the players. Geno made a sub Dangerfield and instructed Kia to foul after play resumed. Kia fouled with minimal time coming off the clock her 4th foul. At this point there was much confusion about two specific things 1) How many fouls did UCONN have to give 2) How many fouls did Kia have. The right answers were Zero fouls to give, and Kia had 4 Fouls. You can see Geno motion to Shea & Marissa & CD holding up one finger. Geno instructed Kia to foul again probably thinking they had 1 more foul to give thus holding up 1 finger to the staff. Brown of FSU was close enough when Geno gave the instruction to foul. Brown smartly decided if they are going to foul I'm going to shoot- very smart on her part.

Given how little time was on the clock, I have no problem at all with the specific players who fowled out doing so... why is it even an issue? It is unfortunate that Kia was a step slow in committing her fowl, but since the third free throw missed, it ended up leaving us exactly where we would have been had the strategy been properly executed (i.e. one one point up), but with one exception: there was way too much time left on the clock for them to come back the other way on us!

This is an issue because you are in a one possession game and the player most responsible for getting you one possession ahead (Saniya) is now fouled out of the game. If the game goes into overtime you are now without your starting backcourt. I do not believe the strategy was to send FSU to the foul line. I think the strategy was to use the available fouls (2) to run some time off the clock because FSU had no timeouts. The mistake was thinking there were 3 available fouls and give brown credit for making a very heady play.

 

[BostonCanuck]

At the :21 Sec mark of the game UCONN possession out of bounds FSU up by 1 point. FSU coming out of a time out with direction to foul. FSU fouled with no time coming off the clock sending Napheesa to the line for two shot. Geno had time while the free throws were being shot to provide instruction and make substitute. UCONN did not pressure the inbounds pass of FSU. Geno waited until FSU was crossing half-court to instruct Saniya to foul-Wrong person. Side out for FSU and Saniya is fouled out by rule Geno get 's 30 seconds to make the sub and he could/should have used every bit of that 30 seconds to instruct the rest of the players. Geno made a sub Dangerfield and instructed Kia to foul after play resumed. Kia fouled with minimal time coming off the clock her 4th foul. At this point there was much confusion about two specific things 1) How many fouls did UCONN have to give 2) How many fouls did Kia have. The right answers were Zero fouls to give, and Kia had 4 Fouls. You can see Geno motion to Shea & Marissa & CD holding up one finger. Geno instructed Kia to foul again probably thinking they had 1 more foul to give thus holding up 1 finger to the staff. Brown of FSU was close enough when Geno gave the instruction to foul. Brown smartly decided if they are going to foul I'm going to shoot- very smart on her part.


This is an issue because you are in a one possession game and the player most responsible for getting you one possession ahead (Saniya) is now fouled out of the game. If the game goes into overtime you are now without your starting backcourt. I do not believe the strategy was to send FSU to the foul line. I think the strategy was to use the available fouls (2) to run some time off the clock because FSU had no timeouts. The mistake was thinking there were 3 available fouls and give brown credit for making a very heady play.

Excellent description of the final moments of the game (which I have not had a chance to re-watch yet). I fully agree that the strategy was to run down clock by using available fouls. Pretty sure Geno's intent with the one finger up was the number of fouls to give, but could the reason the other coaches didn't correct him be that they interpreted it as how many left for Kia?

 

[CocoHusky]

Excellent description of the final moments of the game (which I have not had a chance to re-watch yet). I fully agree that the strategy was to run down clock by using available fouls. Pretty sure Geno's intent with the one finger up was the number of fouls to give, but could the reason the other coaches didn't correct him be that they interpreted it as how many left for Kia?

Entirely possible. But once again the mistake was communicating while the action was happening. That communication should have happened in the 30 seconds that Geno and staff were allocated to sub after Saniya fouled. I have seen coaches stretch that 30 seconds into almost a full timeout. The entire staff and Geno especially seemed shocked and slightly paralyzed after Saniya fouled out. It makes no sense to me that UCONN would want to put FSU on the line to cut into the lead when FSU had no ability to stop the clock. Makes more sense that by fouling up to the limit UCONN could run the clock down and have FSU have to inbounds and run a play without benefit of instruction from the coach.

 

[meyers7]

UConn's first intentional foul came at 17.5 remaining, the second at 15.4, the third which was going to give FSU free throws even had the player not attempted a shot, came with 13.7 to go. They committed three fouls in less than 4 seconds. So little time came off and you're giving FSU a chance to get within one with more than 13 seconds left. And of course by the third one FSU knew UConn was trying to foul and put them on the line which makes it easier for them to heave the ball when a Husky runs at them. That's a danger of that strategy.

Again, that's execution.

You are not going to convince me that it was proper strategy.

Obviously, you're just wrong.

 

[meyers7]

So how is it sound strategy when admittedly leaving way too much time on the clock?

Strategy. Execution. What is so difficult about understanding this???? You are usually not this slow on the pick up????

 

[BostonCanuck]

Entirely possible. But once again the mistake was communicating while the action was happening. That communication should have happened in the 30 seconds that Geno and staff were allocated to sub after Saniya fouled. I have seen coaches stretch that 30 seconds into almost a full timeout. The entire staff and Geno especially seemed shocked and slightly paralyzed after Saniya fouled out. It makes no sense to me that UCONN would want to put FSU on the line to cut into the lead when FSU had no ability to stop the clock. Makes more sense that by fouling up to the limit UCONN could run the clock down and have FSU have to inbounds and run a play without benefit of instruction from the coach.

I believe you're right. I remember late last season that my biggest fear was a close game in the tournament, since the coaches were so out of practice in managing the final minutes of a very tight game. Pretty sure that aspect of Monday night's experience will not be lost on Geno and his coaching staff.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Strategy. Execution. What is so difficult about understanding this???? You are usually not this slow on the pick up????

It should never have been done in the first place with that much time left. By the third one FSU knew what UConn was doing which made the third foul dangerous as well. Not execution, coaching decision. If that's the right move then I guess 99.999999% of coaches make the wrong one since that strategy is rarely employed.

 

[Bestiarius]

At the :21 Sec mark of the game UCONN possession out of bounds FSU up by 1 point. FSU coming out of a time out with direction to foul. FSU fouled with no time coming off the clock sending Napheesa to the line for two shot. Geno had time while the free throws were being shot to provide instruction and make substitute. UCONN did not pressure the inbounds pass of FSU. Geno waited until FSU was crossing half-court to instruct Saniya to foul-Wrong person. Side out for FSU and Saniya is fouled out by rule Geno get 's 30 seconds to make the sub and he could/should have used every bit of that 30 seconds to instruct the rest of the players. Geno made a sub Dangerfield and instructed Kia to foul after play resumed. Kia fouled with minimal time coming off the clock her 4th foul. At this point there was much confusion about two specific things 1) How many fouls did UCONN have to give 2) How many fouls did Kia have. The right answers were Zero fouls to give, and Kia had 4 Fouls. You can see Geno motion to Shea & Marissa & CD holding up one finger. Geno instructed Kia to foul again probably thinking they had 1 more foul to give thus holding up 1 finger to the staff. Brown of FSU was close enough when Geno gave the instruction to foul. Brown smartly decided if they are going to foul I'm going to shoot- very smart on her part.


This is an issue because you are in a one possession game and the player most responsible for getting you one possession ahead (Saniya) is now fouled out of the game. If the game goes into overtime you are now without your starting backcourt. I do not believe the strategy was to send FSU to the foul line. I think the strategy was to use the available fouls (2) to run some time off the clock because FSU had no timeouts. The mistake was thinking there were 3 available fouls and give brown credit for making a very heady play.

Coco, if I ever committed a crime, I wouldn't want you investigating the evidence. Luckily, in this case, Geno 'lawyered up' with Collier and he beat the rap.