UConn recruiting classes - Is two enough?

[oldude]

To suggest that the upcoming visits of Haley Jones and Aliyah Boston to Storrs this coming weekend are important is, of course, an understatement. The decisions of these two young ladies have potential implications for future national championships or the lack thereof at UConn. It got me to thinking about what exactly constitutes a successful recruiting class.

While it can be a great sense of security for coaches and fans to bring in a large recruiting class of 4, 5 or even 6 players, for the most part, anything over three players can be a problem. Most of the kids recruited by top WBB programs were stars throughout HS and AAU. They are used to being on the court with the ball in their hands. Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to find meaningful PT for 4 or more players in a class, so kids transfer, or even worse, they stay and promote dissension on a team. UConn’s 2002 class of Bird, Cash, Jones and Williams was the exception. Last year’s freshmen class was unfortunately more typical of college basketball today.

IMO, the ideal class has three recruits: a guard, a forward/center and a wing. The greatest recruiting class in the history of WBB was Mo (guard), Tuck (forward) and Stewie, who could play anywhere including the wing. But the truth is, when looking at meaningful PT from a class of recruits, either as starters or key reserves, in recent years UConn has seldom received meaningful contributions from more than 2 players in any one recruiting class.

Of all the many records that UConn WBB owns, one of the most extraordinary is the current string of 11 straight FF’s. During that period of time, there have been only 2 classes that received meaningful contributions from 3 players. Below I have listed all the contributors from every class since 2008, when UConn first started their amazing string of FF appearances. I have also listed the initial number of recruits in each class in parentheses.

· 2008 (3) Swanier, Houston, Thomas (Note- Mel Thomas senior season ended after 16 games with a torn ACL)
· 2009 (4) Montgomery, Greene
· 2010 (4) Charles
· 2011 (2) Moore, Dixon
· 2012 (3) Hayes, Doty
· 2013 (1) Faris
· 2014 (3) Hartley, Dolson
· 2015 (3) KML, Stokes
· 2016 (3) Mo, Tuck, Stewie
· 2017 (1) Chong
· 2018 (4) Gabby, Kia
· 2019 (3) Lou, Pheesa
· 2020 (3) Crystal (so far)
· 2021 (4) Megan? (so far)
· 2022 (2) TBD
· 2023 (TBD) TBD

While UConn’s high-wire, 11th hour recruiting process give us all agita, the historical evidence is clear that so long as Geno and his staff continue to secure at least 2 solid players on average per recruiting class, the Huskies will continue to be among the top programs in WBB. So, by my way of thinking, any 2-player combination of Griffin (G), Jones (W) & Boston (F/C) will be just fine. If we get all 3, it will be an absolute Home Run.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

2 is good for the seesaw, 3 best for B'ball though. 8 vs 12, so what's to decide.

 

[CocoHusky]

Solid stuff @oldude. Very little to quibble with or disagree about but...
1) What you are actually showing is the year of graduation not the year of the incoming recruiting class.
2) I would list Brianna Banks in the 2015 graduating class as a solid contributor because she was part of 2 Championship teams.
3) You neglected to include impact transfers who also have to be recruited specifically Natalie Butler and Azura Stevens. The last 2 national Championships were decided largely by impact transfers (Gray, Davis of SC & Shepard of ND)
4) Lastly the UCONN standard is not to be "among the top programs", it is to be THE top program. Therefore, I would tend to disagree that 2 solid players in each class is enough to regain the throne.

 

[oldude]

Solid stuff @oldude. Very little to quibble with or disagree about but...
1) What you are actually showing is the year of graduation not the year of the incoming recruiting class.
2) I would list Brianna Banks in the 2015 graduating class as a solid contributor because she was part of 2 Championship teams.
3) You neglected to include impact transfers who also have to be recruited specifically Natalie Butler and Azura Stevens. The last 2 national Championships were decided largely by impact transfers (Gray, Davis of SC & Shepard of ND)
4) Lastly the UCONN standard is not to be "among the top programs", it is to be THE top program. Therefore, I would tend to disagree that 2 solid players in each class is enough to regain the throne.

I used the graduation year specifically because I felt that assessing a recruit's impact could only be done fairly if you looked at their performance over the 4-year span of their career at UConn. As an example, I might not have included Saniya on the list had she not stepped up significantly in her senior year.

By the same token, I did consider Brianna Banks, who actually started a number of games at UConn, but she fell out of the rotation toward the 2nd half of her junior year and transferred out to PSU for her senior year when the writing on the wall was pretty clear that her PT would be diminished as a senior. Certainly, a case could be made either way on Banks.

Transfers, both in and out, are certainly important factors in college basketball today, but for the sake of simplicity, I wanted to focus only on HS recruits. As for your last point, I certainly agree with your standard. Time will tell whether or not the current crop of players at UConn will be able to elevate the Huskies back to the promised land.

 

[CocoHusky]

I used the graduation year specifically because I felt that assessing a recruit's impact could only be done fairly if you looked at their performance over the 4-year span of their career at UConn. As an example, I might not have included Saniya on the list had she not stepped up significantly in her senior year.
By the same token, I did consider Brianna Banks, who actually started a number of games at UConn, but she fell out of the rotation toward the 2nd half of her junior year and transferred out to PSU for her senior year when the writing on the wall was pretty clear that her PT would be diminished as a senior. Certainly, a case could be made either way on Banks.
Transfers, both in and out, are certainly important factors in college basketball today, but for the sake of simplicity, I wanted to focus only on HS recruits. As for your last point, I certainly agree with your standard. Time will tell whether or not the current crop of players at UConn will be able to elevate the Huskies back to the promised land.

Agree fully. I did a similar but less comprehensive analysis a while back and just looking at 2019 incoming recruiting class. My conclusion was that UCONN needs to snag at least 1 starter and 2 rotation players in the 2019 to remain in championship contention. I defined rotation player as one that receives meaningful minutes in competitive games and the rotation to be at 7 players.
Under my scenario the starters would be:
F: Nelson-Ododa
F: Haley Jones
F: Walker
SG: C. Williams
PG: Dangerfield
G Sub: Griffin
F Sub: Boston

 

[oldude]

Agree fully. I did a similar but less comprehensive analysis a while back and just looking at 2019 incoming recruiting class. My conclusion was that UCONN needs to snag at least 1 starter and 2 rotation players in the 2019 to remain in championship contention. I defined rotation player as one that receives meaningful minutes in competitive games and the rotation to be at 7 players.
Under my scenario the starters would be:
F: Nelson-Ododa
F: Haley Jones
F: Walker
SG: C. Williams
PG: Dangerfield
G Sub: Griffin
F Sub: Boston

If that's UConn's rotation next year I would be ecstatic, with one addition. If not this year, it is my sincere hope that Coombs becomes a factor by next year. She is an outstanding athlete with the ability to be a shutdown defender as well as a distributor on offense. I suspect that her DVT may have held her back all last season. Now that her health is stable, I'm hoping for big things from Mikayla.

 

[victor64]

Agree fully. I did a similar but less comprehensive analysis a while back and just looking at 2019 incoming recruiting class. My conclusion was that UCONN needs to snag at least 1 starter and 2 rotation players in the 2019 to remain in championship contention. I defined rotation player as one that receives meaningful minutes in competitive games and the rotation to be at 7 players.
Under my scenario the starters would be:
F: Nelson-Ododa
F: Haley Jones
F: Walker
SG: C. Williams
PG: Dangerfield
G Sub: Griffin
F Sub: Boston

A couple of thoughts about this scenario.

1. I think Boston starts the minute she walks on the UCONN campus. She does everything Geno seems to want in a post. (providing, of course that she provides the necessary consistent practice effort)

2. This sets aside the two other juniors and two sophomores that are presently on the roster. I am hoping (expecting) one of those four to emerge into the top seven.

3. I would put Boston instead of Jones because Jones could be first off the bench and sub for any of the five without a lot of readjustment.

4. I like your optimism about getting Jones and Boston. I think there is still a lot of work to be done to obtain either player's services.

 

[CocoHusky]

A couple of thoughts about this scenario.

1. I think Boston starts the minute she walks on the UCONN campus. She does everything Geno seems to want in a post. (providing, of course that she provides the necessary consistent practice effort)
2. This sets aside the two other juniors and two sophomores that are presently on the roster. I am hoping (expecting) one of those four to emerge into the top seven.
3. I would put Boston instead of Jones because Jones could be first off the bench and sub for any of the five without a lot of readjustment.
4. I like your optimism about getting Jones and Boston. I think there is still a lot of work to be done to obtain either player's services .

I think people are sleeping on Haley Jones and how UCONN ready she will be on day one. It is all about the preparation. Mitty is perfect training ground for a UCONN player because the program features: a national schedule , weight training, USA basketball level coaching from Sue Phillips, complex offensive and defensive sets, DI level competition at every practice from teammates, a position less BB philosophy, male practice players. Of those things Aliyah is only getting 1 (weight training) on a regular basis-maybe-I hope.

 

[southofnorth]

My only question is do you mean 2 solid players and that’s it? Or are we talking something more like the class of KLS/Pheesa which brought in 4 players, but only 2 that actually received significant playing time? I think it was stated before, but an 8 player team leaves 0 margin for injuries, rest, and/or foul trouble during a game.

 

[Golden Husky]

To suggest that the upcoming visits of Haley Jones and Aliyah Boston to Storrs this coming weekend are important is, of course, an understatement. The decisions of these two young ladies have potential implications for future national championships or the lack thereof at UConn. It got me to thinking about what exactly constitutes a successful recruiting class.

While it can be a great sense of security for coaches and fans to bring in a large recruiting class of 4, 5 or even 6 players, for the most part, anything over three players can be a problem. Most of the kids recruited by top WBB programs were stars throughout HS and AAU. They are used to being on the court with the ball in their hands. Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to find meaningful PT for 4 or more players in a class, so kids transfer, or even worse, they stay and promote dissension on a team. UConn’s 2002 class of Bird, Cash, Jones and Williams was the exception. Last year’s freshmen class was unfortunately more typical of college basketball today.

IMO, the ideal class has three recruits: a guard, a forward/center and a wing. The greatest recruiting class in the history of WBB was Mo (guard), Tuck (forward) and Stewie, who could play anywhere including the wing. But the truth is, when looking at meaningful PT from a class of recruits, either as starters or key reserves, in recent years UConn has seldom received meaningful contributions from more than 2 players in any one recruiting class.

Of all the many records that UConn WBB owns, one of the most extraordinary is the current string of 11 straight FF’s. During that period of time, there have been only 2 classes that received meaningful contributions from 3 players. Below I have listed all the contributors from every class since 2008, when UConn first started their amazing string of FF appearances. I have also listed the initial number of recruits in each class in parentheses.

· 2008 (3) Swanier, Houston, Thomas (Note- Mel Thomas senior season ended after 16 games with a torn ACL)
· 2009 (4) Montgomery, Greene
· 2010 (4) Charles
· 2011 (2) Moore, Dixon
· 2012 (3) Hayes, Doty
· 2013 (1) Faris
· 2014 (3) Hartley, Dolson
· 2015 (3) KML, Stokes
· 2016 (3) Mo, Tuck, Stewie
· 2017 (1) Chong
· 2018 (4) Gabby, Kia
· 2019 (3) Lou, Pheesa
· 2020 (3) Crystal (so far)
· 2021 (4) Megan? (so far)
· 2022 (2) TBD
· 2023 (TBD) TBD

While UConn’s high-wire, 11th hour recruiting process give us all agita, the historical evidence is clear that so long as Geno and his staff continue to secure at least 2 solid players on average per recruiting class, the Huskies will continue to be among the top programs in WBB. So, by my way of thinking, any 2-player combination of Griffin (G), Jones (W) & Boston (F/C) will be just fine. If we get all 3, it will be an absolute Home Run.

Darn, you had me until the last two words, 'dude. I know there's no Boneyard deduction for mixed metaphors but shouldn't that be "slam dunk?"

 

[oldude]

My only question is do you mean 2 solid players and that’s it? Or are we talking something more like the class of KLS/Pheesa which brought in 4 players, but only 2 that actually received significant playing time? I think it was stated before, but an 8 player team leaves 0 margin for injuries, rest, and/or foul trouble during a game.

No doubt that it's nice to have some additional players for practice and in case of injuries, but as Geno has shown time and time again, he'll run with a 5 to 6 player rotation if he has to. Thinking back to Stewie scouring the dorms for players when Polly & Tierney were added to the roster as walk-ons. UConn was pretty lean back then, but they still managed to win championships.

 

[oldude]

Darn, you had me until the last two words, 'dude. I know there's no Boneyard deduction for mixed metaphors but shouldn't that be "slam dunk?"

 

[victor64]

I think people are sleeping on Haley Jones and how UCONN ready she will be on day one. It is all about the preparation. Mitty is perfect training ground for a UCONN player because the program features: a national schedule , weight training, USA basketball level coaching from Sue Phillips, complex offensive and defensive sets, DI level competition at every practice from teammates, a position less BB philosophy, male practice players. Of those things Aliyah is only getting 1 (weight training) on a regular basis-maybe-I hope.

There is no questioning Jones' talent and preparation. Boston's team may not have the level of training that Jones' team but Boston herself does. Boston was terrific in both the u17 and the 3 x 3. I just don't think Jones is quite good enough to pass Dangerfield, Williams, ONO or Walker right away. Boston will be a decent replacement for Phee initially and an All-American by the time she is done. All she needs is the day to day coaching of Hall of Famer Chris Dailey.

Jones, no doubt, will play a ton as a freshman wherever she ends up. Her biggest asset is the ability to play at a high level at multiple positions.

 

[donalddoowop]

Agree fully. I did a similar but less comprehensive analysis a while back and just looking at 2019 incoming recruiting class. My conclusion was that UCONN needs to snag at least 1 starter and 2 rotation players in the 2019 to remain in championship contention. I defined rotation player as one that receives meaningful minutes in competitive games and the rotation to be at 7 players.
Under my scenario the starters would be:
F: Nelson-Ododa
F: Haley Jones
F: Walker
SG: C. Williams
PG: Dangerfield
G Sub: Griffin
F Sub: Boston

Why do you include players who have not committed and may not commit to UConn?

 

[CTBballfan243]

I thought it was "8 is enough".

 

[HopJim]

To suggest that the upcoming visits of Haley Jones and Aliyah Boston to Storrs this coming weekend are important is, of course, an understatement. The decisions of these two young ladies have potential implications for future national championships or the lack thereof at UConn. It got me to thinking about what exactly constitutes a successful recruiting class.

While it can be a great sense of security for coaches and fans to bring in a large recruiting class of 4, 5 or even 6 players, for the most part, anything over three players can be a problem. Most of the kids recruited by top WBB programs were stars throughout HS and AAU. They are used to being on the court with the ball in their hands. Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to find meaningful PT for 4 or more players in a class, so kids transfer, or even worse, they stay and promote dissension on a team. UConn’s 2002 class of Bird, Cash, Jones and Williams was the exception. Last year’s freshmen class was unfortunately more typical of college basketball today.

IMO, the ideal class has three recruits: a guard, a forward/center and a wing. The greatest recruiting class in the history of WBB was Mo (guard), Tuck (forward) and Stewie, who could play anywhere including the wing. But the truth is, when looking at meaningful PT from a class of recruits, either as starters or key reserves, in recent years UConn has seldom received meaningful contributions from more than 2 players in any one recruiting class.

Of all the many records that UConn WBB owns, one of the most extraordinary is the current string of 11 straight FF’s. During that period of time, there have been only 2 classes that received meaningful contributions from 3 players. Below I have listed all the contributors from every class since 2008, when UConn first started their amazing string of FF appearances. I have also listed the initial number of recruits in each class in parentheses.

· 2008 (3) Swanier, Houston, Thomas (Note- Mel Thomas senior season ended after 16 games with a torn ACL)
· 2009 (4) Montgomery, Greene
· 2010 (4) Charles
· 2011 (2) Moore, Dixon
· 2012 (3) Hayes, Doty
· 2013 (1) Faris
· 2014 (3) Hartley, Dolson
· 2015 (3) KML, Stokes
· 2016 (3) Mo, Tuck, Stewie
· 2017 (1) Chong
· 2018 (4) Gabby, Kia
· 2019 (3) Lou, Pheesa
· 2020 (3) Crystal (so far)
· 2021 (4) Megan? (so far)
· 2022 (2) TBD
· 2023 (TBD) TBD

While UConn’s high-wire, 11th hour recruiting process give us all agita, the historical evidence is clear that so long as Geno and his staff continue to secure at least 2 solid players average per recruiting class, the Huskies will continue to be among the top programs in WBB. So, by my way of thinking, any 2-player combination of Griffin (G), Jones (W) & Boston (F/C) will be just fine. If we get all 3, it will be an absolute Home Run.

Agree with points but would redefine by saying UConn needs 2 solid players in back to back classes. To my knowledge, we have never had two consecutive classes where there was only one top recruit. With 3 and 2 in consecutive years, we typically win it all.

 

[LasVegasYank]

For any other team, two top ten recruits each year would yield a team four years down the road with eight top ten players.....and every year thereafter.

UConn already has six top ten so maintaining this won't be a problem, at least in the short run, even if just Jones or Boston commits for 2020.

 

[oldude]

Why do you include players who have not committed and may not commit to UConn?

Cocoa is a true believer.

 

[Charliebball]

A couple of thoughts about this scenario.

4. I like your optimism about getting Jones and Boston. I think there is still a lot of work to be done to obtain either player's services.

what kind of work do you have in mind?

 

[oldude]

what kind of work do you have in mind?

Somebody has to file their signed UConn NLI's with the NCAA....

 

[Charliebball]

Somebody has to file their signed UConn NLI's with the NCAA....

I wish UConn had to hire extra help for that kind of work........

 

[veryolddog]

I am sitting here taking a break and wondering about all of this. I am hopeful that Geno is able to recruit the kind of players he wants and that they are teachable, hard working young people who want to learn and want to win. After that, I personally have no control over this. I am more worried about the mare in my barn who is about to foal and the coyotes who want to steal just born calfs.

I do understand that there is a lot of competition out there by all of the Universities who value women's sports and a young 17 and 18 year old will make decisions based upon what is important at a particular time and place. Some have more confidence than others and that becomes important in decision making and sometimes fear of the intensity that has to be mastered is also a deciding factor.

As an old graduate of UConn, I still enjoy men's basketball, and women's basketball under Geno. Football is not any better than when I graduated in 1964.

Well, I have to go back in the barn to see where we are, and see how Gracie and the Vet are doing. Have a nice day and worry about what is important.

 

[UcMiami]

Oldude, very nice OP, but I think in some ways this under-emphasizes the importance of the less prominent players on the roster. Even the walk-ons who barely play add significantly to the chemistry and the lesser players can have a huge impact on individual games. With nicks and bruises not to mention significant injuries, a roster of 8 players is too few and even 10 is questionable as the wear to the starters adds up over the season if the reserve pool is too shallow.

The uncertaintaties inherent in recruiting mean that aiming for recruiting classes of 3 players each year and being surprised by 4, 2, or 1 player classes occasionally is I think what most coaches strive for. Five player classes happen occasionally (that 2002 class was originally TASSK with one player dropping out due to chronic injury) but especially in the transfer era in which we now live a five player recruiting class and even four player classes rarely graduate together.

 

[CocoHusky]

Why do you include players who have not committed and may not commit to UConn?

Because I'm an optimist.

 

[BroadwayVa]

To suggest that the upcoming visits of Haley Jones and Aliyah Boston to Storrs this coming weekend are important is, of course, an understatement. The decisions of these two young ladies have potential implications for future national championships or the lack thereof at UConn. It got me to thinking about what exactly constitutes a successful recruiting class.

While it can be a great sense of security for coaches and fans to bring in a large recruiting class of 4, 5 or even 6 players, for the most part, anything over three players can be a problem. Most of the kids recruited by top WBB programs were stars throughout HS and AAU. They are used to being on the court with the ball in their hands. Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to find meaningful PT for 4 or more players in a class, so kids transfer, or even worse, they stay and promote dissension on a team. UConn’s 2002 class of Bird, Cash, Jones and Williams was the exception. Last year’s freshmen class was unfortunately more typical of college basketball today.

IMO, the ideal class has three recruits: a guard, a forward/center and a wing. The greatest recruiting class in the history of WBB was Mo (guard), Tuck (forward) and Stewie, who could play anywhere including the wing. But the truth is, when looking at meaningful PT from a class of recruits, either as starters or key reserves, in recent years UConn has seldom received meaningful contributions from more than 2 players in any one recruiting class.

Of all the many records that UConn WBB owns, one of the most extraordinary is the current string of 11 straight FF’s. During that period of time, there have been only 2 classes that received meaningful contributions from 3 players. Below I have listed all the contributors from every class since 2008, when UConn first started their amazing string of FF appearances. I have also listed the initial number of recruits in each class in parentheses.

· 2008 (3) Swanier, Houston, Thomas (Note- Mel Thomas senior season ended after 16 games with a torn ACL)
· 2009 (4) Montgomery, Greene
· 2010 (4) Charles
· 2011 (2) Moore, Dixon
· 2012 (3) Hayes, Doty
· 2013 (1) Faris
· 2014 (3) Hartley, Dolson
· 2015 (3) KML, Stokes
· 2016 (3) Mo, Tuck, Stewie
· 2017 (1) Chong
· 2018 (4) Gabby, Kia
· 2019 (3) Lou, Pheesa
· 2020 (3) Crystal (so far)
· 2021 (4) Megan? (so far)
· 2022 (2) TBD
· 2023 (TBD) TBD

While UConn’s high-wire, 11th hour recruiting process give us all agita, the historical evidence is clear that so long as Geno and his staff continue to secure at least 2 solid players on average per recruiting class, the Huskies will continue to be among the top programs in WBB. So, by my way of thinking, any 2-player combination of Griffin (G), Jones (W) & Boston (F/C) will be just fine. If we get all 3, it will be an absolute Home Run.

Wonderful, simply wonderful. 2 maybe good, 3 may be optimal, but I want 6 it feeds my comfy zone.
The Sue Bird et al group taught Geno/Christine lessons they never have forgotten. They had to keep a running tab of who had how many minutes and who was in and who was next. Just to keep a near dozen super stars, or close to that, happy meaning less disgruntled.
Seriously, just me wanting, I would take the exceptional Stewie, Tuck, Moriah, Gabby, Napheesa and let another coach worry about transfers.
Transfers are 1000 times more likely today than during the golden Sue Bird days.