UConn Not Unanimous #1

[Bigpetunia]

I disagree with your post in general and your mischaracterizations and misrepresentations in specific. I've spent some of my career in the field of organizational development and I retain an interest in organizational excellence.

Excellence is difficult to achieve. What Geno has done is mindbogglingly far beyond mere excellence and those polls are one reflection of that. Of course regional prejudices put teams in holes not of their own digging. My point writ large. To achieve unanimity, teams not only have to be the best, they have to be so easily identifiably as the best they overcome those prejudices.

Nowhere did I suggest anyone (let alone all of us) seek treatment for a disjointed nose because some "halfwit" (at least we agree on something ) has been throwing punches. Again, my point isn't to bemoan the ballot of one attention seeker hellbent on displaying his lack of credentials to hold his position. (See what I mean about organizational excellence? That guy just provided Exhibit A as to how easy it is to discredit.)

Naturally results on the court can never (rationally) be trumped by opinion. But championships can't be held every week, polls can. More data points mean better differentiation. And sometimes actual results may never be available. The entire field of insurance, warrants, etc. is based on informed opinion. You never know how long a particular tire will last until it fails. The whole point of a poll is to crystallize informed opinion.

I never suggested the nonsense of some halfwit's single vote could or would affect UConn's recruiting. AT ALL. The process of selecting where one will attend college starts WAY before that. It starts with people telling a kid she's really good. It starts with parents and youth coaches suggesting ways a child can use her talent to better her lot in life. It starts with her beginning to dream.

It continues with her forming opinions of her own. How does she form and opinion? Information and advice. Where does she get information? From results and conversations about the sport. Who do those conversations focus on? Why the best, that's who. Where can a list of the best be found? The polls. Think kids don't read polls? Think the South Carolina players and fans didn't rejoice last November when Stanford toppled UConn? I guaraneffingtee you they did. That next poll validated them. Think the kids SC was recruiting didn't see that poll and file it as one more data point in their recruitment? Was it the tipping point? Of course not. But which side of the balance do you think that gets added to: In the Gamecock's favor or against them? Maybe you think they wouldn't consider it at all. I don't.

Communication is absolutely essential to building organization excellence. Clear, unambiguous messages repeated over and over. UConn huddles before every foul shot to remove any confusion about what's next. Both Stewart and Jefferson have acknowledged they needed to improve their on-court communications in order to maximize their effectiveness.

I think it was Bria Hartley who said they don't practice something until the get it right. They practice until they can't get it wrong. I have no doubt Geno uses that technique in his communication. Geno is obviously a master communicator and that plays an enormous role in his success. Communicate, communicate, communicate until all confusion and doubt are removed.

Recruiters need to employ every advantage they enjoy. Every kid with aspirations to play college ball, at some point, hears about UConn. In part, that knowledge gets UConn's coaches' calls returned. In part, that knowledge puts UConn on every elite player's list of colleges to seriously consider. What they hear is the Huskies are the best. That conclusion, to a degree, is advanced by the polls. In many cases, the polls may be the first exposure kids get to who's best. Ignore that if you choose. I won't. Here's a point I'd like to see raised. One notion of which team is the best at any given moment (save after the last game, which only occurs once a year) is when all the experts agree on who that team is. Since 02-03 UConn has achieved that agreement more times than any other program. In fact, they are so far ahead they've lapped the rest of the field combined three times over.

Oh my.....

Dear Mr. Organizational Excellence:

At first, I was reluctant to respond to this lengthy screed because I assumed that it must have been written in jest, in which case it would have been an excellent, if rather long-winded post...It did give me a chuckle, but I'd far prefer to laugh with you rather than at you.

To be clear, 'twas you who decided to raise the subject of your ire that some clearly wrong-headed voter denied UConn first place unanimity in some silly poll and that a one-fingered salute in response might be appropriate. 'Twas you who posited the remarkable and head-scratching contention that such actions might adversely affect prospect recruitment. I neither misquoted, misrepresented, nor mischaracterized what you wrote, but simply pointed out, in my own opinion, the fundamental silliness of that contention. It is my belief that most top high school recruits are pretty smart kids with pretty smart advisers whose judgements are highly unlikely to be swayed by such breathtaking nonsense.

But, and here is the key point, if you wish to adhere to such beliefs, and if you wish to share these thoughts on our forum, PLEASE be my guest. Go for it. But if you get your knickers in such a knot every time your comments engender disagreement (and I do, most ardently, disagree), given that argument and counter-argument constitute the fundamental nature of any discussion board such as this, maybe you should consider refraining from posting altogether. And please (just friendly advice here) consider seeing someone about having that cork extracted!

 

[HGN]

I've posted several times why I think the polls are important, although most will say they care little or nothing about them and the only poll that matters is in April. For one thing, I believe polls affect recruiting. When a team is in the polls, they're in the "conversation" and when they're in the conversation, recruits take notice.

I've been tracking certain aspects of the polls since 2003 -- well, one aspect of the polls, anyway, first place votes. A first place vote means that someone with enough respect to have been chosen by the poll's administrators to cast a ballot sees that team as the best.

A special aspect of first place ballots is that it signifies that ALL voters agree. Unanimous agreement is far from simple to achieve. 30+ opinionated individuals must all think the same team is the best. Achieving unanimous agreement in both polls is harder still.

Want an example of how difficult it is to achieve unanimity? I offer boy genius Seth Soffian. Seth writes for something called the News-Press and has been given a vote in the AP poll. Anyway, Seth doesn't deserve his #1 vote. As Seth put his rationale for choosing a team other than UConn this week, "Everyone knows UConn is still going to be the team to beat. But the Huskies haven't played a game yet, and South Carolina beating an Ohio State team that's good enough to be a Final Four contender is impressive enough to warrant a No. 1 vote, at least for now."

So UConn won't be the unanimous #1 in the AP this week. Anybody want to offer that mindless pot-stirrer Seth a one-finger salute?

Know what's even more difficult than being the unanimous in both polls for a given week? Being the unanimous #1 in both polls for an entire season. Any guesses as to which team achieved that? Unfortunately, as dominant as UConn may prove to be this season, they won't be unanimous all season. Thanks, Seth.

Don't worry at all..............They will be.

 

[Tonyc]

Well if UConn loses a game this season and they wont barring injuries they are still number 1. No other team in WCBB can beat them, UConn can only beat themselves and that is pretty hard to do .

When looking at opponents dont compare them to UConn. Its UConn and everybody else and it aint even close. Ohio St may be a top 5 team before the season is over because of how close they played SC on the road not because UConn blew them out. UConn is going to blow every team out. This is a very very special team of players with experience. Our freshman looked lost at times and that is to be expected but it is amplified even more seeing them out there playing with our machine.

What opponents can learn from UConn is its not about talent its about T.E.A.M. Together Everyone Achieves More. This is the reason why no other team can catch UConn, because its taken Geno over 20 years to get his players to this point and Geno is willing to give up on a player who doesnt meet his standards then to relinquish the chemistry discipline and cohesiveness that he's built. One bad attitude, one player who doesnt want to play by his rules can ruin everything he's built. For Example. Stewie was in foul trouble against Ohio St. Butler on the bench and now a lack of post players with height. UConn continued to roll. They did this with defense. Team Defense. Geno has been able to build teams with every player every coach everybody involved with the team on the same page. Everybody knows their job and what is expected.

My ole saying which I repeat season after season. When you get involved with UConn Womens Basketball....You will pay a huge price, you will pay it in advance, and their are no guarentees. That goes for everything you do in you life. If you want it really bad those 3 qualities you must live by.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Oh my.....

Dear Mr. Organizational Excellence:

At first, I was reluctant to respond to this lengthy screed because I assumed that it must have been written in jest, in which case it would have been an excellent, if rather long-winded post...It did give me a chuckle, but I'd far prefer to laugh with you rather than at you.

To be clear, 'twas you who decided to raise the subject of your ire that some clearly wrong-headed voter denied UConn first place unanimity in some silly poll and that a one-fingered salute in response might be appropriate. 'Twas you who posited the remarkable and head-scratching contention that such actions might adversely affect prospect recruitment. I neither misquoted, misrepresented, nor mischaracterized what you wrote, but simply pointed out, in my own opinion, the fundamental silliness of that contention. It is my belief that most top high school recruits are pretty smart kids with pretty smart advisers whose judgements are highly unlikely to be swayed by such breathtaking nonsense.

But, and here is the key point, if you wish to adhere to such beliefs, and if you wish to share these thoughts on our forum, PLEASE be my guest. Go for it. But if you get your knickers in such a knot every time your comments engender disagreement (and I do, most ardently, disagree), given that argument and counter-argument constitute the fundamental nature of any discussion board such as this, maybe you should consider refraining from posting altogether. And please (just friendly advice here) consider seeing someone about having that cork extracted!

That you continue to miss the fundamental nature of my original post is my fault. My posts lacks sufficient clarity. Positing strawmen and making disparagements, you own. I doubt we disagree on much more than the relevance of polls. And even there, I acknowledge the polls' relevance is somewhat trivial. It likely appears that I'm beating the crap out of this dead horse because so many agree with you and not me.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

... its taken Geno over 20 years to get his players to this point ...

Don't forget, Tony, it's taken Geno 20 years to get to this point himself.

 

[watanabe]

Oh my.....

Dear Mr. Organizational Excellence:

At first, I was reluctant to respond to this lengthy screed because I assumed that it must have been written in jest, in which case it would have been an excellent, if rather long-winded post...It did give me a chuckle, but I'd far prefer to laugh with you rather than at you.

To be clear, 'twas you who decided to raise the subject of your ire that some clearly wrong-headed voter denied UConn first place unanimity in some silly poll and that a one-fingered salute in response might be appropriate. 'Twas you who posited the remarkable and head-scratching contention that such actions might adversely affect prospect recruitment. I neither misquoted, misrepresented, nor mischaracterized what you wrote, but simply pointed out, in my own opinion, the fundamental silliness of that contention. It is my belief that most top high school recruits are pretty smart kids with pretty smart advisers whose judgements are highly unlikely to be swayed by such breathtaking nonsense.

But, and here is the key point, if you wish to adhere to such beliefs, and if you wish to share these thoughts on our forum, PLEASE be my guest. Go for it. But if you get your knickers in such a knot every time your comments engender disagreement (and I do, most ardently, disagree), given that argument and counter-argument constitute the fundamental nature of any discussion board such as this, maybe you should consider refraining from posting altogether. And please (just friendly advice here) consider seeing someone about having that cork extracted!

This is like english 105 in the Montieth building. Now I know why I flunked it the first time. Never did get the verbious thing down.

 

[Huskies Rule]

I would actually propose that the furor against UConn has quieted a bit in recent years as the inevitably of another UConn NC has become just an accepted state of affairs and the competition with UTenn has been left in the rear view mirror with the Huskies now in double digits and the Vols a non-factor. When there's no argument, there's less to bite on.

I don't know how one is able to quantify the level of "furor" out there, and certainly Pat Summitt's tragic misfortune did somewhat defuse much of the heated rhetoric, but a few fan forums just can't resist making UConn's success an element of myriad (did I use it correctly, Kib?) threads and comments. Obviously, the fan forums and the articles I read online limit the extent of my perspective nationally.

It's very interesting, though, how the two fan forums I read most often, Vol Nation and McGraws Bench, approach the issue of UConn's program in an almost diametrically opposite manner. On Vol Nation, there are comments too numerous and too often to count about stealing Maya and mean ad hominem screeds about Geno. Posters there do praise UConn's program and the players, but they are not above taking lots of lowbrow personal jabs (at Kaleena and Stewie.) I don't know if I'd call it a "furor," but the angry palaver there is palpable. I suspect a recent lack of FF success has fueled this, and there is no doubt reading Vol Nation that the 'furor' is alive and well in Rocky Top. (Oddly, they dislike and disrespect Holly almost as much as they do Geno.)

Notre Dame's fan site takes an entirely different approach. There is no furor against UConn here. Only a healthy sense of competition. Instead of negativity and anger, theirs is a constructive, positive forum that wastes little time attacking UConn but actually, occasionally compliments the program, players and coach. They spend their words praising their players, discussing strategies, speculating on their freshman as we do, etc. Despite the fact that we are arch-enemies, rivals, and there is no love lost between us, they genuinely show respect. As we do towards them. It's clearly a classy forum that takes the high road.

Agreed, no 'furor' emanating from South Bend. Knoxville is another story.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I don't know how one is able to quantify the level of "furor" out there, and certainly Pat Summitt's tragic misfortune did somewhat defuse much of the heated rhetoric, but a few fan forums just can't resist making UConn's success an element of myriad (did I use it correctly, Kib?) threads and comments. Obviously, the fan forums and the articles I read online limit the extent of my perspective nationally.

It's very interesting, though, how the two fan forums I read most often, Vol Nation and McGraws Bench, approach the issue of UConn's program in an almost diametrically opposite manner. On Vol Nation, there are comments too numerous and too often to count about stealing Maya and mean ad hominem screeds about Geno. Posters there do praise UConn's program and the players, but they are not above taking lots of lowbrow personal jabs (at Kaleena and Stewie.) I don't know if I'd call it a "furor," but the angry palaver there is palpable. I suspect a recent lack of FF success has fueled this, and there is no doubt reading Vol Nation that the 'furor' is alive and well in Rocky Top. (Oddly, they dislike and disrespect Holly almost as much as they do Geno.)

Notre Dame's fan site takes an entirely different approach. There is no furor against UConn here. Only a healthy sense of competition. Instead of negativity and anger, theirs is a constructive, positive forum that wastes little time attacking UConn but actually, occasionally compliments the program, players and coach. They spend their words praising their players, discussing strategies, speculating on their freshman as we do, etc. Despite the fact that we are arch-enemies, rivals, and there is no love lost between us, they genuinely show respect. As we do towards them. It's clearly a classy forum that takes the high road.

Agreed, no 'furor' emanating from South Bend. Knoxville is another story.

Ah, but the views of UConn that both of the two mentioned sites might exhibit is very different from the source of the UConn Is Bad for Women's Basketball endlessly regurgitated articles that come from: a) pub stool sports writers who half-soberly half-see a highlight of a woman's game on the screen and decide the next morning to write a column that says "I'm the biggest fan of women's sports since my I rooted for my daughters when they were in Little League softball but the UConn women are doing bad because . . . ," b) once legendary but now forgotten coaches or players that an ESPN or SI can pay to write a diatribe about how UConn's excellence and dominance is completely different from that of college and professional male teams, c) some no-name Podunkahassee writer down south who wants to show "his little ladies" there that he is going to stand up for them against the UConn bullies and their nasty coach.

The Summitt and the VolNation are what they are, and they reflect the character of the UTenn fans, some parts of which I can actually admire a bit but a huge chunk of which no decent and rational human would want to have inside them. I would agree that the chats on Muffet's Bench are maybe a bit more informed and less vitriolic, but you will certainly see some very insulting stuff there even now and especially around the time of the UConn vs. ND game, and there are also those discussions pieces led by their leading luminaries on subjects such as "Why I think Pat's 8-5 record in the NC is better than Geno's 10-0." But again, it's a free world and there are cheap opinions.

 

[DobbsRover2]

And if you happen to peruse that other site out in Indiana, you might possibly see a discussion of how Brianna Turner totally outplayed Stewie in the second half of last year's NC game. Yes, the same Stewie who almost tore her ankle off at the end of the first half so that she had no push-off, didn't shoot the last 20 minutes, and just stayed in to collect rebounds and play some gutty defense. So whatever you want to say about the Irish's MB bunch, they aren't necessarily the brightest bulbs in the world. But they try.

 

[Bayareahusky]

And if you happen to peruse that other site out in Indiana, you might possibly see a discussion of how Brianna Turner totally outplayed Stewie in the second half of last year's NC game. Yes, the same Stewie who almost tore her ankle off at the end of the first half so that she had no push-off, didn't shoot the last 20 minutes, and just stayed in to collect rebounds and play some gutty defense. So whatever you want to say about the Irish's MB bunch, they aren't necessarily the brightest bulbs in the world. But they try.

Yes DR2, I read both these sites.... as do a lot of others here..... of course, what ND has others do not have is a top flight coach.... so vital in WCBB..... to have a competent person at the helm who can orchestrate, strategize, and maneiver the troops as need be.... Meffet is very adept at this......

I expect fans on their own website to be partisan and it is all in bounds, so long as they stick to fact, which we all know some sites do not do.... I am fine with the ND faithful stating opinion, so song as it stays that way.... to opinion...... I am even OK with TN sites busting on GA being an idiot, if that is their opinion.... of course, too frequently it ends up being an accusation fest with no factual backup to support their incredible claims....

 

[Bayareahusky]

I agree to an extent. It's easy, when you're UConn, sitting atop the polls virtually all the time, "owning" the polls, to dismiss them, to forget about them, to refer to them a irrelevant. When you've been king of the mountain long enough your focus drifts to the horizon, not those coming to push you off. No good general disregards what's important to his opponent. If the opponent thinks the polls are important, we should too.

In the larger scheme of things, polls are a nit, a detail. But it's precisely the attention to detail where excellence is forged. The higher the expectation of excellence, the greater the detail that must be attended. The kingdom didn't fall when the king lost his head in battle. The kingdom fell when one blacksmith was one nail short of completing the re-shoeing the horse of one impatient knight.

Yes well said..... and interesting analogy...... i stay with my thought, though, that being "one nail short" as you say, in the quest for perfection in all areas.... just does not matter..... the polls exist so that people can craft their own stories, so that they can support a slant....

I still cannot think of a scenario when the polls matter at all in the grand scheme of things..... even in the tournament, if you are a #2 seed instead of a #1 seed, what does it matter..... you have to play everyone to win anyway....

Polls are important if you are TCU or Iowa football and you need to climb the polls in order to get slotted to battle for the top prize. For WCBB, it just does not matter.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Yes well said..... and interesting analogy. i stay with my thought, though, that being "one nail short" as you say, in the quest for perfection in all areas.... just does not matter..... the polls exist so that people can craft their own stories, so that they can support a slant....

I still cannot think of a scenario when the polls matter at all in the grand scheme of things..... even in the tournament, if you are a #2 seed instead of a #1 seed, what does it matter..... you have to play everyone to win anyway....

Polls are important if you are TCU or Iowa football and you need to climb the polls in order to get slotted to battle for the top prize. For WCBB, it just does not matter.

Thanks, Bayarea. And don't forget, this entire little brouhaha here is because people have chosen to focus on a detail as opposed to the purpose of my thread: the magnitude of UConn's success and just how difficult that has been to achieve. Whatever their shortcomings, polls are, and are acknowledged to be, one surrogate measure of success. Whether you are a #1 or #2 seed, the ultimate prize can only be secured by beating the six teams placed in front of you. But how did you get that #1 or #2 seed? A group of experts, the committee, got together and voted you that seed. In other words, they took a poll. Polls are imperfect and so is every other measure. Think the tournament is without flaw? Ask Baylor fans if the best team won Griner's senior year.

Want another measure of our success? How about the very fact that we can be so blase about the polls?