UConn is in great hands for next season

[Huskies Rule]

Tonyc said: "This seasons team is special and will be hard to duplicate." Absolutely yes, but it seems we feel that way every year (at least I do), like losing Stef and Bria last year. And as super important as which players are returning, who is graduating, and who has great recruits coming in, for all the top programs, I think THE determining factor in future National Championships which separates UConn from all the others but has not been mentioned is that WE HAVE GENO AURIEMMA and nobody else does. And that makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Buzzyboy]

ericsandiego- - - - I agree wholeheartedly! TN is going nowhere! They will never make another final 4 anytime soon! They have Holly "I'm lost in space" Warlick! How'd she coach 30 years with a legend and learn absolutely nothing? It'll be interesting to see how good a coach DD is!
It'll be like the 1960's Red Sox where they said 25 guys 25 cabs! TN will be 14 girls 14 basketballs!

I think Holly learned just about everything from Pat but what's happening now is that Pat's methodology is antiquated. She won so much because she was the face of women's basketball for many years and had such a decisive advantage in talent over everyone else. Then along came Geno and Muffett and they are now getting top level talent and are appreciably better Coaches than Pat Summitt. I'm not suggesting that Pat wasn't a good coach, but she was a far better recruiter than she was a coach and now that there are more coaches getting that top level talent, the advantages that Pat Summitt had over the years has gone away. After Parker left Tennessee, what has Tennessee done at all. They've been good but nothing close to dominating and how long has it been since they sniffed a Final Four. Continually underachieving and this happened before Pat left. They both don't seem to be able to put together a totally cohesive team, particularly on the offensive end. This is obviously MHO but I'm sticking with it.

 

[bballnut90]

I think Holly learned just about everything from Pat but what's happening now is that Pat's methodology is antiquated. She won so much because she was the face of women's basketball for many years and had such a decisive advantage in talent over everyone else. Then along came Geno and Muffett and they are now getting top level talent and are appreciably better Coaches than Pat Summitt. I'm not suggesting that Pat wasn't a good coach, but she was a far better recruiter than she was a coach and now that there are more coaches getting that top level talent, the advantages that Pat Summitt had over the years has gone away. After Parker left Tennessee, what has Tennessee done at all. They've been good but nothing close to dominating and how long has it been since they sniffed a Final Four. Continually underachieving and this happened before Pat left. They both don't seem to be able to put together a totally cohesive team, particularly on the offensive end. This is obviously MHO but I'm sticking with it.

Head to head during the Pat Summitt era, Tennessee was 20-2 against Notre Dame and Tennessee won the first 20. Summitt was an outstanding coach whose teams underachieved at the tail end of her career, but by and large were the epitome of consistency in women's basketball. Until her last graduating class, every single player she coached for 35 plus years played in a Final Four. That is remarkable. She was a fantastic recruiter, but she was an even better coach. I'll admit, McGraw's teams of late have better ball movement than any of Pat's teams, but Pat's teams were FAR superior defensively compared to any UND team and head to head Pat thoroughly dominated the series. Plus, 8 championships to 1 and you're arguing that McGeaw is an appreciable better coach than Pat? Gimme a break.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Head to head during the Pat Summitt era, Tennessee was 20-2 against Notre Dame and Tennessee won the first 20. Summitt was an outstanding coach whose teams underachieved at the tail end of her career, but by and large were the epitome of consistency in women's basketball. Until her last graduating class, every single player she coached for 35 plus years played in a Final Four. That is remarkable. She was a fantastic recruiter, but she was an even better coach. I'll admit, McGraw's teams of late have better ball movement than any of Pat's teams, but Pat's teams were FAR superior defensively compared to any UND team and head to head Pat thoroughly dominated the series. Plus, 8 championships to 1 and you're arguing that McGeaw is an appreciable better coach than Pat? Gimme a break.

If you think that your stats mean a lot, fine but what there was was a massive distinction between the type recruits the Vols and the Irish (and UConn) were getting. Pat Summit was getting the cream of the crop due to her "legendary" aura and it was that massive advantage in talented players that contributed to the disparity you mentioned. Inevitably that advantage was dwindling when more and more recruits realized that there were other quality programs available to them and Geno was a key element in that. Once UConn broke this aura of invincibility, it was easier to see that Pat wasn't this mystical coach and more programs have been able to get those type players, evening the playing field substantially. Pat was a really good defensive coach but her teams have never been nearly as good on the offensive end. Obviously she has had many talented players with great offensive skills but her offenses have always liked imagination. How many titles less would have Pat had if Notre Dame had gotten anywhere the talent level Pat had over the vast majority of her time in Tennessee and how many more would Muffet have had. We'll never know but I'm inclined to think it would be radically different than the numbers you noted. I feel Pat's numbers would have suffered dramatically.

 

[EricLA]

It's awfully hard to argue numbers of what if, and in a way I dislike doing that because there are so many sides to any story with regards to that.

Pat was a trailblazer and a leader in WCBB for many years and when she got the gig in 1975 when she was only 22, WCBB wasn't even a NCAA sanctioned sport. She didn't really start dominating till the late 80's winning her first NC in 1987. From '87 to '98, she won 6 NC's. That 11-12 year period really were her best years. Sure she won 2 more with Parker in '07 and '08, but her best decade was the 90's.

Tenn fans will argue that UCONN wins not because Geno is the best coach or develops his players the best, but because he's the best recruiter. Obviously I disagree since there are many many examples of kids who were rated 20 or lower who ended up being terrifically developed for UCONN and even went on to have solid pro careers.

But my point is, to agree with Buzz in one sense, Pat never really focused on offense. She had the best athletes, played the best defense, and swamped the O-boards. She realized, IMHO, her shortcomings, which is why she famously went to Harry P for advice on how to run motion offense, among other things.

I do agree that focusing almost exclusively on defense does not work any more. Rutgers and Tennessee are two great examples. It remains to be seen how Tennessee adjusts to the changes we've seen in WCBB. There were times Geno was slow to adjust (not recruiting kids till they were juniors in HS for example) and it cost him for a few years. Now we will see how well Tenn can build for the future and if they will be relevant at the top of WCBB any time soon...

 

[bballnut90]

If you think that your stats mean a lot, fine but what there was was a massive distinction between the type recruits the Vols and the Irish (and UConn) were getting. Pat Summit was getting the cream of the crop due to her "legendary" aura and it was that massive advantage in talented players that contributed to the disparity you mentioned. Inevitably that advantage was dwindling when more and more recruits realized that there were other quality programs available to them and Geno was a key element in that. Once UConn broke this aura of invincibility, it was easier to see that Pat wasn't this mystical coach and more programs have been able to get those type players, evening the playing field substantially. Pat was a really good defensive coach but her teams have never been nearly as good on the offensive end. Obviously she has had many talented players with great offensive skills but her offenses have always liked imagination. How many titles less would have Pat had if Notre Dame had gotten anywhere the talent level Pat had over the vast majority of her time in Tennessee and how many more would Muffet have had. We'll never know but I'm inclined to think it would be radically different than the numbers you noted. I feel Pat's numbers would have suffered dramatically.

Pat won the majority of her titles after UCONN became a major player in recruiting. Pat was a heck of a recruiter her entire time at Tennesse--even in her last year as a coach she hauled in two top 5 kids in 2011 and Isabelle Harrison. Had she stayed, there's a good chance she lands DeShields, Davis doesn't leave and she still brings in Russell giving her the top 3 recruits in 2013. Can you think of a championship that Geno won where he didn't have the most talented team in the country? The only one I think you can make an argument for is 2003, which still featured DT and the #1 freshman class in the nation. Every other title, Geno has had at least one-two HS POYs and several other top 5 recruits. There is a reason why the best programs land the best recruits. You can't claim recruiting is why Pat was so successful while for Geno it was his superior coaching ability. Two way street.

Muffett is an outstanding coach. Since landing Diggins, she has been able to bring in other top players, develop them, and turn Notre Dame into a national power. If she was landing this many talented kids from the early 90s until 2009, I think both Pat and Geno would have fewer titles. She is a great coach and has made Notre Dame into a consistent top 2-3 team for the last 5 years. No one else has done that in 20+ years outside of Pat and Geno. While what she has been doing has been great, Pat did this for 30+ years. She beat Notre Dame head to head 20 times in a row, won over 1000 games and has 8 championships to her credit, with 5 of them coming in the "UCONN era." Yes she has landed top recruits, but she landed top recruits because she built consistently great teams that were fixtures in the final four and consistent title threats year in and year out. Muffett has made ND a steady title threat for 5 years. Once she wins a few more and has Notre Dame as a top 5 fixture for 10-15+ years, then I'll reconsider this argument.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

No argument that Muffett has had a great run recently, but I've lost a lot of respect for her with all the whining and BS! Just shut up and coach, you don't demand respect from your peers, you earn respect from your peers! A lot of ND's success over UCONN previous to the last year & a 1/2 IMHO was UCONN lack of belief by the players they could win! Giving ND way too much credit! Once they shook that off they kicked ND's butt! The refs had a major hand in this by dominating the foul calls ND's way especially in the lane, that has evened out and UCONN's present mind-set is ND is an inferior team to them and they'll kick them all over the court! ND has 1 great player, Loyd and 1 good player, Turner, everyone else is average talent especially in the front line! Which will only get bigger with the addition of next years freshmen class! The bottom line is Geno & his great staff coaches rings around the Muffett and her staff! It's like Muffett's dueling without any bullets in her gun!

 

[NewCorn]

Oh I really want to focus on this year and sprinting through the finish line..... we should have what it takes. let's hope we play our best ball when it counts..... as is our custom.....

Yes, looking at next year..... we do lose a lot.... and thank you Kiah and KML for all your contributions..... I too feel good about who is coming in. Collier, Boykin, Samuelson, and Butler. come to think of it the coaching staff will have their hands full..... with 4 newbies.... but Natalie has been practicing all year this year so she knows the drill and has a year of Big East competition under her bely.

Handicapping the rest of the field..... I really like (after us of course) ND, USC, and Texas, because of roster as well as the commensurate coaching, and Tenn, so long as Mercedes can run on her repaired feet, and Diamond and Holly work well together.

I'm delighted to hear that Natalie is looking good. but I do hope she gets rid of that belly before next season. Lol.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I'm delighted to hear that Natalie is looking good. but I do hope she gets rid of that belly before next season. Lol.

Hah! I remember in Dec 2010 when we lost at Stanford, CD told then freshman Dolson, "I need you to be a beast in the weight room".... and the rest is history..... Natalie will be in shape.....

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

At the USF/Senior Day Game when teams lined up for National Anthem, I thought Natalie looked great! That was the thinnest I had seen her either on TV or in person! All reports are she's lost in the 25 to 30lbs. range and working her butt off both on the practice court and in the weight-room!

 

[OldAlum]

I think NewCorn was talking about the typo...

 

[NewCorn]

I think NewCorn was talking about the typo...

Yes, thanks. Hopefully Natalie has that year of Big East competition under her belt rather than under her belly.

 

[Icebear]

Yes, thanks. Hopefully Natalie has that year of Big East competition under her belt rather than under her belly.

Why do you make such a comment? I haven't heard of any such issues with Natalie. Seems like an unnecessary comment
.

 

[NewCorn]

Why do you make such a comment? I haven't heard of any such issues with Natalie. Seems like an unnecessary comment
.

Sorry I confused you, Icebear. I didn't make my original comment is quite the right place. I was trying to make a joke about a typ0 by an earlier poster who said, "...under her bely," instead of under her belt. I know, I'll never be a standup comedian.