UConn is a Blue Blood

[MexicoHusky]

The blue blood discussion is a bit pointless. Lists like this basically never change. Ask the American Film Institution what the 10 best movies of all time are. I suspect the list has barely budged in decades. The same is true for this basketball "blue blood" list. I'm not even sure I'd want to be on the list.

 

[jibsey]

The blue blood discussion is a bit pointless. Lists like this basically never change. Ask the American Film Institution what the 10 best movies of all time are. I suspect the list has barely budged in decades.

Why should it? Citizen Kane and Casablanca aren’t going anywhere.

 

[MexicoHusky]

Why should it? Citizen Kane and Casablanca aren’t going anywhere.

And nothing modern is going to supplant either.

 

[Zissou]

Having the Blue Blood convo without @Zissou doesn’t feel right. It’s his favorite.

I’ll weigh in!

UConn is in the same category as Duke. Call them blue bloods or new bloods, they should be judged in the same category.

In the Modern Era - UNC, Duke, UConn, Kansas, Louisville, Kentucky, and Villanova with 3 or more titles.

UConn doesn’t need this one for any cred, but as Nelson noted in the OP titles under 3 different coaches is rare air.

 

[Zissou]

From the Kentucky board lol

View attachment 85957

UK went after Jay Wright in 2009. Jay said no. They settled for the squid. I guess that supports Nova’s blue blood status.

 

[Zissou]

I would break the NCAA Tournament into the following eras:

1) Pre 1960 - Basketball was heavily segregated and the tournament was only 8 teams until the early 50's, then expanding to 22. The Tournament was heavily regionalized, so East played East, Midwest played Midwest, etc., until the Final 4. Also, the NIT was considered the more prestigious tournament to some schools so teams would occasionally choose the NIT over the NCAA. These championships basically don't count.

2) 1960-1974 - Integration came to college basketball, and the NCAA forbid teams to play in the NIT if they got an NCAA bid starting in 1970. There was still a "one team per conference" rule until 1975 and the NCAA Tournament was regional until the early 70's. This is how UCLA would play UC Santa Barbara and New Mexico State almost every year in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. These Championships get an asterisk.

3) 1975-1984 - Near modern era. Tournament was expanding (32 teams in 1975, 40 in 1979), and allowed multiple teams per conference. There were still byes and some other weird stuff (regional teams got seeding preference through 1978), but it was getting closer to the modern tournament format. These championships basically count.

4) 1985-Present -Modern era. 64 team tournament starting in 1985, Shot clock starting in 85-86 season, and 3 point shot started in the 1987 tournament (although some conferences had been using it for league games since 1980). Other than the haircuts and some conditioning, the game that was played in the late 80's had fundamentally the same rules as the game played today. These championships DEFINITELY count.

I like this thoughtful view of the eras.

I usually consider 1980 and forward the modern era.

It’s worth considering that we just closed an era. Maybe the Covid break year in 2020 is the border. Portal and NIL May justify the start of a new era.

 

[uconnfan68]

Yeah, I don’t buy into the arbitrary and capricious designations of NCAA sanctions and asterisks.

You can asterisk the entire John Wooden era.

Kentucky’s ‘48-‘51 titles.

UNC’s last 3 titles.

UConn has 2 titles surrounded by sanctions.

Throw all that BS out. Louisville won the game. Dirty yes, but the game happened.

Why * UCLA? They were the best team when they were winning.

 

[Zissou]

Why * UCLA? They were the best team when they were winning.

Sam Gilbert

 

[uconnfan68]

Sam Gilbert

Sam didn’t play a minute. Life was different then.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I’ll weigh in!

UConn is in the same category as Duke. Call them blue bloods or new bloods, they should be judged in the same category.

In the Modern Era - UNC, Duke, UConn, Kansas, Louisville, Kentucky, and Villanova with 3 or more titles.

UConn doesn’t need this one for any cred, but as Nelson noted in the OP titles under 3 different coaches is rare aiair

This is sorta my point. The top of the list never changes. Intstead we make up the 2nd tier list. But the top 5 (or whatever) never budges. The blue blood list is stupid.

For the record, i'm very content with Connecticut's resume on the national stage. No regrets whatsoever. Wouldn't want to trade with anyone. Even with the almost decade long drought.

@Zissou i would be content if were a Nova fan as well.

 

[Zissou]

This is sorta my point. The top of the list never changes. Intstead we make up the 2nd tier list. But the top 5 (or whatever) never budges. The blue blood list is stupid.

For the record, i'm very content with Connecticut's resume on the national stage. No regrets whatsoever. Wouldn't want to trade with anyone. Even with the almost decade long drought.

@Zissou i would be content if were a Nova fan as well.

I like the discussion. Most sports discussions are stupid, or unimportant to the greater issues of our times, but here we are in discussions because we love sports.

UCLA hoops is a bit like Yale football. It will always be in the record books but is less relevant today.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I like the discussion. Most sports discussions are stupid, or unimportant to the greater issues of our times, but here we are in discussions because we love sports.

UCLA hoops is a bit like Yale football. It will always be in the record books buts is less relevant today.

I don't mind it either I suppose. I came in a bit hot.

 

[Zissou]

Sam didn’t play a minute. Life was different then.

But that is why they have an asterisk like Louisville. It was off-the-court shenanigans in both cases.

UCLA and Sam Gilbert can be argued as more egregious. They provided cash, cars, and benefits for a clear recruiting advantage. It’s well known.

 

[Billy Jack]

You know that a program is a blue blood when their fan board isn’t discussing whether or not they’re a blue blood.

 

[Castlevania]

It came up because one of the reporters asked earlier, what it means to not have a number 1 seeds or blue bloods in the final four. And, he explained the transfer portal increased the parity of the college game. Then, someone asked, "since the blue bloods didn't make it to the final four, can you talk about the possibly of playing FAU for a national title."

Larranaga in an interview from yesterday: "University of Connecticut is certainly a blue blood. They've proven over the course of time, they've won national championships. They had a hall of fame coach in Jim Calhoun. Their history and tradition is great. And you got a guy like Danny Hurley, whose built that program in his image and likeness, he's a basketball lifer, comes from a basketball family, where his brother and dad are also coaches. Connecticut is a blue blood."

✂️ Larranaga says UCONN is a Blue Blood

 

[Windsorlocks]

Nuevo Blue…

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yeah, I don’t buy into the arbitrary and capricious designations of NCAA sanctions and asterisks.

You can asterisk the entire John Wooden era.

Kentucky’s ‘48-‘51 titles.

UNC’s last 3 titles.

UConn has 2 titles surrounded by sanctions.

Throw all that BS out. Louisville won the game. Dirty yes, but the game happened.

I don't either, I just like making fun of the outrageous lengths Pitino and his underlings went to recruit kids.

I will point out the sanctions against us that you pointed out (while conspicuously neglected to mention Nova's missteps) were somewhat ridiculous as we were basically punished for honesty as it pertained to APR (while UNC had classes that required neither attendance nor coursework).

 

[Zissou]

I don't either, I just like making fun of the outrageous lengths Pitino and his underlings went to recruit kids.

I will point out the sanctions against us that you pointed out (while conspicuously neglected to mention Nova's missteps) were somewhat ridiculous as we were basically punished for honesty as it pertained to APR (while UNC had classes that required neither attendance nor coursework).

I don’t know of Nova ever being sanctioned for recruiting violations.

That’s not to claim that Nova is pristine in any way. It has its blemishes.

If UNC doesn’t have an official asterisk for its last 3 titles, can any team seriously carry an asterisk? Speaking to recruits while shooting free throws seems pretty mild in comparison.

 

[Zissou]

We didn’t even mention Kansas. Also owning asterisks.

 

[jibsey]

I don’t know of Nova ever being sanctioned for recruiting violations.

That’s not to claim that Nova is pristine in any way. It has its blemishes.

If UNC doesn’t have an official asterisk for its last 3 titles, can any team seriously carry an asterisk? Speaking to recruits while shooting free throws seems pretty mild in comparison.

We were punished for Academics and and UNC wasn’t essentially. That plus Miles kick started our fall.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I don’t know of Nova ever being sanctioned for recruiting violations.

That’s not to claim that Nova is pristine in any way. It has its blemishes.

If UNC doesn’t have an official asterisk for its last 3 titles, can any team seriously carry an asterisk? Speaking to recruits while shooting free throws seems pretty mild in comparison.

Well, unlike us, Nova did vacate a final four appearance and if I remember correctly, both in the early 1990's and again, about a half dozen years later there were some impermissible benefits charges.

But, what little indiscretions come of us had pales in comparison to what schools like UK, UNC, Kansas and even Duke (who somehow gets everything swept under the rug) have done.

 

[Zissou]

Well, unlike us, Nova did vacate a final four appearance and if I remember correctly, both in the early 1990's and again, about a half dozen years later there were some impermissible benefits charges.

But, what little indiscretions come of us had pales in comparison to what schools like UK, UNC, Kansas and even Duke (who somehow gets everything swept under the rug) have done.

I think the two instances you are referring to are (1) 1971 Howard Porter engaging with an agent at the end of his year for the next steps to the NBA. Nova beat highly favored Penn in the NCAAs and advanced to the final game, losing to UCLA; (2) Kittles used an athletic dept phone card for an authorized call in his senior year, but kept the number and used it for personal unauthorized calls (remember phone cards!). Kittles was suspended for the BET when Nova self reported, and the team was a first round flame-out as a 3 seed vs Old Dominion when he returned.

Neither case was paying recruits to gain an unfair recruiting advantage.

It’s especially rich that 1971 Nova was vacated vs UCLA which was paying recruits and players and never vacated anything!

In my view UConn issues were all small potatoes vs Kansas and UNC - selective prosecution. Zion and Duke? Let’s not peek under those covers.

I just accept it’s an imperfect world and I don’t recognized the arbitrary official asterisks of the NCAA. We all know the issues with the programs whether or not the NCAA ruled on them. If UNC and UCLA skates then Louisville actually won that title.

 

[hoopsfan22]

We want a B1G bid.

Yep. Much rather be the eastern end of a northern conference with the likes of Penn St, Rutgers, and Maryland than the northern end of a decidedly southern one like the ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, and BC.

 

[upstater]

Interesting thing about these arguments are that the early BE teams had a lot of losses but almost no one uses that argument against them anymore. Georgetown's 1st FF team, Pearl Washington's Syracuse team, Villanova's national champions, many of these teams had 7, 8, 9 even 10 losses. Losing in the BE regular season was common for the most legendary BE teams. Only '85 St Johns and '85 Georgetown had 3 or 4 loss seasons.

 

[Billy Jack]

It came up because one of the reporters asked earlier, what it means to not have a number 1 seeds or blue bloods in the final four. And, he explained the transfer portal increased the parity of the college game. Then, someone asked, "since the blue bloods didn't make it to the final four, can you talk about the possibly of playing FAU for a national title."

Larranaga in an interview from yesterday: "University of Connecticut is certainly a blue blood. They've proven over the course of time, they've won national championships. They had a hall of fame coach in Jim Calhoun. Their history and tradition is great. And you got a guy like Danny Hurley, whose built that program in his image and likeness, he's a basketball lifer, comes from a basketball family, where his brother and dad are also coaches. Connecticut is a blue blood."

✂️ Larranaga says UCONN is a Blue Blood

Thank you. And I appreciate the context.

I think that the different perspectives exist because the term “blue blood” itself originated as a designation for the elite families of high society when such things existed. Typically it was used to refer to “old money” families. Often such families could trace their lineage back to colonial times, even to the Mayflower in some cases. The Bushes, for example, are such a family.

Following through with the analogy, programs like Kentucky, North Carolina, and Kansas would be true “blue bloods” because they are “old money” in the sense that they were competing for championships back in the 1940s, the era when championship play and true national competition first began. And those programs have continued to compete for championships in every decade since almost without missing a beat. (Kansas failed to make a Final Four in the 1960s and Kentucky missed the first decade of the 2000s.) With more than 2 decades having passed since their last Final Four, Indiana can be considered a blue blood which has fallen on hard times just as their are old, monied families who squandered their riches and were no longer among the “leading families”.

In contrast to these programs, we would be considered new money albeit a program which has been dominant in terms of winning national championships in the past quarter century.

It’s reall a silly and meaningless term and nothing to be concerned about. Anyone who can count knows who’s won the most national championships and when they won them. And as important, we all know has been to the most Final Fours and when they went to those Final Fours. This is the level of those programs who were competing for championships even if they fell short.