UConn in the NBA Jan '25

[Deleted at users request]

Fox isn’t ball dominant, he and Steph could coexist if it occurred. Don’t think Steph will ever be solely a PG anyways.

I disagree and I think he would too based on how he’s been moving.

CP3 is suppose to be mentoring him for the position. With the right development he can easily follow the SGA, Cade Cunningham archetype of PGs

 

[RuffRuff]

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I disagree and I think he would too based on how he’s been moving.

CP3 is suppose to be mentoring him for the position. With the right development he can easily follow the SGA, Cade Cunningham archetype of PGs

He’ll need to improve shot making substantially and his playmaking. Cade is elite tier playmaker and Shai is the best offensive scorer right now. Lets push the brakes a bit.

 

[Scoe]

Jackson vs Clingan on TNT tonight of course it has to start at 10.

 

[Deleted at users request]

He’ll need to improve shot making substantially and his playmaking. Cade is elite tier playmaker and Shai is the best offensive scorer right now. Lets push the brakes a bit.

Of course, he’s 20 though with NBA training.

Him and Shai had pretty similar rookie years, Steph slightly better actually.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

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Stephon Castle Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Stephon Castle. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

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If the organization keeps investing in him like they already are I’m pretty confident he can get to that level as a 6’6 jumbo PG like those other guys. Similar to Shai, he has one of the best floor generals OAT mentoring him too.

Bringing in Fox would for sure mess up that development plan though.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Of course, he’s 20 though with NBA training.

Him and Shai had pretty similar rookie years, Steph slightly better actually.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

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Stephon Castle Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Stephon Castle. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

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If the organization keeps investing in him like they already are I’m pretty confident he can get to that level as a 6’6 jumbo PG like those other guys. Similar to Shai, he has one of the best floor generals OAT mentoring him too.

Bringing in Fox would for sure mess up that development plan though.

Shai was immediately rather efficient, Steph is not that yet.

It isn’t teams sole jobs to develop a player, they want to win. Fox is an elite player who doesn’t demand the ball or the limelight, very good defender and playmaker. Steph isn’t a pure PG and may not be, which is fine. He has the ability to play PG but really shouldn’t pigeon-hole himself. If you have the opportunity to go get a player like Fox, who evidently really wants to play in SA, you do it in a heartbeat. We all love Steph, but let’s be realistic.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Shai was immediately rather efficient, Steph is not that yet.

It isn’t teams sole jobs to develop a player, they want to win. Fox is an elite player who doesn’t demand the ball or the limelight, very good defender and playmaker. Steph isn’t a pure PG and may not be, which is fine. He has the ability to play PG but really shouldn’t pigeon-hole himself. If you have the opportunity to go get a player like Fox, who evidently really wants to play in SA, you do it in a heartbeat. We all love Steph, but let’s be realistic.

Oh I for sure wouldn’t blame SA for doing it. I’d just be sad for Steph.

It’s also hard to imagine the Kings not asking for him in return as SA doesn’t have many other young attractive players.

What have you seen that makes you think Steph wouldn’t be a capable PG though? I don’t think it’s as much about pigeon-holeing himself as much as it’s about getting the most out of his ability.

He has a lot more potential as a 6’6 jumbo playmaking PG than as an off ball secondary playmaker. At one position he’s a mismatch with a size advantage, the other he’s a JAG.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Oh I for sure wouldn’t blame SA for doing it. I’d just be sad for Steph.

It’s also hard to imagine the Kings not asking for him in return as SA doesn’t have many other young attractive players.

What have you seen that makes you think Steph wouldn’t be a capable PG though? I don’t think it’s as much about pigeon-holeing himself as much as it’s about getting the most out of his ability.

He has a lot more potential as a 6’6 jumbo playmaking PG than as an off ball secondary playmaker. At one position he’s a mismatch with a size advantage, the other he’s a JAG.

I didn’t say he wasn’t capable, I said he may not become a pure PG. I think its best for his development right now to share on and off ball responsibilities either way, as he is a bad shooter and really needs to work on that.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I didn’t say he wasn’t capable, I said he may not become a pure PG. I think its best for his development right now to share on and off ball responsibilities either way, as he is a bad shooter and really needs to work on that.

Eh, players like Fox, SGA, and more were bad shooters coming into the league too. They offset it by being elite at getting to the rim and in the midrange. They also didn’t take many 3s to make it a big deal.

Rookie Year 3PA per game:
SGA 1.7
Fox 2.1
Castle 3.8

Amen Thompson is breaking out this year on 1.3 attempts a game. Steph shouldn’t feel this much pressure to become a good shooter this early in his career when there’s other things he’s very good at he can lean into.

I agree the Spurs did it the right way by having him share duties at first with CP3. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start to take over more by next year if the roster stays as is though. They’re already ramping him up for it.

But again, Fox coming changes it from Steph being groomed to be the franchise PG (like he intentionally asked to be during the draft process) to fitting him next to Fox. If he’s not involved in the trade itself.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Looking into this more and it’s kind of crazy the percentage of shots Steph takes from 3s that is unnecessary. I didn’t know it was this bad.

He takes 35% of all his shots from 3.

SGA in his career has never had a season where he shot above 30%

Fox last two years have been the only times he has at 37% and 31% (and both he and his team regressed these years)

Amen is shooting 14% of his shots from 3.

Whoever is telling him he needs to take that many 3s is giving him bad advice.

 

[Deleted at users request]

No Clingan is crazy. Also having G Leaguers involved is doing the most.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Looking into this more and it’s kind of crazy the percentage of shots Steph takes from 3s that is unnecessary. I didn’t know it was this bad.

He takes 35% of all his shots from 3.

SGA in his career has never had a season where he shot above 30%

Fox last two years have been the only times he has at 37% and 31% (and both he and his team regressed these years)

Amen is shooting 14% of his shots from 3.

Whoever is telling him he needs to take that many 3s is giving him bad advice.

He needs to take 3s in game to get reps because that is by far his weakest point. You only improve so much in practice. He shot great at the combine, it’s obviously an in game issue.

 

[RuffRuff]

 

[Deleted at users request]

He needs to take 3s in game to get reps because that is by far his weakest point. You only improve so much in practice. He shot great at the combine, it’s obviously an in game issue.

The point is, who cares. You can be a great offensive player without being a 3 point shooter and there’s plenty of examples of it.

Like those guys I just named, he can be stepping in a few feet and take much easier shots. A shot he was actually good at in HS.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The point is, who cares. You can be a great offensive player without being a 3 point shooter and there’s plenty of examples of it.

Like those guys I just named, he can be stepping in a few feet and take much easier shots. A shot he was actually good at in HS.

Uh, lots of people care. Coaches, analytics, teams in general. You named some of the elite players in the league. Comparing to Fox and Shai is way different then Amen as well, very different prototypes.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Uh, lots of people care. Coaches, analytics, teams in general. You named some of the elite players in the league. Comparing to Fox and Shai is way different then Amen as well, very different prototypes.

The point was to show how people are successful across different archetypes without it. Prioritizing a 3 point shot is overrated and there’s a good amount of data starting to support that.

But analytics people won’t highlight it because it hurts the very formula they’ve been pushing. I’m not sure there’s any players who have necessarily become better or had better team success by going out of their way to add a 3 point shot to their game. I can give you examples of guys who it has seemed to hurt personal and team success by doing it.

Can also show you a growing list of players finding personal and team success without it. Particularly another overachieving team this year in the Rockets.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The point was to show how people are successful across different archetypes without it. Prioritizing a 3 point shot is overrated and there’s a good amount of data starting to support that.

But analytics people won’t highlight it because it hurts the very formula they’ve been pushing. I’m not sure there’s any players who have necessarily become better or had better team success by going out of their way to add a 3 point shot to their game. I can give you examples of guys who it has seemed to hurt personal and team success by doing it.

Can also show you a growing list of players finding personal and team success without it. Particularly another overachieving team this year in the Rockets.

Can show you a much longer list of guys who can shoot. Prioritizing it should be his goal, it’s the weakest part of his game. Players try to improve their weaknesses.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Can show you a much longer list of guys who can shoot. Prioritizing it should be his goal, it’s the weakest part of his game. Players try to improve their weaknesses.

Who are these guys who improved their game and helped their team by emphasizing 3 point shooting? I’d like to see this list.

If you can shoot, that’s great. But if you can’t shoot but do other things well, you shouldn’t go out your way to prove you can shoot. You’re better off leaning into what you’re good at. Especially when you’re so young.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Can show you a much longer list of guys who can shoot. Prioritizing it should be his goal, it’s the weakest part of his game. Players try to improve their weaknesses.

Also my last point on Steph’s development.

Focusing on getting a 50% 8’-16’ jumper and post game similar to the SGA’s and Cade’s that’ll help him take advantage of his size would be way more helpful than launching 3s to try and become a 30-35% shooter that does not utilize his physical talent and competitive advantage.

If he ends up a PG, he will be the biggest one in the NBA physically both height and weight wise. He should work on things that’ll help him take advantage of that.

 

[aceboon]

AJ just passed out of an alley-oop to a shooter at the 3point line in the corner behind him. Impressive display of athleticism/creativity, but dude dunk the damn ball. Bucks ended up getting a Giannis layup out of the possession but I will never understand him passing out of clear dunks/layups

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Who are these guys who improved their game and helped their team by emphasizing 3 point shooting? I’d like to see this list.

If you can shoot, that’s great. But if you can’t shoot but do other things well, you shouldn’t go out your way to prove you can shoot. You’re better off leaning into what you’re good at. Especially when you’re so young.

This is an archaic way of thinking. Virtually every player is better when they improve their outside shooting lol. Keeps the defense honest and they actually have to play you on the perimeter. It’s evident even with the Spurs. The Bucks threw Lopez on him because Steph isn’t a shooter and they clogged the paint. Teams did this against us last year with Steph. This isn’t rocket science.

 

[Chin Diesel]

AJ just passed out of an alley-oop to a shooter at the 3point line in the corner behind him. Impressive display of athleticism/creativity, but dude dunk the damn ball. Bucks ended up getting a Giannis layup out of the possession but I will never understand him passing out of clear dunks/layups

Hopefully he doesn't do that in the dunk contest. That would be super weird.

 

[Deleted at users request]

This is an archaic way of thinking. Virtually every player is better when they improve their outside shooting lol. Keeps the defense honest and they actually have to play you on the perimeter. It’s evident even with the Spurs. The Bucks threw Lopez on him because Steph isn’t a shooter and they clogged the paint. Teams did this against us last year with Steph. This isn’t rocket science.

It’s a luxury. I’ve already gave you examples of players who can’t shoot and excelled/are currently breaking out.

Fox and Ant are also examples of star players that once they went on their 3 point shooting journey has hurt both their individual and team success. Both went from 2 seeds and being All-NBA to the Kings not making the playoffs since and the Wolves currently being in the play in. 3 point shooting is overrated and overvalued.

Steph also had 22 and 15 in the Final Four. It did not stop him from being a great efficient scorer when it mattered lol.

Meanwhile I’m not sure if you can give examples of guys who have elevated their games and teams by adding and emphasizing 3 point shooting.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It’s a luxury. I’ve already gave you examples of players who can’t shoot and excelled/are currently breaking out.

Fox and Ant are also examples of star players that once they went on their 3 point shooting journey has hurt both their individual and team success. Both went from 2 seeds and being All-NBA to the Kings not making the playoffs since and the Wolves currently being in the play in. 3 point shooting is overrated and overvalued.

Steph also had 22 and 15 in the Final Four. It did not stop him from being a great efficient scorer when it mattered lol.

Meanwhile I’m not sure if you can give examples of guys who have elevated their games and teams by adding and emphasizing 3 point shooting.

Well Ant is a better player because he is a better shooter now, so that’s an odd example. The TWolves are worse because thay made a bad trade.

Fox and Shai have gradually improved their outside shot. Jrue Holiday has extended his career and is a better player, Derrick White made the USA Team and is a much better player because of his shot. Darius Garland, Jalen Brunson, DiVincenzo, Jerami Grant, I mean even LeBron lol. Not to mention all the bigs who have extended their careers by adding an outside shot like Brook Lopez, Al Horford, etc.

The Celtics were the best team in the league last year and won the Championship and they CHUCKED 3s…

Like, I could listen dozens more, IDK what your argument is here.

 

[Deleted at users request]

AJ just passed out of an alley-oop to a shooter at the 3point line in the corner behind him. Impressive display of athleticism/creativity, but dude dunk the damn ball. Bucks ended up getting a Giannis layup out of the possession but I will never understand him passing out of clear dunks/layups

He’s so unselfish that it can be considered selfish.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Well Ant is a better player because he is a better shooter now, so that’s an odd example. The TWolves are worse because thay made a bad trade.

Fox and Shai have gradually improved their outside shot. Jrue Holiday has extended his career and is a better player, Derrick White made the USA Team and is a much better player because of his shot. Darius Garland, Jalen Brunson, DiVincenzo, Jerami Grant, I mean even LeBron lol. Not to mention all the bigs who have extended their careers by adding an outside shot like Brook Lopez, Al Horford, etc. Like, I could listen dozens more, IDK what your argument is here.

Ant was All-NBA 2nd team last year. Let’s see if he gets it this year. He’s shooting almost 50% of all his shots from 3 this year (yuck).

Already explained how it hurt Fox and Shai isn’t leaning into it like the former two.

Everyone else you named are role players except Brunson and Lebron who combined hit that 35% of attempts mark that Steph is at once in their careers.

I’m talking about things Steph needs to do to develop into a star. Not extend his career as a role player. He can do that later. Right now there’s no reason for 35% of his attempts to be from 3 as someone who is not a good 3 point shooter.

He's better off mastering something he can be elite at, not focusing on things that he’s going to be feasible at.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Ant was All-NBA 2nd team last year. Let’s see if he gets it this year. He’s shooting almost 50% of all his shots from 3 this year (yuck).

Already explained how it hurt Fox and Shai isn’t leaning into it like the former two.

Everyone else you named are role players except Brunson and Lebron who combined hit that 35% of attempts mark that Steph is at once in their careers.

I’m talking about things Steph needs to do to develop into a star. Not extend his career as a role player. He can do that later. Right now there’s no reason for 35% of his attempts to be from 3 as someone who is not a good 3 point shooter.

He's better off mastering something he can be elite at, not focusing on things that he’s going to be feasible at.

They need him to shoot 3s. They need everyone to be able to space the floor so teams can’t fully key on Wemby. This is why he and Sochan literally never play together, because they both are not shooters at this point. They are definitely 2 of the teams top-5 players, but they cannot be on the floor together. The best teams in the league, ones that win championships, incorporate a ton of 5 out offense. Again, I agree he shouldn’t be taking so many 3s at this point, but he will NEED to be a competent shooter to take his game to higher levels. I can’t spell it out anymore, analytics support it, recent Champion history supports it, it’s as simple as that.

 

[superjohn]

Clingan has been awesome in the 4th quarter. He only played 4 minutes all game until the 4th. He's just so damn good on defense and the passing and rebounding is great.

 

[aceboon]

 

[Deleted at users request]

They need him to shoot 3s. They need everyone to be able to space the floor so teams can’t fully key on Wemby. This is why he and Sochan literally never play together, because they both are not shooters at this point. They are definitely 2 of the teams top-5 players, but they cannot be on the floor together. The best teams in the league, ones that win championships, incorporate a ton of 5 out offense. Again, I agree he shouldn’t be taking so many 3s at this point, but he will NEED to be a competent shooter to take his game to higher levels. I can’t spell it out anymore, analytics support it, recent Champion history supports it, it’s as simple as that.

Spacing the floor does not mean shooting 3s. The old spurs had some of the best floor spacing ever with Tony Parker.

It’s a very lazy way of spacing the floor and telling guys they’ll be fine as long as they can shoot 3s is a lazy way of development that involves no actual basketball knowledge.

Yes, Steph needs to becomes a competent 3 point shooter at some point. But it’s frustrating to see that’s so much of his focus and not other things that can help him elevate his game more and play to his strengths.

We’ll agree to disagree but I have high expectations for Steph’s career and hope he gets developed correctly to be another great alum for us.