Uconn hits a low GSR rate of 8% - national average @ 70

[OklahomaUconn]

Remember the retroactive punishment for our apr? Could the ncaa make up some new rule now for this?
http://touch.courant.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77914234/

 

[caw]

For fs sake that's data from a decade ago.

 

[M_Funkhauser43!]

"In figures released by the NCAA on Thursday, UConn scored an 8 percent graduation success rate for players who entered school between 2003 and 2006 — far below the national average of 74 percent in the sport. This period involves 12 players, only one of whom graduated."

How many guys who entered UConn in those years are earning less than six figures playing pro basketball?

 

[3uconn]

Our numbers are much lower than average due to us having players leave for the NBA.

 

[Gurleyman]

We had more than 12 come in during those years - looks like they ignore transfers:

2003 - MW, Boone, CV
2004 - Rudy, AJ,
2005 - JA, Austrie, Garrison
2006 - Edwards, Eaves, Wiggins, Kelly, Sticks, Mandeldove, Thabeet, Dyson

Five guys left early (MW, Boone, CV, Rudy Thabeet), two were not here 8 semesters (Price, Sticks), and two made it to the NBA (Dyson, Adrien). That leaves Austrie (I think he graduated), Mandeldove (flameout), and Edwards (barely short).

Four transferred which leads me to believe that's the subset that doesn't count (Garrison, Eaves, Wiggins, Kelly).

 

[upstater]

Folks, learn what GSR is. It has nothing to do with leaving early.
Everyone who leaves early for the pros is exempt. Out of the calculation. Everyone who transfers out is exempt.
GSR, like APR, is a cocked up measure that tells us next to nothing.
The only thing it measures is whether a player stayed at Uconn for 4 years and somehow managed to not graduate.

Thinks about a school like Kentucky. it's theoretically possible for them to have a 100% GSR, with only a 7% graduation rate. If 12 players are exempt because they leave for the pros, and only 1 graduates, their GSR is 100%.

I looked at USF last year and saw this huge huge discrepancy. Despite having 0% graduation in their federal rate (which is an apples to apples comparison with the general population) they somehow achieved a 88% GSR. So, how can you get a GSR with a 0% federal rate? By having one transfer-in graduate, while all the others are exempt for transfering out.

It's a joke.

Why do we take statistics seriously if we don't know the criteria?

 

[Gurleyman]

Folks, learn what GSR is. It has nothing to do with leaving early.
Everyone who leaves early for the pros is exempt. Out of the calculation. Everyone who transfers out is exempt.

We don't have 12 incoming freshmen in those four years who meet those criteria - not even close (it'd be 5-7 depending on whether brain surgery/personal leave are acceptable waivers). So they are counting somebody.

 

[upstater]

We don't have 12 incoming freshmen in those four years who meet those criteria - not even close (it'd be 5-7 depending on whether brain surgery/personal leave are acceptable waivers). So they are counting somebody.

They are counting kids who stayed but didn't graduate in 4 years.

Boone, AJ, Austrie, Edwards, Robinson, Mandeldove, Dyson.
7 players.

But you left out Ed Nelson I noticed. He would be 8. Any other transfers in?

As for Marcus Williams, I believe he redshirted, no? We don't know Wiggins or Garrison's status. There's that thing about transferring to a 4 year institution. I forget where he went.

At the end of the day, I don't know how these guys were counted. I do know that GSR exempts transfers and those who leave early for the pros. This is why Kentucky is going to have a good GSR.

 

[upstater]

In case anyone doesn't believe me, check out the University of South Florida men's bball here:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/newmedia/public/rates/index.html

Look at 2005 and 2006 GSRs.

GSRs of 88% and 100%.

Now, look to the right at the official federal number: 0% graduated.

In 2004, UConn had a GSR of 25%. Federal number of actual graduates? 8%.

 

[huskymedic]

They are counting kids who stayed but didn't graduate in 4 years.

Boone, AJ, Austrie, Edwards, Robinson, Mandeldove, Dyson.
7 players.

But you left out Ed Nelson I noticed. He would be 8. Any other transfers in?

As for Marcus Williams, I believe he redshirted, no? We don't know Wiggins or Garrison's status. There's that thing about transferring to a 4 year institution. I forget where he went.

At the end of the day, I don't know how these guys were counted. I do know that GSR exempts transfers and those who leave early for the pros. This is why Kentucky is going to have a good GSR.

I believe it's graduated in 6 years - not 4 years.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/sdsu/genrel/auto_pdf/what-is-grad-success-rate.pdf

 

[stamfordhusky]

Our numbers are much lower than average due to us having players leave for the NBA.

Not exactly. Players who leave for the NBA while in good academic standing are not counted against a team. UConn numbers are low because the players who left for the NBA did so while in bad academic standing.

 

[TheRogers]

My pet peeve is that at the time when the kids worked hard to get a 1000 APR, That lazy excuse of a sports beat writer FROM THE COURANT decides to talk about the 8% GSR. For Christ sake what does the home team have to do to enjoy their success. Smh

 

[stamfordhusky]

I believe it's graduated in 6 years - not 4 years.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/sdsu/genrel/auto_pdf/what-is-grad-success-rate.pdf

Correct. They give players six years to graduate in the formula.

 

[freescooter]

We had more than 12 come in during those years - looks like they ignore transfers:

2003 - MW, Boone, CV
2004 - Rudy, AJ,
2005 - JA, Austrie, Garrison
2006 - Edwards, Eaves, Wiggins, Kelly, Sticks, Mandeldove, Thabeet, Dyson

Five guys left early (MW, Boone, CV, Rudy Thabeet), two were not here 8 semesters (Price, Sticks), and two made it to the NBA (Dyson, Adrien). That leaves Austrie (I think he graduated), Mandeldove (flameout), and Edwards (barely short).

Four transferred which leads me to believe that's the subset that doesn't count (Garrison, Eaves, Wiggins, Kelly).

Transfers don't count as long as they leave in good standing. They can count, under this system, for the new school. Under the federal grad rate they do not. So a guy like Nelson, if he came in with 3 others at Georgia Tech, and transferred to UConn, under the federal rate GT can at best only have a 75% grad rate for that year. Under the NCAA system they could potentially have 100% if the 3 remaining players graduated since Nelson doesn't count. Likewise, if he joined 3 UConn players in the same class and graduated from UConn while 2 of the other 3 went to the NBA and the other graduated, UConn's GSR =2/2=100%, but the federal rate would be 1/3 or 33%. Nelson doesn't count for UConn but he counts against GT.

for what its worth, I thought both Austrie and Dyson graduated. In any case, however you count this, it is pretty bad. More evidence that during this period, UConn really abandoned any pretense that its basketball program was anything more than an NBA farm team.

edit: corrected the GSR in my example)

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Who cares. The data is almost a decade old and those who criticize the 8% number are assuming that a college degree actually has immediate value to a kid planning to play professional basketball for the first 10-15 years after college.

During the period in question, the guys who stayed 4 years were almost all considered borderline NBA players. If they decided to drop their final few classes after their eligibility was used up to get ready for the pre-draft workouts (a far more important "job interview" than any other college senior is going to have) and left school a few classes short of a diploma, you know what I'd call that? A smart financial decision.

 

[SubbaBub]

Is their anyone who can do the math accurately? The article suggests 1 of 12 kids graduated but most of the remaining left to pursue pro basketball.

I'd like an accounting, at least to recognize the guy who graduated.

 

[tcf15]

Pretty sure it's Ed Neslon who graduated.

 

[tcf15]

http://adimeback.com/uconns-8-percent-graduation-rate-means-nothing/

 

[upstater]

http://adimeback.com/uconns-8-percent-graduation-rate-means-nothing/

I don't think this is a good article for all the reasons I stated above. What are we measuring here? How can a school have a 100% GSR and a 0% federal graduation rate?

Unless you are trying to downplay the importance of graduating players, then the GSR is a worthless measure of anything.

 

[CTGoonie]

Why do we take statistics seriously if we don't know the criteria?

Because 86% of statistics are completely made up and it takes less brainpower to not read the fine print.

 

[uconnfan68]

"In figures released by the NCAA on Thursday, UConn scored an 8 percent graduation success rate for players who entered school between 2003 and 2006 — far below the national average of 74 percent in the sport. This period involves 12 players, only one of whom graduated."

How many guys who entered UConn in those years are earning less than six figures playing pro basketball?

Finish the quote... MOST OF THEM PLAYING PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL. Joe Zone, Dom Amore, CBS/ch3, Hartford Courant, and God knows how many others really frosted me with that stupid sensationalized headline. And a BS line by Mark Emmert of all people pretending schools are doing better. What is Kentucky's grad rate over the past 4 years? For anyone to pretend that UConn did wrong by these guys is sadly mistaken. They were all happy they are playing basketball for a living, if only for a few years. What the NCAA needs to do is to make sure these guys get to finish their degree WHEN THEY WANT TO, STILL ON SCHOLARSHIP that doesn't count against the school or teams. The NCAA makes a lot of money off college basketball... time to pay it back.

 

[uconnfan68]

Pretty sure it's Ed Neslon who graduated.

Didn't Emeka graduate in 3 years in 2004?

oops, my bad, the story was about who entered between 2003-2006.

 

[freescooter]

I don't think this is a good article for all the reasons I stated above. What are we measuring here? How can a school have a 100% GSR and a 0% federal graduation rate?

Unless you are trying to downplay the importance of graduating players, then the GSR is a worthless measure of anything.

First off, downplaying the importance of graduating players is EXACTLY what the GSR is designed to do. It exempts not only players who leave to play in the NBA but also guys who leave to play in the NBADL, Europe, Turkey, China,Greece and if you started a league that you called a pro league and paid guys 10 bucks a game to play half court in your driveway, guys who left and signed to play there would likely be exempted too. It also exempts players who transfer in good standing regardless of what happens to them at their new schools.

Secondly, it is pretty easy to get 0% from the Federal rate and 100% from the GSR because they really measure different things. One (the federal) looks at an incoming class and measures what percentage of that class has completed its degree at that school in 6 years. So if you bring in 4 freshmen in a given year and 1 transfers and 3 leave early to play pro ball, your Fed rate is 0. If you bring in a transfer to replace one of the people who left, and that person graduates, your GSR would be 100% since the GSR gives credit for the new player but doesn't count either the one who left (assuming he was not a flunk-out) or the 3 who are playing in the pros. There are some things in the GSR that make sense, like giving credit for transfers who graduate. If the goal, as the NCAA alleges is to graduate players, it makes sense that players who transfer in be counted as graduates. On the other hand, the rest of it is nonsense designed not to embarrass the NCAA and the schools too much and to pretend that everyone is doing a great job to make education a priority.

 

[ctchamps]

Finish the quote... MOST OF THEM PLAYING PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL. Joe Zone, Dom Amore, CBS/ch3, Hartford Courant, and God knows how many others really frosted me with that stupid sensationalized headline. And a BS line by Mark Emmert of all people pretending schools are doing better. What is Kentucky's grad rate over the past 4 years? For anyone to pretend that UConn did wrong by these guys is sadly mistaken. They were all happy they are playing basketball for a living, if only for a few years. What the NCAA needs to do is to make sure these guys get to finish their degree WHEN THEY WANT TO, STILL ON SCHOLARSHIP that doesn't count against the school or teams. The NCAA makes a lot of money off college basketball... time to pay it back.

I'm dealing with it for two reason! First the entire process is a sham that sooner or later will be evident to the masses!
Second. UConn has changed its ways and will be a highlight story going forward. JC will take a hit from guys like freescooter but I could give 2 feces what people like him think. The reason is that JC knows the things is a farce and he isn't concerned. If the University has gotten past the dark cloud, (except football and that will change with a good hire) and JC is not concerned, then why should any of us get upset.

I expect going forward, a number of reasonable sports journalists will write about the farce, and then the wannabe journalists that you mentioned will follow the trend and JC will be proven to have unjustly been vilified.

 

[freescooter]

Finish the quote... MOST OF THEM PLAYING PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL. Joe Zone, Dom Amore, CBS/ch3, Hartford Courant, and God knows how many others really frosted me with that stupid sensationalized headline. And a BS line by Mark Emmert of all people pretending schools are doing better. What is Kentucky's grad rate over the past 4 years? For anyone to pretend that UConn did wrong by these guys is sadly mistaken. They were all happy they are playing basketball for a living, if only for a few years. What the NCAA needs to do is to make sure these guys get to finish their degree WHEN THEY WANT TO, STILL ON SCHOLARSHIP that doesn't count against the school or teams. The NCAA makes a lot of money off college basketball... time to pay it back.

Here's the disconnect, uconn68. There is no reason on this earth why a player needs to enroll in college to play in the NBA...certainly not to play in the Turkish league.They are free to leave to pursue their dreams that way but when 92% of them do that, it raises questions as to whether there was anything but the most tenuous connection between the program and the school. During this period pretty much all UConn did was give them a place to play basketball and buy them uniforms, not provide an education. they could have gotten the same thing at the local Y, albiet with lesser quality coaching. As to the NCAA allowing guys to finish when they want to and still on scholarship, huh? I wouldn't have a problem with giving players who fiisih their eligibility a scholarship for an extra year, say a 5th year for hoops or a 6th for football, maybe, but I'm not sure that a guy who signs a multi-million dollar contract with the Milwaukee Bucks needs to have a scholarship guaranteed for him if he wants to return to UConn in 10 years.